Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'

[SamCooke]

Photographs of alleged prisoner abuse which Barack Obama is attempting to censor include images of apparent rape and sexual abuse, it has emerged.



At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.

Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.

Another apparently shows a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.

Detail of the content emerged from Major General Antonio Taguba, the former army officer who conducted an inquiry into the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq.

Allegations of rape and abuse were included in his 2004 report but the fact there were photographs was never revealed. He has now confirmed their existence in an interview with the Daily Telegraph.

The graphic nature of some of the images may explain the US President’s attempts to block the release of an estimated 2,000 photographs from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan despite an earlier promise to allow them to be published.

Maj Gen Taguba, who retired in January 2007, said he supported the President’s decision, adding: “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.

“I am not sure what purpose their release would serve other than a legal one and the consequence would be to imperil our troops, the only protectors of our foreign policy, when we most need them, and British troops who are trying to build security in Afghanistan.

“The mere description of these pictures is horrendous enough, take my word for it.”

In April, Mr Obama’s administration said the photographs would be released and it would be “pointless to appeal” against a court judgment in favour of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

But after lobbying from senior military figures, Mr Obama changed his mind saying they could put the safety of troops at risk.

Earlier this month, he said: “The most direct consequence of releasing them, I believe, would be to inflame anti-American public opinion and to put our troops in greater danger.”

It was thought the images were similar to those leaked five years ago, which showed naked and bloody prisoners being intimidated by dogs, dragged around on a leash, piled into a human pyramid and hooded and attached to wires.

Mr Obama seemed to reinforce that view by adding: “I want to emphasise that these photos that were requested in this case are not particularly sensational, especially when compared to the painful images that we remember from Abu Ghraib.”

The latest photographs relate to 400 cases of alleged abuse between 2001 and 2005 in Abu Ghraib and six other prisons. Mr Obama said the individuals involved had been “identified, and appropriate actions” taken.

Maj Gen Taguba’s internal inquiry into the abuse at Abu Ghraib, included sworn statements by 13 detainees, which, he said in the report, he found “credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses.”

Among the graphic statements, which were later released under US freedom of information laws, is that of Kasim Mehaddi Hilas in which he says: “I saw ******* a kid, his age would be about 15 to 18 years. The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then when I heard screaming I climbed the door because on top it wasn’t covered and I saw who was wearing the military uniform, putting his **** in the little kid’s ***…. and the female soldier was taking pictures.”

The translator was an American Egyptian who is now the subject of a civil court case in the US.

Three detainees, including the alleged victim, refer to the use of a phosphorescent tube in the sexual abuse and another to the use of wire, while the victim also refers to part of a policeman’s “stick” all of which were apparently photographed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html

I don't believe this.

[Colobo]

1. It sounds like an Argentinian torture chamber in the late 1970s... so fuckin' infuriating!

[firedupdem]

2. OMG...............horrible. n/t

[asphalt.jungle]

3. another source has to corroborate

because i simply don't believe anything from the torygraph. and that other source can't be relying on the telegraph's "reporting" either.

[vaberella]

13. You have a point. However I remember the recent case of the American soldier

who raped and killed a 14 year old Iraqi girl and then her sister and mother and father. This is not to mention the past issues of soldiers involved in rape and violence in Kosovo. This is not really new stuff in regards to actions of some soldiers or military officials in the past. The thing is, this is in relation to Iraq and they have pictures. We'll see if it's true. I hope not, but at the same time I have a massive seed of doubt saying this is true.

[LooseWilly]

84. I have an idea. Release the pictures.

Until the pictures are released, I find myself inclined to believe anything that is said about them. If I heard that the pictures depicted the use of a camel to sodomize a 3 year old, I would believe it liable to be true.

And you know what... the worse the description of what the photos depict, the more credible the claim sounds, because they have to depict things that are so horrendous that Obama has decided to fight/appeal a FOIA court order. So they have to be horrendous.

And likewise, anyone wanting to use this information for recruiting purposes will say the same thing. I know I would.

So here's an idea... release the photos. Or give them to a special prosecutor/investigator.

Until then... I'll buy any inhuman story any sick fuck of a human being can dream up as being liable to be in one of those photos.

[Captain Hilts]

4. I'll wait for something more than heresay. nt

[MUAD_DIB]

5. How can we not, as law abiding citizens, ask for an investigation of BushCo?!!!

If this revelation of war crimes by Americans will not move our Democratic leadership into action then what will??!!

Maybe if these same atrocities had happened to their families then we might see some action.


I guess that I am hoping for the rule of law too much these days.

[Fresh_Start]

6. no surprise, a GOP Senator already admitted rape and murder

"'The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,' Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. 'We're talking about rape and murder -- and some very serious charges.'

[MUAD_DIB]

8. Lindsey is a GOP door knob-boot licker. He won't do anything.

[Fresh_Start]

10. yes

I mistakenly replied to your post instead of the "its just hearsay post".

[11 Bravo]

58. Lindsey found a better use for door knobs than simply licking them LONG ago.

[GarbagemanLB]

7. We need to release them and allow the murder of additional U.S. soldiers!

It's the right thing to do!!!!!



:sarcasm:

[Thrill]

9. Keep them hidden

[LooseWilly]

85. ... It's *also* the right thing to do !

[Occam Bandage]

11. If that's true I'm changing my position from "release" to "don't release."

[alwysdrunk]

41. So am I

Jesus Christ... :(

[vaberella]

70. That's exactly what crossed my mind. n/t

[Egnever]

62. I am with you.

[mix]

88. why? n/t

[vaberella]

12. Wow...Dear God...what has our government done?!

What have we let them done?! I was going to suggest sending this to KO, but he might not even publicize this. Dear God.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

14. This was repoerted in 2004. I thought that Congress was shown these vids and pix in private also.

http://boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh-children-raped.html

Hersh: children raped at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has videos
Posted by Xeni Jardin, July 15, 2004 12:22 PM | permalink
From Daily Kos' partial transcript of a video (link to REAL stream) of Seymour Hersh speaking at an ACLU event. He says the US government has videotapes of children being raped at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

" Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."

Link (via Warren). There's also a piece worth reading in this week's Newsweek about new allegations of rape and sexual torture at Abu Ghraib. Feature includes details on the identities of the Iraqi prisoners shown in those widely-circulated photographs -- including Satar Jabar (charged with carjacking, not terrorism), whose iconic hooded figure with wires attached is derisively described by many Iraqis as the "Statue of Liberty." Link

Update: Geraldine Sealey at Salon on Hersh's remarks:

After Donald Rumsfeld testified on the Hill about Abu Ghraib in May, there was talk of more photos and video in the Pentagon's custody more horrific than anything made public so far. "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse," Rumsfeld said. Since then, the Washington Post has disclosed some new details and images of abuse at the prison. But if Seymour Hersh is right, it all gets much worse. (...)

Notes from a similar speech Hersh gave in Chicago in June were posted on Brad DeLong's blog. Rick Pearlstein, who watched the speech, wrote: " said that after he broke Abu Ghraib people are coming out of the woodwork to tell him this stuff. He said he had seen all the Abu Ghraib pictures. He said, 'You haven't begun to see evil...' then trailed off. He said, 'horrible things done to children of women prisoners, as the cameras run.' He looked frightened."

There are several questions here: Has Hersh actually seen the video he described to the ACLU, and why hasn't he written about it yet? Will he be forced to elaborate in more public venues now that these two speeches are getting so much attention, at least in the blogosphere? And who else has seen the video, if it exists -- will journalists see and report on it? did senators see these images when they had their closed-door sessions with the Abu Ghraib evidence? -- and what is being done about it?

Link to Salon item.

Update 2: BB guestbar alum Russ Kick of Memory Hole reminds us of a post he made in May about the type of as-yet-unreleased evidence Hersh is presumably discussing. Here, Russ quotes Republican Senator Lindsay Graham: "The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."

Update 3: BoingBoing reader Lars has an update from Germany -- some European media perspective on the allegations:

"Report Mainz" is a German TV show/magazine of the SWR (Sudwest-Rundfunk = South-West broadcasting). "Report Mainz" reported already on 5th July 2004 about the potential abuse of children in Abu Ghraib. (Link). A video (in German) of the feature is available at the page (Link to streaming Real file). You can see interviews with persons who testify that they have seen children arrested in Abu Ghraib and who have seen and have heard of a boy and a 12 year old girl terrified (cold water and mud were spilled over them) by guards or military personal. The boy and the girl were then used to terrify their also arrested parents who were willing to cooperate after seeing their children terrified by the guards/military personnel.

Another TV show/magazine covered the issue too: "Kulturzeit", of the German-Austrian-Swiss broadcaster "3Sat" (Link). The main theme in these features is the concern about the fact that children are arrested and that they are used to apply pressure on their parents."

UPDATE: Evidence to support Hersh's claims in the Taguba Report? Link

[OneGrassRoot]

17. Lindsey Graham's quote after seeing photos:

(though we don't know WHICH photos he saw)

Senator Lindsey Graham (Republican, South Carolina): "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here."

[HopeOverFear]

15. Now I understand why President Obama didn't want to release those photos

[rug]

16. Hiding these photos only compounds the atrocity.

[depakid]

18. It certainly does

Unless and until the photos are released and/or the responsible parties at the highest levels are held to account and prosecuted as per the law(s) -America will remain in the eyes of the world as a nation of torturers.

Moreover, if the Obama admionistration fails to ensure that this happens, it will forever be a stain on their legacy.

[GarbagemanLB]

19. anyway, back to the real world...

the President is responsible for the troops on the ground and their well-being.

[depakid]

20. You're really buying that line of bull?

Wow.

[GarbagemanLB]

21. Considering we have concrete proof of what happens when photos are released, yeah.

I understand that the President has to make tough decisions that, while they may upset ideologues on the left and right, are the best practical decisions to make.


Many on this site wanted a liberal version of Bush, and thankfully Obama isn't that.

[depakid]

22. As if the situation's going to be any different with or without the release

Sometimes Amercians are the world's biggest suckers (and rationalizers).

Frankly, I'm glad that my Northwest accent is so often mistaken for Canadian because this whole deal ought to make anyone ashamed- especially "practical" rationalizers- to look folks in other countries in the eyes.

[GarbagemanLB]

23. Like I said, we have past evidence that releasing photos DOES have an impact in battle zones.

This isn't 'rationalization', this is 'reality'.

[depakid]

24. There you had a completely different context and set of circumstances

that's not even close to comperably to today. Indeed, General Karpinski made a very compelling argument that owning up to this will produce THE OPPOSITE RESULT in the current climate- and make the soldiers safer. As the situation exists NOW (i.e. reality) under an Obama administration.

So- your logic is faulty (at best) and shallow for certain.

But as I said, a lot of Americans get played for suckers.

[vaberella]

25. Actually if this was going on, on her watch. I want her in prison for several years.

I wouldn't listen to a word she had to say because she was helping this shit along. You can hold her on a pedestal of ownership...hell no!! I've heard of such things. But to be given images of it and this happening on her watch when she could have stopped it or said something. I want her to pay for that as well and ALL the officers involved. Losing her status is not enough, she needs jail time and criminal prosecution. So I'm not about to hold her in some regard as someone to listen too.

[depakid]

27. One would hope that people still have the ability to separate the source from the message

(espeically if source is likely to have specific insight into the issue at hand).

[vaberella]

28. Fine,

if she's the messenger and she was there on what was going on (if this was going on for a period of time). I want criminal trials reopen and I want her to go to prison. I want her in Prison, I want the Bush idiots and his crew in prison. I want everyone in Abu Ghraib who did this in prison and I don't want them to leave free and easy. She went as far as to wanting her officers free. However, if that's not the case, then I'm sure she'd be open to a new criminal investigation and if those pictures are real and were during her time she deserves to pay for the crime of being there and I'm sure she'd be glad too as it's in line with her beliefs.

Listening to her, after this information (if it's true has been released), it's like listening to Bush who has specific insight into the issue at hand.

[Moochy]

44. Is that a message from the reality based community?

[LooseWilly]

89. It's actually not 'reality', when it is a product of your fabrications.

You're opining on the results of this "release", and comparing it with results of the last release, and using what would be termed anecdotal evidence to make a judgement about a situation that is actually different than the anecdotal incident you are citing to justify your inclination toward concealment and prevarication.

Sorry... whenever I have to contend with someone who presumes to speak of 'reality', I find myself inclined toward employing diction of ginormous syllabation.

Or, here's an idea. Give the photos to a special prosecutor. Even the ACLU was fine with that "compromise". Apparently it's not enough of a "compromise"... the Administration likes an old Bush-style compromise on this issue.

Give the photos to a special prosecutor, and the public doesn't need to see them... and the troops in your 'reality' are safe. It's win win. Right?

[mix]

87. so how does hiding the truth protect them? n/t

[mkultra]

57. No pictures of rape should ever be released to the media

[vaberella]

26. Ha! That's what you think.. If that stuff was happening on American soil.

And it was American children being violated and beaten and raped and mistreated---you'd see the rise of militant armies and violence against the state that did this. Look at the reaction of our government for 9/11 which led us into a needless war with another nation. Yet, if it's true our soldiers were doing this on people who were by and large innocent of anything. Since we even say it Iraq is a needless war. We'd have no room to talk or even request a discussion for Middle East peace b/c we would have made the issue much worse. It would be worse for our president not only the troops and all US citizens.


That shit is unrealistic. Look at our prisons, if you're a child molester you don't make it too long in the US. So you'd think some other military people who are enemies of our country or don't like us will see this as a act of good will on releasing the pics? Hell no....That just doesn't fly for me.

I don't know what kind of reaction you're expecting, but I'm not expecting something positive since I know how I'd react.

[depakid]

29. "it was American children being violated and beaten and raped and mistreated"

Not sure what sort of polyanna America you THINK you live in- but this IS going on where Americans GLADLY send their kids to prison or boot camps. And, FYI: Other nations already DO think the American "justice" system is barbaric- and for good reason.

In fact, when this comes up and my friends and colleages abroad ask me WTF is wrong with America- I tell them straight uo- it's not America it's Americans. Sweeping it under the rug- and failing to own up to it- does make matters worse. And makes Americans look pathetic as well.

[TheWraith]

30. BING BING BING! We have a winner.

The people who claim that releasing the photos wouldn't have any negative effects are, to put it bluntly, completely alienated from reality.

[depakid]

31. Realty check

You don't think that people in Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere) haven't seen up close and personal more than enough appalling things than this to imflame them? And that on top of that- this is going to make a negative difference

Wow, now that's what I call out of touch- and to put it bluntly- all too typical of sheltered, ethnocentric Americans.

[GarbagemanLB]

32. I know some of you just want to 'feel good about America' regardless of the human cost,

but thankfully the President does.

The pictures have been used for propaganda in the past to incite violence, and will be used in the future if they are released.

As I've said before the pictures should be released for the sake of history - when our troops are out of harm's way.

[depakid]

33. Same sucker argument- same faulty logic and shallow thought

and quite frankly- the same out of touch, shelter and ethnocentric viewpoint.

[dionysus]

35. frankly, i think you have to be out of your mind to think releasing photos of

American GIs raping people could be at all helpful. seriously what reality do you live in?

[depakid]

36. It's not going to hurt- considering the circumstances in those countries

and the fact that people there are already WELL AWARE of these sorts of atrocities- and MUCH, MUCH worse.

Seriously- what reality do YOU live in?

Oh, that's right- sheltered in the United States, where you don't have to see and live through those sorts of things- and so would prefer that they be swept under the rug.

[GarbagemanLB]

38. It's a reality that involves actually giving a shit about our men and women overseas.

[depakid]

40. Oh bullshit

That sounds just like... well, I won't say- but you can guess.

[dionysus]

45. hoookay, it's not gonna hurt. hollllly smokes...

:rofl:

[depakid]

53. Might hurt some Americans' "beautiful minds"

But Iraqi's aren't Americans- they only have to live every day- up close and personal with what's already been done.

Oh, and those torture memos? Any "adverse reaction" to those on the ground. No.

I wonder why?

:sarcasm:

[TheWraith]

37. Knowing something and seeing it are completely different things.

Are you telling me that, for instance, you wouldn't get mad in the least if you sat down and leafed through a set of photos showing the torture at Gitmo?

You wouldn't be even a little upset watching video of an American soldier raping an Iraqi woman?

Now imagine how the Iraqis would feel after years of living under the constant chaos and anger that they have. Think of how strongly those photos would bring back every ounce of collective rage they've ever felt towards Americans and American troops.

You really think that that's a GOOD thing for the peace and tranquility of Iraq?

[depakid]

42. Dude- they've have their families shot up and blown to bits!

And tortured at our hands! They've seen the scars and heard the stories from people that they know- and maybe love.

You don't think they have just a little bit more immediacy with the deal than some set of pictures?

Sheesh. Clueless.

[TheWraith]

46. Yes, you ARE clueless.

In addition to being divorced from reality. You clearly WANT to see only one possible outcome, that the Iraqis will love us for releasing more pictures of their people being raped, murdered, and tortured. And you're unwilling to accept for even one second that your preconceived notion might be wrong, because then you wouldn't be able to run your holier-than-thou bit.

[depakid]

64. No, I just live in the reality based community not some bizarro American exceptionalist world

where people shield themselves from what Iraqi's already know and live with.

In fact, this doesn't just evince a complete lack of understanding on your part- but almost some sort of delusion or disassociation derived from too much TV. Or something.

Saigon68 calls it right on this thread in the LBN (along with more than a few others)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3895514&mesg_id=3895915

[dionysus]

48. right, so seeing the pictures are gonna what, make them reminisce about it?!?!?!?

it'll be like pouring salt into a wound.

[depakid]

65. PULLEASE pull your head out of the sand

and consider what these folks go through and have gone through every day.

You really think- considering all of that that they're going to go apeshit over these few photos? You might- but people who've had those experiences wont. Any more than they did over the memos.

In fact, if anything- they'll want Americans to feel at least some little sense of shame- and would hope for some accountability to take place. I know I would if I were in their shoes.

[dionysus]

68. like i said, take a stroll through a muslim country passing out torture pics and see how they throw

flowers at you.

[depakid]

78. Crikey- they see what's reported about this on Al Jeezera already!

They've seen the photo's the Aussies have released. This is not going to endanger the troops one iota more than they're already endangered. If anything, hiding them makes it all the much worse- as it drags out and nothing is done on our end.

[dionysus]

34. it astounds me that people actuallythink releasing photos of ameran GIs raping people isn't going to

piss anyone off... and to go to the opposite extreme that it would actually HELP us.

[depakid]

39. And it astounds me how blind some people are to what's already gone on

and is still going on.

And you bet owning up and putting the rule of law back into place by fulfilling our obligations to hold people accountable under US and international law. How ANYONE can't see that is beyond me.

[dionysus]

47. sorry, if you think thats not going to inflame people, you're incredibly naive.

there isn't shit being swept under the rug.

In fact, i'd wager you want these pictures released to make us look worse.

[depakid]

51. No- you're incredibly blind to other people's situations- and here's someone who agrees:

General Karpinski:

How can more photos hold such explosive risk? Are the most damning pieces of information the date stamps on the photographs or the locations of the abuses? Or are the commanders simply anxious because people will be able to connect more dots and finally realize prisoner abuse was far more than "seven bad apples" and occurred long before there was a war in Iraq -- perhaps in areas of responsibility under their command.

Do these same commanders, advising the president, have something far more important at risk and do the photographs reveal far more than what they want revealed? Are these details the strongest motivation for a president to make such a controversial decision and flip-flop on the promise of transparency?

The insurgency is organized, well led and highly motivated, with a goal of making the invaders go away. The insurgents are all too painfully aware of what was happening in interrogations and interrogation facilities in Iraq, Afghanistan and at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. This reversal will only empower them further to stay the course. We are not kidding anyone. Did anyone report a rise in insurgency activity following the release of the interrogation memos? No.

It is a ruse to suggest the photographs may endanger the lives of soldiers serving in the region. These photographs are not going to imperil coalition forces any more than the perils they are facing each and every day in Iraq and Afghanistan, so why delay?

The photographs will be released eventually. There is no valid justification to reverse a decision to release more photographs of prisoner abuse. We are better than this as a nation.

[dionysus]

55. i have an idea for you. take the torture photos, and stroll through baghdad showing them to everyone

you see. keep us posted on how long you'd last doing that.... but since its some other shmuck that has to take that risk, you don't give a shit do you?

:rofl:

[dionysus]

49. releasing the pictures publically has jack to do with the rule of law.

how many kids you want to get shot overseas so you can feel good about exposing bushco?

[depakid]

52. Oh, gee there's no court order, is there?

Quite frankly you're falling for a ruse- and demonstrating a considerable amount of Bush supporter "reasoning" in the process.

[dionysus]

54. cut out that "bush supporter" horse shit. you got nothing.

[depakid]

66. Sorry, but that's exactly what it sounds like

and it's exactly how some act like with respect to most anything Obama does- whether it's right or wrong. And in this case it's wrong- and most people know it.

[rug]

71. Your logic is that the release of the photos is as bad as the rape.

The only way this government can recover any shred of credibility and morality is to deal with these crimes front and center.

The reaction to a further coverup is as likely to engender more harm, short- and long-term, than dealing with this openly.

The troops are once again being used as a smokescreen to conceal war crimes.

[alwysdrunk]

43. No, releasing them would compound it.

It would no doubt set off another round of violence. Violence that goes both ways, back and forth. If releasing these will cause more assualts and deaths (and we know that it would) than keeping them hidden is the only right thing to do.

[rug]

72. Ok, so concealing the photos will restore peace to Iraq?

[alwysdrunk]

77. If peace will ever be restored, then releasing them delays that point in time.

Peace won't be restored in Iraq until a LOT of different things happen, us getting our forces out being one of the main ones. But putting provocative photos out only delays the point when peace will be restored.

[rug]

79. For peace, first, remove the troops.

Second, come clean about the atrocities.

Third, prosecute those who caused the atrocities.

The photos are not the problem, it is the atrocities.

Releasing them is the first step in acknowledging the government is authentically committed to a change in the manner in which it conducts war.

A coverup only undersores suspicions about the government's motives.

[mkultra]

56. releasing them exposes the victims.

[rug]

73. Better not prosecute anyone lest rape victims be embarassed.

[mkultra]

75. you can prosecute without releasing photos publicly.

[rug]

76. They've done neither.

[mkultra]

91. true, but still seperate.

[mix]

86. +1

torture will have (is having) a black hole effect on our politics

[Moochy]

50. K&R

Insert generic jingoistic pro-empire, pro-troops bullshit.

[SeaLyons]

59. I don't want them released, but I fear they will be eventually, and

If Bush and his cronies go unpunished for their crimes, then we as a country will be punished.

Absolutely DISGUSTING!!! Truly hard to believe, but I do believe it. How could this kind of abuse ever happen?

[jberryhill]

60. Authenticated Verbal Descriptions Would Be An Improvement

If the court orders them released, then they should of course be released.

At this point, the fragmentary verbal descriptions are difficult to read. If they are released, I do not want to see them, but would want to see some kind of confirmation of the verbal descriptions of each of the items in question.

[redqueen]

61. Why don't you believe it?

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. we're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience." He did not elaborate.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/08/iraq/main616338.shtml

[SamCooke]

83. I don't want to believe it. Not even under the Bush administration.

[LittleBlue]

63. Get out of these countries, the US is disgraced sufficiently already

We're building billion dollar facilities in Iraq and now (apparently) Afghanistan.

Monuments to rape, imo. GTFO of there.

[invictus]

67. Releasing them and punishing the perpetrators is the only way to prevent these war crimes from happe

... happening again.

[vaberella]

69. Obama is already working to make sure that laws are passed and

steps are taken to make sure this doesn't happen again. The pictures are not the only thing.

[rug]

74. There are already laws in place. Enforce them.

[vaberella]

82. Hasn't he?

I don't think releasing the pictures has anything to do with enforcing laws.

[jenmito]

80. Gibbs was asked if this was true and he said no. n/t

[vaberella]

81. I hope so.

I don't know what to believe any more. If this is true...and it could be because I remember reading the work done on how UN officers were raping people and we had that case a few weeks ago about that soldier who raped the 14 year old and killed her and her family. I wouldn't be surprised by this.

[chill_wind]

90. Declaration of Khaled Fahmy

http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/legaldocuments/eDeclKhaledFah

Khaled Fahmy explains that Iraqis know the facts and truth, and don't need those photos for propaganda.

The peril to our country is not the pictures. The real peril here long-term is the very refusal on the part of our government and military to enact accountability for them.