Approach for finding the veracity of the Killian documents ...

[lanparty]

It seems to me that no one has interviewed the REAL experts in identifying typewriter print, the FBI.

One of the primary ways of authenticating documents was tracking down what typewriter made the marks. There should be hundreds of active and retired FBI veterans who could look at these documents and TELL YOU what typewriter (if any) made the print.

The "Times New Roman" theory is bogus because the 8s and Hs clearly don't match up. The fact that the fonts are similar is not surprising since Times New Roman was based on a previous Times font.

The key here is finding a typewriter that makes a Times font using proportional spacing with a raise "th" character.

Of course, the other approach is to look at Killian's OTHER documents and determine if the typeface is consistent. I would bet a lot that Killian didn't type his own stuff. Rather, he had a secretary do it.


Regarding "Killian retired from active service". Is this a retirement from regular Air Force to part time guard service???? Are the freepers once again playing with words????

[htuttle]

1. I have an easy solution

How about someone just ask Bush about it?

Did he disobey a direct order to take his flight physical?
Was he suspended from flying for skipping his physical?
Did he skip his Guard service in Alabama and Massachussetts?

These questions are raised, not by the memos at all, but rather by official, Pentagon-released documents who's veracity is unquestioned.

So how 'bout somebody just ask Bush these questions?

[olddem43]

2. And you would expect to get a straight answer?

[tmooses]

3. Because

He's a serial liar.

[dansolo]

4. Or prove that the document could not have been created in Word

I think the issue of finding an old typewriter is a red herring. It is quite easy to demonstrate that the document could not have been created in Word. It is true that Word can recreate a document that looks really close, but any forensic document expert should be able to see that the Word-created document is not the same. Any one who claims otherwise is either unqualified, or is lying. Even the evidence in the stupid web site that started all of this disproves his own hypothesis if you know what to look for.

[lanparty]

8. Compared to WHAT????

The accusation is that the document is an outright fraud, not a clever copy with subtle discrepencies.

I will tell you uncategorically that ANY typeset is reproduceable using computer imagery. There are programs out there that do just that. You scan a document and identify the characters. It makes a font from them. Shit, you can do it with your printed text.

Yes, the document CAN be reproduced using word. Without knowledge of it's origins, we can vette for whether it COULD be authentic. We can only DISPROVE, we cannot PROVE.

I think everyone here should consider the possibility that the document is a forgery. I daresay, it would be a brilliant move on Karl Rove's part to plant a phony document that can easily be refuted and make Dan Rather look like a fool.

No, we have to identify WHICH typewriters this document could be produced on. It needs to have a special superscript 'th' character. It needs to have been produced before the document allegedly was written.

[DWRoelands]

5. USA Today did exactly that

LanParty: USA Today took your suggestion! :)

Gerald Richards, who examined the documents on behalf of USA TODAY, is a document authentication expert who worked for the FBI for 20 years and was chief of its document examination and research unit. He said there was a typewriter available in 1972, the IBM Composer, that could have produced the elements in the memos attributed to Killian. But the machines were not easy to use and were expensive, he noted.

Richards qualified his assessment by pointing out that analyzing documents from copies rather than originals is less precise. He estimated that the copies given to him were at least third-generation copies.

"It is highly probable that (the original memos) were computer-generated," Richards said. "And it is highly probable that they were not generated by a typewriter vintage circa 1972."

CBS is making some sort of statement in about an hour (noon, Eastern time). Should be interesting.

[Bandit]

7. Has zero to do with the questions asked.

Did bush* refuse an order to take a Flight Physical and if so Why? Forget the documents that CBS has and use the one's the Administration has. It is documented Bush* was suspended from flying for refusing to take a required Flight Physical. Why. Why. Why. Why. Why.

[lanparty]

10. True ...

And Bush's formal record SHOULD have something in it regarding that suspension. Did they produce that document as part of their dumps???

This may be a psy-ops operation by Karl Rove to throw people off the scent and make the suspension story sound fake without having to lie.

[lanparty]

9. IBM Composer guys say that ...

The IBM Composer was a typesetting machine, not a typewriter.

The probability that these are fakes are growing in my mind. I just reviewed the documents here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-09-09bushdocs.pdf

None of the signatures are consistent with each other. The one in question regarding evaluation has a completely writing style to it.

[Qutzupalotl]

12. The IBM Selectric Composer was a typewriter.

Typesetting machines are entirely different beasts. What they are implying is that monospaced typewriters were more common, which is true, but see my post below.

[Qutzupalotl]

11. Bullshit.

DU researchers uncovered an early 70's TANG requisition form for, among other things, IBM Selectric Composers.

[reprobate]

6. It doesn't matter. The media are on the repug side. truthisn't involved.