Obama has dropped the ball, bigtime on the Stimulus

[crimsonblue]

Team Obama has allowed the GOP and media to frame the debate on the Stimulus package. The republicans send wave after wave of people to tv, radio, and print, and Obama is allowing this to happen. Obama needs to personally address the American public about the stimulus package and beat back the idiotic republican memes. He needs to understand that republicans will not vote for the package unless either: a) it has absurd amounts of tax cuts, or b) republicans receive a lot of pressure from their constituents. Obama needs to encourage people to contact their congressman and senators to make them vote for the package. There are a whole host of GOP congress critters that live in districts that went for Obama. Why isn't Obama using this?

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. Good

There should be no artificial stimulus. Apply strict regulation and let the markets work.

[crimsonblue]

9. keep saying that when we fall into a depression.

it was government spending that got us out of the Great Depression. WW2 just accelerated the government's spending and created millions of jobs. Unemployment during WW2 was very low. Now, I'm not saying we need another massive war, but we do need the level of spending that came with the war. Now, had we used the Clinton surpluses to pay off our national debt, then we could easily afford to through trillions at the problem to make it go away. As is, it looks like my generation is going to be paying for your wars, tax cuts, and social security for decades to come.

[sandnsea]

24. Look at military spending under Republicans

And how much of the economy it fuels. Nobody ever talks about the billions of dollars of armament waste as economic spending, but it is and it's much less beneficial than roads, school and hospitals.

[crimsonblue]

I agree wholeheartedly with that.

The national defense budget needs to be slashed in half. The government needs to restructure the way it does contracts. The government can no longer provide, cost+, no bid contracts. And when a company goes over budget on a project, then that should come from their pockets, no tax dollars. It isn't the government's fault that a company cannot live up to the terms of its contract.

[rainy]

31. Instead of war spending stimulating the economy I see re-renewable energy

spending as the way forward.

[crimsonblue]

37. I'm not saying War-spending...

I'm saying we need to spend as much money as we did during WW2. I agree that we need to drastically overhaul our energy grid and sources. The only thing keeping Kansas from being completely wind-powered is the lack of transmission lines in western Kansas.

[Cronus Protagonist]

71. Government spending is one thing, handing cash to banks and corporations is another

Apples and oranges.

[sandnsea]

16. And FDR was a socialist too?

Is that your position?

[Cronus Protagonist]

72. You're the first person to mention that

So one wonders why.

:P

[sandnsea]

73. Maybe I know you better

than some of the others.

The free market got us in this mess and adherence to that dogma is the last thing we need right now.

[Cronus Protagonist]

74. I doubt it

I never mentioned FDR OR Socialism, and if I did, I would support it because it worked for me in the past.

And did you not notice I mentioned regulating the markets? I did not promote "free" markets, and I never supported said in the past. As for FDR - all I know about him was from a recent PBS documentary, and if he supported building of bridges, power lines, roads, parks and such like, I'm ALL for that because that is the path to get us out of this hole... full employment and a strong infrastructure, neither of which will be achieved by handing cash to fascist CEOs in banks, industry or anywhere else for that matter.

[Richardo]

2. ..

[nini]

7. Thank you!

The fact people still don't get how this guy works is beyond me.

[rufus dog]

69. yup, yet another Obama fucked up thread

Only to be proven wrong later.

[CreekDog]

I'm with you

People are always thinking he's getting rolled.

:eyes:

[daninthemoon]

48. that's beautiful. he has no time for childish partisan crap.

[AtomicKitten]

60. +1

[EFerrari]

3. I don't think so. I think he's letting the Republicans hang themselves.

After they do that a few times, maybe they'll be easier to work with.

[LittleBlue]

11. Exactly.

Any criticism of inaction when the market tanks will not be attributable to Obama.

[Andy823]

27. I agree.

He is giving them enough rope to hang themselves, and they can't see it! Many of them are to ingrained in the old politics of Bush, and think they have to try and make anything Obama does fail. Well the problem with that is americans want something to work and stop the downfall of our economy. The republicans that are to stupid to see what is going on will have a hard time in the next election. A lot of republicans and independents voted for Obama, and the new democrats in congress because they were tired of what was going on in D.C. the last 8 years. Obama knows this and I think he and his team are going to use his support of the american people to get rid of the republicans that are fighting any kind of change!

[EFerrari]

30. We're in a very very serious crisis. The Republicans just look petulant

and ineffective. Point, Obama.

[JuniperLea]

29. I agree!

When you listen to them, the Obama rebuttle is almost audible. He knows when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em, and when to let the Republicans dig themselves into a dark pit, and when to turn on the flood lights.

[EFerrari]

36. This may turn out to be very satisfying. A poker play and hoopster.

:evilgrin:

[JuniperLea]

40. That's exactly what I expect!

Those idiots are used to incompetent bunglers and cronies and pre-determined outcomes. I think it will take them running into a few brick walls before they realize there's a new kid in town:)

Fake-outs might be mental in poker, and physical in hoops, but these dumbasses aren't used to being on the receiving end of either:) This could get delish!

[Shakespeare]

45. Exactly.

This is a huge gamble for republicans, and one that probably won't work. Fine, let them stomp their feet and vote against it. They'll pay for that later.

I'm more and more comfortable with how Obama is handling this, especially after offhand (and freaking snarky) comments like the one in today's presser after the Hill meeting. "I'll watch fox news and feel bad about myself." I think that shows exactly how askeered he is of the GOP. Obama knows they're in the minority, and I think some people here forget that from day to day.

[Hansel]

61. Agree. It is his MO to hand his opposition rope, let them put it around their

necks and then kick the chair out from under them.

He's simply not that easy. I think he knows who he can work with and who he can't. He will give them a chance, but I almost feel sorry for the Republican leadership trying to match wits with him. He's going to make them look very foolish if they don't abandon their Limbaugh strategy. Can't say he didn't warn them though.

[smoogatz]

68. He's going to give them every opportunity to get on board.

They'll vote against it, hoping not that it doesn't go through (it will), but that it fails--as conservative dogma instructs. Obama's betting the stimulus will have a broad and significant impact (it will--it's a shitload of money, and to the extent that it funds public works people will actually see stuff getting done and people working), and then we'll have even bigger majorities in 2010 because the Republicans will look like a bunch of uncaring obstructionist assholes, which is essentially what they are. They're in a box, but they're too dumb or too ideologically bound to know it. Or both. First rule of the Obama administration: underestimate him at your peril.

[NYC Liberal]

4. I think Obama knows what he's doing. But maybe that's just me.

[Andy823]

33. Not just you.

There are millions and millions of americans that feel the same way, and you are not alone! :thumbsup:

[Lucky 13]

63. oh it's not just you.

Until Barack Obama gives me REASON to doubt him, I'm not going to. When he officially "fails" at something, feel free to smack me out of my sheer elatedness and I might have something different to say. Until such time, he is still, without question, the smartest motherfucker in the room. So chill the fuck out. He's got this.

I love how despite the fact that he built the smartest political machine... well... maybe EVER, people seem to constantly think they are smarter than him and are constantly berating him with "advice". Here's a fact. If you think you're smarter than him... you're not.

[demo dutch]

5. Why don't you just wait and see how he does on this first task, instead of complaining! remember his

mantra is NO business as usual instead working together and compromise is the only way to work together

[daninthemoon]

6. don't know if i would say "dropped the ball". it's only been a week.

I'm hopeful that the non-partisan tone can still succeed. you are right though, he needs to speak directly to the people next.

[Avalux]

8. Nah. Obama doesn't need most of them to vote for it.

Just a few; and he will get that. Obama has made a bipartisan effort to include Republicans; those who are whining and decide to vote against it will have to explain to their constituents why. He's played this very well.

There's no need to beat back their idiotic republican memes - they are divided and no one is listening.

[crimsonblue]

12. There's no need to be inclusive.. The repubs sure as hell never are...

All we need is 1 republican senator to break a cloture. We don't need a single GOP congressman. I say strip the tax cuts from the stimulus package, and increase spending. We can surely find one measly republican to go along. Maybe like one of the ladies from the Northeast?

[JuniperLea]

35. It's called the high road...

I expect Obama will do many things that NEITHER party have done, but should have in the name of Democracy.

[dbonds]

10. This media machine of the right wing has been in place for 25 years

It will take more than just telling dem's to get out there and give their side of the message. They first have to develop a media machine that is receptive to it. But even if this existed this would be more with the house and senate leadership than Obama.

[crimsonblue]

15. ha.. the house and senate Dem leadership is non-existent.

and I believe that is part of the problem. We need strong-willed leaders in Congress. How about Waxman as Speaker, and Feingold or Todd as Senate Majority Leader. We need somebody hard nosed and unafraid to piss off republicans. What we don't need is pansy ass Reid. The only thing he is good at is sending out emails from Ted Kennedy and Barbara Streisand.

[dbonds]

25. I agree totally with you there.

[EFerrari]

34. I think the deal is that since Congress has abdicated their power

and their responsibility, Obama has to plan to work around them.

[JuniperLea]

38. I think Obama deserves a break on this

He and Biden haven't had a chance to crack their new whips yet.

[endarkenment]

13. Lucky for us Obama plays basketball.

Dropping the ball, letting it bounce back up, and moving at the same time is how one advances the ball down the court.

[Uzybone]

43. LOL

that is fucking awesome. I will steal it from you. I like the analogy.

[Lucky 13]

64. !

love it!

[sandnsea]

14. He's got time

If he doesn't know they don't give a crap about anything but themselves now, he will soon. Better he find out early and with something so important. He'll hit back when they leave him no other option.

[Thrill]

17. Obama has the Repukes looking like Obstructionist. He's playing this perfect.

[crimsonblue]

28. we need to make the GOP actually be obstructionists.

We need to force the GOP to make a choice. I say, let the GOP rail against the stimulus bill. How will americans react when the GOP allows a bill that can provide millions of jobs and help the economy to fail? Will americans be receptive to a party that is fucking over the will of the people? We cannot coddle the GOP, we have to force them to fail.

[Hard_Work]

18. Interesting...

Have you seen any reason to believe President Obama has suddenly lost his political astuteness? So far, he has been masterful at handling these situations.

[Jane Austin]

19. Do you really believe that that bunch of troglodytes is smarter than

Obama?

If he "caves" on anything it'll be because he put in stuff he didn't care about so he could throw them out when the Pubs balked.

That way, he looks all reasonable. :)

[EFerrari]

26. That's right. Like putting contraception into the bill and "caving" when it's taken out.

:)

[Lucky 13]

65. It was totally a trick.

The thugs bit on it. And some DUers.

I think he's just toying with these assholes.

[Jane Austin]

85. And letting the Rethugs stamp their feet that there's not enough infrastructure

in the bill.

Heeeeeee . . . .

Please don't throw me in that briar patch, now!

[frazzled]

20. You'd better get straight to Washington, then, and save this whole thing

The guy clearly doesn't know what he's doing. :sarcasm:

[Lucky 13]

66. Don't forget to suspend your campaign too.

[babylonsister]

21. Baloney. And you're not paying attention. He has addressed

the public, and does it weekly. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x264018

[crimsonblue]

42. very few people actually listen to those radio addresses.

What I meant was that Obama needs to hold evening addresses to the public on national tv networks. He needs to outline what he wants to do in the stimulus package. Maybe have a 30-45 minute address on tv to specifically outline his plan. Then, allow the repubs to attack it, and spin it heavily that they are trying to fuck the country. Get the backing of every major economist, and have them surrogate out their ass on tv.

[babylonsister]

54. How do you know how many people listen to them, since you didn't?

You're trying to shoot him down, and it's not working with me. Give the guy a break and let's see how he does.

And this was on tv today. Do people watch tv?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=265253&mesg_id=265253

[NYC_SKP]

70. Meh. This concern sounds so familiar, doesn't it?

"Obama needs to go on the offense against Hillary!"

"Obama has to come out strong against McCain!11!!!11!"

"Obama has allowed them to "Frame the Debate"...:rofl:

I'm just so over it...

.

[Born_A_Truman]

83. Yes, all the hand wringing I remember well...

Primary: Obama must fight dirty or he'll never win!
General: Obama must fight dirty or he'll never win!

Riiiiight.

[Parker CA]

75. Knowing Obama's game, he will likely make a pretty significant comment just shy of

an official speech on the need to pass this stimulus and get the ball rolling towards recovery. It may not be aired in prime-time, but it will be replayed and will come at a time that brings the complete (as complete as it can be) public attention to the issue before the vote. At that time, if the pukes do not lend enough support to make this pass or if they do so only by a tiny margin, they will do so in the face of public awareness.

Obama is a shrewd and skilled man. He is setting the opposition up so that they and their own actions will inevitably lead to their own downfall. Minimal effort expelled on Obama's part and a tremendous reward of self-detonated implosion of the pukes. Win-win for team Obama, and plenty of energy in the reserves for the next confrontation or battle.

[FrenchieCat]

22. He is dropping the ball into the basket.

I'm hearing "Swooch".....

[K Gardner]

23. Evidently you don't even read the news or watch TV if you think he's doing nothing. Good grief.

[BootinUp]

32. nonsense. nt

[democracy1st]

39. Obama administration needs to get their ass in check repugs are all over the screen,radio etc

[Thrill]

50. No Democrats need to be out there. Not the administration

Democrats need to stand up and make the case for the Presidents plans. Just like the Repukes use to do all the time for Bush

[democracy1st]

55. true I'm talking about having members of congress hit these shows to sell the surplus

right now the repubs have multiple reps appearing giving interviews,lying etc

[YvonneCa]

87. Try this...

...http://www.cspan.org/ Al Gore...making the case for Obama's Stimulus Package. ;)

[ikojo]

41. It seems Barack Obama has forgotten that he

won and has a real mandate.

If he, Reid or Pelosi cannot muster the spine to challenge the pugs on this then I hope he and Michelle do not get too comfortable in the White House because he'll be a one termer.

[crimsonblue]

44. my thoughts exactly. Obama is falling into the same Clinton-trap

he is trying to compromise with the devil. Well, the GOP will never compromise, because the only thing they care about is getting back into power. If Obama fails, then that's good for the GOP. Do you think the GOP cares about the economy? Doubtful... they've all got high-paying jobs, the best benefits in the country, and they have all sorts of lobbyist friends to help them out once out of office.

[Thrill]

53. WHAT? He's trying to do exactly what Clinton didn't do. Do you remember Clinton's stimulus package?

It passed with zero Repuke support and in return the Democrats got their ass kicked in the mid terms. Obama is living up to campaign promises and at the same time trying to get the Democrats in Congress some political cover.

[Shakespeare]

47. "I understand that and I will watch you on fox news and feel bad about myself"

Yeah, I'm thinking he knows exactly where things stand, and knows quite well he has a mandate.

[EFerrari]

49. Nonsense. He gave the Republicans an opportunity

to look bad by agreeing with him or to look bad by disagreeing with him.

lol

I hope the First Lady is settling into her office because she's got seven more years to enjoy it. :)

[Lucian]

51. I know, right?

[Thrill]

52. Obama is living up to his campaign promises

Scoring big points with Independents. While the Repukes are looking like they are standing in the way of progress

[ClarkUSA]

46. Wrong. Pres. Obama looks like he's reaching out while Republicans sound like they're whining.

Polls show that Americans want the plan and they want bipartisanship... which is the winning side here? President Obama?
Or the plainly obstructionist GOP?

[1776Forever]

56. I agree - I was thinking this last night. A lot of people don't know what is in it.

I went to the Appropriations Committee site and found the document but it is always changing. The latest is Jan. 15th.

http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/PressSummary01-15-09.pdf

[Peregrine Took]

57. That's what FDR would do - take it to the people. Use his political "capital" -

if not for this - for what????

[treestar]

58. This is very like many an OP during the election campaign

About how Obama is doing it all wrong. What was the result?

[jefferson_dem]

59. Much concern from the OP, Henny Penny stylie...

Barack's got this. Folks will learn to not underestimate. :)

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. He'll never win the election! He'll never win Pennsylvania (my favorite bit of idiocy)

And blah blah blah ad infinitum. The truth is, most people here, just like anywhere else, don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

[Lucky 13]

67. He's unelectable!!! zOMG!!

[book_worm]

76. Bunk. Obama knows what he is doing and they are dominating the debate not the GOP

if anything they are looking like obstructionists.

[Skittles]

77. correct

[Claire Beth]

78. I'm quite confident he knows what he's doing n/t

[nodramamama]

79. The media, not Obama, decides who frames the debate

And it so happens that the media is spreading GOP talking points as usual.

[KakistocracyHater]

80. Wrong, just because they soap-box screech

doesn't mean people believe them anymore, look to wealthy Liberals to start putting their money together like the Right has been doing for decades & creating a network, a direct communications system.

That whole bit about calling your Congress-critter seems really outdated to me; perhaps it's merely the last 8 years when calling them did not change a thing. Come up with something better.

[krawhitham]

81. Most Americans are for the package

He is playing it just right, making the rethugs look like that bad guys

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/economic_stimulus_and_the_many.php

[Life Long Dem]

82. And you need to pull yourself away from the propaganda box called your TV.

[JeffR]

84. Newsflash: He doesn't need Republicans to vote for it (though some will)

It's called a "majority" and he has it in both houses of Congress. Look it up. True thing.

[YvonneCa]

86. I think I heard he has enough votes without...

...them. He is trying to build bipartisanship. Besides, Al Gore testified today at SFRC...watch C-Span. He made the case for Obama's plan. :7

http://www.cspan.org/

[Jennicut]

88. LOL. Dropped the ball? He does not need the Rethugs and the media stinks.

Most of us here realize that the MSM does indeed suck big time.