I haven't felt this way since the Berlin Wall fell in 1989!

[ddeclue]

Nothing this big has happened in my lifetime since then,.

:bounce:

[jobycom]

1. I felt almost this good when Clinton was sworn in.

Reagan/Bush was just as bad as W, so it was a joy to see them go, but I have to admit that the step our nation has taken symbolized by this moment does give it an edge.

The Berlin Wall coming down seemed like theater more than change to me at the time. Looking back, maybe I was too cynical, but I had heard several analysts over the previous year say it would be a brilliant symbolic gesture, and that was stuck in my mind when it happened.

[ddeclue]

2. I was an adult during Reagan - my first vote was in 1984

but I disagree - Reagan was a cub scout compared to W and Cheney. Reagan was never so universally hated as W and Cheney have been either.

I suppose the Berlin Wall has special significance for me as an Army brat born in Heidelberg Germany and as someone who lived in a divided Germany for seven years of his life 45 minutes from the Iron curtain.

The fall of the Berlin Wall was the end of the Cold War and was a pivotal change in world history.

Doug D.

[jobycom]

3. My first vote was 84, too.

Reagan kicked off his campaign by praising the murders of three civil rights workers in Philadelphia, Mississippi. He sold weapons to nations that had declared war on us and diverted those weapons to terrorist groups in Central America who were raping and killing American nuns. He created the largest defecit in human history to that time, and drove more people below the poverty line than even Bush. He used race and gender as weapons to divide the nation to keep his voting faction in control. He bombed Lebanon and Libya, and provoked a war between Iraq and Iran that cost millions of lives. He sold weapons to both sides of that war, keeping the slaughter going long after both would have exhausted their resources for war otherwise. I had a lot of friends from the Middle East and Europe and even South Africa in the late 80s and 90s, and I don't agree that Reagan was less hated than Bush or Cheney. Genesis, The Police, and Don Henley wrote songs criticizing him, and all were big hits.

I just don't agree that Bush was worse. Reagan had a better PR department, and over time his fan base has organized to clean up his record. When people publish, report, or direct unfavorable stories about Reagan, these organizations launch PR offensives to have the stories killed or altered, so that most of what we've seen has been favorable.

What worries me is that Bush will have the same effort made on his behalf, and in 20 years people will be claiming he wasn't as bad. If people remembered or understood Reagan's administration better, they'd understand Clinton's better, and we wouldn't have gotten in the mess with W in the first place. Same with Bush--Obama will not look as good in twenty years if people forget exactly how bad Bush was.

[ddeclue]

5. As far as I know:

Reagan never started a full fledged war on the scale of Iraq and ran it for 5 years running. Yes there was Lebanon, and Central America but the scale was no where near the same.

Reagan never tortured people in American custody or denied them a right to trial.

Reagan never illegally wiretapped people.

Reagan never claimed "unitary" authority to ignore the Constitution and will of Congress.

Reagan at least made an effort to work with a Democratic Congress and compromise and didn't engage in Bush's bullshit my way or the highway crap.

Finally Reagan would admit when he was wrong and apologize. NEVER would Bush do that.

Yes Reagan did a lot of bad things but he's not even in Nixon's class much less Bush's.

I think the next worst President in my lifetime after W was Nixon, not Reagan.

Doug D.

[jobycom]

9. You'd be easily wrong on most, if not all, of that.

Reagan encouraged the war between Iran and Iraq, resulting in millions dead, and the estimates of deaths resulting from his terrorist funding in Central and South America adding tens of thousands, at least. Reagan continually showed his contempt for Congress and the Constitution, selling weapons to nations who had declared war on us, funding terrorists against direct legislation from Congress, lying under oath repeatedly about it. There were more investigations, indictments, and convictions for corruption in his administration than in any previous (or subsequent) administration.

If Reagan's opponents had had resources like the Internet, maybe there'd be less of this revisionism, and just maybe many of Bush's cronies would have been in jail and therefore unable to serve under Bush, since the worst offenders learned their trade under Reagan.

[ddeclue]

10. We're going to have to disagree..

The war between Iran and Iraq was gonna happen with or without Reagan. Not the same as actually STARTING one for no reason.

Yes I'm aware of Ollie North and Iran-Contra - I was in college at the time - but there was never any established connection to Reagan himself and I'm sure you are wrong about indictments and convictions when compared to Harding or Grant or Nixon.

And NO Reagan never showed Nixonian nor Bush-esque contempt for the Congress or the Constitution - CERTAINLY he never did it in the brazen arrogant "I'm the emperor" way the Bush has done. Even NIXON had the decency to use burglars to break into the Watergate - Bush did it under the color of authority.

:eyes:

Bush got away with a lot more too BECAUSE for 6 years of his administration he had a Republican Congress.

Reagan only had a Republican Senate for 2 years of his term and the rest of the time had to deal with an opposition Congress which served to rein him in and check him. This is ANOTHER reason why Bush was so much worse - because he was able to get away with it.

Bush is by FAR the worst President in our history, and either Nixon or Harding is #2. Grant or Buchanan is probably #3. Reagan is probably in the bottom 25% in my book - very bad but no Nixon or Bush.

Doug D.

[Texasgal]

4. Werd!

I honestly believe I'll never see anything like this again in my lifetime.

The whole thing is amazing.

[DCBob]

6. I haven't felt this way since the French Revolution..

[ddeclue]

7. MAN you're old bob... at least 220 years old+ some..

:rofl:

and the French Revolution was a lot more messy than what happened today...

Doug D.

[DCBob]

8. Yes. It was much more peaceful transition..

That's a good thing.