Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

If Universal Health Care is Achieved - Barack Obama Can Inherit The Mantle of Popular Capitalism.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:11 PM
Original message
If Universal Health Care is Achieved - Barack Obama Can Inherit The Mantle of Popular Capitalism.
In the UK people are looking back fondly to the election of Margaret Thatcher, whose 30th anniversary of her first day in office is today.

Thatcher when elected faced a nation that was

Being destroyed by strikes
A nation in massive debt
Rising Unemployment
High inflation
Crippled industry
Crippled public services
A World Pariah not involved in any Global negotiations.

During the election campaign, President Obama recognised the importance of Reagan and the grip he achieved over the "Reagan Democrats". For the power behind those ideas though you have to look to Britain.

It was Thatcher that persuaded Reagan that Gorbachev was someone to work with. It was Thatcher whose policies exploded trade between Wall Street and London. Her success among the people was millions of new small businesses, delivery of high wage growth, a growing economy, low inflation and large reductions in income tax.

This is something the GOP forgets - especially those in the US that claim the mantle of Conservative.

President Obama now faces similar, and in many ways worse problems than those faced during the Thatcher / Reagan years.

A nation in massive debt
Rising Unemployment
Crippled industry
Crippled public services
A Nation whose previous President had become a World Pariah.

On top of that he faces the problem of growing unemployment and deflation in the economy as a whole. The most dangerous and pervasive economy killer. This is combined with consumers still facing inflation in food and energy costs.

The International Pariah problem was relatively easily solved. Any new President was not George Bush, although the outside World would have looked at America with a degree of incredulity had McCain been elected. However the problems of the Cold War may become miniscule if the situation if Pakistan worsens. Mutual Assured Destruction kept the peace during the Cold War. That may not be the case if the Taliban reaches Islamabad.

The economy is going to be a lot tougher but yet again this is why both the GOP and Conservadems are out of touch with reality. Attempts to block or reduce his pro gramme will hurt only them and more importantly the US. It is also why claims that he is a Socialist fail.

Barack Obama is not a tax raising President. Whatever Tea Party protesters may have said, Barack Obama has not increased tax cuts in fact, through the stimulus, Barack Obama introduced $282 billion of tax cuts. The largest ever in history. Beating the Reagan and Bush tax cuts in cash terms and GDP terms. The difference. Where they are targeted.

Reagan cut taxes on all levels but as Republicans fail to remember - only after significantly increasing them. Bush targeted tax cuts towards the richest. Obama cut taxes for the ordinary worker. The economic importance of this is crucial. Tax cuts for the rich boost savings levels. The lower paid you are the higher propensity to spend. The key to ending a recession is spending.

One of the key factors killing off the US Industry, (especially the Car Industry), is not the productivity level of US employees. American workers are the most productive (in many ways over productive without enough holidays), in the World. It is the failure of the US Government to provide for the basic needs of ordinary Americans. The GOP claims to be Anti Government but defence spending has sky rocketed, the US has a prison system larger than that of China. Both of these elements have bloated the cost of Government and NO GOP President would ever tackle these issues. Despite the growth of Government, education for many remains poor, there is no decent health care system and pensioners have had their federal Social Security funds stolen to pay for GOP deficits.

Tackling the defence budget will be difficult, but it is something that must be done. The same must apply to the Prisons budget. That does mean a thorough examination of drugs laws and sentencing. The War on Drugs has done nothing except destroy talent and fill prisons.

They key factor though is health care. Universal Health Care removes that cost from the employer, allowing American companies to compete better in the World. It will allow American consumers to worry less and spend more as they need not worry about personal bankruptcy if things go wrong. It re-involves the un-insured in America, whose population group represents the size of a reasonably large economy. Most importantly it will truly give the average American worker the feeling that the Government works for them. This is no time for compromise solutions. Real health care reform must be introduced.

Once universal health care is achieved it is not the GOP that will have involved everyone in a capitalist revival, it will be the Democratic Party. The consequences of that will be to keep a newly enriched America well away from the GOP for years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obama is not going for single-payer health care
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think he may be.
He's just doing it through the backdoor by pushing for a public plan as an alternative to private plans. The private plans won't be able to compete.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. They do not need to compete as such they need to remarket.
If people want a gold plated service, they will still be able to buy it even if there is a universal health care system. Just because coach class exists on planes, it does not exclude the airline from providing first class seats.

A universal system will help the insurance industry if they pick up their game. They need to provide a higher quality health care at an affordable cost if they want to compete.

The UK has an active health insurance market despite having a free at the point of use universal system.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Wait and see the results of the health care consultation.
It is for the Democratic Party to push for it. Importantly though, the key to any successful health care reform, is not the provider, something Blair was trying to get his party to recognise in Britain, but the outcome. Reducing costs for American employers, ending health care bankruptcies for individuals and covering the uninsured is critical to any recovery.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rip Van Winkle commentary
Edited on Sun May-03-09 10:02 PM by autorank
Apparently you've just awakened after a year or two sleep. There's no capitolism to return to.
It's all been a Ponzi scheme for the "in crowd" and it just came crashing down. The looters
are not in jail yet but their crimes are known:

"We need some chairmen or chairwomen … in Congress, to hold the necessary hearings (on banking fraud) and we can blast this out. But if you leave the failed CEOs in place, it isn't just that they're terrible business people, though they are. It isn't just that they lack integrity, though they do. Because they were engaged in these frauds … they're not going to disclose the truth about the assets." Bill Moyers Journal, Apr 3, 2009"

The banks failed the rigged stress test, maybe, or the came close. Absent their own accounting
schemes, they're insolvent. The big three may be dead soon.

What on earth are you talking about?

And please, Margaret Thatcher, my God! She was just another member of the international financial
kleptocracy which created their own wealth with smoke and mirrors. England is as deep into the
financial fraud as the Wall Street crew. Give it a break.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. As I pointed out
it was not capitalism during the Bush years it was corporate socialism. Even during the Clinton years we saw massive expansion of what is now a prison industry.

Reagan sold ordinary people the concept of popular capitalism but failed to deliver it. The concept of ordinary people feeling involved with capitalism and owning a part of it is not a GOP concept. Nor is socialism a Democratic Party concept. The GOP may try and portray the Democratic Party as "socialist" but it is far removed from being so. In comparison to political parties across the World, "Liberal" Democratic Senators are still seen as centre right, which places Conservative Democrats on the right and the GOP on the hard right. This is why the term "Moderate Democrats" is wrong.

President Obama recognised the importance of Reagan Democrats of the 80's during the campaign. What is important is that with Reagan it was an illusion. There was no real involvement of working people during the 80's in capitalism. Despite that, a lot of Democrats still hark back to a time where they felt their wealth was growing. It is only a Democratic Party that can deliver that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Trillions for Wall Street, not a cent for the people
Edited on Sun May-03-09 11:27 PM by autorank
Here's what Wall Street is getting compared to citizens.

Graph: The banks received $3.2 trillion through the Federal Reserve, a $700 billion bailout in
October, 2008 and 2009 budget item for another $750 billion bailout. An unspecified number of
citizens will benefit from the recently passed $787 billion stimulus bill. Link

As for citizens, the Senate turned down a moderate mortgage relief bill 45-51. Nothing for us, but
a continuation of welfare for Wall Street. The "ordinary people" are aware of the scam this time.

National, single payer health insurance would be a great chage but we won't see it as long as the
top priority is the transfer of bank debt from the large institutions to the the rest of us.

Better to fix that one first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I certainly did not say I supported what I consider to be corporate socialism.
I am not convinced that the economic consequences of letting the banks fall would be any worse for the ordinary working American than the situation we have now, which is charging them double to continue borrowing.

London and Washington are borrowing large sums of money, at cost, to enable the banks to carry on charging consumers for loans created out of thin air, the effect of which was to create unsustainable hyper inflation in property prices.

What would have been the cost of everyones mortgage being cleared?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Not true.
Edited on Tue May-05-09 09:01 AM by ClarkUSA
Check out these links for what Pres. Obama is doing for The People:

http://www.recovery.gov/
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/foundationforchange

For example:

:redbox: almost 7 million people who collect unemployment are receiving an extra $100 per month than they did prior to the stimulus plan
:bluebox: 50M retirees are getting an extra $250 with their SS, SSI, & veteran's disability payments this month

More at: http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/impact





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Meaningless hair splitting.

"Corporate socialism' is just the latest phase of Capitalism, ain't no anomaly but a logical, evolutionary development. There is no ideal, livable, capitalism for the masses, except under extraordinary circumstances, such as the post-WWII period in the US.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Oh, please.

Corporate socialism, give it a break. It is capitalism, plain and simple, evolving in the direction of more money.

"Popular Capitalism' is virtually an oxymoron, by it's nature capitalism exploits the populace. It robs workers of the value of their labor and then turns around and use psy-ops(advertising) to convince those exploited workers to buy a bunch of crap with their diminished buying power that they don't need.

That is one crazy, unjust and unsustainable way to run a society.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. Ewwww, Ick! Thatcher? Reagan/Thatcher/Mulroney = Axis of Evil
A MASSIVE transfer of global wealth under their watch.

The history books will have a heyday with these three freaks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. Uh...Maggie wanted to ELIMINATE universal health care...
:wtf:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Somewhat of a myth
She increased NHS funding by 50% over inflation. The UK does not have a mainstream (or even no mainstream) political Party that would scrap the NHS. Every Party has to be committed to it, because the British love it. The UK does not debate whether to have universal health care, its debates centre on how better to manage it.

Health care is just one example of why the GOP is out of touch with other right of centre Parties across the World. Simply because they are not right of centre. No other major economy is without some kind of fully comprehensive universal health care system.

Concentrating again on Thatcher, her popularity was because she got people to believe in Capitalism. Share ownership went from 5% of the population owning shares to 25%. Home ownership went from 42% to 70%. Much of that growth was selling council houses to their tenants.

The health care situation in America actually excludes people from participation. The fear of bankruptcy because of medical bills. Employment cots boosted because as the Government will not do it, employers feel obligated to take on health care costs. This is not something the Republicans want to tackle. The mantle has been left to the Democratic Party.

By leaving that mantle to the Democratic Party it is they, not the GOP who save capitalism, so where does the GOP go from there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
11. Both TR & FDR saved capitalism by regulating it. Bush/Cheney corporate socialism almost destroyed us
Edited on Mon May-04-09 09:22 AM by Faryn Balyncd




The GOP has done all it can to destroy the regulated capitalism/mixed economy which has provided the economic basis of our open society.


Yet the GOP - the party of corporate welfare, special interest, and corruption - still has the gall to shamelessly claim to be the party of the entrepreneur and small business.


But the small business economic revival under Obama will be no accident.


You are on to something.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. Your blog's subtitle is intriguing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC