Woah - interesting quote from Machiavelli that's pertinent to our health care debate

[rockymountaindem]

"And it should be considered that nothing is more difficult to handle, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage, than to put oneself at the head of introducing new orders. For the introducer has all those who benefit from the old orders as enemies, and he as lukewarm defenders in all those who might benefit from the new orders. This lukewarmness arises partly from the fear of adversaries who have the laws on their side and partly from the incredulity of men, who do not truly believe in new things unless they come to have a firm experience of them. Consequently, whenever those who are enemies have opportunity to attack, they do so with partisan zeal, and the others defend lukewarmly so that one is in peril along with them."

If that isn't the story of the public option/single payer vs. the US Congress, I don't know what is.

[dgauss]

1. 500 year old quote and spot on for today.

Politics is an old profession.

[Alcibiades]

2. Is Obama a Hiero?

For Hiero can do these sorts of things. From a couple of paragraphs after your quote"

"To these great examples I wish to add a lesser one; still it bears some resemblance to them, and I wish it to suffice me for all of a like kind: it is Hiero the Syracusan.<*> This man rose from a private station to be Prince of Syracuse, nor did he, either, owe anything to fortune but opportunity; for the Syracusans, being oppressed, chose him for their captain, afterwards he was rewarded by being made their prince. He was of so great ability, even as a private citizen, that one who writes of him says he wanted nothing but a kingdom to be a king. This man abolished the old soldiery, organized the new, gave up old alliances, made new ones; and as he had his own soldiers and allies, on such foundations he was able to build any edifice: thus, whilst he had endured much trouble in acquiring, he had but little in keeping."

Machiavelli's prescription, BTW, is to use force. The equivalent here would be to bring the grassroots to bear on Congress.

[NYC_SKP]

3. If you're right, I'll sign up for his grassroots army. nt

[Alcibiades]

6. They are already signed up

Call everyone you know from the campaign.

[Honeycombe8]

4. Wow. That is so true. Excellent post. nt

[rockymountaindem]

5. Yes. When I was reading it my mouth fell open

"The Prince" might not be totally relevant to the modern world, but that was a good observation.

[Alcibiades]

7. Cheney/Bush governed as Machiavellians

Though Mcahiavelli himself was much more thoughtful than anyone in that administration.

[JNelson6563]

9. Mayberry Machiavellis

I believe they were dubbed that by a guy who was once with their administration. Possibly the most spot on nickname ever. Some clever DUer even snagged it for a screen name, don't know if they kept if after the name change amnesty or not though.

Julie

[Alcibiades]

10. The Mayberry part is a slander

against my fellow Tarheel and lifelong Democrat Andy Griffith and the little town he created. I like to think no one in Mayberry would have been like the folks in this past administration--though I do wonder about some of Aunt Bea's church ladies.

[JNelson6563]

12. "Mayberry" has become a term meaning "small town"

Are there two words that are less fit to sit together in a sentence than "Mayberry" and "Machiavelli"? No. That's why it was such an effective term for those wretched people.

Julie

[Alcibiades]

13. How about Republican family values?

Compassionate conservatism?

Mayberry Machiavelli is alliterative, but otherwise a malapropism: the folks in Mayberry were mainly good, the Bush administration is pure evil. Far more like Cesare Borgia than Barney Fife.

[JNelson6563]

14. Borgia but without the cunning

Sadly Little Boots had those around him who provided that.

Julie

[lame54]

8. Bingo...

[bertman]

11. Interesting. Thanks for the quote, rockymountaindem.