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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 08:53 AM
Original message
Feingold Plans Hearing on Obama's Detention Policy
Edited on Sat May-23-09 09:03 AM by flpoljunkie
Feingold Plans Hearing On Obama's Detention Policy

Sen. Russ Feingold plans a hearing in June about President Obama's plan to seek "prolonged detention" without trial for some of the Guantanamo detainees. In a letter to Obama, Feingold writes that while he appreciates Obama's "good faith desire to at least enact a statutory basis for such a regime, any system that permits the government to indefinitely detain individuals without charge or without a meaningful opportunity to have accusations against them adjudicated by an impartial arbiter violates basic American values and is likely unconstitutional."

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/05/feingold_plans_hearing_on_obamas_detention_policy.php

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD

May 22, 2009

The President
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, D.C. 20500

Dear Mr. President:

I am writing to convey my appreciation for your speech of May 21 on security and values, but
also to express several concerns, particularly about your intention to design a system for what
you called "prolonged detention."

On many fronts, your speech confirmed your commitment to defending our country while
reversing the previous administration's numerous attacks on the rule of law. I was particularly
pleased by your forceful rejection of torture, an issue on which you have backed up your
campaign rhetoric with sustained action, beginning on your second day in office. I also welcome
your acknowledgment that the state secrets privilege has been overused, as well as your
commitment to reform. As you know, the Senate Judiciary Committee is currently considering
legislation on this matter, which I hope your administration will now support. I also look
forward to briefings on your administration's use ofthe privilege thus far, in keeping with your
commitment to "voluntarily report to Congress when we have invoked the privilege and why."

In addition to these substantive matters, I was encouraged by your stated commitment to working
with the judiciary and Congress as co-equal branches of government on issues of national
security. This respect for our constitutional system stands in strong contrast to the approach of
the previous administration. In light of the principles you have put forth, I look forward to full
and open discussions between your administration and Congress on policy and legal matters. I
also welcome your stated appreciation for congressional oversight and for the need for Congress
to have full access to classified programs and information. As you know, the previous
administration established numerous obstacles to effective oversight and I welcome your
commitment to tearing down what remains of those obstacles.

In the spirit of an open, productive dialogue between your administration and Congress, I wish to
layout my concerns related to the disposition of detainees at Guantanamo Bay. I strongly
supported the decision you made in January to close the detention facility at Guantanamo and
continue to do so. The facility has been used as a recruiting tool by our enemies, and allowing it
to remain open would pose an unacceptable threat to our national security. I look forward to
considering your administration's plan for closing the facility, and I welcome your decision to
bring suspected terrorists, like Ahmed Gailani, to justice.

Among the issues Congress must consider carefully is any resumption of the use of military
commissions. Like you, I voted against the Military Commissions Act of 2006. I agree with you
with regard to that statute's many flaws, but it is not clear to me that those flaws can be fixed, or
that the other options in the current federal criminal justice and courts martial systems for
bringing the detainees to justice are insufficient or unworkable. If Congress is to fully consider
your proposal for military commissions, therefore, it will need access to the same information
your administration is currently reviewing, including detailed, classified information on
individual detainees and the extent to which other options are available.

My primary concern, however, relates to your reference to the possibility of indefinite detention
without trial for certain detainees. While I appreciate your good faith desire to at least enact a
statutory basis for such a regime, any system that permits the government to indefinitely detain
individuals without charge or without a meaningful opportunity to have accusations against them
adjudicated by an impartial arbiter violates basic American values and is likely unconstitutional.

While I recognize that your administration inherited detainees who, because of torture, other
forms of coercive interrogations, or other problems related to their detention or the evidence
against them, pose considerable challenges to prosecution, holding them indefinitely without trial
is inconsistent with the respect for the rule of law that the rest of your speech so eloquently
invoked. Indeed, such detention is a hallmark of abusive systems that we have historically
criticized around the world. It is hard to imagine that our country would regard as acceptable a
system in another country where an individual other than a prisoner of war is held indefinitely
without charge or trial.

You have discussed this possibility only in the context of the current detainees at Guantanamo
Bay, yet we must be aware of the precedent that such a system would establish. While the
handling of these detainees by the Bush Administration was particularly egregious, from a legal
as well as human rights perspective, these are unlikely to be the last suspected terrorists captured
by the United States. Once a system of indefinite detention without trial is established, the
temptation to use it in the future would be powerful. And, while your administration may resist
such a temptation, future administrations may not. There is a real risk, then, of establishing
policies and legal precedents that rather than ridding our country of the burden of the detention
facility at Guantanamo Bay, merely set the stage for future Guantanamos, whether on our shores
or elsewhere, with disastrous consequences for our national security. Worse, those policies a~d
legal precedents would be effectively enshrined as acceptable in our system of justice, having
been established not by one, largely discredited administration, but by successive administrations
of both parties with greatly contrasting positions on legal and constitutional issues.

I do not doubt your good faith efforts to wrestle with these complex issues, and I am confident
that you would seek to use any new authorities carefully andjudiciously. But, as I know you
appreciate, fundamental changes to our constitutional system cannot be considered in the context
of individual presidents or administrations. Whatever new regimes you and the Congress choose
to enact will likely remain in place long after your administration has ended, to be used, or
abused, by future presidents.

I appreciate your efforts to reach out to Congress on this important issue. In that spirit, I intend
to hold a hearing in the Constitution Subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee in June
and ask that you make a top official or officials from the Department of Justice available to
testify. I recognize that your plans are not yet fully formed, but it is important to begin this
discussion immediately, before you reach a final decision. I will be sending formal invitations in
the coming weeks and look forward to hearing the testimony of your administration.

I thank you for this opportunity to convey my views and look forward to continued collaboration
as we return our country to the rule of law while aggressively targeting al Qaeda and its
affiliates.

Sincerely,

Russell D. Feingold
United States Senator
cc: The Honorable Eric Holder
Attorney General of the United States



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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 08:56 AM
Original message
K&R For The Constitution
Edited on Sat May-23-09 08:59 AM by MannyGoldstein
Obama is certainly better than Bush, but if Obama wants to change the Constitution he should go through the amendment process.

In a better world than ours, Feingold would have held a high position in the Obama administration.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good. It's about process. Understanding and opening the process. We need to do this.
Edited on Sat May-23-09 08:57 AM by Captain Hilts
It's not about:

1) Whether we believe the detainees are innocent or guilty.
2) Whether we support or oppose the detention policy.
3) Whether we support or oppose the president's take on this policy.

It's about the process.

Respect for the process is what prevents the ends from justifying the means.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Where have those hearings been the past 8 years?
too little too late Russell
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Better late than indefinite.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. This would be a case where late is worse than never
Edited on Sat May-23-09 08:59 AM by NJmaverick
just a waste of time and resources while Russel show boats for the left
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Why Would You Say Feingold Is Showboating?
He's one of the few Democrats in Congress who has consistently espoused, and voted for, Democratic ideals.

No?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. He did NOTHING when there was a true villian actually torturing prisoners
going after the guy cleaning up that mess and restoring the constitution and rule of law reeks of show boating
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. One of Us Is Historically Challenged
Edited on Sat May-23-09 09:06 AM by MannyGoldstein
e.g., http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2054096

Please: check things out before you make accusations.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Yes get your facts straight a letter with out investigations is NOTHING
please check things out before incorrectly disputing the facts
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
73. Yep, and it isn't you, Manny.
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
31. You need to look into Russ Feingold's record.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. I saw that nothing was done to stop or slow down the torture and illegal imprisonment
until President Obama did something. That's what is important.
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RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
60. Didn't he also vote to confirm Ashcroft, who sanctioned much of this?
Maybe this is to atone for that
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #60
93. I'll never understand that vote...but he said he was trying to get past the bipartisanship
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
87. Feingold introduced a bill to censure Bush
Only three Senators had the guts to co-sponsor it - Harkin, Boxer and Kerry. (Note - not Obama or Clinton) He also was the leader in fighting the Patriot Act.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. He did NOTHING to stop the illegal torture and detention
now that someone else is actually taking ACTION to clean up the mess he has a self serving side show hearing that serves only to take time and resources away from fixing things, just to further his political career.
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #25
47. You keep repeating yourself.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. It's an important point, that is lost on so many
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #47
78. It's needs repeating..thank
you for your concern.
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Old Hank Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
84. Feingold wasn't briefed on torture
Pelosi was. What are you talking about?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Pssst. We have stronger majorities in congress now. nt
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. psst we had a majority and he did NOTHING
this is nothing but detrimental show boating at this point.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Introducing A Bush Censure Resolution is Nothing?
He did a lot of other things too. He tried - check it out.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Yes it is an investigation like he wants to do to the man fixing the mess
would have been something meaningful and made a diffference
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. You support for the president's detention policy has been noted.
And it very well might be right.

But I welcome any examination of the process, and yes, I wish this had come eight years earlier, but it was not to be because of Dem numbers on the Hill.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. I question the motives sinc e it would have actually stopped wrong doing
if he did it during the Bush Administration. Now it just reeks of show boating and will waste time Obama's people need to fix the aweful mess they face.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
88. We had 51 Senators - but not on everything
that included Lieberman. Without Lieberman (or anyone else) we did not have a majority.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. I'm glad Feingold is publicly doing this. The prez does
think, and listen to other opinions. This is one he should listen to.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. It will help the president and Dems to have a methodical examination of what we're doing. nt
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. It will waste the time of the President and his people
time he needs to continue to clean up the aweful mess.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. The process is important. We're a nation of laws, not men. 'Process' was abandoned under GWB.
We play by the rules.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. Considering what Obama has on this plate, does his people have the time
to attend Russel's side show?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Do they have the time to listen to a senator's concerns? I hope so. nt
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. They can do that by a far more productive meeting
then again, that wouldn't provide Russel with the publicity he seeks
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. Why do you want to quell discussion?
I'm not getting it. I adore the prez, but he does need to listen to people.

Do you have a bone to pick with Feingold? Sounds like it.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. Discussion is this case can best be served with a private meeting
a public investigation will be an inefficient waste of time and resources, that only serves to put Russel in the spot light. I have a bone to pick with any politician that puts their political career ahead of the interests of our nation, and that is exactly what he is doing.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #48
61. You should take a page out of Obama's book.
He wants to hear from people, and he should.

As for making this public, Feingold has that right. There won't be anyone able to sweep it under any rug if we know what's going on.

I just don't see the problem, but have at it.

As for Feingold wanting the publicity, I think you're delusional. To what gain? The man has a conscience and expresses himself often. I find that refreshing, not off-putting.
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eyesroll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #48
62. You know, he has two "l"s in his name.
Russell.

If you're gonna repeat it, you might as well get it right.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. He wants to start his own thread. An examination of this policy will make the Prez look GOOD!
and the US also will look better.

I don't understand what's difficult to understand about that.

We're the Good Guys again, let's let it show.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. It's not hard to understand you point. Agreeing with that wrong opinion
on the other hand is quite difficult.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Some things are important enough to make time for. Your support for the prez on this has been noted
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. They could have a private meeting, which would be far more productive
and efficient. That wouldn't give Russel the publicity he craves, so he didn't go that route.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #35
49. I want to trust the process. Look what GWB did in private meetings.
I trust President Obama. I want to trust the process also.


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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #35
57. The process should be public
open and transparent.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
89. Excuse me ..are we a nation of "We the people" or not? Seems to me you want the people shut out
Edited on Sat May-23-09 10:37 PM by flyarm
of knowing what the hell is going on in our government..we the people have the right and responsibility to know what is going on when it comes to the laws of our land..therefore Public hearings..you have a priblem with me knowing what the hell is going on in my name??????????

Your distain for public hearings is well noted..but "I" want to be able to do what is responsible ..and that is to watch and hear a public hearing on a matter so important, that could make anyone in my family held illegally and against my constitution..and "I" demand it ..in the name of a representative government of which we are supposed to have.,.not of private meetings!

I have the right to know what policies are being put into play in "MY GOVERNMENT"..IF YOU DON'T GIVE A DAMN DON'T WATCH OR READ ABOUT IT..YOUR POROGATIVE..BUT MINE IS TO WATCH AND LISTEN AND BE ABLE TO MAKE DEMANDS TO PROTECT MY CONSTITUTION!


OH AND P.S....there is nothing more important than protecting our constitution..you got a problem with that??????????
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
90. How do you know how productive a private meeting would be?
how do you know..come on..please tell us ...we will await your answer..

Remember the private meetings Bush and Cheney had with the 9/11 commissioners..what do you know of that private meeting????????

We are a Representative government..that means..most everything should be done in front of the people.

We have the right to know what is being done and said and any policies that are being implemented!

All of our employees in this government have an obligation to hold hearings on policy. Period.
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
50. First the Repugs were in charge, Then Pelosi and Reed were timid to say the leat. What
specific hearings would you have liked? by which committee? Was Russ in charge?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
79. Off The TABLE
:thumbsdown:
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. Why the long letter, Russ? Didn't Obama say:
"But I want to be very clear that our goal is to construct a legitimate legal framework for the remaining Guantanamo detainees that cannot be transferred. Our goal is not to avoid a legitimate legal framework. In our constitutional system, prolonged detention should not be the decision of any one man. If and when we determine that the United States must hold individuals to keep them from carrying out an act of war, we will do so within a system that involves judicial and congressional oversight. And so, going forward, my administration will work with Congress to develop an appropriate legal regime so that our efforts are consistent with our values and our Constitution."
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Simple show boating at the expense of our nation's interests
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Russ does NOT showboat and it shameful for anyone Dem to say that.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. Oh that's right Russel stopped the torture and illegal imprisionment
Edited on Sat May-23-09 09:52 AM by NJmaverick
years ago. :eyes:
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. He could do that all by himself?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #46
56. Well lack of effort on his part also played a big part
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. Russ was a very outspoken committee member and Specter was the Chair of
the judiciary committee. Specter caved a lot on his pronouncements to hold hearings. You are placing the burden on one committee member while Repugs were in charge. You need to review your history of what went on.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. I have great admiration for Senator Feingold, but he sure does seem to be showboating.
This isn't the first letter he's written to Obama telling him "how to be a good president". Makes one wonder.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Yes it does
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. And this goes right along with the scenario the President described....
... well, in essence anyway. ;)

If and when we determine that the United States must hold individuals to keep them from carrying out an act of war, we will do so within a system that involves judicial and congressional oversight. And so, going forward, my administration will work with Congress to develop an appropriate legal regime so that our efforts are consistent with our values and our Constitution.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.text.html?pagewanted=6&_r=1&em


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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
16. But he couldn't be bothered to hold hearings on Bush's Detention Policy?
I wonder what Bush has on him?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Yeah funny he couldn't be bothered to stop actual wrong doing
now when he thinks he can score points with the political left he is all over the guy actually trying to clean up the mess
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
59. You know NOTHING about Feingold when you make a DEMEANING comment
about him 'scoring points"
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
72. You realize you are parroting the RW torture argument about Pelosi, right?
Why didn't she stop Bush from Torturing? Your repetitions about why didn't Feingold stop Bush make just as much sense.

Because Bush got it so wrong is why we want to make sure Obama does it right. Obama HIMSELF said he wanted to design a system with Congressional oversight, so all of your pointless rants about Feingold "showboating are, well, pointless.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
:kick:

I do not doubt your good faith efforts to wrestle with these complex issues, and I am confident
that you would seek to use any new authorities carefully and judiciously. But, as I know you
appreciate, fundamental changes to our constitutional system cannot be considered in the context
of individual presidents or administrations. Whatever new regimes you and the Congress choose
to enact will likely remain in place long after your administration has ended, to be used, or
abused, by future presidents.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
29. awww, listen to the whiners complaining b/c Feingold "did nothing" re Bush
I don't care whose administration it is, I want UNCONSTITUTIONAL moves investigated.
One speech does not suffice--it's easy to give a speech with a bunch of empty promises--after all, we heard a "speech" about how no lobbyists would have positions in the Obama administration--we all know where that went, the very next day--and a speech with the promise that bailout money would not be used for corporate bonuses, which also went south--there have been other speeches that have not panned out the way they were going to, but I have a deadline at work and cannot do this right now--but I truly want to know what kind of criminal activity can result in incarceration if there is no EVIDENCE of that activity that can be presented in the thousand-year-old process of rule by law.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Bingo. Obama's words do not match his actions. The time to put his latest words to the test is NOW.
SOMEBODY needs to stop Obama before he totally turns into Bush III.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. Oh my.........


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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. Would you like some cheese with your whine
:rofl:
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. continue not questoning anything
believe everything your "elected representatives" tell you.
make a joke out of unlawful kidnapping and indefinite detention.
the next time a republican president comes into office, you probably won't find it so funny.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Continue supporting polticians that didn't investigate and are not going to investifate Bush
but want to go after President Obama
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
91. ahhh what did Obama investigate when he was in the senate?? what did Obama do about Bush and Cheney?
I find your questions compelling since you haven't said jack shit about Obama doing nothing!
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #44
65. Bingo... My Thoughts Exactly! I Don't Understand Why So Many Are
so willing to give this administration a "pass" on what BFEE did and can't "see" we aren't really "going forward" just repeating the "past!"

At least that's how I see it and it disturbs MORE that this administration has adopted so much of the same CRAP! Democrats have been such a disappointment for so many years now, THEY have the NUMBERS, we GAVE them to them... but the SPINE still seems to be missing!!!

If this keeps up, I fear many will leave and become Independents, even those of us who "need" to state party affiliation to vote in primaries. I'm NOT there yet, but given that I live in FL and it's controlled by Repukes my votes have done "little" to change much.

I will probably wait to see what is going to happen with Meek & Crist, then make a decision.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. My Answer Was To Ima-Sinnic... n/t
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #40
92. ahhhhhhhhhhh..."To some degree it matters who's in office"
To some degree it matters who's in office, but it matters more how much pressure they're under from the public.
—Noam Chomsky
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
32. Would he consider replacing Reid?
Edited on Sat May-23-09 10:02 AM by redqueen
I can't stop thinking about how much better he would be in that role.

I'd much rather have Feingold there pulling Obama and the Senate Dems to the left.


And to those trying to claim he did nothing during Bush's administration - shame on you.

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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
43. Go Russ! The man who should have been President. n/t
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
52. I'm glad Russ is on the job. nt
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #52
63. Me Too... At The Very Least HIS Voice Is Louder Than Ours! At Least The
voices of those of us who are perplexed and dare I say very unhappy about HOW issues are evolving with this Administration! It's quite a shock to me, it's NOT what I was expecting from them and it's NOT what I VOTED FOR!!!!

Since most in Congress have given BFEE a "free pass" what other actions are there on the table???? Maybe by standing firm in what you believe in, like Feingold does he can make enough noise so others "might" perk up their ears or use their eyes to take a REAL GOOD LOOK!!

I may be missing some links that have been posted as I'm not here as much as I used to be, but I have seen NOTHING that has shown me that ANYONE is going to hold BFEE accountable for anything. Obama has even put down Valerie Plame!! I can't understand all these reversals because then all he stated on the campaign trail simply comes down to "political rhetoric" which I feel duped me.

In a year, if this is still going OR possibly getting worse, I must say that I won't be able to support him for a 2nd term. On the other hand if there's a different agenda, secret or something, that can correct some errors, I suspect only time will tell!

For now, call me "jaded" and "cynical!"
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
53. I have a suggestion for Obama.
We're talking about people who because of spoiled evidence, lack of evidence, or other circumstances, cannot be charged with crimes, be they American criminal acts or international crimes of war.

At the same time, we cannot release them because they may pose a threat to the U.S. or its people.

There's a word for these people:

Prisoners of War.

There's plenty of precedent for taking prisoner members of other country's armed forces during a conflict, to keep them out of the fight. We recognize that those enemy soldiers did not commit crimes per-se. And there's rules for how we're allowed to treat them - they're in the Geneva Conventions.

Yes, they may technically be "terrorists" or "saboteurs" according to the rules. We can be bigger than that and give them full prisoner-of-war status.

Then treat them STRICTLY according to the Geneva conventions.

Messy solution yes, but I think President Obama can at least do that.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #53
67. What war?
The war on terror? That's not a war but a PR campaign to stir up patriotism. Designating these detainees as POWs would be like designating suspected drug dealers as POWs in the "war on drugs".
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, in fact it's rather messy...
but it would have the virtue of keeping some ground rules (namely the Geneva Conventions) in place with regards to the way these guys were treated.

Besides, you could ask "What war?" with regards to the Vietnam War. We never formally declared war - it was a "police action." Doesn't mean the Geneva Conventions don't apply.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
54. K & R
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
68. Better late than never
the backbone transplant the Dems got on 1/20/09 is bearing fruit. Lets keep Obamas feet to the fire! Making up for the foot massages that Bush got from Congress.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
69. Where were these hearings the last 6 yrs? Another Democrat that all of sudden has a backbone
now that Bush is no longer President. Sick of these Hypocrites. And if he wanted Gitmo closed so bad, why the hell did he vote against funding the closing of it??
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
70. What bullshit!
How about an investigation into war crimes?

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newinnm Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
74. What an Asshole.....Questioning "Our Guy"
Doesn't he realize that if its "our guy" then its ok. Congress must realize that its only bad if "their guy" is going it. A "D" after the name washes away all semblance of being wrong.

Congress has got to get on board and go back to the countries business of issuing non-binding declarations and lending the corporations our money and then forgiving the debt. :sarcasm:

-nnnm
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JimWis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
75. I hope to see Senator Feingold this week. As I understand it,
he is holding an open office meeting or town hall, whatever he calls it, here where I live. I believe it is this coming Wednesday, trying to find out the details right now. Thanks. Appreciate the info in your post.
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. I have been to several of his town hall meet ups over the years. They
are very informative and mostly well attended. Folks talk and ask about so many issues and Russ has always been his usual polite self--and is not afraid to say what he thinks.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
76. K&R
:kick:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
80. Nothing gives Dems in Congress balls like a Dem President, but better late than never.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
81. Good for you Senator. Now, make sure you don't fold if pressure
mounts against you. We support your decision.
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thedeanpeople Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
82. k&r
Edited on Sat May-23-09 03:52 PM by thedeanpeople
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Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
83. Go Feingold.eom
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
85. I agree with Russ. Nothing wrong with a hearing, ferchrissakes...
Perhaps some information might spill out about Bush in the process...


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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
86. So many people afraid of what could happen. Do you not trust Obama?
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
94. Good for Russ.
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