What concessions are you willing to make for single-payer healthcare?

[busymom]

I know we are used to getting it all/having it all when it comes to healthcare. When we are insured, we want all of the bells and whistles and we aren't, we're struggling and upset...I get it.

So...I lived in both Germany and the UK and got medical care in both countries under the public insurance plan.

When I was in labor with my first child, I labored in a communal room (in a top notch hospital) with other women and their husbands until there were problems and I was moved to a room with 3 other women, 1 bathroom and no room dividers. A good hospital...I said that, right! The hospital insists on 7 day stays for first time moms, which is great, but did not provide patients with towels, wash rags or anything like that (ie sanitary pads). Boy was I surprised. I had no idea. When I didn't have a towel, the nurse told me "this is not a hotel".

I labored ineffectively for over 36 hours (and my membranes had ruptured before that) and eventually, we were able to be seen by someone other than the midwife, who then did an emergent (and very late c-section). Fortunately, all went well. I spent the next several days in a room with 4 other women and their guests with no room dividers while I nervously tried to learn how to breastfeed. Also, pelvic exams were done in the rooms with...no dividers...just so you know.

I had my next child in Northern Ireland with the NHS. Everytime I went to see the OB I saw a different provider. The rooms for moms had 10 moms in them with their babies after delivery. Sleep=Not really. Thankfully, they did provide towels, but I was so paranoid that I brought mine anyway.

The issue here is money. What are you willing to cut out? As it is right now, with how lawsuit happy we have become, everyone with a headache that goes into the ER gets at CT..every belly pain gets a CT....Doctors and hospitals are afraid not to do these things even though they aren't standard of care and aren't practices that would be done in Europe. Also, in Europe, the cost of scanners like PET, CT and MRI machines is prohibitive and there are very few scanners available (hence a waiting list). At the time that we lived in N. Ireland, the only scanner was in Belfast and there was a 6 month wait. It was possible to jump ahead a couple of months if they thought you might have a brain tumor, but even here in America if you go to a teaching hospital with no insurance and they think you might have a brain tumor they will scan you within a day or two and eat the costs.

We will have to do with less to provide a public option which pays less and covers all.

Let's start listing the things we're willing to give up. I'll start.

I'm ok with bringing my own towels. After my first labor and delivery experience, I happily brought mine...even in the US.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. I'd give up private hospital rooms.

And hospitals with grand pianos with performers in their lobbies and with valet service.

[jgraz]

2. I'm willing to give up poor people dying in overcrowded emergency rooms.

And anything else that leads to it.

[phantom power]

3. Good question, but will that even be necessary?

the reason we pay so damned much now is the insurance industry. Take that out of the loop, and we can get what we have now for less.

One of the ways this debate gets framed is "ZOMG, we'll have a european standard of health care." Now on the one hand, it's good to point out "well what's so wrong with that?" Then again, it also makes me think "well, is there some reason we can't do even better?"

[busymom]

25. Yes

The technology for all of these scanners and high tech equipment is very expensive. This isn't just about the insurance industry. The government will pay hospitals less money for use of this technology and the experts that are trained to use them which means we will be able to afford less. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but when hospitals have less money, they spend less money and those cuts will be felt across the board. It will mean fewer scans, tests, private rooms, semi-private rooms etc.

[CreekDog]

51. do Medicare patients do without these things? noooo

and that is paid for by the government in large part.

i think you are weighing your personal experience with health care, perhaps years ago, more than the current reasons for high healthcare costs and by doing so, you've reached a flawed conclusion.

[nichomachus]

4. Frequently asked questions: Single-payer health care

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php

[avaistheone1]

44. That is a great source of information.

:thumbsup:

[ecstatic]

5. don't worry! It's magic

Everything will work out somehow, without concessions! Yay!

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Guess who sells the mal-practice insurance? Guess why it's so expensive?

My 3 kids were home births. All went very well and were less then 1/4 of the out of pocket cost of a hospital birth, The only problem was with our first. After delivery the placenta was slow to come and it was ragged. We had to transport to the hospital and the oBGYN wouldn't even get up and come and check out my wife.

The nurse gave him shit about it. Later we heard from a health care practitioneer we know that this "doctor" whined about us at some medical conference about what an imposition is when a mid wife does a hospital transport. if my wife had bled to death you can bet I would have sued his ass for as much as I could get. How lame is that?

Something like 5% of all doctors are responisble for 65% of all mal-practice suits. The medical profession does a poor job of policing bad news doctors and that costs everyone.

I'll give up insurance forms and redundant high tech million dollar testing equipment in every hospital with in 5 miles of each other. If I have to go across town for a test, i'll live.

[dgibby]

13. Whenever I had problems getting a Dr. to come see a patient,

I'd just say, "So let me make sure I understand you. You're refusing to come examine this patient. I'm asking you this because I want to make sure I'm quoting you correctly in the nurse's notes." Worked every time!

[John Q. Citizen]

19. He was at home and wouldn't come in. We heard a few nurses giving him shit in

the morning when he finally got there.

And I don't get why they hate mid wives so much. It's like if a dentist slipped and put the drill through your cheek, they'd sew you up and not whine. But let a mid wife decide it's in her clients interest to go to the hospital and they treat both the mom and the mid wife like shit.

Our mid wife was at a friend's birth and labor dragged on and on, and she brought her in and the obgyn on duty was a woman. She started insulting the midwife and the mom, calling the mom stupid, and the mom ordered the obgyn out of her room. The mom asked for someone else and the admin made a show of calling other doctors, but they wouldn't come in, and the admin talked the mom into takinhg the original obg back, She comes back in the room and starts sceaming at the mom and mid wife again, so the mom orders her out again. They finally got an ER doctor to deliver and he asked the mid wife for advice (since she had 25 years experience and hundreds of births and the doctor was years out of med school) She showed him how to support the perineum so he didn't have to cut, and he thought that was really amazing, really cool.

Any way, one would think they'd like the business instead of being so nasty. I said they should have a neon sign flashing in the window, "Free coffee and tea for mid wives who transport here." i mean why not? Imagine a new mid wife not transporting because they were afraid they be screamed at insulted and abused. It could be tragic.

[Cleita]

7. When a friend of mine had her child at Kaiser Permanente, she was

kicked out the next day even though she had to go home to four other children who needed care. (Hubby had to go back to work as soon as she was home from the hospital, his company's rules on "maternity" leave for guys.) I suppose that was their way of saving on towels and linens too. Another friend whose husband lost his job and his health care before their baby was born found a doctor who delivered in his office, kept the mother four or five hours recuperating and then sent both home. He did it for a reduced fee. They had to pay cash up front too. There is no perfect system, but being able to provide health care for all is a goal worth striving for. I would like to have some of our Canadian DUers, who have had babies under their system, weigh in on this. The conditions you are describing sound like they occurred decades ago and not today.

[Spazito]

24. Okay, here's a Canadian weighing in....

34 years ago, my first child was born and I had a private room for my labor, towels and all accessories with the exception, I think, of a television. Once my daughter was born, I shared a room with one other patient who had also just delivered. Again, towels and all accessories including a telephone, excluding, I think, a television. I was kept there for 7 days after delivery. My experience with my second child was identical except I was supposed to stay only 4 days, insisted on going home in 3. (Hindsight made me wish I had stayed as long as they would have me, lol)

My daughter, the one from my first example, now has three children, each labor was in a private room with all of the above, including a television this time (may have cost $2.00 a day though). Upon delivery, she returned to the same room and the infant came with her, she cared for the baby from birth. She was kept in the hospital 5 days for her first and third, because they were C-sections. She stayed 2 days with her second, was supposed to stay 3.

Neither I nor my daughter received any bill for this except, in my daughter's case, the $2.00 a day for the television I think was there.

[Cleita]

26. That's so much better than the average maternity care here and even if

insured by company or union, they still have co-pays and limits that the insurance companies demand.

[John Q. Citizen]

55. I'll have what that lady's having please.

[Spazito]

59. LOL! n/t

[Blue Meany]

8. I'm willing to allow Senators & Congresscritters to continue to

have the healthcare that the rest of us will have, even though many of them don't deservee it.

[CreekDog]

52. What kind of health care plan do you think most Senators and Congresspeople have?

do you think it's free?

are there any copayments?

does it cover everything?

do any Americans that aren't wealthy have such a plan?

i find it a fascinating topic and would love to know more about it.

[abluelady]

9. Some of Us Won't Give Up Anything

Without health insurance we don't go to doctors or hospitals. Knowing everyone will get medical care is worth giving up the
"concierge type" hospitals we have in this country.

A friend of mine recently had knee replacement surgery. The first day out of bed she walked to a dining room with white tablecoths, flowers and waiters. I would certainly be willing to give that up in any hospital.

I'm not sure even with single payer, national healthcare, we would have to wait in America. Why have all those hundreds of machines sitting there not being used. There is no need for every hospital in every city in this country to have every type of machine. The marketing of hospitals is a big problem here. I think America is one of only two or three countries that advertise medicines. We don't need to be paying for big Pharma to advertise. Why should we tell drs. what to prescribe because of a commercial. I would hope no doctor would give me the purple pill because I asked for it!

We are lucky enough and innovative enough to use what all the other westernized countries have and make it even better without it costing us an arm and leg. We may not manufacture cars but we are terrific at ideas.

[grantcart]

20. I'm willing to give up the fear I have every night when I go to sleep that my kids will

come down with something and we can't go to a doctor.

[erebusman]

10. I'll give up single payer healthcare for my senators to start with,

Especially until they get single payer for the rest of us.

I'll give up breast enhancements.
I'll give up viagra.
I'll give up name-brand pharma's for generics.
I'll give up expensive patents on drugs in the name of affordable generics.
I'll give up expensive patents on new experimental drugs that may be less effective than homeopathic remedies - but are always recommended above the homeopathic remedies because the Dr's Pharma stock sure isn't going to go up if you just eat healthy instead of take pill X for the rest of your life.
I'll give up monopolistic manufacturing holds on medication in the US for better oversight for less expensive drugs from other countries (Canada for one example).
I'll give up being 33rd in the world in infant mortality rates.
I'll give up the FDA for an organization that actually is interested in our health instead of protecting pharma and other industries from lawsuits.
I'll give up corporate funded medical research for public funded research.

Most importantly, I'll give up medicine thats for profit instead of for health.

Yes I know you can make arguments about any of the above points - but I assure I can make counter arguments too. Just saying! :)

[DrToast]

11. Higher taxes

[busymom]

34. for everyone or just those who earn more money?

[John Q. Citizen]

12. Canada spends about 40% per capita what we do. Could you imagine if they spent the same per capita?

They would be getting limousine rides to their doctors appointments.

Canada has the second most expensive health care system in the world.

[safeinOhio]

15. I'd give up 10% on the top bracket.

[jberryhill]

14. AARP /nt

[Vinca]

16. All I ask is for a lousy clinic I can go to and see a doctor . . . any doctor.

I don't need my own, personal physician. All I want is a person who is well educated and wants to be working in the clinic. A Physician's Assistant will do most of the time. If I need to be in a hospital, all I ask for is a clean bed and a blanket, a meal once in awhile and pain medication. If I need surgery I don't want to be thrown out the door as soon as I wake up from anesthesia (like many are today with their wonderful health insurance). I don't ask much . . . just the basics provided by intelligent, caring people. That would be way more than I've got right now.

[vaberella]

22. Then support the public choice and make sure the idiots who are writing the bill do it properly.

Currently Kennedy is writing one, Baucus, and Schumer. We can't let them give a nuetered(sp?) public option. We need a good one to crowd out insurance companies which will lead to universal health care.

[old mark]

17. I'd be willing to give up the Republican Party.

Actually, have all the politicians in the same system as the real people - get them out of the spectacular super-system they have now, and in with everyone else.
Stop giving them perks and treat them like real people instead of princes. Will save money to be used for health care for us.

mark

[grantcart]

18. lol ruined the keyboard etc etc

[ZombieHorde]

21. The Iraq war.

[rockymountaindem]

33. Yep. Best answer in this thread

If we spent all that money on health care, or even just a fraction of it, I'm sure we could have a high quality of universal care. Most of these compromises would probably not be necessary. I mean, $12 billion per week buys a lot of towels.

[billyoc]

23. I'd give up the jobs of everyone that works for health insurance companies.

The savings in administration and management costs would pay for THE WHOLE PROGRAM.

[IndianaGreen]

27. I'll give up having an accountant second guess my doctor's diagnosis and treatment

which is what is happening now under the current system.

Medicare for all!

[Overseas]

28. 46 million Americans are willing to give up dying early because they can't afford to see a doctor

It is VERY CONVENIENT to compare the care those who are fortunate enough to get the most expensive insurance and hospital care in the world to the care gotten by average citizens in other countries.

But you left out the most important comparison-- Fancy equipment and private rooms for some care if you are fortunate enough to have insurance versus
NEVER HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT THE COST OF GOING TO THE DOCTOR OR GETTING SICK !

I have lived with national health insurance before. The care wasn't glamorous but I GOT COMPETENT CARE without worrying for a moment about how I would pay for it all. That is a deeply secure feeling. Very different from being in the USA where you have to worry about huge medical bills even when you have coverage.

Millions of Americans are willing to give up the terror they feel about being hurt or getting sick because they have no coverage.

Millions of insured Americans are willing to give up the fear of bankruptcy in case they are injured seriously or get a serious illness.

Millions of Americans are willing to give up being denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

Millions of insured Americans are willing to give up being rushed out of the hospital early because our hospitals are so expensive.

[Thothmes]

29. What the posters (except one) seem to not want to give

up is a portion of their incomes in the form of taxes to pay for a single payer healthcare.

[Cleita]

31. What many people don't realize is that the money which goes into

insurance could pay for health care for everyone when administered by one paying agency (single payer). I don't think new taxes are needed but a redistribution on how they are collected and, of course, telling the for profit insurers and other parasitical health care industries to take a hike.

[Thothmes]

37. I am not so sure

The conventional wisdom is that nearly 50 million people in this country do not have health insurance. The ideal single payer plan covers all medical (except some elective) dental, optical, psychiatric, etc. This will be a very costly program. The government will have to set up a program to collect the funds from the tax payers. They will have to collect, in taxes, at least the equivalent of all of the current insurance premiums paid by those with health insurance now. They will also have to collect taxes to cover the new 50 million participants who have no insurance now. The taxes they collect will have to be sufficient to cover every medical/dental need for every man, women and child in the country. That will be a big pile of money. I do not think that by simply cutting out the profit and overhead expenses of health insurance providers will be sufficient to pay for the program. Eliminating the profit and overhead expenses of the health insurers will definitely help pay for the plan, but I do not see it as covering the total cost of the program. JMO.

[Cleita]

43. I don't know where you get your information, probably the insurance

industry and big PhRMA because those are their propaganda talking points that you are spewing. The fact is that we spend in round figures about $7,000 per person in health care in this country and still 40% are uninsured. Our neighbor to the north Canada is able to deliver the same quality of health care to all its citizens for half of what we spend per capita. It's been documented by various organizations who compile these figures including the US government. Yes, we would be getting the insurance money and other money to cover this from the same sources that are paying for the disfunctional health plans that we have today. There are two links on my signature. One is to Congressman John Conyers' website and the other to the Physicians For a National Health Plan website. Both websites document your concerns in detail with facts not opinion.

[Thothmes]

61. I do not pay any attention to what the Insurance industry

and big pharm have to say. We are going to pay for national single payer by any mean possible besides calling for direct taxes to support it. Which by the way is how it is done in Canada, Germany, Great Briton, and France and all of those other countries that people like to cite as a reason for the single payer plan. There everyone pays taxes into the system to support it. But not here. We will repeal the Bush tax cuts, we will tax the wealthy, we will stream line the system, and the ever popular we will appropriate to support the program (which is ok if the Dems never loose Congress). But we will never say that we have to tax to support a single payer health care. In my opinion, people will have to be directly taxed to support the program. How much will that be, I do not have a clue. But, I have no problems paying 5%to 8% in taxes to support the program. Do you?

[Cleita]

62. 60% of our health care is already delivered through the government.

Programs like Medicare, Medicaid, CHAMPUS, the VA, SCHIPS and many others. It's not going to be a problem to pull all these programs together and administer them under one umbrella. The big problem is to get Wall Street to remove their greedy finger out of the pie.

[dflprincess]

49. Even with a new tax we're apt to break even and some people might have more money left over

Single payer means we won't be paying money for premiums and people who are currently stuck with HSAs or other forms of high out of pocket insurance will see a savings.

[MasonJar]

30. I am not willing to give up anything that our Congresspeople get and I

am not willing for one single citizen of the USA to get less than that which we, the citizens, provide to our elected reps in Congress.

[Lars39]

32. Teaching hospitals aren't always willing to eat the cost of scans.

My brother is needing a PET scan right now and can't get one without insurance.

[busymom]

35. I actually support some form of single payer...

but I'm going into this with my eyes wide open. I have lived and worked in europe and I know the good, the bad and the ugly about the administration of their healthcare plans. Too many people here see this as a panacea and it isn't. It is absolutely necessary that hard working Americans have access to health care. Everyone though, needs to pay into it...not just those people at the top of the income scale. Many of them have worked quite hard for their money too....

We all have to pitch in AND it won't be the healthcare system that we know today.....hard decisions will need to be made. Single payer will not give all Americans the bells and whistles. It will provide just the basics.

[Cleita]

36. There is no "some form of single payer". It is, or it isn't.

What you described in your other post about your experiences in Germany and N. Ireland was a system of national health care, neither of them were single payer universal health care, which is we are looking at.

[harun]

38. I'm willing to give up money. Those extras cost more, I am willing to pay more for them.

[flpoljunkie]

39. We have plenty of hospital rooms, plenty of MRI, CT machines. Let's use them.

BYOT, if you like.

Why not Medicare for all? You will notice that Republicans do not criticize Medicare.

[izzybeans]

40. Higher taxes.

[slackmaster]

41. Full, unconditional implementation of the Metric System

Something that is long overdue.

[grantcart]

42. slower nurse response time

About a year ago we moved my mother from a private care facility (beautiful new building) to a facility housing only medicare patients (old building no private rooms).

There is no question that this public facility gives better care in terms of nurse attention and response time, than the private facility that looked good, had a big expensive bill and private rooms.

[avaistheone1]

45. I'd give up any credence to the idiots who say single payer can not happen in the US.

[Jakes Progress]

46. Just give me

what the my senator gets.

[anonymous171]

47. America can do it better, don't worry.

We have a history of exceeding others' expectations.

[Jakes Progress]

48. The question really is: What do you think

you should get so that those with less money or influence get less?

Yes, we have to pay for our health care. If we want better care, we pay more in taxes.

Take all the money spent on health care - private insurance, public emergency room care, business contributions to insurance, out of pocket and co-pay, plus the huge profits for insurance and pharma. You get a figure considerably higher than what is spent on health care in the countries you mentioned. The problem is that our wealthy pay little or nothing of their own and get private suites in the hospitals with hot and cold running nurses. The poor suffer through what they can and clog emergency rooms for what should be taken care of with a doctor's visit. The rest of us pay taxes, insurance profits, and get by okay. Equal would be better. Divide the total spent for health care and we would see higher levels than available in other countries.

[joeglow3]

50. The biggest thing I have not seen addressed is research hospitals

I read that the 4 largest research hospitals in the US produce more innovations than any other single country in the world (and there are hundreds of research hospitals in the US). How much of this is the US eating the cost of innovations for the benefit of the world? How much of this would be cut?

[Cleita]

54. Most research hospitals are affiliated with universities so I don't think

their funding would be affected since most of the research is funded with grants.

[dpbrown]

53. I'm willing to give up private health care companies gouging profit out of the system

So that universal single-payer health care will cover everyone cheaper and more efficiently.

[tabbycat31]

56. hospital advertising

I can't even turn on the radio without hearing ads for hospitals. Is this really necessary? There's several within a 20 mile radius.

[Touchdown]

57. I'd be willing to give up health insurance companies.

... but I will soooooooo miss them.

:sarcasm:

[WinkyDink]

58. Let's give up the idea that "billionaire" is a viable option for a citizen.

[quidam56]

60. My father gave up his life because of

what is deemed, defended and supported in East Tennessee and southwest Virginia as "the acceptable standards of health care" It's a shame to see health care go the way of Wall Street. http://www.wisecountyissues.com Profit Care comes ahead of Patient Care.