On Countdown Richard Wolfe said that Carter and Clinton "hate" each other

[bluestateguy]

Is this true? I always knew that they were not close, but isn't "hate" a bit of a strong word? If they do hate each other, why?

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4786283

[bluestateguy]

2. So?

Geez.

[Hieronymus]

38. Really, a self appointed monitor.

[CatWoman]

9. I'm sure glad I did a search

cause I was about to start a thread about this too :)

[leftstreet]

3. Here's a HuffPo article from April 2008

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carol-felsenthal/jimmy-carter-and-bill-cli_b_94926.html?page=4

snip

Only those who know little of the two former presidents would be surprised. The enmity between them dates back to 1980 when Clinton was in his first term as Arkansas governor and Carter in his first term as president. A Carter policy, Clinton believed, caused him to lose the governorship after only one term (he later won it back). Both men were depressed losers that November 1980. The enmity festered, heightened by Carter's ham-handed public criticism of the Clintons before they moved into the White House and the Clintons' high-schoolish -- junior high-schoolish even -- snubbing of the Carters at the first Clinton inauguration. Jimmy Carter repaid Bill Clinton and then some by going his own way on foreign affairs in the 1990s; by publicly rebuking Clinton's morals when he was at his nadir; after Monica, after the Marc Rich pardon; in that schoolmarmish manner that only Carter can muster.

Worst of all, as if some angry deity were directing things and punishing Clinton, Carter, the failed president, became a highly admired post president; a humanitarian par excellence, a winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, a man who built the Carter Center as an incubator for good ideas and good works. Carter mostly eschewed the $350,000 speeches that have made the Clintons millionaires many times over and Carter still sometimes uses commercial airliners. He became a model for how a post-president should conduct himself.


:shrug:

[polichick]

6. Fascinating piece - thanks!

[Captain Hilts]

15. I'm on Bubba's side here. Bubba's got a good track record of getting along with folks, Carter does-

not. How Carter made it in politics is still beyond me.

And Carter should have known the Rich pardon was a favor to E Barak in Israel who was voted out for going along with Clinton's 2000 peace initiative.

Carter is still Rickover's boy. 'Nuff said.

[ShortnFiery]

25. Too funny! It must be a personality thing because IMO Bubba's a horse's patootie.

I really had to hold my nose to vote for Clinton twice. In fact, the second time I wanted to vote for Nader but my husband convinced me that it would only lead to a republican in the Executive Branch.

To the contrary, I think Jimmy Carter was an excellent President - he was set-up by Saint Ronnie who I believe underhandedly communicated with Iran to hold onto the hostages until he was in office.

IF we had continued on the path to energy independence that Carter started, we'd be sitting pretty like Brazil and not be in the Middle East right now.

Like Dennis Kucinich, Jimmy Carter is TOO GOOD and HUMANE to be appreciated by the masses who seemingly crave "the bad boy."

[Captain Hilts]

31. Carter did not 'play well with others' at all in the White House. Hence, why he...

didn't have many friends and why Ted Kennedy ran against him and was so rude to him at the convention.

Carter just isn't someone people want to be in a room with. It's not about Reagan.

And Carter started the tidal wave of deregulation that swamps us to this day.

[blm]

37. Baloney - Rich was pardoned for POPPY BUSH. Rich was a named figure in both IranContra and BCCI

....just like Jackson Stephens and many other Bush cronies who were let off the hook throughout the 90s because Stephens' boy in Arkansas was set up to deliver that protection.

BushInc grew stronger in the 90s and we ended up with Bush2.

[polichick]

4. I've never heard anything about their relationship - interesting though.

[Boomerang Diddle]

5. That's news to me

[theoldman]

7. Reagan and H W Bush hated each other.

So what else is new today.

[glitch]

8. At least they both had good reason. nt

[Captain Hilts]

14. I think a lot of that was their wives. Raaaooooowww!!! nt

[Beacool]

27. That's true.

The Bushes were hardly ever invited to the WH during Reagan's term, even though he was his VP.

:eyes:

[juajen]

10. On the other hand,

perhaps Carter eschewed the $350,000 speech opportunity, because there were few offers. I really expect Bush to also be mostly ignored.

No, I'm certainly not comparing Carter to Bush. I loved Jimmy Carter and still have a lot of respect for him; but, you wouldn't really call his presidency successful; plus, he only served one term, and, in my view, was not nearly as charismatic as Clinton. just sayin'.

[karynnj]

12. It depends how you measure success

Clinton was far more charismatic and he was re-elected. He was lucky that 1996 was in the good part of the business cycle.

But, then consider their long term accomplishments - Camp David was real and to this day, Israel and Eqypt have avoided going to war. (The peace effort that Rice was working on was hosted by Cairo - and the current cease fire proposal is from Egypt and France.) Clinton's attempt was too late, too rushed and imploded into violence.

Carter was the first to really get people to conserve energy - he may have been mocked for his sweater, but he actually was headed in the right direction. Clinton's years ignored the reality of oil being a finite resource and global warming.

[Captain Hilts]

17. King Hussein said he never knew a president more knowledgeable and engaged in the ...

Middle East peace process than Bill Clinton, and he said he'd worked with all of them since Ike.

The timing of the 2000 peace process wasn't Bubba's fault.

Bubba's a god in Ireland.

[Captain Hilts]

16. People wouldn't touch Carter with a 10ft. pole for YEARS. nt

[catgirl]

44. I doubt there were "few" offers (nt)

[Jennicut]

11. Clinton seems to get along with poppy Bush better. Different personalities

sometimes clash and they are very different. Party does not always mean loyalty in the presidency. Teddy Roosevelt hated Taft with a passion, way more then he disliked Woodrow Wilson who was a Dem. It happens.

[Captain Hilts]

13. I've never heard that one. Carter has a 'plays well with others' problem at times. nt

[merh]

18. For someone who mocks the Obama supporters

you seem to have an overwhelming admiration for Bubba yet you ignore what is obvious - Clinton and Poppy Bush have an incredibly close relationship.

[Beacool]

29. That's not unusual.

The relationship between presidents changes completely after they leave office. Poppa Bush and Bill got to know each other better when they traveled to Asia to aid the tsunami victims. Just like with any other people, they can be friends with someone and not agree with their political views.

;)

[blm]

40. Yeah - and let's forget Jackson Stephens was good friend to BOTH as BCCI matters were deep-sixed

throughout the 90s for all those involved, and Poppy Bush was allowed to continue growing his global operations without scrutiny - and we ended up with Bush2.

[Captain Hilts]

33. Yes, they do. Didn't say they didn't. nt

[leftofthedial]

19. real Democrats don't like neocons.

[rvablue]

20. And I raise you on your insinuation....I like Carter AND I like Clinton...but it

was clearly obvious the two men DO NOT like each other given the photographs from today.

But I still like you, leftofthedial, :hug:.

[Occam Bandage]

21. I've never heard anything of the sort, and it does seem a bit extreme.

I wouldn't be shocked if they disliked each other, but I can't think of a reason for them to hate each other.

[AtomicKitten]

22. I think Clinton has more of an affinity with the Bushes than he does with Carter or Obama.

Clinton supported Junior's war: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/28/AR2007112802485.html

[Occam Bandage]

23. Leaving the discussion of what that means for policy aside,

it is pretty clear that Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush have a very close friendship. I suppose I'm not shocked; when you're an ex-President, there are very few people in the world who will have been through what you have. If you manage to hit it off with one of them, then I'd imagine you'd become very close friends.

[AtomicKitten]

24. Better H.W. than W. I suppose, but that's not saying much. n/t

[Beacool]

30. Poppa has become more of a father figure to Bill.

Barbara joked once that they had "adopted" him.

:D

[undeterred]

26. Clinton is more of a Republican than Carter or Obama.

[Captain Hilts]

32. No. nt

[snooper2]

39. Um- yes

nt

[polichick]

34. Definitely more of a Rep. than Carter - I'll wait and see about Obama.

[Captain Hilts]

41. Nixon was our last liberal president, sad to say.

And had Carter been a liberal, a liberal would not have challenged him for re-election.

[polichick]

42. Well, Carter was a visionary about green technology/energy...

I loved him for that!

[Captain Hilts]

43. I agree. That was so important. nt

[Iwillnevergiveup]

28. Carter and H.W. will both be 85 this year.

At the risk of sounding maudlin, there's a high probability there will be 2 state funerals during Barack's administration if he is re-elected in 2012.

[Beacool]

35. Yeah, that's sad.

I saw last week "Man from Plains" and, though I think that Carter was one of the most ineffective Democratic presidents of the 20th century, he is a great man and has done so much to help humanity. It will be a great loss the day he's gone.

:(

[blm]

36. Bill's a closed government guy who sided with secrecy and privilege to protect BushInc in the 90s.

Carter went into office as a fairly conservative Dem, but, did attempt to weed out the bad guys in CIA. Clinton let Poppy Bush continue to have free rein on his covert dealings and we ended up with a STRONGER global criminal operation from Bush and his powerful cronies by the end of the 90s and Bush2.