Kiss UAW votes bye-bye.

[BobRossi]

And mine too!

[rucky]

1. I suspect GM was going to use the money to bust the unions.

And screw the pensioners even more.

Easily done with a Chapter 11 filing.

[BobRossi]

2. Clue.

The Obama administration is doing a fine job of union busting on it's own.

[natrat]

3. obama just a spokesman foe smithers

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[damonm]

83. Explain with examples, please.

[Birthmark]

4. Green?

Gotta go somewhere. Green seems as good a place to waste a vote as any.

[high density]

5. Go ahead and vote for the GOP

Gawd what is it with this forum? We're spending toomuch money. We're not spending enough. I want these jobs helped. I don't want those jobs helped. I love seeing money swirl down the drain at GM.I hate seeing money swirl down the drain at AIG.

[BobRossi]

8. If this is what passes for "change" I'd hate to see what doesn't. nt

[Political Heretic]

44. We're not allowed to be angry about union busting? When will this becomes DEMOCRATIC underground

again.....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. False allegations about union busting...

suggests you're not really a person who cares about unions.

[Political Heretic]

59. False allegations my ass.

You want to see me lose my normal middle of the road cool... start coming at me on unions, jackass.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. Can the maudlin crap.

Obama's clearly leveled the blame at corporate leadership.

Obama's doing everything he can for the unions, and the alternative to Obama's plan is their failure.

[TBF]

64. PH has posted copiously about his support of unions. I don't agree with

him on everything, but you're going to lose if you take him on in this subject area.

Favoring capitalism or socialism aside, those of us on the left either support workers or we don't, it's pretty simple. If we've got "leftists" bashing unions then this party is in big trouble in terms of cohesion.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. PH has posted a considerable amount of crap.

Particularly with regard to Obama.

[TBF]

81. That's simply untrue. PH was a die-hard supporter of Obama

before the election and worked tirelessly to get him elected. I have seen him question some policies lately, yes, but frankly those of you who aren't questioning some of the appointments worry me. Democracy is not a "spectator sport" and he is not our American Idol. He is our president and it is up to us to voice both approval and dissent where it is needed.

[Two Americas]

104. not true

This is just not true. PH was a tremendous supporter of Obama going back to before the election.

Nor has he "posted crap."


...

[Romulox]

6. My theory is that the Obama people feel that the Party's future lies in the South

Thus his move to the hard right after the election.

[billyoc]

7. Northern liberals have "We Have Nowhere Else To Go" stamped on their foreheads.

[Clio the Leo]

16. And that may just be working....

.... as I'm covinced that he's more popular here (in Tennessee) than he ever was before the election. Obama bumper stickers are becoming as common as UT Vols signs.

[Clio the Leo]

22. And my congressman Zach Wamp....

.... (GOP of course) sounded a LOT more reconciliatory on his recent Hardball appearance last week than he did a few weeks prior when he was on MSNBC declaring Obama's health care plan "pure socialism" and that health care was a "privilege." Last week with Chris Matthews he came down pretty hard on his own party saying they needed to get their house in order and quit letting Limbaugh be their face. It was like I was living in the Twilight Zone.

I suspect I wasn't the only one of his constituents who sent an angry letter to him after that first interview.

[Kalyke]

69. That has nothing to do with Obama.

That has to do with the fact that The Fighting Wamp (:rofl: ) is running for governor against the political machine of Pilot Oil.

Has any Democrat put his/her hat into the governor's ring, yet?

[Clio the Leo]

111. Yeah .... I think they outlawed democrats here in TN in 1995. NT

[dionysus]

31. "hard right" ? it's way too early to be drinking

:rofl:

[Romulox]

32. Trillions to Wall Street (no strings!) and busting up UAW is a Rightwing wet dream. nt

[dionysus]

33. please document where Obama has engaged in union busting activities...

:eyes:

[Romulox]

36. Er....Read the paper this morning? Obama is demanding "concessions" from Labor.

You know, the same sort of concessions he didn't demand from Citi, Aig, et al.? :hi:

[dionysus]

48. i am not a fan of union concessions, but i think "union busting" is hyperbole

:hi:

[Romulox]

54. Remember when Summers was going on about the "Sanctity of Contract!"?

How come that doesn't apply to UAW contacts? :hi:

[butterfly77]

85. So have you been in on the negotiations thus far?

[mkultra]

34. wallstreet was bush

please keep your anti-obama rhetoric confined to facts.

[Romulox]

37. Er, no it wasn't. Obama has funneled hundreds of billions more to Wall Street.

Please try to keep up. :hi:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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[mkultra]

49. again, wrong

Obama passed some corp bailout and the works program but the financial and investment bailout was TARP which was BUSH. thanks for playing. read a book.

[Romulox]

55. Read and learn.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/senate-dems-angry-over-aig-bailouts-2009-03-03.html

[mkultra]

58. from your own article genius

Federal officials announced over the weekend the latest installment in the series of bailouts, an additional $30 billion. The money will come from the $350 billion Congress approved for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) earlier this year.

His department is fulfilling a responsibility placed on it by legislation.

[Romulox]

62. So you are going to pretend Obama didn't approve this outlay?

"His department is fulfilling a responsibility placed on it by legislation. "

The legislation did not require the distribution of $30 billion to AIG in March. Nor can you provide any citation for this assertion.

[mkultra]

79. Well, Bernanke is the chair of the fed

and the federal reserve bank is an independent entity who is, in this case, responsible for the outlay of those TARP funds. the chairman is appointed to a four year term and i honestly don't know if the president can fire him but frankly, i don't think he can.
Obama has to wait until Bernanke's term is up in 2010.

So are you going to pretend that your outrage is still valid?

[Romulox]

80. The AIG giveaway is being co-ordinated through the Fed and Treasury.

"So are you going to pretend that your outrage is still valid?"

Uh, yep.

[mkultra]

86. co-ordinated?

what in the world do you mean by that?

I know that Geithner plans on using the rest of the TARP funds to pay for mortgage relief and to buy toxic debt. Both items which will relieve pressure on home owners. Not to mention the fed buy up of Treasury bonds. With the overnight lending rate so low and the initial TARP having stabilized banking, the banks are one step away from loaning money. They are, instead, investing in Treasury bonds for profit. When the fed buys up bonds, it will drive the rates down and the banks will start lending mortgage cash again in a deluge.

This could seriously fix the economy this year.

[Cha]

102. No one can keep up with the anti-Obama shit

you post..how about some fucking links.

[avaistheone1]

116. The wealth transfer has continued to the super wealthy.

[MarjorieG]

72. Reminder that no strings was the last admin.

[Romulox]

74. Reminder that Obama has forwarded billions MORE.

:hi:

[Fire1]

88. It fuckin better be! Btw, how's that FCA coming?? Haven't

heard or read anything on it, lately.

[phleshdef]

38. LOL @ "Hard Right", God you sound so foolish and extreme

[rucky]

51. maybe it's time to unionize the South, then. n/t

[Romulox]

56. Idiotic. nt

[rucky]

66. That'll teach me to earnestly address crackpot theories

about the future of the party. Here's some pictures, so you can understand:

[Romulox]

68. I understand all too well. (Btw, do you have the National Right to Work Committee bookmarked?) nt

[rucky]

70. no way. but the map's accurate, even though the source sucks.

[Romulox]

73. Accurate it may be, but it tends to amplify my point, not disprove it.

Viz: that Obama is abandoning the UAW in an effort to pander to the anti-Labor South.

And I do wonder about the tin ear of someone who would offer a map from that source in this thread. :hi:

[rucky]

75. Okay. My point is that he'd be f-ing crazy to do that.

and yours, too, I suspect.

[Romulox]

78. Well, I am working from the world as it IS, not as it "must" be.

I observe the Obama's admin's actions, and they are not designed to bolster union support in the North, this much is clear. :hi:

[Sebastian Doyle]

99. "forced unionism"

Just like in 1865, right? :eyes:

Can't actually do slavery anymore, so they have to keep things as close to that as they can get away with.

[rucky]

108. It's impossible to have a conversation around here anymore.

unjerk your knee

[Two Americas]

105. you defend that?

You defend pandering to the "right to work" crowd and claim that this helps electorally?

"Forced unionism?" WTF?

[amborin]

117. LOL, as if the UAW hasn't tried

[Cant trust em]

120. In what world does a $787B stimulus bill

and a budget that makes serious investments in health care, education and energy qualify as hard right?

[Vinca]

9. I'm not overwhelmed with sympathy for GM.

They've outsourced jobs and that has resulted in closed plants and the loss of many, many jobs. Despite years of lousy numbers, they still make cars people apparently don't want to buy. The root of their problem is healthcare costs, but I haven't heard them screaming for government-sponsored health coverage that would benefit everyone. Maybe because they're in bed with big insurance? The OP is worried about UAW votes . . . as if they'll go running to the arms of the other party that has the goal to disband them.

[Kalyke]

71. Actually, they did ask for government-sponsored health coverage.

Published: October 6, 2007

DETROIT, Oct. 5 — For years, General Motors has said it supports the United Automobile Workers union in its push for change in the nation’s health care system. Now the U.A.W. has persuaded G.M. to put its money where its mouth is.

Detroit autoworkers rallied for national health care in July. A new contract calls for carmakers’ money to research the issue.

In a labor agreement reached last week between the company and the union, G.M. has agreed to spend up to $15 million over the next few years to create a National Institute for Health Care Reform.

The pledge is contained in contract language that creates a voluntary employee benefit association, or VEBA, a health care trust that would take responsibility for G.M.’s $55 billion liability for benefits covering G.M. employees, retirees and their families.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/06/business/06auto.html

Just so you know.

[Vinca]

89. I wasn't aware of that. Is this the mechanism that dumped

retiree healthcare costs back on the union?

[firedupdem]

10. Rick Wagoner is not UAW. n/t

[BobRossi]

11. Ask any UAW member how they feel about this today.

Please.

[Ikonoklast]

13. Many of the UAW members I know, and I do know quite a few,

voted for McCain.

Still many 'Reagan Democrats' and angry, aging white men out there.

[firedupdem]

24. Half my family, my husband and I took buy outs last year and thats

why we are no longer in Michigan. We aren't surprised.

Also, autoworkers are concerned with bankruptcy. They don't want their contracts destroyed. Red ink Rick isn't of much concern. He was very very slow to react to GM problems. While he did some good, since when did we love executives so much? I'm more concerned with those working under a UAW contract. The rest of us took buy outs or got forced out and our jobs went to India or got filled by contract workers at half of what we were being paid.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[amandabeech]

15. So, those of us who live in Michigan or are from there cannot discuss

the strong possibility that this will not play well with Michigan voters and probably not with those from Indiana and Ohio, either?

Why is that Naderite? It is basic political calculus. I'm sure that Obama is aware of the problem himself because I guarantee that if Obama didn't see this, David Axelrod did and informed the President. Would that make Axelrod a Naderite, too?

[geek tragedy]

19. People threatening to vote Republican can fuck off and die. n/t

[BobRossi]

25. Whom has threatened to vote repub?

Please name one. Or do your DLC supplied wool lined sun glasses only allow you to see black and white?

[geek tragedy]

28. Okay, you're voting for Nader or McKinney.

That still makes you the enemy.

[bunkerbuster1]

53. Yep.

However, the OP didn't actually threaten to vote Gooper.

Although a vote for a third party is a vote for the GOP, so...

[olegramps]

14. What affect will this have on the overall recovery.

What I heard said repeatedly was that the failure of the American auto industry would be disasterous. Why is now okay to let them fail? How will this set with Main Street America that sees the banks and Wall Street crooks getting bailed out? How will the unions view this?

[Thrill]

18. He's not letting them fail. What are you talking about?

[amandabeech]

23. None of the groups that you mention are likely to be happy about this,

IMHO.

[firedupdem]

26. Who is letting them fail? Now if he poured billions more in with

no questions asked, people would be pissed and yelling "where's my bailout?".

[mvd]

87. Obama should not let them go bankrupt

I'll wait and see what happens.

[Thrill]

17. Why? I just heard The head of UAW felt better with Henderson in charge?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

30. Deleted sub-thread

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[safeinOhio]

27. If you folks would have only voted McCain in.

[BzaDem]

35. People who would consider voting for Nader or McKinney

are just as dangerous for the country as people who support liberal policies but vote Republican out of spite.

[KansasVoter]

39. If the UAW votes GOP because of GM the they can go to hell! How stupid are you?

[phleshdef]

40. Um, the UAW has no reason to be angry when the government is trying to save their member's jobs

You are really embarassing yourself here.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Teaser]

52. but it can be fun.

and you can make money off it.

[MarjorieG]

76. Dems support unions, card check, and Obama supported the sit-in and more. Said on 60 Min that the

only thing more unpopular than bailing out banks is bailing out the auto industry. Obama was in a no-win, as many of his decisions.

[krawhitham]

90. Without this GM would have killed the UAW

The AFL-CIO got Obama elected and he knows it. Wagoner's GM plan would have destroyed the UAW, so he was removed. The US Government employs more union members that any other employer in the USA do you really think they would go after unions?

Changes, MAJOR changes have to be made in save UAW jobs, it will not be easy for the UAW but it is better than having no job at all.

[Thrill]

42. Why would the UAW be mad? Hes trying to HELP them. And the UAW head wants Henderson

in charge.

[smoogatz]

45. Like there was a lot of GOP support for bailing out GM.

Oy.

[NYC_SKP]

46. Uh huh, and where's his Birth Certificate, right?

Or is it that you know better than to write that, so you go for the "Obama hates Unions" BS instead?

You won't be missed, we won't need your vote.

[Hutzpa]

47. Aaaaaahhhh!!

President Obama took your candy away from you, huh! not to worry, hang in there....

[jenmito]

50. Then we should kiss YOU bye-bye from the DU! n/t

[WeDidIt]

60. WAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

[brentspeak]

63. Go jump in a highway

[jenmito]

77. Look! Another DUer who doesn't support Obama!!!

[geek tragedy]

95. I've rediscovered the joy of the Ignore List.

First time I've used it since in the heat of the primaries.

[ogneopasno]

61. I hope so -- I hope unions really start putting their money where their mouth is. For years they've

helped people get elected and then sat there patiently waiting for the paybacks that never came...it's time for them to withhold their money, endorsements and shoe leather until politicians get it.

[totodeinhere]

82. If you are going to look at this strictly in political terms, then this might be a smart move.

For every vote like yours that will be lost, we will probably gain two or more votes elsewhere. There is a very strong anger in this country over bailouts. And voters in this class probably outnumber UAW workers by a wide margin.

I am not saying that Obama has formulated this policy for strictly political reasons, but you can never divorce politics completely from policy decisions.

[mvd]

84. Financial institutions should have been required to restructure

What makes them in better shape? However, as long as the government keeps the auto industry going through the changes, I'll be ok with things.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

91. Geithner is asking for permission to restructure them

I believe...

[mvd]

92. That's good

And the administration should work with the auto industry and not let them fail..

[stillcool]

93. Bye-bye...

[cwcwmack]

94. yeah right...

you gonna' vote PALIN or ROMNEY in 012?

[Sebastian Doyle]

96. Anyone who doesn't support unions should leave this fucking board right now.

Democrats support labor. Repukes don't. end of fucking story.

[Danger Mouse]

98. I thought we don't do the whole blind loyalty thing.

:shrug:

[MadBadger]

100. lol

[Sebastian Doyle]

101. There are core Democratic values that simply should never be compromised

Support for the unions & working class is one of them.

[Danger Mouse]

103. But that's assuming the unions are always right.

[liberalsince1968]

112. I agree with you. Obama only seems to care about helping the rich bankers.

[Thrill]

97. You realize Mittens wanted to bankrupt them in December?

Is that who you're going to vote for?

[Umbral]

106. Labor, organized or not, should have given up on the Democrats decades ago...

They've been nothing but shit on and used since Reagan.

[fujiyama]

107. Fine, you are free to vote as you please. I don't know where you will go though.

I still haven't seen Obama union-busting...

Should GM and Chrysler be producing thousands of vehicles that no one wants? If so, how long do they do that?

Yes, the bail outs of AIG and the banks was a colossal failure. Many of us knew it would be before it was passed. That's why I and millions of others opposed them. We knew that worthless CEOs and greedy execs would take the money and run, that it was a way to loot the treasury. I still think AIG should be completely dismantled and the banks should be nationalized.

But GM, as a company, and its own execs and CEO are not innocent. Where they are now is the result of years of mismanagement and I just don't know how long a country can simply prop up a company when no one wants to buy what it makes.

[PM7nj]

109. I think this thread is the last straw for me.

This place has become a cesspool.

[FrenchieCat]

113. Most of these nasties are dormantTroll pods who were just reactivated.

All one has to do is look at the number of posts for the number of years signed up and do the math.

Either poster usually has nothing to say,
or has been dormant.

[SoxFan]

110. I think this is yours

[leftofthedial]

114. anyone who is pro-worker

anyone who is pro-gay rights

anyone who is anti-war

anyone who is anti-PATRIOT Act

anyone who is anti-Wall Street status quo greed and crime

The anyones are starting to add up...

[Tarheel_Dem]

115. Don't let the doorknob hit ya'.......(nt)

[PBS Poll-435]

118. 21 folks scare the fuck out of me

Just sayin'.

[MadBadger]

121. I think you mean 22

[BlooInBloo]

119. Bye.