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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:30 PM Original message |
The "better than nothing" crowd doesn't seem to get how it actually works |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:31 PM Response to Original message |
1. Yah! Fucking piece of shit Al Gore. |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:33 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Is that supposed to be some sort of argument? |
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cherokeeprogressive (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 10:57 PM Response to Reply #2 |
25. You might as well be demanding a pony. n/t |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 03:59 AM Response to Reply #2 |
32. Considering the source it's a fucking treatise. |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:34 PM Response to Original message |
3. We don't have to CHOOSE to settle for nothing until the next generation - that's our choice. n/t |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:38 PM Response to Reply #3 |
5. As if our choice matters. 80% of America supports public option. A majority support single payer.. |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:44 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. In your OP, you make the case that we accomplish something but not enough. If we can do it once |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:50 PM Response to Reply #7 |
12. That's not how it works. |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 10:01 PM Response to Reply #12 |
19. Except the "weak" bill may have enough support to pass, and when you try to add more, you lose peopl |
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sisters6 (351 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 07:10 AM Response to Reply #19 |
34. Obama should have been BOLD and demanded single payer from the start. Instead |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 10:52 AM Response to Reply #34 |
43. Lots of non-single payer systems out there that work well. SP is not the only (nor the best) option. |
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Vincardog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 01:56 PM Response to Reply #43 |
55. IMO SP is the only (and the best) option to fix our current dismal health delivery system. |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 02:14 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. Germany's costs are lower than France's. Not SP but universal coverage. Please do the remaining r |
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Astrad (374 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 05:53 PM Response to Reply #56 |
58. I think you're splitting hairs |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 06:33 PM Response to Reply #58 |
60. I agree that there are various ways to improve the US system, including options other than SP -which |
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Indenturedebtor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 11:08 PM Response to Reply #7 |
26. History disagrees with you. The OP is right |
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BklnDem75 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 12:25 AM Response to Reply #26 |
29. Which history are you referring to? |
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Indenturedebtor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 07:33 PM Response to Reply #29 |
63. FMLA, DADT, etc. Half measures with gaping loopholes |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:35 PM Response to Original message |
4. Thank you for sharing that idea |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:39 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. And by doing so rejected historical reality. |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:46 PM Response to Reply #6 |
9. You know where I stand |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:50 PM Response to Reply #9 |
13. I do. Without any historical evidence base. |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:53 PM Response to Reply #13 |
15. I can't think of any recent political fights in which |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:59 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. I can't think of a near term example in which spineless democrats have ever triedea |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 10:03 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. So give me one in which Republican failure to pass a major bill resulted in a stronger law. |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 10:16 PM Response to Reply #20 |
22. This is a bait and switch. |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 10:43 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. It's not a bait-and-switch, and it is certainly a counter-argument. |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 11:31 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. I have to admit right up front I don't have time to read all of that now. |
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stevenleser (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 11:51 PM Response to Reply #24 |
28. That is very well said. |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-29-09 04:18 PM Response to Reply #24 |
75. Wanted to get back to this. |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:45 PM Response to Original message |
8. Good Post |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:47 PM Response to Original message |
10. Sure. And demanding more than "better than nothing" can give us nothing for a generation. |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:49 PM Response to Reply #10 |
11. No, one of the first principles of bargaining is to ask for more than you |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:51 PM Response to Reply #11 |
14. Obviously so. That's why, on every issue so far, Dems have proposed versions of bills |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:54 PM Response to Reply #10 |
16. That's also not how it works. |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 09:58 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. The earnest naivety just drips off your posts. |
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Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 10:08 PM Response to Reply #17 |
21. Well I do this for a living. |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-27-09 10:21 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. It's fine if you think that there are second acts in politics, |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 01:31 AM Response to Original message |
30. If you want a kitten, you need to ask for a pony |
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Faryn Balyncd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 02:31 AM Response to Original message |
31. K&R - Imagine if, in 1965 instead of Medicare we had mandated that elderly buy private insurance..: |
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Senator (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 06:51 AM Response to Original message |
33. But more importantly -- to them -- there's no electoral payoff for Obama/Dems |
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sisters6 (351 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 07:13 AM Response to Original message |
35. Your post reminds me that we settled for DADT. Look at where |
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SemiCharmedQuark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 07:24 AM Response to Original message |
36. Can you give an example where by torpedoing a "good enough" bill we got a great bill quickly? |
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lunatica (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 08:57 AM Response to Original message |
37. Admittedly I'm confused. When did we ever get anything more by voting it down |
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Faryn Balyncd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 10:47 AM Response to Reply #37 |
42. Your analogy about war funding seems to support the OPPOSITE of your presumed INTENT - - - : |
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cornermouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 09:14 AM Response to Original message |
38. k & r. |
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rasputin1952 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 09:58 AM Response to Original message |
39. Anyone who has followed political history knows that everything |
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lunatica (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 10:31 AM Response to Reply #39 |
40. I agree with you on everything except the war on overt attacks |
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rasputin1952 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 11:59 AM Response to Reply #40 |
45. All of those took relatively longer than entering WW's I & II... |
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cornermouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 10:37 AM Response to Reply #39 |
41. Then I guess Congress had better get busy |
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rasputin1952 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 12:03 PM Response to Reply #41 |
46. The D's won't, and the R's recapturing either House are pretty slim |
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cornermouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 12:21 PM Response to Reply #46 |
48. I've been watching and the GOP is working hard to regroup. |
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cornermouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 01:45 PM Response to Reply #46 |
52. One other thing that you might or might not want to factor in. |
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rasputin1952 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 08:12 PM Response to Reply #52 |
67. First and foremost...I truly hope that your child gets the care he needs and deserves, |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 10:56 AM Response to Original message |
44. K & R nt |
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WeDidIt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 12:19 PM Response to Original message |
47. Nothing is better than no immediate robust public option |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 12:52 PM Response to Original message |
49. It isn't "next to nothing". Your ignorance is pathetic. |
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jefferson_dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 12:55 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. +1 |
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johnaries (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 01:44 PM Response to Original message |
51. Actually, if you look at the history politics |
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omega minimo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 01:49 PM Response to Original message |
53. It's "not worked" that way for decades now. That's why we have corporate government. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
54. FMLA is an excellent example |
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quakerboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 03:37 PM Response to Original message |
57. +1 |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 06:15 PM Response to Original message |
59. thanks, but I get it just fine.... |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 06:43 PM Response to Original message |
61. Yeah, it was better to have no health care reform whatsoever in 1994. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 07:39 PM Response to Reply #61 |
64. We DID get some piecemeal health care reform in Clinton's 1st term |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 08:08 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. The nonsense never ceases. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 08:41 PM Response to Reply #66 |
68. Careful now |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 09:23 PM Response to Reply #68 |
70. You are proving my point. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 09:37 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. No, not a damn thing happened in Congress until "fortune" shined |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 09:39 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. You're not even making sense |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 10:04 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. I'm saying there's a big difference between getting something SUBSTANTIAL |
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Cherchez la Femme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 06:56 PM Response to Original message |
62. Yep, Mom & Dad always told me |
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bigwillq (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 07:43 PM Response to Original message |
65. Better than nothing is why |
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mvd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-28-09 08:58 PM Response to Original message |
69. Sometimes something is "better than nothing," and sometimes it's not |
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quaker bill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-29-09 06:48 AM Response to Original message |
74. The "all or nothing" crowd fails to understand |
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