How to Argue with a Kerry Supporter

[johnnyrocket]

Well, well, well, what do you think of this?

http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/federation09112004


How to Argue with a Kerry Supporter
By the Glorious Revolutionary Federation of Fortune 500 Killers

ABBite: We have to do everything we can to get Bush out of office!! Anyone but Bush!! Bush has just been a disaster!!!! We need to vote for John Kerry! Kerry-Edwards! Bush is sooooo bad!!

Questioner: How so?

ABBite: What?!?! WHAT?!?!! Look at him. He’s so stupid!!

Questioner: What makes you say that?

ABBite: WHAT?!?!!? Haven’t you seen “Fahrenheit 9/11”??

Questioner: Sure I have. It was awful. What’s your point? Naming a movie title isn’t much of an argument for Bush’s stupidity.

ABBite: He can’t pronounce words or sentences properly!!!

Questioner: Actually, he can. A recent article in the Atlantic Monthly by James Fallows showed that Bush throughout his 40s “was perfectly articulate.” Has it ever occurred to you that these verbal gaffes are intentional, designed to cultivate the non-elitist, everyman image that Bush has successfully pulled off?

ABBite: No.

Questioner: Congrats, you’ve played into Karl Rove’s strategy by focusing on Bush’s personality rather than any issues your candidate should be able to take the election with. Nice job.

ABBite: Well, a Bush presidency would still be worse than Kerry’s!!!!!

Questioner: How so?

ABBite: Uh, the war, hello?!

Questioner: But John Kerry voted for the war, as did almost all the Democrats.

ABBite: But he was MISLED by bad intelligence on WMD!!

Questioner: But John Kerry now says he would have still voted for the war even without WMD. Huh??

ABBite: Well, what about CIVIL LIBERTIES at home and the PATRIOT ACT???!!! Hello, the PATRIOT ACT?!?!

Questioner: Uh, John Kerry voted for the Patriot Act.

ABBite: Yeah, but it was right after 9-11. It’s not that he really supported it. That was just the climate at the time.

Questioner: Actually, John Kerry wrote sections of the Patriot Act and is proud of it.

ABBite: He did?

Questioner: Yeah. Try doing some research.

<...>

Questioner: Hello? You still there?

ABBite: Umm, well, what about tax cuts??!!

Questioner: What about ‘em? Kerry won’t repeal most of the Bush tax cuts. In fact, he chastised Howard Dean’s proposal to do so.

ABBite: Well, I still prefer a Kerry presidency. It would be better than Bush.

Questioner: Why?

ABBite: Well, gay marriage.

Questioner: Sorry, but John Kerry is a homophobic bigot who opposes gay marriage, and at best, wants to leave it up to the states. It’s kind of sad that mainstream gay-rights groups have all but stopped mobilizing around the issue for fear of making their man, Kerry, look bad.

ABBite: Oh. Well, uh, what about abortion!!?? What if Bush puts more anti-choice judges in the Supreme Court?

Questioner: What about abortion? Kerry voted for Scalia, the most right-wing Supreme Court justice there is. He also has said he won’t make pro-choice a litmus test for appointments. Also, abortion is not just a legal issue. In fact, a woman’s chance of having one is determined largely in economic and social spheres. In most areas outside of major metropolitan zones, it’s impossible to get an abortion, and Clinton did nothing about that. Middle and upper-class women can easily travel or leave the country to get an abortion. If John Kerry spent more time caring about poor women of color and their ability to get an abortion—instead of how the middle-class might benefit from keeping more of Bush’s tax cuts—then I’d start believing him and his apologists, like you, when you hold him up to be some champion of abortion.

ABBite: Our candidate is kind of pathetic.

Questioner: Yeah, he is. Vote Nader. He is anti-Patriot Act, anti-war, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, and for a complete repeal of the Bush tax cuts. Hey, at least you didn’t call me names, spit in my face, or focus almost entirely on the horse-race aspect of this election, as most Kerry-Edwards robot-drones do.

[Career Prole]

1. What do I think? It's a crap post, that's what I think.

Any other questions?

[Julien Sorel]

2. I think that Nadirite/Green straw man crap has no business

being posted here.

What do you think of it? What do you hope to gain by posting it except to stir up shit?

[bobbyboucher]

3. I'm afraid your in the "curious" group.

Curiously showing up and spewing shit while holding curiously low post counts and curiously carrying an ocean of Repug water.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[johnnyrocket]

7. Testy, testy! everyone!!

I already replied to Mickey Z:

----------------------
I defies logic to say Kerry=Bush, it really does. Here’s a GLARING comparison that’s not mentioned:

Bush is pure evil, Kerry is a liberal politician who wants to win an election.

Kerry is not Bush, and Kerry would have the liberal ear, hell, maybe even Nader’s! ( They did talk a few months ago, you know. )

So fine, it’s nice to be high and mighty…

but it’s nicer to be heard.
----------------------

Knowing what Kerry's up against ( from BOTH sides ) is important stuff...even Nader HIMSELF hasn't derided Kerry so badly.

[Chichiri]

19. Who are you voting for in November? (n/t)

[Generator]

5. Some people say a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush

Kerry supporters don't cotton to that, mister.

[seabeyond]

6. wishful thinking this is how a kerry person would argue

i assure you i would not. i didnt read it all but on the war issue alone, would have stopped so quickly on gone onto the next point

let em try that with me

[Capn Sunshine]

8. Maybe we should consider the message for a sec

and get Kerry to clarify? Qualify? Quantify? Articulate the BIG difference between him and Bush?

Naaa, let's attack the messenger.

[johnnyrocket]

9. Uhh, my point exactly....

inflection and tone don't alway come across in posts. The Naderites are sayings "why pick the lesser of two, bla, bla" and the right is actually pricking Kerry by saying his policies are the same as Bush's.

I found it interesting that Pat Buchanan who is against a lot of Bush's actions, said he's voting for Bush because Kerry's the 'same'. Not that a Pat Buchanan would ever vote for a liberal Democrat from Massachusetts, but unlike someone like Andrew Sullivan, who IS a Kerry supporter ( sort of ).

from andrewsullivan.com:

Saletan on Bush. Bush is for big government except when he's against it; he's for restraining spending, except when he's boosting it; he's for rooting out insurgents in Iraq, until he favors a more "sensitive" strategy; he's for free trade, except when he's against it; he's against stem cell research, except when he's bragging about it; he's pro states rights, unless they do things he disapproves of; he's in favor of responsibility, except when it comes to the budget; he's pro-U.N., except when he's against it; he's for church-state separation, except when it comes to federal funding. Any decent opponent would make mincemeat of Bush's wavering, straddling and inconsistent policy pronouncements. But Kerry is useless. And if he's this useless as a candidate, how good would he be as a president?

[Generator]

11. Why another one for the ignore list

But first, yes, It's all Kerry's fault because the media is so fair and balanced and gives oodles of time to the issues. Kerry is also at fault that a majority of Americans were in support of the war, and believed Saddam was linked to Al Queda.

Why hasn't Kerry changed all that? Oh I don't know, probably because of people like Pat Buchanan who get much more air time than Kerry. Here is someone that derides Bush constanly, doesn't agree with him and is voting for him. Pat Buchanan is a hypocitcal racist loon who gets much more time for his views than John Kerry.

And Andrew Sullivan is the worst kind of person in my book. If Bush hadn't come out on his major issue (gay marriage and rights) he would be voting for him. Only because it hurts him personally does he care. Fuck the rest of the poor slobs in America, but because Bush no friendly friendly to Gays, he can't vote for him.

And Bush has proven himself worthless, a liar and a traitor.

Nader is a crank that has no chance in hell of getting elected.

And here's the last answer: Nader voters either want Bush elected or they are hoping for a revolution. I want a country that my children can grow up in. It's not a game and I am sick to death of assholes like you taking up bandwith on DU.

[Career Prole]

16. Um...messenger of what? That neither of you seems to understand

Kerry's position? Try his website, because despite the fact that he and Edwards have been campaigning steadily we don't see him on the national news. I just hope local stations are covering him while he's hitting the battleground states.
Try writing the networks and complaining about the airtime. It's pretty pointless to sit and bitch that you don't know where he stands on the issues. Supposedly you're one of the people he shouldn't have to explain himself too. I didn't contribute time and again to the campaign to get the message out to Democrats in California, no offense. You should already know.

[LoZoccolo]

10. Strawman.

Sure, all they say we have is negatives on Bush* because they totally scripted the whole fucking thing. It's fucking fiction!

[Just Me]

21. Excellent point!!! The "strawman" is evasive.

A tactic used by all those who pretend to be knowing or thinking,...but used as a means of control through diversion.

Although, I must confess that,...there are "strawman" questions I have inflicted, too,...intended to simply induce,..."thought". I ought to know,...being a person who stirs people's boxes by asking "strawman" questions. However, my intentions have never put dollars into my pocket *LOL*.

[creeksneakers2]

12. One difference

Nader is partnering up with the Bush cabal in Florida to help preserve our march toward Fascism. Kerry isn't.

[library_max]

13. This idiot's never met a Kerry supporter, much less argued with one.

nt

[LittleClarkie]

22. Yep

A Kerry supporter is not an ABB. The Kerry side may contain ABB'ers, but there is a difference. Those of us who have looked into John Kerry know that he's as concerned about terrorism as the next guy.

And he actually knows his stuff on international terrorism. It should be no surprise that he'd been tapped to write parts of the Patriot Act. And neither he nor Feingold (the lone dissenter) are saying that they want it flushed entirely. They want it fixed. They want it better defined, so that it doesn't hack into our civil liberties.

Why even the Bush admin seems to consider Kerry an unofficial advisor on fighing terrorism, considering the way they keep stealing his ideas. If he's good enough to steal from, he must be good enough to run the country without the Bush political filter.

The difference between him and Bush is that he's take steps to actually make America more secure. Bush only pretends to take those steps. John Kerry wouldn't play politics with our fears.

Bring it on, Nader talking points people

[cheshire]

14. They assume we are as dumb as them. How pathetic.

[readmylips]

15. Best: Don't Argue...

A woman cornered me into voting for bush. She repeated the shit she hears on TV...flip-flopper Kerry. There was no way for me to convince her that she was repeating propaganda. And if I argue I need to win. Winning meant kicking the old lady's ass, I would be arrested and my family would dis-own me.

I told the woman that for me to listen to that mess on TV, would be beneath my education. (I stayed above it). I told her that I read and compare all the issues to make an intelligent choice. (I told her in good words she was stupid). The most beautiful thing about our democracy is that we can choose to vote for the government that best will serve our all our citizens. (I showed her I was a patriot). I told her, you and I need to love each other and not allow dirty politics to invade our hearts with hate. (I showed her love). Politicians come and go and our main energy is kept for our families. (I showed her my family values).

I could tell the woman was a stupid woman. She shut the hell up and ended the conversation. I won.

[Career Prole]

17. "I won."

You did indeed. :toast:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iwantmycountryback]

20. Just have to laugh at this

I'd like to see that person talk to one of us. :D