GOP pollster/wordsmith Luntz to GOP: How To Oppose Obama's Health Care Plan

[ClarkUSA]

TIME's Karen Tumulty gives us a heads-up for what we can expect to hear from The Party of No as they prepare to block President Obama's healthcare reform:

... this fascinating look at the talking points that pollster/wordsmith Frank Luntz has crafted for the House Republicans, as they consider how to approach health care reform. Luntz warns them that public sentiment in favor of fixing the broken system is too strong for them to oppose it directly:

“The status quo is no longer acceptable. If the dynamic becomes ‘President Obama is on the side of reform and Republicans are against it,' then the battle is lost and every word in this document is useless. Republicans must be for the right kind of reform that protects the quality of healthcare for all Americans. And you must establish your support of reform early in your presentation.”

He says there are some arguments Republicans can make that would be "clear winners":

- “It could lead to the government setting standards of care, instead of doctors who really know what's best.”

- “It could lead to the government rationing care, making people stand in line and denying treatment like they do in other countries with national healthcare.”

- “President Obama wants to put the Washington bureaucrats in charge of healthcare. I want to put the medical professionals in charge, and I want patients as an equal partner.”

These could indeed be powerful arguments, as anyone who has watched previous battles over health care reform can tell you.

[supernova]

1. We need to neutralize Luntz

Something along the lines of everytime he opens his mouth he gives away all his secrets, so the public is on to him.

[Occam Bandage]

2. The problem is, that requires them to come up with some reform.

The system is about as Republican-friendly as it could possibly be. What are they going to propose as reform? Demolishing Medicaid?

[DrToast]

3. Exactly! They can't just say 'no'

But I welcome them to try.

[ClarkUSA]

8. True. I doubt they think they have to do anything more than scare the public via disinformation.

They're hoping to raise alot of doubt via Rush Limbaugh et al to scuttle public approval and thus, Democratic lawmakers' will.
I can see more Faux News-sponsored tea bag parties now. It won't work, because President Obama will render their bogus
arguments null and void the same way he ultimately overcame over their objections to his stimulus plan and his budget bill.

[Occam Bandage]

10. Luntz is smart enough to realize that won't work; if you don't have an alternative,

there's nothing for the electorate to grab onto instead of Obama's plan, and the argument becomes "reform that might have some problems" or "nothing changes," and people will pick reform, as everyone thinks "we need to do something."

The GOP is in a bind; the health-care system is exactly where they want it, so anything they propose would be seen as a betrayal by the teabag crowd. Even Luntz couldn't think of an example of a GOP-friendly reform proposal; he just said "well you better think of something, or my linguistic brilliance will be wasted."

[ClarkUSA]

12. Luntz seems to realize the limitations of the lump of dried clay he's trying to breath life into.

The GOP is in a bind; the health-care system is exactly where they want it, so anything they propose would be seen as a betrayal
by the teabag crowd. Even Luntz couldn't think of an example of a GOP-friendly reform proposal; he just said "well you better think
of something, or my linguistic brilliance will be wasted."

Heh heh. Luntz was whining a few weeks ago that he didn't want to remain in the Republican strategist biz anymore because he
was disiilusioned and bored. It sounds as if House Republicans made him a deal he couldn't refuse but evidently they didn't pay
him enough to stick his neck out that much. This wordsmithing hocus pocus is such a retro Newt-Gingrich style approach
to faux-governing. Luntz is as behind the times like the Republicans he is counselling. Don't they know this crap doesn't work
anymore except on their knuckle-dragging Palin-loving base?

The large majority of Americans who give President Obama such high approval will never fall for this stuff but it'll be fun to watch
Republicans tie themselves into impotent knots opposing it and getting nowhere. IMO, the real danger for President Obama's
healthcare reform lies with Evan Bayh and other DLC conservaDems trying to water down the more liberal aspects of the bill.
The White House must know it won't look good if Senate Democrats go around trying to torpedo the legislation while 44 is
touting it.

[Dawgs]

4. "as anyone who has watched previous battles over health care reform can tell you"

Someone needs to tell this fool that this is a different time. Almost all businesses and insurance companies agree that something needs to be done.

[ClarkUSA]

9. You can post a comment on Karen Tumulty's blog. She does sometimes reply.

[NC_Nurse]

5. The current system doesn't put docs in charge, insurance co.s call the shots.

So WTF?

[ClarkUSA]

13. GOP talking points are never meant to be truthful. They are meant for their base.

The truth has to come from our side.

[Hamlette]

32. And the ever dreaded HMOs and people are getting wise to this BS.

More and more people are finding that they can't see the doc they want and their doctor can't make a referral to a doc they want to see, or make a referral at all.

Americans won't listen to their doctors anyway unless their doctors DO SOMETHING. Go to the doc with a virus and you're pissed he didn't give you anti-biotics so docs start giving more antibiotics and now were are all building up immunities. It isn't the fear of malpractice as much (doctors tell me) as patient expectations.

My mom moved to Scotland. She had high blood pressure and was taking 17 pills a day (!!!) at age 50ish. She went to the doctor there and s/he said "we don't do it that way here. You can control your blood pressure by losing 20 pounds and walking a couple of miles a day. I'll refill your prescriptions for 4 months which should give you time to lose the weight and that is all. Oh, and you need to quit smoking too."

She lost the weight, walked a couple of miles a day, quit smoking and that damned socialist health care system and doc probably helped her get to her current 85 years and hopefully beyond.

[WI_DEM]

6. And then CNN or MSNBC will use him as a "neutral" pollster during those town meetings

[ClarkUSA]

25. Yeah, that claim is a joke. Wasn't that Faux News who always used him last year?

[Mist]

7. A Luntz talking point:" “It could lead to the government setting standards of care

instead of doctors who really know what's best.”

Yet conserv-bots don't mind interfering in medicine when abortion is the issue. They've consistantly stood against abortion being between a patient and her doctor, and love intruding the state into the mix.

Luntz thinks health insurance reform could lead to "rationing care"??!! What the hell is it NOW, if not rationed? Jeebus.

[Zen Democrat]

11. If that's all they got -- and it is -- they're DONE. It's the insurance companies, stupid!

Medical professionals aren't making decisions! And insurance companies are setting standards of care -- not doctors!People ARE being denied coverage -- by insurance companies! A lot of people wish that all they had to do was wait in line for elective treatments!

Good God - the Republicans have absolutely NOTHING.

Next!

[Catshrink]

24. Exactly -- insurance companies decide treatment, not doctors.

And they account for 30% of healthcare costs.

We dems need to turn to Lakoff for language to use. He is a master!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

14. Wow! That was really fast

I've heard at least two of these things crop up on NPR already in a story about Obama's proposal for electronic medical records with them using the "some might say" formulation:

“It could lead to the government setting standards of care, instead of doctors who really know what's best.”

- “President Obama wants to put the Washington bureaucrats in charge of healthcare. I want to put the medical professionals in charge, and I want patients as an equal partner.”

:eyes:

Can somebody please tell Luntz that all of the problems he's mentioned are ALREADY present in our PRIVATE-RUN health insurance system. All he needs to do is replace "government" with insurance companies" and he's illuminated most of the current problems for most of us (although probably not, I suppose, for Luntz). I would certainly be interested in hearing what the Republicans are able and willing to propose that would address these problems, as well as make it more affordable.

[ClarkUSA]

17. BushCo funding put alot of GOP operatives in NPR leadership so I'm not surprised.

Luntz and the GOP are so behind the times but don't underestimate the power of their argument on a certain
uninformed sector of the population that is given to sending teabags to the White House. I expect most
independents and Democrats to ignore the Part of No, but Democrats and Pres. Obama will need to get out
there and fight although I have my doubts about DLC DINO Democrats like Evan Bayh and his obstructionist
crew of conservaDems.

[OHdem10]

15. When is someone going to retaliate?

Are you happy with Insurance Bureaucrats rationing care Now??
(HMOs ration every day. Only so many visits. The Donut Hole
is rationing.) It is the Greedy Insurance Companies doing the
rationing.

Call people out on choosing your own doctor. (Only the wealthy
and those with Cadillac Policies literally choose their own Doctor.
(Most Americans get put into a plan. There is a list of participating
Doctors and you choose, hoping the Doctor has an opening. Otherwise
you go down the list.

Until Democrats get a spine and stand up to GOP, calling them out
on their misleading talking points, the American People will never
be informed.

[ClarkUSA]

18. All this stuff is still under the radar. The fight has not begun in earnest yet.

President Obama said this is his top domestic priority and he is ready to fight for it. I have no doubt he will but the
real deciders are in the Senate. The DLC conservaDems will need to hear from us to make sure they don't mess it
up for the rest of us. This will probably go to reconciliation, which means it will pass on a simple majority vote if
the two sides cannot agree by September. We've got a ways to go.

[BattyDem]

16. What Luntz fails to take into account is the fact that ...

all of the things he wants to "prevent" are already happening.

- Doctors do not set the standards for care, insurance companies do and their "standards" are based on profit, not care. Very often, insurance companies refuse to pay for a test, medication or treatment option that the doctor prescribed, even though it's the doctor who knows what's best.

- Rationed care is what we have now. Only those who can afford medical care and/or insurance get to see a doctor. Many insured people aren't getting to see the doctor of their choice, they're seeing the doctor who accepts their insurance. Testing and treatment is denied every single day all across this country ... by the insurance companies.

- Doctors and patients are not in charge of healthcare - insurance company bureaucrats are.


On edit: Any GOP congress critter who uses these talking points should be hit with this:
"Well Senator/Congressman, you may have unlimited options with your gold-plated, taxpayer funded healthcare plan, but for the majority of Americans who have costly deductibles, high co-pays and limited treatment options which are dictated by their HMO, the situation is very different. Would you be willing to sponsor a bill that changes the congressional healthcare plan to an HMO? If it's not good enough for you, then why is it good enough for the American people? Why should our tax dollars pay for YOUR first-class healthcare, but not our own?"

[Puzzler]

19. Rebuttals...

- “It could lead to the government setting standards of care, instead of doctors who really know what's best.”

The current private system lets the private insurance companies set the standards. Are you OK with that?


- “It could lead to the government rationing care, making people stand in line and denying treatment like they do in other countries with national healthcare.”

The current private system already rations and denies treatment to some patients depending on their policies. A government system, such as the Canadian system DOES NOT!!!


- “President Obama wants to put the Washington bureaucrats in charge of healthcare. I want to put the medical professionals in charge, and I want patients as an equal partner.”

The GOP believe that private insurance corporation bureaucrats know what's best for you. Under a single-user program, medical professionals are just as much in charge as in the private system. The difference is that ALL patients are covered by a single simple insurance policy.

[ClarkUSA]

23. Very good.

Not sure whether we'll make the jump to a single-payer system this year but President Obama's healthcare reform is way better than
what Americans have now and is a good transitional step to having single-payer someday.

[Overseas]

20. Luntz talking points describe our current situation, with a few simple word change

We now have insurance companies setting standards of care, instead of doctors who really know what's best.

- We now have insurance companies rationing care, making people stand in line and denying treatment like they do in other countries with national healthcare.

- The GOP wants to keep insurance bureaucrats in charge of healthcare.

[ClarkUSA]

26. lol! You're good at this, too. We could use all of these excellent rebuttals in future LTTE.

[Overseas]

40. Further talking point refinement -- Pick your own evildoer

Republican talking points for opposing national health insurance can be applied to the other side quite easily. Pick your poison:

We don't want government / insurance companies setting standards of care, instead of doctors who really know what's best.

We don't want government / insurance companies rationing care, making people stand in line and denying treatment due to medical advisory boards / ability to pay.

We don't want government / insurance company bureaucrats in charge of healthcare.


================

What we really want is NON-PROFIT medical care.

As taxpayers, we already subsidize Research & Development.

We want the ability to get medical treatment when necessary, without worrying about thousands of dollars in bills.

We want people in charge of allocating medical care who do not get millions of dollars in bonuses.

We want the security of knowing that we can't go bankrupt if we're injured in an accident.

[KT2000]

21. Now, insurance companies are

in charge of healthcare and it amounts to rationing.
They are answerable to no one.

[EC]

22. Yes and the sky could fall

these are just "could" happen statements...where are their plans? How do they propose to DO?

[grantcart]

27. hold on just a second

Luntz is a "wordsmith"


Now that's funny

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. Of all the annoying lying ass right wing jagoffs Luntz has to rank in the top 10 if not 5. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

29. .

[Yavin4]

30. My Counter Luntz's Points

“It could lead to the government setting standards of care, instead of doctors who really know what's best.”

Right now, the HMOs are setting the standards of care, not doctors.


“It could lead to the government rationing care, making people stand in line and denying treatment like they do in other countries with national healthcare.”

HMOs ration health care and deny treatment


“President Obama wants to put the Washington bureaucrats in charge of healthcare. I want to put the medical professionals in charge, and I want patients as an equal partner.”

HMO bureaucrats are now in charge of your healthcare.

[ClarkUSA]

34. Short and sweet. These would make good soundbites.

:thumbsup:

[HopeOverFear]

31. CLARK...please edit this to include rebuttal talking points that we can use

thank you.

[ClarkUSA]

33. I wish I could... but my editing period has expired.

Maybe I'll wait until tomorrow and write another OP which incorporates the rebuttals after enough brilliant DUers have chimed in.
Whaddya think?

[HopeOverFear]

35. That sounds like a great idea! Look forward to seeing it. :)

[zulchzulu]

36. Easy Nuke On Their Parade: Senators/Congresspeople NOW get government-run healthcare!

Luntz is out of ammo on this. It's stale and stupid arguments.

Simply put, the same Republican Senators and Congress people who are against "government-run", "socialist" healthcare HAVE GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTHCARE NOW! And guess what... we are PAYING FOR IT!

The simple framing is that the same Republican Senators and Congress people who HAVE GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTHCARE:

• Think people are too stupid to figure out their hypocrisy
  
• Think the American people don't deserve what they have
  
• Are too arrogant selfish to even think that they already have what they are protesting against
  
• Are in bed with the pharmaceutical and insurance industries and are mere tools

I'd love to take on Fred Luntz with this issue. He's scared... and stupid.

[ClarkUSA]

37. Bull's eye!

I wonder WTH Eric Cantor could come up with that rebuts THAT.

I'd love to take on Fred Luntz with this issue. He's scared... and stupid.

Wish you would. He'd probably duck any real debate unless he was paid big bucks. But your point is excellent. When the
fight starts in earnest, I'll bet President Obama says the same thing -- after all, it's something he said during the entire GE.

[HopeOverFear]

41. We need a televison ad that says EXACTLY THAT

[SoCalDem]

38. Newsflash for Lunkhead-Luntz

Patients are NEVER an "equal-partner"..never have been..never will be.,

Patients are usually SICK, and are relying on the DOCTOR'S expertise.. That puts the doctor in a position of power.. A patient can do all the research in the world, but when push comes to shove, it's the DOCTOR who's in the driver's seat.

IF a patient can then get a doctor to tend to his.her needs, then the INSURANCE company/HMO takes the wheel and the patient is now in the back seat..

The whole medical care issue is a no-brainer..

Dems want EVERYONE to have medical care...the only thing at issue is whether they will be strong enough to push through what we all NEED..universal/single-payer, or if they will settle for a nibble at the edges and delivery of a better-but-not-great plan that will need more work.

Republicans want things as they are..

The decision is just that simple..

[ClarkUSA]

39. Steny Hoyer and Chuck Todd are discussing the Luntz memo on The Ed Show now.

Hoyer is feisty but passing healthcare reform in the House is a no-brainer. Chuck Todd said it's the Senate Republicans
that will be the problem.

[pot luck]

42. I saw an anti health care ad on CNN the other day

using these talking points. Looks like whoever made the ad got the same memo.

[ClarkUSA]

43. The RNC is good at that. Democrats are keeping their powder dry for now.

Our best weapon is President Obama. He will be deployed at the right time. In the meantime, I've seen Congressional Democrats
doing a good job of rebutting many of these talking points. At some point in the next couple of months, all of us have got to step
up and start calling DLC ConservaDem Senators and writing LTTE's.