I'm surprised DUers can't see thru this bluff that "Pelosi Knew" - re: torture

[LynneSin]

Republicans are evil people that will do anything and everything when their backs are up against the wall. This past week we saw 'Internal DOJ memos' that talked about investigations into torture not happening (in a nutshell) but that NYTimes article buried the fact that the memos were written in December of 2008 - which was a month before Obama took over the White House.

Now the republicans are going after Pelosi claiming her and other democrats knew about the torture and were briefed on it.

DON'T BUY INTO THIS BLUFF!!!

Even if it was true, remember that this was during a time that REPUBLICANS were in charge of Congress. Pelosi was the Minority Leader. Did they know - who knows, perhaps they did. But the thing was - it was REPUBLICANS that decided it was ok to use Torture lead by George W. Bush himself.

Republicans would love nothing more than for us democrats to have short term memory and go after Pelosi while forgetting that it was republicans that made Torture 'legal'. Just like republicans are hoping that people will forget that the economy was tanking BEFORE Obama got into the White House.

I'm not asking you to change your opinion on Pelosi. For those of you attacking her, you probably would have anyways on another issue. But don't lose focus of who the real blame is and that is the Republicans. If a few democrats, including Pelosi, fall because of the prosecutions we might do to republicans then so be it. But REPUBLICANS created this, not Nancy Pelosi or any democrat.

[TheKentuckian]

1. The threat is idle

We'd chuck her right under the bus.

[LakeSamish706]

2. At this point I would like to see a full honest investigation and let the chips fall where they may.

[ShortnFiery]

4. Yeah, Nancy is all about "self-protection" ... what? It was a bedtimes story.

:crazy: Nancy Pelosi = Gutless Wonder Extraordinaire. :(

[vaberella]

7. Turley is that you?

Because that is a straight quote out of his mouth.

[LakeSamish706]

14. Is it a correct quote though? I think it is! n/t

[vaberella]

18. Hence my point. I don't know if you're Turley or not. n/t

[LakeSamish706]

25. No, but I wish I had his credentials.... sigh, but do not. n/t

[Andy823]

19. I agree.

Unless we want to by hypocrites like the republicans, I see let the investigations begin, and see what comes out. If the dems are innocent, it will come out, if they were guilty of anything, that too will come out. It's time to clean out congress, and it shouldn't matter which side the corrupt are on, get rid of them!

[BOSSHOG]

3. I have in my hands a list of every democrat who approved of waterboarding

Can be attributed to any wackjob "patriotic" republican in congress.

[ShortnFiery]

6. It doesn't matter. KNOWING about is not the CRIME - Just SHAME for inaction.

Damn our democrats if they can't handle The Truth.

Kucinich has been "speaking out" but the others only care about covering their political asses.

Well, decisions have consequence. Make Kucinich SPEAKER. :-)

Hey, I can dream can't I?

[vaberella]

11. Actually no one has denounced what Pelosi said.

Pelosi said that there were talks about the "possible" actions taken and she said she was against it and they would find nothing otherwise. So she was briefed on actions they "might" use. However Pelosi said and no one has said otherwise that she didn't know things were going on and secondly, she never stood by and did nothing about it.

[ShortnFiery]

17. Yes, Nancy covered her ass. The GOP is just flailing about. However, let's not adore her?

I have a lot to dislike about Pelosi but she's "spot on" in the fact that the Bush Administration did NOT tell WHEN they employed these techniques.

[emulatorloo]

13. LOL n/t

[vaberella]

5. Turley says she knew...so she must have. I stand by Pelosi.

Many a DUer stands by Turley so if he says she lies...then she's a liar.

[ShortnFiery]

10. We ALL know she knew. She KNEW that being briefed on these techniques was just "for fun?"

She KNEW but she cared most about her career.

BTW when are we going to be FREED from her daughter's Documentaries?!? = Nepotism at it's most boring. :eyes:

[vaberella]

16. Actually no.

She said she didn't know that any techniques were being used. And she said she spoke out against those actions in the meeting. Secondly, she has said in the past and everyone who has a clue knows this...she can't talk about what was talked about in the briefings. So give me a damn break. It wasn't until they declassified shit that we NOW know some of the details of the briefing.

[ShortnFiery]

26. How did Kucinich know. Oh! He read the Newpapers. Damn poor Nancy doesn't read them.

:eyes:

If Nancy Pelosi had an ounce of humility in her dark heart, she would "accept responsibility" for being briefed and say that she was astounded that they would EVEN CONSIDER using these techniques.

Feet of clay. :(

[emulatorloo]

12. How does Turley know. Was he in the room?

Actually I think he said "if" she knew.

"IF" is a pretty big word, even though it is only 2 letters.

[vaberella]

21. Did you hear him on Rachel's show last night? She said her excuse was weak at best.

And that it would never hold water. I think that cancels out "if" and that's 'if' he used "if"...which I don't remember him using.

[ShortnFiery]

28. She could have short circuited the criticism by not initially giving the impression that she

was "above it all."

That is, when you are briefed that our government is contemplating A WAR CRIME, then you should, when FREED of the obligation to stay silent, convey that you were aghast that it was even being considered ... instead of initially saying "they didn't say that they'd use it."

There should be NO SURPRISE that they would use it.

[ShortnFiery]

22. She did say that The Torture Techniques were briefed to them, BUT they also promised to

TELL THEM WHEN they would, in fact, be employed.

Nancy's covered because they did NOT say that these techniques were being PRESENTLY employed.

Hey, I think she's willfully naive but yes, she's cool on a legal standing.

[emulatorloo]

8. It is Because Cheney and the Bush Admin have always been scrupulously honest and above board

The Repuplicans have never lied before.

For example, I remember Cheney's right hand man Scooter Libby being convicted for telling the truth.

[depakid]

9. Simply an attempt to spread the blame and point fingers

They tried it with the financial crisis- blaming minority homeowners and Democrats with Fredie and Fannie.

SOP for the right wing.

[emulatorloo]

20. That's a good analogy.

Thanks for reminding me.

[vaberella]

24. And Clinton too. n/t

[depakid]

27. Difference is, Clinton actually had some role in the policies

Worst that could be said of Pelosi is that she knew and couldn't or didn't do anything to stop the administration once she had some authority in 2007.

[LynneSin]

32. +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1

I'm not saying Pelosi isn't responsible or should not be investigated. But she's chumped change compared to the blood on the hands of the Republicans and especially the Bush Regime & their goons.

Chump change isn't going to resolve this issue - we need the ones in charge. Don't let the bright, shiny objects tossed by the desperate republicans distract us!

[bdamomma]

15. there needs to be an investigation into all of these crimes.

repigs are involved in this too, very short memories, and they will never stop. They are rats trapped in a corner.

[LakeSamish706]

23. I suspect Dennis Haster, Tom Delay and who knows what others were involved...

in knowing about this.... Agree, we need investigations plain and simple.

[OHdem10]

29. This is not to condemn anyone but I find it interesting that anyone

could believe that the Democrats were clueless.

First, our Foreign Policy is one policy no matter how much one might
wish otherwise. Therefore, there is no way the CIA would have left
themselves exposed. They brief both parties so when there is fall out
they can say--we made the important people aware.

Please refresh your memories--Democrats on the Hill never never stood against the war or Bush until the country began to turn against the war.

Finally, if the CIA only briefed the GOP, then the Democratic Party
should have been screaming all over DC--we are not included. They
would have had a moral obligation to do this. ( Attack on our Democracy.} They did not do this. Thus, I have assumed all along they at least the top Dems and some Committee Chairman had the information.

Frankly, I do not see the problem. The Dems are making it a problem
by denial.

[Captain Hilts]

30. Thinking critically or asking 'who benefits' from a release of info is asking too much here. It's

all about personality here.

[bdamomma]

31. we need to really push for investigations join the ACLU

and if anyone did not see this thread yesterday, this will make your BP boil.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3863925

and this one too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5614774


there is so much BS going on and WE THE PEOPLE must say enough.

[rustydog]

33. Fine, Pelosi knew. first we investigate and try the torturers and

the fuckers who came up with the "legal" justificationa and the president and vice-president who authorized and fought for this. Then go after the ones who were Briefed.

No one is above the law. One tricky part, if I remember correctly, Pelosi was briefed under states secrets and legally could not say anything without facing imprisonment...The problem is does she love freedom over an illegal act she may have known about? Invesitgate, AFTER we punish the ARCHITECTS of "enhanced interrogation".