The Other Woman

[realFedUp]

The other woman that Edwards cheated
on was Hillary Clinton. Interviewers seem
to miss the point that this wasn’t just a private
affair and matter but influenced the outcome
of this last Presidential race. He cheated on
his wife while running for the Democratic
nominee for President, knowing that it was
likely to become public knowledge. Many
voters originally thought he was morally honest
and voted for him in the primaries: votes that
would have gone to other candidates and most
likely Hillary. This seems like such old news,
but Mrs. Edward’s new book and interviews
bring it back into discussion.
Elizabeth wasn’t the only victim and frankly
because she supported his run even while
knowing about his affair makes me feel less sorry for her.

[sandnsea]

1. Obama would have won CA

with Edwards voters.

The victims of both Edwards were those voters, who game their time, money and votes to a fraud.

[knowbody0]

2. to judge her,

you'd have to have burried a son, have terminal cancer and been betrayed by your husband publicly.

John's the liar.

[Laelth]

3. I must disagree.

Edwards was my first choice. Obama was my second choice, not Clinton.

For what that's worth.

:dem:

-Laelth

[question everything]

49. Edwards was my first choice, too

but Hillary was my second.

[Genevieve]

4. My first choice was Edwards, second choice was Obama.

[polichick]

5. He was unfair to all of us, not just Hillary...

Actually, I think many of his votes would have gone to Obama ~ as they did once he dropped out.

[realFedUp]

6. It's not surprising that DU supported Edwards and Obama....

I remember that period of time,
but it would be truthful to say
that the race would have been
different had Edwards not been
in the race.

[polichick]

7. There were a lot of Hillary supporters here too...

It's hard to say how things would have been different without Edwards ~ maybe Biden would have gotten his early votes, or one of the others.

[realFedUp]

8. My argument stands that the race would have changed.

We can't say now how many Edwards
supporters would have instead voted for
Hillary over Obama. At that time,
she was the front runner.

[Genevieve]

12. You really don't know that for sure.

All the Edwards supporters I know turned their support to Obama when Edwards dropped out.

[karynnj]

20. At the beginning, the first decision was Hillary or not Hillary for many people

More important than conjecture though is that this was polled in both Iowa and NH - more went to Obama as their second choice.

[Captain Hilts]

9. It's really hard to say. nt

[sufrommich]

10. My parents were Edwards supporters, their second choice

was Obama. I voted for Hillary in the primary, she wasn't a "victim" then or now.

[elleng]

11. Don't know why you said,

'votes that
would have gone to other candidates and most
likely Hillary.'

Thats a bit of a jump, imo.

[MissDeeds]

22. I agree

I was an Edwards supporter and don't know of one other Edwards supporter who would have gone with HRC. Not one.

[elleng]

27. I'm sure there were some,

but there were several others around at the time, like Joe Biden!

[CTyankee]

34. Me. Edwards quit right before Super Tuesday, my primary.

My husband, a huge HRC supporter, talked to me at length about supporting a woman for president, HRC's obvious smarts and abilities, and he won me over. I voted for her in the CT primary because I wanted to vote for a woman for president before I died (I'm in my late 60s). As the primary debates and campaigns wore on I grew less happy with HRC. MOstly, I was dismayed with some of her talk in the debates and with my uncomfortable feeling that her campaign was in disarray. I began to admire Obama more and more and so did my husband.

[MissDeeds]

36. Of course there are voters

who would have, and did, turn to HRC. I'm just saying that in my circle of acquaintances, none did.

[CTyankee]

37. I'm in ultra liberal New Haven. There were plenty of HRC supporters here

who did what I did, women I knew who were strong feminists, pro choice, very much to the political Left. So I was kinda surprised when all this PUMA stuff started. We had no divide here the way it was portrayed in the media.

But I realize New Haven is in a special category compared to much of the rest of the country...

[question everything]

51. You may not have read DU posts on Jan 30 and 31, 2008

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4334440

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4312690

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4285679

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4287022

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4286672

And many more. Yes, DU was Obama territory from day one, but many Edwards supporters did go for Hillary.

[MissDeeds]

56. See post #36 n/t

[firedupdem]

13. Gotta disagree with this one. n/t

[WeDidIt]

14. Fallacious argument based upon supposition

You've no idea how races would ahve turned out without Edwards.

None whatsoever.

This is nothing but a primary rehash.

Stop chewing on those sour grapes.

[Genevieve]

16. Yes, it's all John Edwards' fault that Hillary Clinton is not the president.

:sarcasm:

[Mist]

15. Seems like most Edwards supporters moved to Obama when

Edwards dropped out. I did.

[karynnj]

17. Not exactly,

Second choice was polled in both Iowa and NH, Edwards voters favored Obama as their second choice by wide margins. The idea that it was HRC was from Mark Penn in an interview. He incidentally started as a pollster - he knows he is lying, but that should surprise no one.

[WeDidIt]

19. If anything, it would have been all over in New Hampshire

New Hampshire was so close, it would ahve probably tipped the balance to Obama and that would have been it. Game over.

[karynnj]

21. I think, it would have made her the underdog

and one thing that was clear was that when they were down, the Clintons really tended to make mistakes - still given the fact that she started out so far ahead and had the name recognition advantage - it likely would have taken until SuperTuesday.

Not to mention, Obama was slightly hurt by the NH debate, where people said that Obama and Edwards ganged up on her - while Obama was the least aggressive of the three.

[digidigido]

18. I respectfully disagree, I think most of the country was tired of a ruling elite

and that while Hillary was a strong candidate, most people did not want a repeat of the embarrassment
of Bill in the Whitehouse. I mean really, if he could have kept it in his pants we never would have had
Bush. His affairs doomed Gore's candidacy.

[DrToast]

23. WTF? Why would the votes have gone to Hillary?

By the way, YOU'RE WRONG: http://www.pollster.com/blogs/the_publication_of_a_new.php

[Irishonly]

24. I supported Edwards

After he dropped, I didn't support anyone for a couple of weeks. I then supported Obama.

[Colobo]

25. Your assumption is baseless.

[adoraz]

26. Sorry, but you're wrong.

Most of Edward's supporters supported Obama once he left the race, and Edwards did not even endorse anyone until the race was basically over....

[Honeycombe8]

28. WRONG. In the Iowa caucuses, when Edwards' people didn't have enuf

voters to stay valid, and those folks had to disperse and join other groups (the two other groups with enuf voters were Obama's and Clinton's), they mainly joined Obama's.

This was reported at the time, and I saw this myself as I watched the IA caucuses on CSPAN.

I'm not sure about Biden's voters...whose group they joined.

[Raine]

29. Edwards was my first choice, Obama my second

so for me Edwards didn't have any effect on Hillary as a choice. Edwards dropped out before my primary (CA) so my vote went to Obama.

[FrenchieCat]

30. There was a discussion on this "Did Edwards hurt Hillary's chance?"

just a couple of days ago!

The famous, What If Edwards Had Dropped Out?, question is answered by Pollster
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8401709

[Solomon]

31. If your theory is correct, and I don't believe it is, then perhaps we

should thank Edwards.

We got the right man in the end. According to you, if not for that, we would have gotten somebody else.

:evilgrin:

[Solomon]

32. delete

dupe.

[cwydro]

33. Interesting take.

He certainly had no business whatsoever running.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. He harmed the process

And of course, he defined all politicians who get on a high horse about religion demanding they be homophobic as hypocritical liars who only bring up teh gay to distract from their own corruption. The harm was not to a specific rival but to the whole enchilada. Edwards was the last politician who will ever get a hint of benefit of the doubt in regards to his bigoted attitudes toward gay people. It is now clear that politicians will gladly slander any minority group simply to make themselves look 'better' and more 'Christian'.

[SeaLyons]

38. Alls well that ends well...

I too supported Hillary in the primaries, but I am thrilled with how things turned out. I don't think Edwards impacted the outcome whatsoever.

[Lucky 13]

39. Hillary would have lost anyway. Why always make her the "victim"??

There is a good analysis piece on Huffington Post which explains why Hillary would have lost whether Edwards was in the race or not. This whole Hillary as the victim bullshit must end. She ran a terrible, over-priced, poorly strategized campaign. So let's not be confused. The only one who lost the election for Hillary, was Hillary.

[Arkansas Granny]

40. That's one of those things that we'll never know. I originally supported Edwards, then Hillary.

You're unlikely to get any real idea from responses here on DU because many posters who supported Hillary left this board or were tombstoned during and after the primaries.

[blm]

41. and those of us pissed that HRC stayed on Bush's side from 2001-2006 are still GLAD she and Bill

are not back in the WH to continue the coverups for BushInc.

[abq e streeter]

42. HRC was my LAST choice ( Obama next to last BTW-too into "playing nice" with repubs)

I'm a very pissed former Edwards supporter but would have thrown my support anywhere but HRC ( but absolutely would have voted for her had she been the nominee; with rare exception, the worst Democrat is better than the best republican, although too often , not by much) . Your declaration that former Edwards supporter's votes would have gone to "most likely Hillary" is completely unsupported speculation, and among the Edwards supporters I knew personally, very few ( including myself) were anything but disgusted at the campaign she ran. If this is rehashing the primaries, so be it. I look at it as the necessary and ongoing process of studying history and hopefully learning from it. From that point of view, your right to speculate is valid, but I'm just saying your conclusion isn't.

[ChiciB1]

44. Hillary Was ALWAYS My Last Choice! And Yes, I Supported Edwards, But

Hillary was NEVER considered. I was going to sit the whole election out, but ended up going for Obama when Palin came on scene!

[abq e streeter]

46. Glad you didn't sit it out

especially in a close state like Florida, ( as is, often, New Mexico) I felt that no matter who the nominee was, we didn't have the luxury of taking a chance on another rightwinger appointing cabinet members and especially supreme court justices, and would have voted for HRC had it come to that, no matter how disgusted ( answer: plenty) I'd become. Still would've been measurably better than McCain, with or without caribou barbie.

[ChiciB1]

50. For Sure.... But Now, Even Obama Is Giving Me Heartburn! n/t

[alphafemale]

54. Yep. Most people had either Hillary as the first choice...

or were in the anybody BUT camp. I certainly was, not so much that I personally dislike her, but I now a sizable percentage of Americans DO actively dislike her. I think giving her the nomination would've handed the nomination to the pugs.

[rvablue]

43. I voted for Hillary in the primary and I totally disagree with you.

Maybe one day some statistician and/or pollster will look at all of the data and ask some questions and have a better idea based on facts rather than conjecture.

But, I just didn't see/feel that Edwards voters would have -- for the large part -- all voted for Hillary.

Why? Because look at what happened when Edwards did leave the race? Obama surged.

So, maybe all of this talk is about Iowa specifically. That if Edwards wasn't in the race, Hillary would have won Iowa.

I still think Obama would have won Iowa.

And while I supported and voted for Hillary in the primary, I don't feel for a moment that she was a victim of Edwards. Not one bit.

[Captain Hilts]

59. Same here. nt

[Starry Messenger]

45. Primary RE-

Get out of the past people, please. These posts are just about as useful as the ones saying "You must want McCain to win." The primary is over, the election is over. Let's move on folks. Come out of the hills. We won.

[abq e streeter]

47. Valid point you make; I look at it though at this point,as analyzing history, which is equally valid

[Flying Dream Blues]

48. I was a wishy washy Edwards supporter, loved Obama but was afraid

he couldn't win and I wanted a Dem above all in the WH. After Edwards left, I went all in on Obama and never looked back.

[jaysunb]

52. K&R

:hi:

[Generator]

53. Aw poor little Hillary

always getting suckered by those charming Southern good looking boys.

YES, I agree -goddamn to hell that dying Elizabeth Edwards. Who the fuck is she to be politically ambitious. That's only for CLINTONS. AS if Ms. Clinton and her ilk haven't fucked up the country enough with their "third way" DLC NAFTA bullshit.

YEAH, it's always really about Hillary not anyone else in the world. God, you Hillary supporters are freaks,man FREAKS.

[Arugula Latte]

55. Hillary was always my third choice, and the 3rd choice of many other Edwards people.

I went back and forth between Obama and Edwards, and then Edwards made my choice easy. Same with my husband. Same with some other people I know.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

57. water under the bridge now

there are plenty of 'what ifs'

[Beacool]

58. It wasn't just Edwards.

The media did her far more "wrong" than Edwards. Their fawning adoration for Obama and lack of vetting early on in the primaries, plus their relentless sexist remarks were far more damaging. It took an SNL skit for the MSM to finally start asking a few hard questions. Regardless of who one supported in this past election, the media has lost any sense of objectivity and professionalism as a whole. There are some exceptions, but too few and far between. Too many pundits, too few Edward R. Murrows.

[jbnow]

62. What Obama vetting was undone? Many things

were looked at...including Rezko, Wright and Ayers but there was no there there.

They then came up in skewed ways and the press was hardly showing fawning adoration. They went with the hype.

I also read some older articles (early in primary season) about how the press didn't like Obama or his campaign much, he didn't woo them. They did tend to be impressed with his crowds and speeches but focused on just the hype part of them too and let the "no details" meme live on...some articles pointed out the specifics that were in his speechesand town halls but they addressed the poetry part.

I think the press being adoring of Obama is one of the big myths.

[scheming daemons]

60. Actually, when Edwards dropped out, most of his voters gravitated to Obama

Hillary would've lost by even more and earlier.

[dionysus]

61. lol

:spray:
woulda coulda shoulda...

[wisteria]

63. I beleive polls showed that Edward voters leaned towards Obama- not Clinton.n/t

[AngryAmish]

64. Primaries Understood Mostly Alldone

[JimGinPA]

65. +1