We should pressure President Obama to do Nothing about Bush-era torture

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

We should not pressure President Obama to prosecute the Bush people. It is not his job and if it were this would be a dictatorship.

We should pressure him to do nothing except get out of the way.

It seems likely that if left to his own devices Eric Holder would do the right thing under US law, which is to appoint an Independent Counsel to investigate whether crimes were committed and to seek whatever valid prosecutions his investigation finds to be warranted.

Again, appointing an IC is to determine, in the least partisan way, whether crimes were comitted. No pre-judgment. No pitch-forks. Just the orderly process of law as provided for in our system. (Back in the day a three-judge panel would appoint an independent prosecutor but under today's law it is entirely the AG's call.)

There is only one person in the world who could, as a practical (practical, not legal) matter, request that Holder not appoint an IC. President Obama.

But that wouldn't be proper. Interfering with an AG's independence in the decision to appoint an IC is a Bush/Nixon kind of thing. Keep in mind that Holder would have an obligation to appoint an IC to investigate Obama himself should there be a reason to do so. That's why it is his independent decision.

And there are no legitimate political considerations in the AG's decision. Holder is not allowed to consider two-terms or backlash or moving forward or any of that stuff.

Every time anyone explains the motives for Obama's decisions in this matter they are accusing Obama of malfeasance. In this matter it is not proper for Obama to have motives or make decisions. (And his public comments about prosecution, as well as those of subordinates, are implicit interference with the independence of the AG.)

In this decision Holder serves the American People, the Constitution, the Law, principles of equity, his conscience... but not the President.

So all any of us should expect, even demand, of President Obama is to not have a position, let alone decisions.

At most (and even this is questionable) he should look Holder in the eye and say, "Eric, by law this is your decision, not mine. And your only obligation is to justice. So if you consider what I or anyone else might want you to do you are failing me in performance of your job."

[ginnyinWI]

1. thank you!

This is the first post I've read on this topic that truly sheds some light, rather than heat.

If Obama were to start issuing pardons, then we'd have a reason to get excited. But as it stands, it looks like he's going to do exactly as you say--leave it to Holder, and IC, and probably ultimately Congress.

You are right: he's not a king or dictator, able to command justice for the Bushies. His job, as he has said, is to look forward.

[Beetwasher]

2. Well I'll Be Damned, People Are Finally Starting To Get What I've Been Saying For Weeks

Now about Obama and DOJ.

[earthside]

3. Too Late.

President Obama has already interfered in the Attorney General's "independence" by telling him NOT to prosecute. So, I guess according to you Obama is already guilty of malfeasance.

WE, as the people who are in charge of this country and government, should be pressuring the Attorney General to prosecute war crimes. This is absolutely our duty, just like we urge the federal government to prosecute all other crimes.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. We don't know the particulars of the debate

But saying "we don't want to prosecute" does seem a pre-emption of the AG's role.

Though usually a cynic I am retaining hope that Holder may carry the day.

[HopeOverFear]

9. Obama would not dare interfere in an investigation Holder would start

He's not Bush

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

10. That's true

And if Holder marched out and announced the appointment of an IC I don't know that Obama could stop it even if he wanted to.

The question is whether it gets started.

[vaberella]

5. We need to pressure Congress and the Senate.

You need to rephrase the commentary. This is not ONLY about O. He may be in the highest position but we ALL know he doesn't have full power and control. Get it together. It's not about sending protests, outrage to the WH, it's about sending that stuff to our Congressmen/women and the Senate and the House Reps so they feel the heat and do something. This is more than about Obama and I'm fuckin' tired of everyone saying O needs to this or that. He's not really my deal because O, I know is aware he can't really stop an investigation if one goes through since that would be obstruction and he would ruin his political career with that move. He can't do any of that because it would be independent from him, (correct me if I'm wrong). I already saw McCaskill talking about letting it go...well people need to harass her. It's those people in power and control we need to be talking to so they could get their shit together and get things moving.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. If Congress takes the ball we are screwed

That's why Oliver North is a free man instead of just another felon. (IIRC, his conviction was over-turned largely because Congress gave him immunity.)

Congress would only make everything even more political. They are a political body.

My greatest fear here is that Congressional activities will be seized on as an ALTERNATIVE to the proper process of law.

[vaberella]

7. So then who do we force to take on the responsibility.

The situation is political enough I don't know how much more it can get.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. I retain hope for an IC

It is so much the right answer that I just cannot wrap my head around the idea of it not happening.

It's not just right, it's all but required by law!

I think Obama is on the wrong foot on this and in a position he won't be able to maintain. But it will take continued pressure from the opinion-making class.

I was disappointed that Eugene Robinson wasted a column on Chavez today. Every major op-ed writer should be hammering away at the need for an independent counsel.


But if a proper independent investigation will really, really, really not happen then yes, Congress can have at it.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. .

[Realtalk]

11. Yep

Exactly.

[Occam Bandage]

13. Looks like you got your wish.

Obama's leaving it up to Holder.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

16. Excellent

[chill_wind]

14. That is why the ACLU Petition is directed to AG Holder and not President Obama

"You alone are charged with making the determination of whether and how to investigate crimes that have occurred."

https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=Nat_Petition_SpecialProsecutor&s_src=UNW090001ACT&s_subsrc=flyer&JServSessionIdr009=sjsqqdlqw2.app25a


Is why Congressman Nadler's letter is directed to AG Eric Holder, not President Obama..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8356764&mesg_id=8356863


Why direct appeals made by legal minds like Marjorie Cohn are to AG Holder...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5477496&mesg_id=5482237

http://marjoriecohn.com/2009/02/war-criminals-including-their-lawyers.html

**************************************************************************

Let's support those appeals:

( petition links )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8356181#top

K & R.

[chill_wind]

15. Check it out!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8360402

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

17. Very good news