I apologize to all Deaniacs, you were right; Howard Dean wanted HHS after all

[EraOfResponsibility]

According to the article in HuffPo that madflo posted today, Howard Dean did in fact want to be Sec. of HHS. YOu all kept saying he did, however with no proof; but now we have the proof.

[Captain Hilts]

1. I don't understand the snubs to Dean and to Denyce Graves. nt

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. -->

[sufrommich]

12. So how did Rahm force Obama's hand?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. He didn't force it.

He, obviously, has influence and made a case for Sebelius. Ultimately, BO is responsible, though.

Are you suggesting that the CoS doesn't have influence with the prez?

[sufrommich]

19. I'm suggesting the buck stops with Obama . Had he

wanted Howard Dean for HHS , that is who would have had the job.

[Captain Hilts]

21. BINGO.

Enough of this 'if you approve of what the president does, credit FDR, if you don't like what he does, blame Eleanor' kind of shit.

[Pirate Smile]

47. I agree. He isn't a puppet. He makes the decisions - good and bad. It is insulting to act

like it is someone else's fault when he does something people don't like.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. Mostly true.

But if his CoS doesn't want Dean, it would probably tip the scales. I believe that that is what happened.





Eta:

Ultimately, BO is responsible, though. -RiF, in the post you responded to.

[Bozita]

3. Rahm Emanuel

[wyldwolf]

6. David Axelrod and Barack Obama

[EraOfResponsibility]

4. Denyce Graves the opera singer?

:)

[Captain Hilts]

5. Yeah, she's a DC homegirl and REALLY wanted to sing at an Inauguration event...

as she'd been an Obama supporter since before he was in the senate because of friends in Illinois.

She came out and said she'd LOVE to sing. She's had some tough years with a depression problem and she's really popular in DC. She recorded the mailbag jingle for the Tony Kornheiser Radio show even.

She has sung at a bunch of them and worries that singing for GWB once was the deciding factor. The music fans in DC were disappointed.

I don't think Emmanuel has the clout to blackball someone out of a cabinet position. There must be a reason Obama doesn't want him there.

[EraOfResponsibility]

7. I think Graves used to go to my high school

duke ellington school for the arts.

[Captain Hilts]

16. I think she did! Homegrown hero. Like Eddie Jordan. nt

[Solomon]

41. You went there? Great school

[Neecy]

67. I wonder what the deal is with Graves

She must be feeling a little put out - she wasn't invited to perform at any of the Inaugural events (I really expected to see her at the Lincoln Memorial event), she did a benefit in DC a few nights ago - no doubt hoping the Obamas would attend, and they didn't - and she certainly saw Jessye Norman front and center at the Ford's Theater event. Then again, Jessye has been a life-long Democrat and activist and Graves sang at Bush's second Inaugural, although she too is a Democrat.

She's performing at Ted Kennedy's birthday bash at the Kennedy Center later this week, so maybe she'll finally get lucky and the Obamas will attend.

[Captain Hilts]

71. Here's hoping so! nt

[krawhitham]

9. Dean got snubed because

He did not end the Primary when it was a forgone conclusion Obama had it in the bag, it was over after Super Tuesday, And the 11 straight Obama wins after Super Tuesday made it clear to everyone but Hillary and Dean

[Fleshdancer]

10. The DNC was suppose to force Clinton to stop her campaign?

How exactly was Dean suppose to do this?

[MadBadger]

11. Ummm...no.

Do you have any ounce of proof to back up your point?

[rpannier]

14. Dean does not have tge authority to do that

The Primary's are only over when the vote at the convention is taken and a winner is declared

For him to have 'ended it' would have violated Party by-laws and would have made it very difficult for Obama to unite the Party

[rvablue]

15. I had no idea that Dean had the power to "end" the primary. Last time I checked, we live in a

democracy and our party has bylaws.

The only person that could have "ended" the primary was Hillary by dropping out.

And frankly, I'm glad she didn't. The TV cameras were trained on Democrats into June, and, as we found out on Nov. 4th, if anything the long primary helped Obama, and didn't hurt him.

[Captain Hilts]

18. I'm sorry ALL the candidates didn't stay in longer. It would have kept the debate pulled...

further left than two candidates running for the center.

[Top Cat]

30. Agreed

[madfloridian]

31. That is not the truth at all. You don't get to make stuff up.

Updated list of my journal postings about the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1906

Florida Democrats invade Georgia
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1905

Dean told not to plan a vacation in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1902

Court decision on March 17 could determine who Democratic nominee is.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1897

Florida Democrats thought they would only lose "half" the delegates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1903

Dean says FL and MI would not negotiate with the DNC...took it public
instead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1888

Florida, Michigan and the Jackasses That Over-reached
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1890

Tampa op ed: "Arrogance Cost Florida Chance To Influence Election"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1875

Terry McAuliffe wants to change horses in the middle of the stream.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1882

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary
bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Jeremy Ring (D-FL) said "relevance is more important than "partying" in
Denver.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1836

The worst part is that this very day FL Dems still shift blame....
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1870

Is Hillary's campaign being run as a "shadow DNC" for her benefit?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1883

More Florida shenanigans and more insults to Dean from that state.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1858

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's
rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1827

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a
"voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the
DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to
let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local
email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in
chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument
here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone
call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to
Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had
to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I
must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary
that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get
near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527

[EraOfResponsibility]

56. Dude, let it go...Dean didn't get picked, we got Sebelius

Please learn to live with it.

[TheBigotBasher]

40. Dean is absolutely hated by the PUMA mob.

The PUMA mob who claim to be Clinton supporters but are in fact NeoNazi scum.

They hate him because he was pretty clear that the race should have calmed down. They also hate him because he enforced rules that ALL candidates signed up to.

There is nothing more Howard Dean could have done. His handling of the Primaries earned him undeserved hate and much as though it is regrettable (and I think he would make a brilliant HHS head) it is probably that which damaged him. However unfair that may be.

[Captain Hilts]

42. There is no PUMA mob. God, give it a rest. Five people, a telephone and a website. nt

[TheBigotBasher]

52. I am not defending them

or giving them any credibility. They are simply a tiny number of bigots given far too much publicity by the likes of fox. They are a group of fail and deserve nothing but ridicule.

They hate Howard Dean because of enforcing "da rulez" however all he could do was enforce the rules. He had no power to do otherwise.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. yeah, and the puma mob is CLEARLY in charge

:eyes;

[inna]

46. utterly ridiculous.

:rofl:

:rofl:


remember, this is a democracy. it's not up to Dean to "end the Primary".

[960]

58. Nah, Obama should have made Dean VP since he threw the primaries

to Obama by royally fucking FL & MI.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

68. no. this is not primary related. else hillary would also not have been appointed

[Captain Hilts]

72. Stop making sense!

[hedgehog]

8. I wanted Dr. Dean for president 4 years ago - in fact I found

DU because I was working nights and went looking for primary results on my lunch break.

BUT -

We all want health care reform desperately, and if Dr. Dean were in charge, would the story be reform or would it be him? I'm not blaming Dr. Dean himself in any way, shape or form. It's just that we have to deal with the unholy alliance of the Radical Right, Big Pharma, Big Healthcare, the Insurance companies and the Media noise machine. It would take less than a New York Minute before the story of the day would be that an out-of-control Dr. Dean is imposing socialized medicine on us. I'm sure we'll see some variation of that story soon anyways, but we shouldn't hand it to them on a platter. It wouldn't do health reform or Dr. Dean's reputation any good.

[EraOfResponsibility]

13. I agree

[madfloridian]

20. Read my rant. Dean's out on his butt because he spoke out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8237681&mesg_id=8237899

[EraOfResponsibility]

24. awwwww

:nopity:

Here's an idea: Move to the Green Party.


:eyes:

[inna]

48. wtf? there's nothing wrong with the Green Party, fyi. nt

[EraOfResponsibility]

53. You're right there isn't, in fact...I predict the Green Party

will soon replace the Republican Party. I'm not kidding, either. The GOP's not long for this world.

[inna]

54. "the Green Party will soon replace the Republican Party."

ROFLMAO~!!!! thank you, thank you for the laugh of the day~!!

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:


(wipes off tears)

[EraOfResponsibility]

55. Wait, first you say there's nothing wrong with the Green Party

then you laugh because I say that it could replace the Republican Party? You don't think that could happen?

[inna]

60. that was a classical case of internet misunderstanding, as far as i can tell.

if what you meant was the Greens replacing the Repukes as the only alternative to the Dems... i'm all for it, but - coming from a realistic perspective - i don't think it's likely to happen.

what i originally replied to, however, was what i perceived as a lame and uncalled for snipe at the Green party.


(like i said.... it's just too easy to comletely misinterpret things on 'internets' )

[MarjorieG]

23. Not personalities but legislative experience and bi-partisan creds important. He's important as...

the outside voice, independent, similar to what Reich provides on the economy.

I know he supports Obama's campaign plan to transer people to Medicare where possible, to begin universal and single payer.

[Raineyb]

62. So what is Dean lacking since he like Sebelius was a GOVERNOR

That makes no sense.

And while Dean may support universal health care and a single payer system Obama does not.

Regards

[MarjorieG]

65. Not to diss Dean and millions of supporters, but he is the face of the DNC successful strategy.

The qualities we like don't necessarily transfer.

[Raineyb]

70. But you said that the job needed legilsative experience and bi-partisan

creds. Despite his stint as the head of the DNC Dean has both. At least as much as Sebelius has so that can't be the rationale for snubbing Dean.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

25. HD deserved the slot, but Obama has shown he knows what he's doing.

[EraOfResponsibility]

26. I agree

[mmonk]

27. He was the perfect pick for the job.

Dr. Dean from Vermont no less. But politics trumps best picks.

[emilyg]

28. I wish he had gotten it.

[dkf]

29. I'm so sad he didn't get it.

I don't know anyone who deserves it more. And he was the first smartest guy I know.

Obama is the second.

[mascarax]

32. Me too

It's a damn shame that Howard Dean is not HHS or Health Czar (whatever it is/was).

[karynnj]

35. Speaking of that will there be a health Czar - nothing suggests Sebilius will be that as well.

I have heard nothing - a friend asked me if Daschle will have that post, which doesn't need confirmation. (I suspect not - as Obama could likely have pushed Daschle through at a political cost that could exist if he were picked as the Czar.

[debbierlus]

33. It should have been his - he should have gotten any damn thing he wanted -

After what he did to get Dems elected and get Obama elected - it is a slap in the face. It should have been his - no question.

See my journal entry on Sebelius, btw, the insurance companies are very happy she was the choice.

[Undercurrent]

34. .

Not really a response to the OP, but general statement about the whole Dean flap.

Nobody "deserves" a cabinet post. That is called cronyism, or political favors.

Obama chose who he wanted, could work with, and do the tasks he needs done.

No one knows anything for a fact about how well Dean and Obama get along, and could work together. All of this about slights, Rahm's roll, the primary etc is conjecture. Someday maybe we'll know more when historians write their books, but even then they'll be many versions.

I like Dean. He has a good heart, and a keen mind, but Obama is our President, and the call is his.

[KittyWampus]

36. Wow! A DU'er known for posting crap posts crap she found at Huffpost and you believe it.

[EraOfResponsibility]

38. I know, I know, what are ya gonna do?

:)

[Teaser]

37. Don't much care.

Maybe Dean at HHS would serve to further the consolidation of progressive power and implementation of progressive policy, maybe he wouldn't.

Have to wait and see how effective O's choice is.

[EraOfResponsibility]

39. Well this post proves they don't call them "Deaniacs" nothing lol

[Clio the Leo]

43. It was clear on his recent appearance on MSNBC that he wanted it....

.... Hardball I believe it was. Tweety said that he really thought that he should get the job and Dean's eyes lit up he got this big smile on his face. I said at the time it was obvious that he wanted the job, he even thanked Chris for "lobbying for him."

[Politics_Guy25]

44. He would have been an awesome HHS as well-n/t

[Jennicut]

45. I think its kind of pointless to speculate why Obama did not want Dean

I am disappointed he was not picked but unless you are the President and in his inner circle there really is no "real" reason that we know. The buck does not stop with Rahm, I think Obama has made it clear many times it stops with him. So Obama had a problem with Dean over something.

[regnaD kciN]

49. "The buck does not stop with Rahm," BUT...

...can there be any doubt that, if there are two valid candidates for a job, and the CoS makes it clear he strongly supports one candidate and dislikes the other even more strongly, that the President will probably go with the CoS's recommendation unless there are very strong reasons for choosing the other candidate?

Dean would make a great HHS secretary, but even I don't think he was so drastically above any other potential candidate that Obama would be ready to risk embarrassing his CoS by picking him.

I'm just sorry that Emmanuel was such a horse's ass about Dean before the 2006 election (fighting him every step of the way, then claiming credit for the result of Dean's strategy). I'm not saying that Rahm might not be an extremely capable CoS, but the way he conducted himself in his "turf war" with Dean was shameful, and the fact that he's continuing to nurse that grudge and blacklist Dean from the administration is highly regrettable.

[Jennicut]

50. I still think blaming Rahm for this is childish. Obama can be held accountable for wrong decisions.

I actually have no problem with Sebelius as the HHS secretary but would have prefered Dean. However, is it so crazy to think that perhaps Obama thinks Dean is too partisan to get heath care reform done? Not that I think Dean is but maybe that was one of Obama's problems with him. Who knows? I think its rather babyish to not look at the President as making the ultimate decisions on things when he even has admitted when he has screwed up and taken the blame on things. Sorry but its his decision, not a chief of staff's.

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

51. What the hell? Why would they give this job to Sebelius who could have given them

an automatic Democratic seat in the Senate and been a great ally for the President?

Dean has been stereotyped as some sort of crazy partisan by the right. He's been proven to be one of our best DNC heads. He should have gotten the job.

[MadBadger]

57. Because she didnt want to run for Senate?

If she really wanted to, she would have said no.

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

59. HHS may have been the job she wanted more than the Senate job, but that doesn't mean

she wouldn't have run for senate if she weren't chosen, especially if enough people were saying she should to get the seat to be Democratic...

[Dawgs]

63. Agree. Democrats need to do everything they can to get more votes in Congress.

Hopefully Obama understands this, and maybe knows something we don't about the Kansas Senate seat.

[PopSixSquish]

66. While Gov. Sebelius is Very Popular in Kansas

I don't agree that it's an automatic Democratic seat. A lot can happen in 2 years. President Obama himself being a perfect example of that.

Why wait for maybes, when you can make a contribution right now?

[BlueMTexpat]

61. Thanks for the apology.

Let me be clear, I support Obama wholeheartedly and believe that he has made a LOT of excellent to outstanding moves ... and he's just been in office over a month now. May his efforts continue to be successful!
But I believe that Obama not only made a BIG mistake here, he made it in such a way as to look petty, which I find uncharacteristic for someone who has much more class than that. After all, he had not one but two chances and he quite deliberately did not even have Howard on his short list the second time around. Whether it was Rahm's influence or not (and I firmly believe that it was), Obama's was the last word.
I have now cancelled my recurring monthly contribution to the DNC (the only one of the national *D* organizations that I contributed to ... I ceased contributing to the DLC, DSCC and DCCC in the 90s when I realized that their main purpose was to re-elect incumbents with Ds after their name, instead of Ds who were true to progressive D principles ... and that was only because Howard was Chair).
That contribution will begin going to DFA the moment that Howard returns.

[DuaneBidoux]

64. I think Obama's strategy with Sebelius is to pick off states like Kansas gradually.

I don't know if it will work but I think his general idea is to gradually get some Dem stars developing out of the heart of Republican territory for the future.

I do think Dean is much more qualified than Sebelius and I think the national results with Dean would have been much better but it is a strategic bet on the part of Obama to try and begin to edge into solidly Republican territory.

I just hope Kansas can stick with a Dem after this. I'm not sure how it works there.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. wow, you sure are passive aggressive. nt