I have been following and contributing (yes, you may call me stupid) to a discussion on a right wing blog called "The Right Side of Life" on the Berg case. I thought I had done a pretty good job of refuting some of the COLB posters. Today a poster named Howard jumped in and landed the all time slam dunk, game over, in your face put down on the COLB folks. You could tell even the moderator (Phil) was impressed.
http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=2751#comment-3004Howard Appel says:
January 14, 2009 at 6:06 pm
I will be delighted to respond to your questions, in the order presented. I will also address a number of allegations/issues commonly raised by others.
1. Obama has not spent “close to a million dollars in order to not show any judge or the public, his vault-length COLB.” Obama has not answered any of the actions which have been presented to the Supreme Court or, to the best of my knowledge, any of the numerous actions which have been filed by disgruntled individuals. In fact, and this relates to point number 3 below also, when the Supreme Court is provided with a request for extra-ordinary relief, e.g., a request for a writ of certiorari or an injunction, the Supreme Court, if it feels that is any merit to the request may ask the party against whom the relief is sought if such party cares to file papers in opposition to such relief. To date, the Supreme Court has not asked Obama, the Democratic National Committee or any other organization to file any papers or briefs addressing any of the issues raised in the requests for relief filed with the Supreme Court.
2. You ask why Obama has not show the judge(s) a copy of his birth certificate and thus demonstrated to every American voter that he is eligible for the office of the POTUS. (A) He has provided a copy of his birth certificate to the press; (B) the State of Hawaii has officially certified that they have a true and original copy of his birth certificate and that it states that he was born in Hawaii, as he claims; and (C) no matter what evidence he presented, those persons who don’t want to believe it will never believe it.
3. You ask why the requests for extra-ordinary relief filed with the Supreme Court have been taken to a full conference of the justices. That is very simple. The Supreme Court practice for petitions for relief is as follows: If the justice to whom the petition if initially directed denies the petition , the petitioner is free to refile the petition with any other justice. Generally, the other justice will then submit the matter for consideration by the entire court. The submission by the second justice should not be viewed as any sort of consideration by such justice of the merits of the petition. If you would like, I would be happy to forward you a citation to this practice of the Supreme Court so that you do not have to take my word for it.
4. You next ask “If Mr. Berg (or any of the other SCOTUS plaintiffs) are deemed not to have standing on an issue as crucial as the eligibility question(s) regarding a president-elect, then where does our God-given status as “We the People” live? Aren’t our elected (and/or soon to be elected government individuals)and appointed justices supposed to SERVE US?” Yes, and that is exactly the point. We elect senators, representatives, governors, etc. who “represent” us. An individual citizen has delegated that power to their elected representative and has no more standing to assert this claim than to sue to prevent the Federal government from spending lawful appropriated monies for the Iraq war. Individuals have standing to sue for a violation of their “individual” rights. This is not such a right, even if it were true.
5. You next assert that “If Barack Hussein Obama is not a natural born citizen of the United States of America, as SPECIFICALLY REQUIRED by our Constitution for the position of POTUS, then Obama will be sworn in as a usurper - fraudulently “swearing his allegiance to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States” which he has already violated by lying about his true citizenship status and heaping the biggest fraud upon the American people in the history of our nation - via his illegal and illegitimate candidacy.”
This argument and all of the arguments related to his allegedly not being a “natural born citizen” turn on the definition of what constitutes a “natural born citizen.” Unfortunately for you and your fellow complainants, you are not the decider of that definition. The Congress of the United States, subject to review by the Supreme Court of the United States, determines what constitutes a natural born citizen.
If the Congress and/or the Supreme Court has determined that having one parent be a citizen of the United States at the time of a person’s birth makes that person a natural born citizen, even if the other parent is a foreign national and regardless of the location of the birth, that is the law of the land. It does not matter what Indonesian, Kenyan or UK law is with respect to this matter (as a side note, I found it ironic that those persons who generally object to US courts looking at foreign or international law are happy in this instance to have them reign supreme over US law — ah, hypocrisy be thy name), the laws of those jurisdictions are irrelevant. The predicate elements for conferring citizenship upon an individual by a sovereign nation are determined by that sovereign nation and no other person or entity.
Now, no one has yet been able to present an argument that persuades the Supreme Court that Obama is not a natural born citizen and, according to the criteria set forth above, which seem to be the applicable law, he is. QED (quod erat demonstrandum).
6. Now,as to issues raised by other people, the first being the Certificate of Live Birth is really not the same as a birth certificate. I am sorry, but the State of Hawaii says it is.
7. Next, Obama has only produced a new copy of the COLB. I just ordered a copy of my birth certificate from the State of Illinois and they sent me a “certified copy.” That is the general practice. Government agencies don’t give you the only original and keep a copy for themselves. In fact, nowadays, they probably have digitized the original and couldn’t find it if they had to. They print you a copy from the digitized version.
8. For those who say the COLB that has been publicly provided has been altered, I refer again to the fact that the State of Hawaii has vouched for the fact that he was born in Hawaii as represented on the COLB.
9. Lastly, in order to buy into the conspiracy theories about Obama being born overseas, we would need to believe all of the following, because any one of the following not being true would destroy the conspiracy.
A. Obama was not born in the United States.
B. Despite his not being born in Hawaii, someone had the foresight and planning to have a birth notice included in the Honolulu papers for Obama several days after his purported birth in Hawaii.
C. The Hawaii State Government is part of the conspiracy.
D. John McCain and Sarah Palin were part of the conspiracy, as they never challenged his right to run.
E. All of the state and the national republican committees were part of the conspiracy, as none of them ever challenged his right to run.
F. Every Secretary of State of every State where this issue was brought up is part of the conspiracy.
G. Every judge who has heard this issue is part of the conspiracy, including all of the justices on the Supreme Court.
H. Every republican member of the Unites States House of Representatives and Senate are part of the conspiracy, as none of them objected to his certification as President-elect on this basis.
I. George W. Bush and Richard Bruce Cheney, currently the President and Vice-President of the United States, are part of this conspiracy, in that they have not acted to stop this.
In conclusion, there is no conspiracy, he is a natural born citizen and he won the election. You can spend all the time you want fantasizing about “kerning” on birth certificates and whether or not the Supreme Court allowed the filing of an amicis brief, but you lost. There was an election — the people voted — and you lost.
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