Biden Advises Family to Stay Off Planes, Subways (AP)

[jefferson_dem]

Not a very smart thing to say, Joe. They best come out with a bit of clarification soon.

Biden Advises Family to Stay Off Planes, Subways
By AP Thursday, Apr. 30, 2009Print

(WASHINGTON) — Vice President Joe Biden says he's advising his own family to stay off commercial airlines and even subways because of the new swine flu.

Biden said Thursday if one person sneezes on a confined aircraft, "it goes all the way through the aircraft." Going beyond official advice from the federal government, Biden said of his family's personal precautions: "That's me."

Asked on NBC's Today show whether the government should close the border with Mexico to try to slow the spread of the flu, Biden says health authorities advise that would be impractical because the swine flu has already spread to the U.S. and several other nations. Instead, he says people should focus on confined places where the flu could spread quickly, such as airplanes, malls and classrooms.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1894840,00.html

VIDEO of JOE HERE - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/30494440#30494440

[ErinBerin84]

1. yeah, that was pretty careless

He did sound pretty casual when he said that and he probably just meant to be practical , but Morning Joe is freaking the fuck out with "WHAT? Our vice president SAID THAT? WHAT?????" Chuck Todd didn't even bring it up until the very tail end of his interview and didn't seem to think it was a big deal until the Drudge sirens in Joe's eyes started swirling.

[sandnsea]

2. Uh - Duh

Curtail activities for a few days, if you can. Better than the bigger catastrophe of a true national epidemic.

[PearliePoo2]

3. This is going to be a BIG deal

Hang on to your hats, folks.

[Clio the Leo]

19. And I guarantee you, we wont be talking about it tomorrow. ;-) NT

[PearliePoo2]

91. Hi Clio

Well...here it is tomorrow.
Had the TV on much today? ;-)

[Why Syzygy]

4. Tell Joe ..

that the "experts" have said that Mexico closing restaurants, national monuments and tourist sites is "ineffective"; that limiting exposure to "confined spaces" is not necessary. Too many "experts". Follow the advice of your mother. She isn't likely to mislead you.

[vaberella]

9. And the "experts" differ in opinion in different areas.

ie. The CDC and WHO don't agree on everything. And the US has put up more barriers to protect people from the illness, if possible, than the WHO. As for confined space...let's be serious. The President went on national television and told people if you have kids who are sick or know of someone who is sick...keep your kids home = remain in a confined space.

[uppityperson]

87. There is a difference between confining sick kids and being in a confined place with

others who may be sick and you aren't.

Yes, if you or your kids are sick, stay home, confine yourself.

If you are not sick, you stand a good chance of being exposed if you are in a confined place with someone who is sick. Avoiding crowded areas with poor air circulation is a good idea, if you can, same as during any flu season.

[Hieronymus]

89. Joe's fans have defended every idiotic thing he has ever said. It's not

going to stop now.:eyes:

[Kokonoe]

5. Any unnecessary activity that would expose yourself to the virus

should be curtailed. He is not ordering his family, just advising.

[marshall]

84. The poor folks who ride the train don't have a choice

They don't have cars and drivers, they don't have jobs they can not come in to, they don't have vacation homes where they can hole up, their children aren't being cared for by private nannies.

I can at least call in sick if I can't come to work. I'm shocked by how many jobs penalize somebody for being sick.

[vaberella]

6. How is this careless?! They've said this before already.

Remember unnecessary travel and if you can, stay home, especially if sick. Not to mention cover mouth so you don't infect others---however that doesn't work if you are in an enclosed area.

[yourguide]

13. Because there are many people who take trains to work.

People not taking trains means they arent going to work, not going to work, in a city like Manhattan would probably have a negative effect on the economy.

Oh and then there is the potential panic it could cause.

Love Joe, this is very irresponsible though.

[Teaser]

24. nope.wrong.fail.

This is a responsible answer.

People should learn to listen to rational advice without panicking.
We are not lemmings, we are not sheep. We are Homo Sapiens, goddammit. Act like it.

[yourguide]

26. BS

You fail.

I live in NY. I understand the reality of this. I also understand the reality of not having the luxury of NOT taking the train into work.

Responsible would have been:

Wash your hands
Try to stay away from large crowds
Go to the doctor if you feel ill

Irresponsible is:

Dont take the subway
Dont fly
Dont dont travel/commute

Although common sense is dont take the subway if you want to avoid illness, it's not practical advice considering the current state of the virus as well as oh, people going to work. It's a bit like saying if you dont want to be in a plane crash dont fly.

[Teaser]

27. your shipment of pwn has arrived.

I live in a city not much smaller than NYC: FAIL.TO.IMPRESS.

His advice is true for you or me or anyone else. If you want to minimize your risk of infection, any kind of infection, avoid unnecessary enclosed environments of any sort. If we want to contain a spreading infection, minimizing the number of people traveling will help.

If you have to get to work? Then it's a necessary risk. If you don't need the subway to do so, don't take it. Collectively, these kind of choices made my smaller numbers of people can have a difference.

Learn to assess your own risks and make your own judgements about what constitutes "necessary".

It isn't Joe's job to figure that out for you.

[yourguide]

30. If it was so responsible

then why are they walking it back?

We could go rounds about this.

This is NY, 95% of it's residents NEED the subway to get to work. The VP essentially suggesting to the nation if you dont want to get sick dont take the subway is irresponsible.

Hell, if you dont want to get sick or hit by a car or get a sunburn then dont leave the house.


I have assessed my own risks and know what is necessary, it doesnt change the fact that his statement was irresponsible.

Speaking of, what city do you live in that is "not much smaller than NY"? None in the US. The population of NY is 8.3 million...los angeles 3.8 million (and very few rely on public transportation to get around) which is less than half the size. Chicago at 2.8 million, is about a third as large. Los Angeles and Chicago combined still arent as large as NY. SO.I.GUESS.YOU.FAIL. Accuracy fail.

[Hieronymus]

78. Thank you.

[jefferson_dem]

28. Absolutely.

Biden's comments run the great risk of inducing panic, rightly or wrongly. It was a stupid thing to say and I'm sure he realizes that now. Good thing is...it is easier to walk the comments back now because they were made by Joe, who has a reputation to be a bit of a "free talker" from time to time. :)

[PassingFair]

20. "Class rooms" ????

Stupid.

[NYC_SKP]

23. Actually, classrooms are a breeding ground of yuck.

Every teacher knows this.

Many teachers in their first months catch colds and bugs and after a year their systems get over it.

Kids aren't the cleanest critters in the world, and there's lots of contact opportunities during the school day.

:donut:

[TankLV]

36. YES CLASSROOMS!!! MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE CLOSED - NOW!!!

but don't let the FACTS get in the way of your spew...

[yourguide]

38. Many would imply at least a majority

and that is not this case. Not by a long shot.

So perhaps you should revisit your own "facts"?

[jefferson_dem]

7. White House has clarified: Biden's comments were "imprecise".

Just announced on Morning Joe.

[vaberella]

10. How are they imprecise?! He most definitely isn't wrong...considering. n/t

[jefferson_dem]

11. The press and public are fueled by the latest greatest hyped-up story.

Public comments like these would tend to induce the sort of hysterical response that runs totally counter to the image this President hopes to project.

...not to mention the economy is teetering right now and "irrational exuberance" in the wrong direction would not be helpful.

[vaberella]

12. Hah...I'm NYC...let's just say he's not bringing any histeria around here.

Especially since I basically lived in Queens yesterday.

[yourguide]

15. How do you know?

He just said it an hour ago. Do you know how many people called in?

Any idea how many asked to work from home?

[vaberella]

52. Uh...the news already stated that we had the highest rate of it.

Not to mention they mentioned exactly the part of the 5 boroughs that had it, the schools, and the amount of people who are building----hundreds are rumored to possibly affected since the school was made up of 2700 students. And I believe it was MSNBC and CNN reporters stated that several hundred people in New York COULD be affected and this was stated yesterday. So...Biden's statement is unlikely to cause hysteria.

Because if Biden was going to cause it he'd be a little considering what we're hearing in NYC. Plus I was on the train to Queens....I should have seen it barren...no it was filled to the brim with people coughing all over the place.

Bloomberg was even making comments along the same lines as Biden. So, I do have some idea and I stated as much. Plus I live in Manhattan.

[yourguide]

71. I am sitting a block away from union square right now.

Bloomberg did not tell anyone to avoid the subway. Stop the nonsense.

[PearliePoo2]

8. They are already taking it back now.

The White House is saying Joe's remarks were "imprecise" and not official policy.
Joe...I love ya man...but you are now under the biggest microscope ever.

[TankLV]

37. JOE WAS RIGHT - many more school districts are closing NOW!!!

so much for your spew...

GO JOE GO!!!

TELL IT LIKE IT IS!!!

and don't let the assholes get to you...

[PearliePoo2]

75. You're calling me an asshole? Why?

What I said was he is "under the biggest microscope ever." How is that a "spew"?
I didn't offer an opinion of his remarks one way or the other.
FWIW...I happen to agree with him, in that I will be avoiding crowded/confined areas if I possibly can...it makes sense.
Joe answer was personal, sensible and honest too. (and he'll get slammed for it)

[Kaylee]

14. Why, Joe. Why.

This isn't going to be pretty.

[bcoylepa]

16. He was asked the question

Matt Lauer knew it was a gotcha question - Biden was asked what he would tell his children about getting on a plane to Mexico - Biden framed it as just his own opinion - although he offered up the subway part
But the people who are screaming about this do not care about or understand infection control - closing the border is not effective - the virus has already entered the country - it is now up to each and every American to practice their own infection control - which includes limiting exposure - such as planes and trains if you can - and the old standby handwashing

Close the Mexican border? people will come in through Canada
Close the Canadian border - come in through European air travel

closing a school is feasible - not the border

[Thrill]

17. And we laughed at Burr for saying he told his family to take all their money out the bank

Biden is really careless sometimes

[TankLV]

39. And he is ENTIRELY CORRECT MOST TIMES - LIKE NOW!!!

school districts are now CLOSED in many places because of the very concern JOE expressed!

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. Dumb

[NYC_SKP]

21. Too bad that as VP you can't be honest. The government has to manage the truth.

I especially love it when the official truth is so different from the objective truth.

Guess what, it's better to avoid planes and subways if there's a bug going around.

But it's not his call to make, truth has to be managed by the official spokesperson on these matters.

There was no recession, for example, until there was no possible way of denying that there was.

Poor Joe!

:patriot:

[Teaser]

22. Uh no, this scientist agrees with Joe.

It's just common sense. If you want to minimize your chance of illness, follow Joe's advice.

[jefferson_dem]

25. Biden's spokesperson statement clarifying Joe's comments.

On the Today Show this morning the Vice President was asked what he would tell a family member who was considering air travel to Mexico this week. The advice he is giving family members is the same advice the Administration is giving to all Americans: that they should avoid unnecessary air travel to and from Mexico. If they are sick, they should avoid airplanes and other confined public spaces, such as subways. This is the advice the Vice President has given family members who are traveling by commercial airline this week. As the President said just last night, every American should take the same steps you would take to prevent any other flu: keep your hands washed; cover your mouth when you cough; stay home from work if you're sick; and keep your children home from school if they're sick.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0409/Clean_up_aisle_five.html?showall

[cbc5g]

29. Biden is a fool...Obama would have done better with someone else

[ginnyinWI]

31. no he's not.

He's just too honest for some.

He's exactly right. If you want to avoid being sick, you don't fly, don't spend time in crowds. It's just that nobody can handle the truth. Of course people need to fly, but they should be aware that they are increasing their risk.

[FloriTexan]

32. I don't know what to think but...

they closed the entire Fort Worth Independent School District today because of one case and 2 (or 3) suspected cases. Dallas is probably next. My husband had Swine Flu when he was 13 and isn't surprised they are taking this seriously even though it does seem mild.

[Jennicut]

33. I think people panic for no reason. Look, I have to worry more then most. I have diabetes.

My immune system is not great to begin with. I get infections, colds, etc. much easier then other people. And I am not worried or panicked because it does nothing. Joe was asked a question of what he would advise his family personally. I see nothing wrong with that answer. I personally won't be going on any planes, trains, subways etc. I really need to be extra careful. But freaking out over that is kind of ridiculous. Just be careful and if you have to take public transportation then make sure you wash your hands after, etc.

[TankLV]

34. Biden was ENTIRELY CORRECT and PRUDENT!

And MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS SUPPORT HIS VIEW AND ARE CLOSING - NOW!!!

Fuck what other's "think" - what Biden said and did WAS CORRECT!

Even the CDC says so...

[PassingFair]

46. How many classrooms in DC are closing down?

Calm down.

[AngryAmish]

35. EVERYBODY PANIC!

[greguganus]

49. CALL FUCKIN' CONGRESS RIGHT NOW! n/t

[ecstatic]

40. It was a gaffe--he said what he was really thinking

and frankly what a lot of people are already thinking. I feel sorry for those who have no choice but to use crowded public transport near the places where the virus has surfaced. My trip to Mexico has been rescheduled.

[jillan]

41. One thing about that Biden - he speaks the truth.

I don't know why the msm is making a big deal about this.

We all know that airplanes are full of germs...as is your house after it's been closed up all winter.

[Jennicut]

42. I saw something on NBC news not too long ago about just how filthy and dirty planes are inside

Many times they are not cleaned out too well in between flights, if at all...gross. Who knows about subways, trains, buses.

[eleny]

43. Oh for pity sakes...

The way this thing is spreading, his advice to his family could be the best advice nationwide pretty soon. If we have an alternative method of travel besides crowded ones, seems prudent to go with the alternative.

Many people die from flu each year and this one is new with no vaccine against it. So staying away from crowded places when it's possible is excellent advice.

[jillan]

44. I love how msnbc just blasted Biden for this and then immediately followed it with - 4 more cases of

the flu have been reported :eyes:

[1corona4u]

45. So, why don't all the idiots...

who think Joe was out of line, just jump on the first plane to Mexico. Just to prove him wrong of course. What?? No way?? Chickenshits. We all know Joe is right. Anyone with a pea for a brain knows he's right. If people are walking around the world wearing face mask, out in the OPEN, then OBVIOUSLY someone thiks germs are being spread through the AIR. Is there AIR in confined spaces? Airplanes? Trains? DUH!!!

The media are the idiots, and so are people who think what he said is wrong.

[Cha]

47. Yeah!

Hey Corona, long time no see:hi:

How ya doin?:)

[1corona4u]

66. I'm good....

I knew this would bring out the moronic post though....so I couldn't resist. :hi:

[Cha]

73. You have VP

Biden's back..I can understand that:P

[yourguide]

48. Hey, I just got off the subway.

However, if I hadnt just taken the subway I wouldnt have been paid today.

So, I just hopped the subway, dont have swine flu, and proved him wrong.

[greguganus]

51. Get back in touch with us in 3 business days. n/t

[yourguide]

53. I've take the subway daily

at least twice a day since the outbreak.

Nothing yet.

[msallied]

56. Do you understand the meaning of "unnecessary travel?"

Because if you needed to get to WORK, then it wasn't unnecessary, was it?

Also, look up incubation periods.

[yourguide]

57. Do you understand that in a city of 8.3 million people

where subway travel is mandatory suggesting people not take the subway is irresponsible?


I understand unnecessary travel, Biden chose his words poorly.


"That's me. I would not be at this point, if they had another way of transportation, suggesting they ride the subway."

[1corona4u]

59. Oh, and Biden didn't choose his words unwisely...

those were words...FOR HIS FAMILY. NOT THE NATION AT LARGE. SEE?

[yourguide]

60. Unfortunately those words were said on national television

from our leadership. When they should have been said to his family in the privacy of his own home.

[jillan]

61. He was asked about what advice he would give to his family....and ended

his remarks with "that's just me".

Do what you want. Biden wasn't talking to you.

[yourguide]

63. I am doing what I want

it doesnt change that what he said is irresponsible.

[jillan]

64. Whatever -

[Jennicut]

68. Why are we even fighting about this?

The people who need to be the most careful are people like me (weakened immune systems), those with young kids and the elderly. For everyone else its like getting the flu except there is no vaccine for it. It could be stronger then a regular flu, we don't know yet but its still just a flu.
If you have to work and you need to take the subway just be careful. No need to get hostile about it. Joe was just saying to be careful and avoid public transportation if you can. You can't, so just make sure you wash your hands and other common sense things.

[yourguide]

72. That is my point.

There is no reason to tell people not to ride the subway.

All you need to do is be careful.

Look, if there was nothing wrong or irresponsible in what he said (not what he meant, what he said) there would be zero reason for the WH to be backpeddaling right now.

[Jennicut]

79. They don't want people to panic but they are being overly cautious here imo

Nothing wrong with common sense advice. But seriously, most people here on this board have nothing to worry about even if they get it. I have been in the hospital with diabetes related complications and have had infections that have not gone away, cuts that have not healed properly, etc. If I get sick I would not be doing too good. I have colds that turn into bronchitis and what not because my immune system sucks.
I do wonder how long until we do see canceled flights and more closed schools though.

[greguganus]

86. One of the symptoms of the swine flu is arguing about it on the internet. n/t

[yourguide]

88. Oh man...then corona's had it for years.

[1corona4u]

65. Look, you obviously have some personal issues....

with Biden, so give it a rest. I'm really tired of the mentality of people, such as yourself. They make everything an issue. Everything. Even when it's not an issue. You should get a job in the media. You'd fit right in.

I'm not worried about swine flu at all. I have Tamiflu in my fridge. This is just like SARS, Bird Flu, etc. Seems that every few years, there's a new thing to address. I find it odd, that NO ONE, including the media, is talking about what the tipping point was, where this jumped from pigs to humans. Up until a few days ago, the CDC's site said there had only been a few cases of human infection, WORLD WIDE. So instead of bitching about WHAT JOE SAID, how about you divert your attention to what REALLY matters. How it ended up in humans, just like the bird flu did....odd, don't ya think....

[yourguide]

69. No

I dont have issues with Biden, I have issues with him speaking irresponsibly.

And what REALLY matters is me washing my hands, covering my mouth when I cough, and seeing a doctor if I feel sick BECAUSE I LIVE IN NY, THERE ARE 48 CONFIRMED CASES IN NY, AND I TAKE THE DAMN SUBWAY!

So, enough of your assumptions that I have an issue with Biden, I have an issue with potentially panicking the city.

[jefferson_dem]

81. Welcome back to the board.

I see you are back with a bullet... Calling DUers idiots, chickenshits, and so on. But then again, you were all up in arms about Reverend Wright and Obama's "afro-centric church" during the primaries too.

:hi:

[1corona4u]

85. Yeah, well, I still fucking voted for Obama...

so get over it.

Seems to me that Obama cut the past loose with Wright. Maybe you should learn to let go of the past too. Just a thought.

[1corona4u]

58. Yeah, and for being such a cocky know -it-all you probably will get sick now...

you know, Karma and all that...

[yourguide]

62. Hey corona

FU if you think karma for challenging you in a thread is getting the swine flu.

Perhaps you should get cancer for being so combative in your responses as well, you know, karma and all that :sarcasm:

[1corona4u]

I'm on the right side....you're not.

[yourguide]

70. Yeah, suggesting me getting swine flu as karma

is certainly on the right side...:rolls eyes:

Be careful with that cancer ok?

[1corona4u]

74. I didn't suggest it....

you set it in motion...I just made you aware of it.

Have a nice day. I'm done with this exercise in futility.

[yourguide]

77. Well...just be aware then you set your own in motion

as a matter of fact, it's you who will probably end up with swine flu as karma for even suggesting it was a karmic over something so trite. Or maybe your tamiflu expired as karma.

You have a nice day too.

[jefferson_dem]

80. Ewwww.... Back off! You're contaminated!

Gross.

...

:sarcasm:

[Jennicut]

55. Hey corona

The MSM are always idiots so what else is new. Good to hear from you. :)

[Bankhead_ATL]

50. Biden is a great guy but his mouth is too big sometimes

[Beacool]

54. Biden has a BIG mouth.

I like the guy and he's a decent man, but sometimes he should control what he says.



:eyes:

[snowdays]

67. just Imprecise per the WH. but I

agree, Joe is a good soul.

[marshall]

82. His handlers need to keep a tighter rein on him

When the cameras start rolling he goes into automatic pilot.

[Sebastian Doyle]

76. Uh oh.... Joe's telling people to avoid trains?

Now that sounds fucking serious :evilfrown:

[polichick]

83. imo the WH only needed to point out that Joe said "That's me" - period.

[Muttocracy]

92. that's what I thought too - a personal family answer, from a guy with a 92yo mom. nt

[Beacool]

90. At first I thought that nothing much would be made of his comments.

But, last night I saw that his office had to clarify his comments, Napolitano spoke about it and Gibbs did more BS tap dancing over this issue than Fred Astaire on a good day. LOL!!!

Also, Bloomberg rode the subway to prove him wrong and the airline industry is furious at him since they're barely hanging in as it is.

Moral of the story: Hey Joe, next time remember that you are the VP and when you open your mouth you are representing the administration.

I do like Joe, but he sometimes has foot in mouth disease.

:7

[rucky]

93. Obama pretty much said the same thing..but was more careful in his advice.

he advised people with flu-like symptoms to stay off plane and public transportation.

Both are saying that those environments have the highest risk of exposure. There is a big difference as to how that information can be presented, though.