49% favor a single government plan according to this poll...

[slipslidingaway]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5857701&mesg_id=5857701

http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/7892.pdf


g. Having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance from a single government plan

49% favor
47% oppose


That number should warrant a seat at the table.



"Methodology

This Kaiser Health Tracking Poll was designed and analyzed by public opinion researchers
at the Kaiser Family Foundation led by Mollyann Brodie, Ph.D., including Claudia Deane
and Carolina Gutiérrez. The survey was conducted April 2 through April 8, 2009, among a
nationally representative random sample of 1,203 adults ages 18 and older. Telephone
interviews conducted by landline (902) and cell phone (301, including 98 who had no
landline telephone) were carried out in English and Spanish by Princeton Survey Research
Associates..."

[quantass]

1. As a Canadian with a Great Health Plan i pitty the 47% who dont understand the benfits

It baffles me how half the country can be brainwashed into thinking it is a bad thing. There is a reason why all developed coutnries have a government plan except the US...and we live longer too

[slipslidingaway]

4. In part thanks to our great media :( n/t

[depakid]

10. Decades of relentless propaganda

at times, every bit as dysfunctional as in a dictatorship.

[slipslidingaway]

12. Yes and it is sad :( n/t

[Oregone]

27. For some insight...

The CBC has much more funding than PBS (almost 5X as much) and the US is 10X the size. All the rest of the media organizations are funded privately, thereby creating a conflict of interest with advertisers. I am in awe of the quality of news in Canada compared to the US.

Its amazing that 49% of people support it with zero to few leaders suggesting it. Too bad Obama doesn't have what it takes to jump on this bandwagon and drive it home.

[ejpoeta]

48. they are constantly told how much you hate your awful system and want ours

and then they won't ask any actual canadians themselves because we are Americans and we would never ask a lowly canadian anything!! that's how it works. sorry. I don't feel that way. I think we have been living on a past we invented in our minds for far too long now.

[lindisfarne]

2. 67% are in favor of a public health insurance option like Medicare; 29% opposed.

Creating a public health insurance option
similar to Medicare to compete with private
health insurance plans
Favor: 67%
Oppose: 29%

Same source, question following the one the OP refers to.

[HamdenRice]

3. Yeah, that's the no brainer part. Public Option is even more popular than single payer

so you would think that the Obama administration's pursuit of the plan favored by the most people would be considered the democratic (small d) option.

Surprise, surprise! Not good enough for the purists! Obama MUST chose the SECOND MOST popular plan or else he's a failure, a DLC sell out, a stooge, and a pawn of the insurance industry.

The overwhelming majority of people who seem to have decided on the public option must be suffering from false consciousness, comrade, so their opinions don't matter.

[slipslidingaway]

9. 49% of the people do not matter, the no brainer part is that

they should have been allowed to participate.

Obama does not even have to endorse the plan, but he should not have excluded them from the discussions IMO.

[lindisfarne]

16. I will agree with you there. The Obama administration explicitly denied Sanders' request to be in

on discussions in May. That was wrong and quite frankly, surprised me a lot.

[slipslidingaway]

19. The tone was set by Obama at the WH summit ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8474337&mesg_id=8474583

"being willing to listen to various points of view" - is what Obama said, but that is not what he did.

Is it any wonder that Baucus did not invite any single-payer advocates to testify at the three roundtable discussions, he was following what happened at the WH sumit....

[lindisfarne]

21. I agreed with you! I'm aware of of what Obama said. I don't think single payer is the answer but I

think there should have been room made for Sanders at the table!

[slipslidingaway]

24. Which meeting are you speaking of in May, I'm speaking of

the "kick off" for health care reform at the WH, that is when the direction was outlined. Sanders was at the WH summit, but other doctors who have advocated for a SPHC system for a long time were excluded.

[lindisfarne]

25. Obama never claimed during his campaign that he was for a single payer system - in fact he said the

following:

http://obamatrueandfalse.com/2009/05/20/false%E2%80%94obama-promised-a-single-payer-health-plan/

In 2007

‘If you’re starting from scratch,’ he says, ‘then a single-payer system’-a government-managed system like Canada’s, which disconnects health insurance from employment-’would probably make sense. But we’ve got all these legacy systems in place, and managing the transition, as well as adjusting the culture to a different system, would be difficult to pull off. So we may need a system that’s not so disruptive that people feel like suddenly what they’ve known for most of their lives is thrown by the wayside.’

New Yorker, May 7, 2007

At a roundtable with a handful of invited guests at Lindy’s Diner in Keene, Obama said if he were starting from scratch, he would probably propose a single payer health care system, but because of existing infrastructure, he created a proposal to improve the current system.

Concord Monitor, August 14, 2007

In 2008

Here’s the bottom line. If I were designing a system from scratch I would probably set up a single-payer system…But we’re not designing a system from scratch…And when we had a healthcare forum before I set up my healthcare plan here in Iowa there was a lot of resistance to a single-payer system. So what I believe is we should set up a series of choices….Over time it may be that we end up transitioning to such a system. For now, I just want to make sure every American is covered…I don’t want to wait for that perfect system…The one thing you should ask about the candidates though is who’s gonna have the capacity to actually deliver on the change?…I believe I’ve got a better capacity to break the gridlock and attract both Independents and Republicans to work together.

Seniors Town Hall, Ames, Iowa, January 5, 2008

“I have been entirely consistent in my position on health care. What I said . . . is if I were designing a system from scratch, I would set up a single-payer system.” But given the existing health care system, such a change would be impractical, he said.

Democratic Debate, Manchester, New Hampshire, January 5, 2008

I never said that we should try to go ahead and get single-payer . What I said was that if I were starting from scratch, if we didn’t have a system in which employers had typically provided health care, I would probably go with a single-payer system.

Democratic Debate, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, January 22, 2008

“If I were designing a system from scratch, I would probably go ahead with a single-payer system,” Obama told some 1,800 people at a town-hall style meeting on the economy.

“Given that a lot of people work for insurance companies, a lot of people work for HMOs. You’ve got a whole system of institutions that have been set up,” he said at a roundtable discussion with women Monday morning after a voter asked, “Why not single payer?”

“People don’t have time to wait,” Obama said. “They need relief now. So my attitude is let’s build up the system we got, let’s make it more efficient, we may be over time—as we make the system more efficient and everybody’s covered—decide that there are other ways for us to provide care more effectively.”

Town Hall/Women’s Round Table, Albuquerque, New Mexico, August 18, 2008

And in 2009, as President

If I were starting a system from scratch, then I think that the idea of moving towards a single-payer system could very well make sense. That’s the kind of system that you have in most industrialized countries around the world.

The only problem is that we’re not starting from scratch. We have historically a tradition of employer-based health care. And although there are a lot of people who are not satisfied with their health care, the truth is, is that the vast majority of people currently get health care from their employers and you’ve got this system that’s already in place. We don’t want a huge disruption as we go into health care reform where suddenly we’re trying to completely reinvent one-sixth of the economy.

So what I’ve said is, let’s set up a system where if you already have health care through your employer and you’re happy with it, you don’t have to change doctors, you don’t have to change plans — nothing changes. If you don’t have health care or you’re highly unsatisfied with your health care, then let’s give you choices, let’s give you options, including a public plan that you could enroll in and sign up for. That’s been my proposal.

Town Hall, Rio Rancho, New Mexico, May 15, 2009

[slipslidingaway]

26. And I never said that he did - but he did say that he would bring

everyone together to discuss HC, he did not.

He set the tone moving forward in discussions to exclude single-payer advocates.

That is what I have always said - I know he changed his mind since 2003 when he supported SPHC.

[karynnj]

33. Where do you get that single payer is the most popular plan?

The design of this poll lets you favor as many options as you want - even if they are incompatible.

[John Q. Citizen]

49. No seat at the table is an under-handed way to sell a program. What are you afraid of? Debate?

[slipslidingaway]

7. It might have something to do with the fact that the public

option plan is being pushed by high profile Democrats.

Aside from that do you think 49% of the people should at least be allowed to have someone speak on their behalf?

[lindisfarne]

15. The most recent version of the Kaiser survey was conducted in April 09 - before high profile Dems

began talking much at all about the public option plan.

Rather than simply reacting, how about opening the link and carefully looking at the survey questions and information related to it?

[slipslidingaway]

17. Did you read the OP where I posted the dates of the survey...

talk about reacting!

And some form of a public option was discussed during the primaries by the candidates, they count as high profile Democrats, in addition to the latest push in the media.

[John Q. Citizen]

50. High profile Dems have been pushing the public option since January. Where have you been?

[avaistheone1]

5. I don't trust Kaiser. Kaiser shut single-payer advocates out of a meeting

Max Baucas was conducting at Kaiser on health care reform.

I have also read Kaiser Foundation's research website and they have a definite right-wing tilt.

I would say if their poll says 49% favor single payer, support is actually at least 20% greater. I can just imagine how they biased their questions in the survey.

[lindisfarne]

6. Does that mean you also think support is 20% higher for the public option, or are you accusing Kaise

of simply making up the data?

[avaistheone1]

13. I think the support for single payer is at least 20% higher. I think Kaiser is baised against a

public option. I think they like running their own show.

[lindisfarne]

14. Did you read the information at the link? A survey was conducted. Two of the

questions were provided in this thread (there were more questions in the survey)). Do you think one question is more biased than the other (I don't think there's any evidence for that). Unless you're claiming that Kaiser simply made up the data - or deliberately chose households which are against single-payer but are for a public option, your statement makes no sense.

Arguing from illogical positions hardly helps the cause of health care reform - whatever it may be.

[Cleita]

8. Kaiser operates a string of HMOs. Although they are non-profit, since they

have a dog in this fight, I think they would lean away from single payer so they would have a bias.

[slipslidingaway]

11. Link to the survey is in the OP and at least the direct question

was asked.

[Sebastian Doyle]

18. I don't trust Kaiser either, but

When Kaiser - a corporate "health care" empire - is admitting that half the country wants single-payer, that's significant.

Not to say they would probably endorse the idea themselves.... in fact they're to blame for turning health care into a for profit business in the first place (see the Nixon quote in Michael Moore's "Sicko")

[slipslidingaway]

22. People who support SPHC want a real debate not a pretend

debate and that has caused divisions among some in our own party.

:(

Once we "fix" health care this time it probably will not be addressed again for a long time, we shoud be examining all ideas and not rushing this bill. Otherwise different groups of people could be competing for health care dollars and prompt access to limited primary care physicians in the future.

Agree the number is significant.

[lindisfarne]

23. Kaiser Family Foundation is not associated with Kaiser Permanente or Kaiser Industries.

Come on people. Let's get our fact straight.
http://www.kff.org/about/index2.cfm
A leader in health policy and communications, the Kaiser Family Foundation is a non-profit, private operating foundation focusing on the major health care issues facing the U.S., as well as the U.S. role in global health policy. Unlike grant-making foundations, Kaiser develops and runs its own research and communications programs, sometimes in partnership with other non-profit research organizations or major media companies.

We serve as a non-partisan source of facts, information, and analysis for policymakers, the media, the health care community, and the public. Our product is information, always provided free of charge – from the most sophisticated policy research, to basic facts and numbers, to information young people can use to improve their health or elderly people can use to understand their Medicare benefits.

The Kaiser Family Foundation is not associated with Kaiser Permanente or Kaiser Industries.

from Wikipedia:
The Foundation was established in 1948 by Henry J. Kaiser. In 1977, ten years after Kaiser's death, his conglomerate of disparate organizations split apart. The Kaiser Family Foundation was initially a major owner of these shares, at the time of dissolution, the Foundation owned 32 percent according to Fortune Magazine.<2>

By 1985, the foundation no longer had an ownership stake in Kaiser's old companies, and therefore is no longer associated with Kaiser Permanente or Kaiser Industries. Family members did not retain seats on Kaiser companies, but have remained active with the foundation

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Facts .... how inconvenient

Some other little ditties .......

Johns Hopkins Hospital and Johns Hopkins University are not connected. They simply share having had their initial endowments from the same person.

Kaiser Industries, Kaiser Permanente and Kaiser Family Foundation are just like that with respect to the founding and initial endowing of each.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Also ......

It is not the kaiser FAMILY FOUNDATION ....... it is the KAISER FAMILY foundation.

[slipslidingaway]

20. President Obama Must Include Single-Payer Advocates In National Health Care Debate

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/february/president_obama_must.php

Statement of Sidney Wolfe, M.D., Director, Public Citizen’s Health Research Group, and James Floyd, M.D., Researcher, Public Citizen’s Health Research Group
Feb. 26, 2009

"This morning, President Obama announced he will create a $634 billion reserve fund over the next decade to provide a down payment for expanding health coverage. The announcement comes a week before a White House health care summit that marks the beginning of the first serious effort to reform health care since the Clinton task force in 1993.

The president wants this process to be open and transparent, with the goal of achieving universal coverage. However, groups representing physicians, nurses, and consumers who advocate for a single-payer system of national health insurance have thus far been excluded from the summit.

Under a single-payer system, doctors, hospitals and other health care providers are paid from a single fund administered by the government. The system would eliminate the wasteful spending and high administrative costs of private insurance, saving almost $400 billion annually. This savings is enough to provide every American with the same high-quality care, including those who currently have insurance but still cannot afford medications and treatment.

If health care is a key to fixing our national deficit and providing the economic stimulus that we need to recover from this recession, it is unacceptable to ignore the only system that will provide true universal coverage. If the only people who have input on health care reform are the lobbyists who represent the interests of insurance and drug companies, the final result will be a system that benefits the insurance and drug companies.

The Clinton task force on health reform made a similar mistake of excluding the voices of those who support a single-payer system, and the result was a complicated, inadequate reform proposal that catered to the interests of insurance companies and failed to garner public support. At a time when public support for single-payer is greater than ever - more than 60 percent in recent polls - we urge President Obama not to make the same mistake. He must include single-payer advocates in the health care summit next week."

[slipslidingaway]

28. kick - 49% who favor a single plan should not be excluded

from the discussions.

[jeanpalmer]

31. Why single payer?

Turn the whole thing over to the government. There's no room for profit motive in health care. Why are the doctors and hospitals, who suck the lifeblood out of people, any better than the insurance companies? This is all the product of brainwashing -- doctors charging big bucks are good, insurance companies charging big bucks are bad. Make doctors and hospitals government employees. Right away, you take away the incentive to overcharge and run up procedures that aren't needed. Set a easonable wage for health care employees. $100,000 a year is plenty for a doctor, if you pay his education expenses. That way, you get good people but get rid of the rats who are in it solely for the money. Set up a pilot project of a totally government run system, tweak it to perect it, then go national with it. It's the only thing that's going to work. The idea that a single payer system will pay the exorbitant costs currently billed by greedy doctors and hospitals and stay afloat in an environment where healthcare needs are going through the roof is crazy. It's unworkable.

[slipslidingaway]

38. The single-payer system being talked about is more like

the Canadian system, not the UK system. Doctors would be paid for their services, not a flat fee.

Of course they would have to negotiate fees for services, just like the insurance companies do now with health care providers.

[karynnj]

32. This is misleading

Each option was asked independently - and this actually got the lowest percent favoring it. There were 8 or 9 options tested - though this had 49% favoring it - all others were in the 60s or 70s.

The reason it is off the table is because the Senators and Congressmen leading the effort know that it will not have the votes. Do you remember how often Dean, Kerry, Clinton, Edwards and Obama - all said that if you like your current plan - don't worry, you can keep it. The reasons they did is that many with health care did not want to lose the plan they were on. A better measure would be to ask would you prefer a single government sponsored or run plan or a system that includes both private and public plans, where you can keep your plan if you like it.

[slipslidingaway]

39. Why say it is misleading, it is a recent poll and those were the

percentages, link to the survey is in the OP for all to see.

:shrug:

Many people do not fully understand what is being proposed under a single-payer system and if it gets any mention in the media, most times it is negative.

Still with the misinformation and lack of any high profile Dem advocating for the plan, almost 50% preferred a single-payer system.

Pretty good numbers and should be highlighted in my opinion.

[karynnj]

43. Because you are taking the one response out of context

and I explained what the context is - though it is better for people to go to the link and look at it.

[slipslidingaway]

44. Yes people should look at the survey and I did only highlight

the single-payer question. Maybe it would be better to say there are other questions on the survey that received a higher majority, it was not done to mislead.

:shrug:

We constantly hear that there is not enough support for SPHC, but this poll shows otherwise and that is why I titled it as such.

Also these polls do not mention cost of the programs to the government or to the individual.

I always look at the price tag.

:)

[karynnj]

45. True - and it was nice seeing a survey that actually asked

the question on a single government program. Thanks for posting it.

[slipslidingaway]

46. Yes many surveys do not ask the question directly...thank you :) nt

[John Q. Citizen]

51. i remember that reforms started by people who take money from the health care companies isn't reform

I want.

How about You?

Do you prefer your reform bought off?

[quidam56]

34. We must have health reform this year

We MUST have health care reform this year. As a former health care giver, I am sad to see Profit Care is now more important than Patient Care. http://www.wisecountyissues.com/?p=62 In East Tennessee and southwest Virginia what the heath care system is selling is nothing at all like what really is their "acceptable standards " on public record in Greeneville, TN Federal Court, cases no. 2:04-cv-375. Apparently it's legal to lie about health care and legal to run false and misleading advertising about health care in TN & VA.

[slipslidingaway]

40. We need it ASAP, but we have to get it right and look at all

possibilities.

[sisters6]

35. It should have included several advocates from the different

players in single payer.

[slipslidingaway]

41. Yes, they should have been included....welcome to DU :) n/t

[sisters6]

47. Thank you. Have a good day.

[sisters6]

36. K and R

[mvd]

37. K&R

This is something you don't hear about much.

[slipslidingaway]

42. No we do not, thanks for the knr. nt

[uponit7771]

52. 83% Support a public insurance plan (Corporate Funded EBRI)

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009062515/new-poll-shows-tremendous-support-public-health-care-option

It's surprising that Single Payer isn't being pushed as much as the public plan, we should at least discuss the option

[slipslidingaway]

53. Unfortunately this poll did not ask about a single-payer system...

and yes it should be part of the debate, that is what SP advocates have been seeking.

:)

When the plan being pushed by prominent Democrats polls higher in other surveys...it should not be a surprise.

[GreenTea]

54. When are people going to fucking wake up - You KNOW it's far more tha 49%-

it a fucking Kaiser corporate sponsored poll- next they will tell us, "oh, it's now slipped below 45% the people who don't want single payer" - and every news network & politician will be quoting it as fact & truth, see they American polled don't really want single payer and are happy with their insurance companies....Bullshit!

When are people going to fucking wake up the insurance companies are spending billions to defeat any kind of public option...phony polls, new health care commercial telling how low you can get insurance, paying off politicians on both sides, sending lobbyist to fight public option each and every day, going on news programs and having the republicans throw out their talking point lies tell the dems if you vote for a public option you'll lose in 2010...the stupid dems as always believe the fear-mongering republicans ...this is all so pitiful that people still aren't aware and believe whatever they are being fed!