DU's problem right now: We have never had a Dem President with this board

[Jennicut]

So some of us don't know whether we should constantly hold his feet to the fire constantly or totally do nothing but defend him when the media and RW ers attack him nonsensically. We don't know whether to lavish praise on lefty voices like Krugman or slam them to the ground. I think the answer is we need a middle ground. People who post nothing but criticisms need to understand that Obama has done so many things that President McCain would never have. Obama is further to the left then CLinton imo and that is a good thing. His budget is far more progressive then anything Clinton would have put out. However, others who are ultra sensitive to Obama being criticized also need to understand that he is human and may make mistakes or policy decisions we do not agree on. He may not be to the left enough for some and that will always be a bone of contention for some posters as that is what their political philosophy is and that is okay. I just think we all need to be adults and reasonable. Does this make sense or am I just rambling? Probably rambling.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Yup. DUers truly don't know how to do anything but complain....

That IS, after all, why this board was founded in the first place.

[sampsonblk]

8. Is that what you got from the OP? (nt)

[BlooInBloo]

11. I don't sugarcoat things....

Which is somewhat ironic, since I love sweets.

[Jennicut]

16. LOL. I am a diabetic and so do I. Pure torture.

But seriously I am a bit wary when people start slamming other people because someone stepped on their hero's toes. As if one person holds the answers to everything. I really don't think Obama literally wants to be seen as a God like figure nor is Krugman anywhere near perfect himself.

[BlooInBloo]

18. :)

[sampsonblk]

2. You are making sense

One would think the answer would be simple. But judging from what I am reading, a lot of people don't see it my way.

Edit = typo

[uppityperson]

3. I can see that also. eom

[yurbud]

4. I think you have a good point, though those who try to shut down criticism are probably shills

who are here for no other purpose than to blunt real discussions of issues.

Think about it--would you go to some other board to urge people NOT to discuss?

[leftstreet]

5. I don't see where DU has a problem

:shrug:

[Jennicut]

9. Then you are blind. There is a lot of calling out of people and downright rudeness

Though nothing near the all time epic Hillary Vs Obama primary season.

[jobycom]

12. You should have been here in 01-02. Gore versus the Greens, DLC vs the Left.

It's always been this way. The funny thing is that the heroes become the villains. The first couple of years Gore was the DLC sellout, and Hillary was the progressive champion. You could start a 300 post flame war just by mentioning Michael Moore or Ralph Nader.

There are more plants then there used to be. Then again, there are more posters, too.

[leftstreet]

13. Well a few people are...uh, excitable about Obama as a personality

And, sure they may try to 'steer' opinion, but it's pretty obvious.

But criticisms of his policies and decisions aren't personal.

[Jennicut]

21. There are plenty of people who cheerlead for people other then Obama

[jobycom]

10. Bingo.

We are a discussion board. We discuss. The problem would be if we weren't allowed to say what we want (within a Democratic context, that is).

[WeDidIt]

49. Yeah, right

My ignore list is longer than it was during the primaries and there's no problem here.

Riiiiight.

[AllentownJake]

6. Anyone ever been to a local democratic meeting?

We are disagreeable contrarian people. Its why we are democrats to begin with. If we blindly followed or accepted dogma without questioning we would all be RW evangelical repubicans :shrug:

[Peacetrain]

7. You made a good point Jennicut... It is hard to find balance after fightng the right for 8 years

[Bread and Circus]

14. Let's attack him like an angry mob!!! Drive his popularity down into the gutter!!!

Then we will get everything we ever wanted...

Universal health coverage, demilitarization, more fairness for the average American worker!!!

/end sarcasm.

Seriously folks, people need to realize that Obama's popularity is directly proportional to their chance of actually getting all the things they've wanted for years passed.

If Obama goes down in popularity, you will get another Republican-lite Presidency just like you have with Clinton.

So, for all the Naderites, Krugmanites, and pitchfork wielding populististas out there...please consider the wisdom of your outrage.

[Solomon]

30. But, but, but, we have to criticize and tear him down because

that what he wants us to do. He would agree with us that we can't be americans unless we dissent. Hell, it's patriotic to dissent. So even if I never liked him in the first place, I'm criticizing and complaining because I have a right to dissent, not because I don't like the guy, even though I never liked the guy. Get it?

[terisan]

15. I do not agree with all of your analysis but you are certainly not rambling.

You post is clear and logical.

Thanks.

[Tommy_J]

17. To those who would criticize Obama --

-- just pause a minute first and imagine what you'd be feeling right now if McCain won. I would be considering Canada.

[Drunken Irishman]

19. What gets me is that I come to DU to get away from the attacks.

I'm not saying we can't criticize Pres. Obama, but I hear more whining here than I do in the MSM and on other boards I populate. DU has always been a place where I can get away from that crap and have a logical discussion with like minded folk. Unfortunately, too many are hell-bent on attacking Obama at every step and it's really making this place intolerable.

[Jennicut]

25. I hear ya.

We are over reacting to each other or maybe its just a general philosophical split between the moderate to liberal Dems and the really liberal Dems.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. Do you have a list of posters who don't understand that Obama is better than McCain?

It's funny that something certain posters "need to understand" has never been disputed by anyone here.

Like, ever.

Since you think some people "need to understand" something everyone understands just fine it seems you have set yourself as the arbiter seeking compromise between a real problem and an imaginary problem.

Nobody (sane) cares whether Obama is better than McCain would have been because McCain is not going to be the president and Barack Obama is, in fact, the President of the United States.

It is utterly and crashingly irrelevant, let alone central to the problem.

The problem is that some demented, hateful people have really weird psychiatric issues regarding the need for all to profess their servile obedience to all things Obama and those issues translate into bizarre, hostile, delusional online behavior.

[Jennicut]

22. Right. I think there is plenty of infantile behavior on all sides.

Maybe I worded it wrong, sorry.

[empyreanisles]

24. If you were black, you would understand why we are protective of him.

You're used to having YOUR Presidents. I am experiencing something new and don't need you to SHIT all over it constantly.

[Jamastiene]

28. Uhm...

He is OUR president and we ALL are experiencing something new. ;)

[ruggerson]

36. Is this a joke?

(I hope.)

[empyreanisles]

46. No, I'm serious.

If Hillary had won, certain women would also take unfair criticism personally. That is what is happening here.

In Obama I see a new way in which the general public can view black Americans so I simply will not accept frivolous criticism. Wait until he screws up BIG TIME to open your mouth.

This is a colossal mess we have and I am giving my President the space he needs to get the job done.

[ruggerson]

47. I agree with giving him the space and time to succeed

but not because of the pigment of his skin, but because he's a bright, intellectual, forward thinking, creative Democrat.

But then I'm not black, so I don't have a culturally vested interest in his success as a black man.

I do see where you're coming from. I mentioned in another thread that I think that every SCOTUS appointment he makes should be a woman to correct the imbalance on the court. And I've been a proponent of an openly gay cabinet member. So, yes, there are times when symbols mean a great deal and cultural assignations (maligned as political correctness or affirmative action by some) greatly help move us forward as a country.

[empyreanisles]

50. I was angry. Thank you for understanding.

Your response was perfect. :)

[Fire1]

45. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Cha-Ching!!!! Damn!

[treestar]

44. No but you could if you wanted to make a list of posters who seem

to think that "dissent" is an absolute requirement, no matter who is President, even if it's a Democrat, there seems to have to be criticism just on principle. Well with Obama the freepers will take care of that! They seem unware of this and namecall with any Dem supportive of Obama being a "hero worshipper" and all that stupid crap.

[Duke Newcombe]

23. We'll have NONE of that damned "reasonableness" on DU, please n/t

[lamp_shade]

26. Excellent point. I've wondered about this a number of times. K&R

[Raine]

27. Perfect sense

it's an adjustment after being on the losing side for so long to now be on the winning one. I had the same problem when Clinton became President (after 12years of reTHUG rule) you don't know whether to defend every single thing or be tougher on them because you want them to better.

[and-justice-for-all]

29. You do not want to put ANY President on a pedestal...

You are never going to get everything you want out of'em. So, dissent like a proper citizen and praise when they deserve it.

[immoderate]

31. Remember, we are the UNDERGROUND!

Let's contemplate what that means....






OK?

--imm

[ErinBerin84]

32. agree!

I think most people are in the middle, but there is a contingent who is too sensitive to Obama criticism, and another contingent who calls people who disagree with a particular criticism cultists or something. And both can get a little too self righteous for their own good, but they probably have good intentions. . We could all stand to address each other in a more civilized manner, but it is the internet, so I'm not holding my breath. Too many on this board, on both sides, think that there needs to be a consensus opinion on everything here.

[eridani]

33. Speaking about me, I complain about the same things I complained about before 1/21/09

That means I'm not complaining about the Ledbetter Act, reversal of Bushit rules and signing statements, etc. I appreciate all that stuff a lot, and I've said as much. I fucking well WILL complain about economic policies that remain close to those of Bushler, thankyewverymuch.

[Kaleva]

34. Rename DU "Code Pink Above Ground"

[Cha]

35. Thanks, Jennicut..at least we have

this reasonable analysis from you whether anyone pays attention or not..only time will tell:)

I'm just ecstatic we have a President who wants to fix this fascist crisis the bushits led us into.

Another thing to remember is some people are never satisfied and thrive on bitching.

[ZombieHorde]

37. Since Obama has taken office, DU has become much tamer,

as opposed to the primaries.

Some here will only post attacks, some will only post defenses, and most of us will fall in between the other two.

[rvablue]

38. Thanks for posting this. No, you aren't rambling and it makes sense ALTHOUGH,

you could've left Clinton out of it.

Frankly, neither you nor I know what kind of budget she would have put out, especially given how quickly and drastically things have changed since she's last spoken of financial and/or economic policies and solutions.

[ErinBerin84]

39. I'm pretty sure

the OP meant Bill Clinton, not Hillary Clinton.

[rvablue]

40. Don't think so. Read it again. Notice the use of "would've"... n/t

[ErinBerin84]

41. ok....

The Op can chime in to let us know who is right.

;)

[Reterr]

42. I agree with this post wholeheartedly

I hate the binary nature of DU. I hate being able to predict for some familiar poster names exactly what they will say on any issue/person.

Basically honestly, the so-called far-left and the so-called pragmatists on this board play off against each other. Each set plays off against the other side's straw men while many people lurk in bemusement at this process.

I honestly don't think either of these types of arguments:

Self-styled Pragmatist: "You are pig ignorant dear and don't understand how the whole world works. You just don't "get it"-how the real world/politics works."
Self-styled revolutionart leftist: "Obama is part of the same corporate machine that is oppressing the masses and we need a revolution where people take to the streets and drag CEOs out of their homes"

are stuff anyone outside of the narrow DU world can relate to. I know a lot of very political lefties-somehow none of them sound like the stereotypical DU poster. Wtfever happened to nuance, middle ground, shades of grey.

Here everyone neatly falls into some sort of stereotype. I know, I probably do too, but at least I want to try and be self-aware about it if I am.

[treestar]

43. I am going to defend him consistently for these reasons:

1. I do not want the Presidency to go to any repuke in 2012.
2. I do think thing we could do better (i.e. a very liberal president) in these times.
3. The M$M will do all they can to smear Obama and so he'll need defense much more than he needs to have his feet to the fire for a further left agenda.
4. Obama has respect for the rule of law and is not trying to destroy the system but actually put it back in (where * wrecked it). I can respect that even if it doesn't get us immediate or any * prosecutions or a leftist agenda - given where this country has been in the past 8 years, moving back to the rule of law is baby step number one.

As it is one can get plenty of practice defending Obama to righties by coming onto DU! And that without it being just quoting freepers and the like!

[WeDidIt]

48. I think DU attracted a lot of people who'd complain about the president's actions

no matter who the president is or what those actions are.

YMMV.

[Breeze54]

51. "People who post nothing but criticisms..." have a clue!

Unlike the rest of the sheep. :(