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The Nation - Nobel Laureate - Joe Stiglitz On Bank Bailout - Addresses Both Geithner and GOP Plan

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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:34 PM
Original message
The Nation - Nobel Laureate - Joe Stiglitz On Bank Bailout - Addresses Both Geithner and GOP Plan
Edited on Mon Mar-23-09 01:48 PM by Median Democrat
Here is an informative article by Stiglitz, who actually disagrees with Krugman's outright nationalization idea. Instead, Stiglitz actually favors a variation of the good bank/bad bank idea. However, as noted here, Krugman does not like the good bank/bad bank idea, so you have two liberal nobel prize winning economists in disagreement:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/anti-nationalization-arguments/

Stiglitz notes his criticisms of both the GOP Proposal to insurance bank assets, as well as Geithner's plan for a private partnership:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090323/stiglitz

/snip

The problem with America's banks is not just one of liquidity. Years of reckless behavior, including bad lending and gambling with derivatives, have left them, in effect, bankrupt. If our government were playing by the rules--which require shutting down banks with inadequate capital--many, if not most, banks would go out of business. But because faulty accounting practices don't force banks to mark down all their assets to current market prices, they may nominally meet capital requirements--at least for a while.

* * *

More recently, another idea has been put forward: the government would insure bank losses. By removing the risk of loss, the value of these toxic assets automatically increases, improving the banks' balance sheets. Bankers love this idea. The government can give them a big insurance policy at a small premium. Politicians love this idea too: there is at least a chance they will be out of Washington before the bills come due.

But that's precisely the problem with this approach: we won't know for years what it would do to the government's balance sheet. Six months ago, what the banks told us about their losses going forward was totally off the mark. AIG had to revise its losses by tens of billions of dollars within days. Real estate prices might fall only another 5 percent, or they could fall another 25 percent. With the insurance proposal, neither the government nor the banks have to admit the size of the hole in the banks' balance sheets. It's another example of those nontransparent transactions that got Wall Street into trouble.


Even worse, the insurance proposal exacerbates incentive distortions--it moves us from a zero-sum world into a negative-sum world, where increased taxpayer losses are greater than Wall Street's gains. The insurance proposal may even inhibit banks from restructuring mortgages, worsening the problem that gave rise to the crisis in the first place. If they restructure the mortgage, they have to book a loss. If they keep the mortgage and things get worse (the likely scenario), the taxpayer picks up most of the downside risk; but if things get better and prices improve, the banks keep the gains.

* * *

Still worse are proposals to try to enlist the private sector to buy the trash. Right now, the prices the private sector is willing to pay are so low that the banks aren't interested--it would make apparent the size of the hole in banks' balance sheets. But if the government insures private-sector investors--and even makes loans at favorable terms--they'll be willing to pay a higher price. With enough insurance and favorable enough loan terms, presto! We can make our banks solvent.

But there is a sleight-of-hand here: go back to the zero-sum principle. The private sector is not going to provide money for nothing. It expects a return for providing capital and bearing risk. But its cost of capital is far higher than that of government. The losses are real, and the private sector won't bear them without full compensation. This means that the amount the government is likely to have to pay in the end is all the greater.

This proposal, like so many others emanating from the banking community, is based partially on the hope that if banks make things sufficiently complex and nontransparent, no one will notice the gift to the banking sector until it is too late. It appears as if they are at last getting the high market prices that they hoped they would get all along. But it would be a misnomer to call these market prices, since the government has taken away the downside risk. This proposal has, of course, the further advantage of drumming up support from the hedge funders, who so far have not received any of the TARP bonanza.

There is an underlying problem facing all these proposals: the hole in the banks' balance sheets is bigger than the $700 billion Congress has approved--and much of what has been spent so far has been wasted. So the financial wizards are turning to tried and true gimmicks--the same ones that got us into the mess. One strategy is to hide the costs in nontransparent accounting (easier under the insurance proposal). The other combines this trickery with the magic of leveraging and pretends that leveraging carries no risk. The government sets up a "special investment vehicle" using, say, $100 billion of TARP as the "equity." It then borrows another $900 billion from the Fed--which in rapid succession has been tripling and quadrupling its balance sheet. Of course, in doing so the Fed is risking taxpayers' money--but without having to ask permission of Congress. At best, this is a deliberate circumvention of democratic processes.

/snip

Edit: Note that this article appeared on March 4, 2009 before Geithner's plan was announced and finalized.
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TheCoxwain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Opinions are like _________'s - everyone has one ...The problems is that
in the current economic climate - with so many different voices - I am not sure whom to trust anymore

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Aloha Spirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Me too. That's why I'm really glad for our country that I'm not in charge ;-)
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. All those Simon Cowells.
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. The Krugman v. Stiglitz Disagreement On Good Bank/Bad Bank Underscores...
How even two liberal nobel prize winning economists might disagree on how to solve the banking crisis.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I have a suggestion.....
Let's allow the person who has staked his presidency in the recovery of the United States' economy
give it a shot! After all, he will be held responsible if he chose wrong....not to say, like FDR, if his idea as put forth don't work, he can alway try some of the other ideas floating about. 2012 will be here shortly enough!

I like this plan of action.
Seems to be reasonable plan and make sense to me. :)
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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. kick
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. will the FDIC remain solvent? it's assuming terrible risk w/new plan
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. How did I know this was going to happen? Hmmm...
No two economists are alike and this was bound to happen. People here like to expound on Krugman for one reason or another, but you can't discount Stiglitz away since he's earned his position in his own right to fall within the same league as Krugman. There's a choice here as there are many.
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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. James Galbraith has also come out against the Obama plan. He seems deeply troubled
y it. Says it will enlarge the finance sector while we need to be shrinking it; that it will increase our indebtedness and will not increase lending to us.


I think this is a debate among economists that we need. Krugman, Stiglitz, Galbraith and a few others along with we the people.

I think it is becoming time for the politicians and the Wall Streeters-and Gaithner, Summers, and Rubin to sit down, shut up, and start asking questions instead of presenting plans we have not participated in making.


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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Stiglitz is in favor of temporary nationalization of a "Good Bank":
-snip-

One innovative proposal (variants of which have been floated by Willem Buiter at the London School of Economics and by George Soros) entails the creation of a Good Bank. Rather than dump the bad assets on the government, we would strip out the good assets--those that can be easily priced. If the value of claims by depositors and other claims that we decide need to be protected is less than the value of the assets, then the government would write a check to the Old Bank (we could call it the Bad Bank). If the reverse is true, then the government would have a senior claim on the Old Bank. In normal times, it would be easy to recapitalize the Good Bank privately. These are not normal times, so the government might have to run the bank for a while.
From the OP article:

-snip-

There is every reason to believe that a temporarily nationalized bank will behave much better--even if most of the employees are still the same--simply because we will have changed the perverse incentives. Besides, a government-run bank might spend some time and money teaching its employees about risk management, good lending practices, social responsibility and ethics. The experience elsewhere, including in the Scandinavian countries, shows that the whole process can be done well--and when the economy is eventually restored to prosperity, the profitable banks can be returned to the private sector. What is required is not rocket science. Banks simply need to get back to what they were supposed to do: lending money, on a prudent basis, to businesses and households, based not just on collateral but on a good assessment of the use to which borrowers will put the money and their ability to repay it.

Meanwhile, there needs to be an orderly plan for disposing of the old bad assets. There is no magic in moving them around from one owner to another. In some countries, government agencies (often hiring private subcontractors) have done a good job of selling off the assets. Other countries (including some hit in the East Asia crisis a decade ago) have had an unfortunate experience, bringing in investment banks and hedge funds to dispose of their assets. These institutions simply held them for the short time it took the economy to recover and made a huge capital gain at the expense of the country's taxpayers. To add insult to injury, some even took advantage of tax havens to avoid paying taxes on those huge profits. These experiences suggest caution in turning to hedge funds and other investment firms.

Every downturn comes to an end. Eventually we will be able to sell the restructured banks at a good price--though, one hopes, not one based on the irrational exuberant expectation of another financial bubble. The notion that we will make a profit from the bailouts--which the financial sector tried to convince us were "investments"--seems to have dropped from public discourse. But at least we can use the proceeds of the eventual sale of the restructured banks to pay down the huge deficit that this financial debacle will have brought onto our nation.

-snip-
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. Not in agreement with the good bank/bad bank idea, but at least
he opposes Geithner's horrendous idea.
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. Stiglitz favors nationalization.
"Stiglitz, who actually disagrees with Krugman's outright nationalization idea. Instead, Stiglitz actually favors a variation of the good bank/bad bank idea."

Stiglitz says: "The news that even Alan Greenspan and Senator Chris Dodd suggest that bank nationalization may be necessary shows how desperate the situation has become. It has been obvious for some time that a government takeover of our banking system--perhaps along the lines of what Norway and Sweden did in the '90s--is the only solution. It should be done, and done quickly, before even more bailout money is wasted."

So you may equally well say that Stiglitz favors "a variation of" nationalization.
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Not Really. Good Bank/Bad Bank Has Very Different Pros and Cons
Edited on Mon Mar-23-09 03:20 PM by Median Democrat
I think it is correct to say that like Krugman, Stiglitz supports a significant intervention, but even Geithner's plan can be characterized as a significant intervention. For example, nationalization wipes out shareholder equity, while good bank/bad bank does not.
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I don't know the specifics here, but

Stiglitz: "It has been obvious for some time that a government takeover of our banking system (..) is the only solution." Isn't "a government takeover" the same as nationalization?
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Yes, and the OP is desperately splitting hairs to try and make a poin
But I'll already concede the point, which is economists often disagree.
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Krugman Specifically Rejects The Good Bank/Bad Bank Proposal
Edited on Mon Mar-23-09 03:58 PM by Median Democrat
So, I don't know whether it is splitting hairs. Indeed, to suggest that Krugman and Stiglitz actually agree is misleading. Krugman discusses the Good Bank/Bad Bank in the link I provided in the OP. Finally, if you believe I am misleading, then please put me on ignore. Thanks! :)
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I do believe you are misleading, but I don't need to put you on ignore.
However, none of it matters because I already concede your broader point, which is that economics often disagree.
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. You A Raise A Good Point - "Nationalization" Is A Loaded Term That Means Many Things
This is why its false to suggest that Krugman and Stiglitz really do agree, since you could characterize both proposals as "nationalization" when Kurgman spefically pans the "good bank, bad bank" proposal. In short, the label "nationalization" tends to obscure more than enlighten.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. Not quite. They agree that the current plan is shittastic.
Managed to unite economists on that one.
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