Being a Democrat in the Military

[Brooklyns_Finest]

Is not easy.

I joined the Marine Corps in the Summer of 1996. I was a grunt and I loved every moment of it. I was 18 years old at the time and I finally had my opportunity to play GI Joe. I was one of those head strong people, never needed to be recruited. I just walked in the recruiters office and told him sign me up and give me infantry.

I have never been really politically active, but I am a life long democrat who believes in most of the parties principles. I got to tell you, it is tough being a democrat around the most gung ho, USA is right no matter what, rah rah republican fools you will ever meet. DOn't get me wrong, I love those guys, but any difference of opinion will be stomped down with an iron fist.

Joining under CLinton, and serving under Bush was definitely an experience. Under Clinton, all I ever heard was how hard we have it now because of Clinton cutting our military. Under Bush, all I heard was how hard we have it now because Clinton cut the military. When the Kosovo thing happened, and we were threatening to send troops over there, all you heard was gripes of Clinton sending us to a BS war. When we were about to ship to Iraq, all I heard was we need to get these guys for bombing NYC (WTF?).

A few weeks ago, I talked to one of my buddies who is an infantry company commander. THey just got back from a 6 month stint in Afghanistan, so they did not have a chance to follow the election process. I asked my buddy what the troops were saying about the election of Obama. He justed started to laugh. He said guys in his company (who are 19 on average) were really bummed and paranoid. I said screw those fools. For every three that are bummed about Obama, there is one who is ecstatic.

I hope an Obama presidency makes it cool to be a democrat in the military again. If not, I hopes it pisses off officers to no end for the next 8 years.

Former military people please share your experiences. Only light hearted responses please :)

[muntrv]

1. Obviously, the current generation of military personell have never heard

that "politics ends at the water's edge."

[Captain Hilts]

3. No politics in the wardroom. I saw a navy guy wearing an "Iraqi Freedom" jacket...

with a patch depicting the twin towers burning....

[Captain Hilts]

2. I know a retired colonel who is a total lefty. They're out there!

Both Obama and Clinton - Hillary, that is...got VERY warm receptions in Baghdad...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

4. 10 years in the Navy.

1987 to 1997, so half under a Republican prez and half under a Dem. Sad to see that not much has changed. When I was stationed in Japan from 92 to 95 the AFRTS radio station would play Rush Limbaugh every day but nothing to counterbalance him. It's deliberate, this propagandizing. My last 2 years (and what caused me to leave the military mid-career in disgust) were spent at a mostly civilian research and testing depot. It was there that I learned that defense contractors are the most loathsome bunch of grifters on the planet. Many of them are ex-military officers who know that Republicans will let them feed at the trough more than Democrats will.

[otohara]

5. Is It Because They Listen to Limbaugh, or

does the military bad mouth democrats from the moment you get in?

[Brooklyns_Finest]

9. Rush

I don't know anyone who listens to Rush. Most of the guys I was with were either from the South or Rural land. THe city guys were cool, but they just didn't talk about or care about politics.

[elleng]

25. In recent years, General Clark and others objected strongly

to Rush out of control statements AND to absense of 'balance' in radio coverage; Air America or somesuch was then permitted to be on.

[Cha]

6. It sounds like they're part of those

"least informed Americans" who are head soaked by fauxsn00ze.

[jwirr]

7. I am not military but my niece graduated from the Citadel and of

course is one of those gungho pugs. We tried to tell her but she was mad at us and would not talk to us. Her husband has been in Iraq twice and is now on his second term in Afghanistan. He was disabled by losing the use of his right (dominant) hand in the first tour but still they send him. I do not talk to them a lot but I think they are a bit less pug - especially her as she is now out. My own children were in the services years ago and they talked to me about the continual harassment to vote repug while they were in. I am proud to say they continued to be good Democrats. It bothers me that the military is allowed to use this kind of propaganda on young often uneducated young soldiers. Apparently the Hatch Act does not apply in the military.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

8. Voting

No one ever told me how to vote. Then again, they all knew my point of view. I remember one time my staff sergean asked me if the only reason I joined was for the college money, lol.

[wmbrew0206]

10. I think your numbers are about right. It is about 3 to 1 in terms of R to D.

At least in the Marines.

From what I have heard, most of the military is willing to give Obama a chance.

The only thing I have heard that worries the military about Obama is his video about how he will cut funding for defense projects that "don't work." There are several systems that the military wants that are still in development and can't meet requirements at this point, but could in the future as the technology progresses, so what is the definition of "don't work?"

The military was predisposed to dislike Clinton. He was painted as a "Draft dodger" and his first major decision on the military was extremely unpopular within the military. The word from the military staff in the White House was that the Clinton's didn't like the military, but the banning of uniforms charge that the rethugs love to talk about was BS.

Strangely enough, the defense contractors are happier to have Obama than McCain. The worry was that McCain had enough time in the Pentagon and on the Hill and knew how sleazy the defense industry is and was going to really go after them on the terms of their contracts and make it a priority. They are thinking that Obama won't have the political capital to really deal with defense contractors without the rethugs screaming about how a Democrat is cutting military spending during two wars. Obama has other more important priorities that he wants to deal with and he won't want to waste the energy he needs to get those issues taken care off on dealing with the defense industry.

[windbreeze]

11. I have to wonder if it's worse to be seen as a

draft dodger, or AWOL from your post and a fuck off?? just curious...when I was a military wife...I believe being AWOL was as bad as it could get...wb

[wmbrew0206]

12. Draft Dodger

The idea that Bush was AWOL is not firmly held in the military. The reported "scandal" about the typewriter and "Rather-gate" killed that story for most people in the military. Also add in that most of the active duty has no idea how the reserves and "drills" work that most did not give the story credence. Also, most of the military were looking at wave tops versus getting down into the issue. This is why the "Swiftboat" attacks against Kerry worked in the military. They heard that most of the people from his unit said he was unfit for command and was hated in the unit. That resounded in the military where you normally have that one guy no body likes and is the problem child. They were trying to paint Kerry as that guy. Not enough people bothered to get to the bottom of the story and see that it was BS. Once the accusation of Kerry being "that guy" in his military unit hit, it was an uphill battle for the military vote.

Clinton did not try and fight the "draft dodger" story, where the right jumped to Bush's defense about being AWOL. It was an easier sell to the public because is was easy to package, where Joe Sixpack doesn't have the attention span to sit and listen about how the reserves work and how drill points are earned.

[windbreeze]

20. I guess when you have the money to scrub the records, or seal them

that's really all that matters...I believe he was AWOL, and I WILL continue to believe he went AWOL, because to me, when you are assigned to a unit, and you don't show up, you're AWOL...imo...it seems far worse to abandon your fellow soldiers, even IF they are only reserves or Nat'l Guards...than it would be to just go missing and never become a part of a unit who counted on you to do your assigned part..

We'll see what Dan Rather's suit brings out about the whole thing...but you are correct...most people see the headline, and go no further...they aren't interested enough to do the research for themselves and then make a decision...someone said so, and for lots of people, that's quite enough to make it the gospel truth...wb

ps: by the way, I understood what you said, about reserves, (importance in the reg.military, etc)...One thing I remember, is how my very own uncle when he was a young whippersnapper and thought he knew it all, during the Korean war, decided he did not have to attend his Nat'l Guard meetings....uh huh...AND as a result, found himself inducted into the RA..funny how * missed his regular meetings, and training sessions, but never found himself where my uncle did...I believe that even today, IF you are a member of the Reserves, or Nat'l Guard...there are some compulsary meetings and training sessions you are required to attend...correct??

[wmbrew0206]

23. The reserves and drills are complicated

If you are assigned to a unit you are required to attend drill.

There are exceptions:

1. You can do courtesy drills, where you drill with another unit. While you are not at your unit, you are receiving credit for drilling. Example: You are part of an Artillery reserve unit and do not live near your unit. Another reserve Artillery unit is having a Live Fire exercise, which is great training, and you go to that units live fire exercise and participate. You receive drill credit for participating.

2. You can come into the unit on non-drill days and work and receive drill credit and be able to skip a later drill. An example would be if you had drill on Saturday and Sunday, and you came in on Thursday and Friday, in addition to Saturday and Sunday. This would allow you to skip the following month's drill.

3. There are other special events the military has that you can participate in that are not at your unit you can receive credit for. An example would be that you are a LogO at a logistics company and there is a reserve exercise that your unit is not participating in but the exercise needs LogO's.You can participate in the exercise and receive drill points.

4. Annual Training, also knows as AT's, are the "Two weeks a year, you hear in commercials. This is when your unit gets together for two weeks and does its big training exercise. Everyone is suppose to go, but there are other exceptions. If you have gone to a military school for over two weeks, that can be considered your AT, and you don't have to attend the units.

All of the above require your chain of command to agree to it. All three are very common. This is why I saw it is complicated. Most reservists don't completely understand how it works.

[windbreeze]

24. Thank you

I hope there are others reading your posts, because you explained the situation regarding reservists quite well..but let me get this straight...you are telling me that perhaps mr * did NOT understand what his obligations to the TANG were(I was always told that ignorance is NO excuse)

Then, because there is so much confusion about what individual reservists' obligations are, in the first place, that most of them were not impressed with the fact that mr* didn't show up, or see it as him being AWOL....interesting...

Then you said that the military itself, was far more swayed by the garbage spewed against Kerry...who served in the war zone that was Vietnam, honorably, than they were by the slacker who's daddy bought him a spot to keep him home, safe and sound...but then, how could you find fault with someone who was never there, after all, there's nothing to find fault with...

The military is as political as it gets...and I am sure, that because of Mr.Kerry's civilian status...it didn't put him in good standing with those below him...some have a way of being jealous of what other's have...and many most likely resented the fact that he was there when he didn't have to be...it's funny how that works, but I am sure you understand what I'm saying..

Look at the mess we now have because an irresponsible individual was allowed to remain that way his whole life, because someone has covered his miserable ass all along, and made excuses for him...because his family was so rich and influential, that they could and did pave the way for him to take control of this country and turn it into a shambles....I am shamed by him, and I am ashamed of him...and I am horrified to learn that our military leaders from the top, right on down to the lowest noncom in charge, do NOT make it absolutely clear to individual Nat'l Guard, and Reservists, exactly WHAT their duties were, where they were supposed to be, and what was expected of them, while in that official position.... be it once a week, twice a month, once a year, whatever...and that it's become so LAX that a/any individual could be absent, and NO ONE pays attention, takes note, or questions why each and every soldier is not present..

I appreciate our discourse, and again thank you for being such a gentleman...perhaps because of what happened to my uncle all those years ago...I CANNOT and WILL NOT give mr* a free pass...We weren't rich, or influential, and when it comes to the military, those should NOT be qualities that matter(in an ideal world that is)IF you break the rules, it should cost you, but as you pointed out, first you have to KNOW the rules....(somehow, I am reasonably sure mr * understood perfectly, what he could get away with, and he did)....

Whether you are an honorable man who stands up and is willing to be counted upon by your fellow soldiers, should be what matters, and imo, mr* failed, miserably...So whether or not anyone else considers he was AWOL, I do...and he's continued to prove, repeatedly throughout his life, that NO ONE could count on him....wb

[Rosa Luxemburg]

13. hopefully we won't have to have our military involved in futile wars

[True_Blue_KY_Dem]

14. I was in the Navy.................

from 1984 to 1986, I originally signed up for a 6 year hitch. However, I made the mistake of letting military doctors slice on you. I had a bunion removed from right foot. Well, approx. 2 more operations later and a year and half had passed, spent walking around on crutches, holed up in Medical Hold, that, after doing some really heavy duty complaining to U.S. Congressmen and Senators about my "excellent" medical care, that I finally had a medical board and was found unfit for duty. At first, they tried to say my injury existed prior to entry, but, I had a little piece of paper that suggested otherwise, called a entrance exam. I was formally discharged on June 30th, 1986. All this during Reagan's time in office. I was suppose to have been a Fire Control Tech(Advanced Electronics).......never happened.

[snowbear]

15. ~~~~~~ Rex.... I'm not so sure I agree with you.

.
.

For example, within the past 3 or so years, there have been over NINETY military veterans running for various local, statewide, and national political offices AS REGISTERED DEMOCRATS!!!!!!

On the flip side, there have been perhaps TWO r-THUGS who are Veterans running.

Obama cleaned McDirtbag's clock when it came to "active-duty" military donations during this presidential election.

You can find all sorts of great information by going to "VoteVets.org---> http://www.votevets.org/index_html

Another good site to go to is "FightingDems.org----> http://www.democrats.org/page/content/fightingdems/index/

There is also General Wes Clark's awesome website at "SecuringAmerica.com" ----> http://securingamerica.com/

THERE ARE FAR MORE VETERANS PROUDLY REGISTERING AS DEMOCRATS SINCE GEO W. BUSH SCREWED AMERICA AND THE WORLD.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

21. Interesting

I am going to stick to my 3-1 figure. I just can't imagine the military changing 180 over the course of a few years. It makes sense that more democratic military people would be running for office at this time. We are the ones who are the most pissed about Bush and his stupid wars.

[Longhorn]

16. My son is in his fifth year in the Marines.

He's been in counter-intelligence for a year and said it's a whole different atmosphere as far as politics -- and not for the better. When Obama got elected, the talk was about Obama taking everyone's guns away. :shrug:

He's a liberal and an atheist but except for the sometimes heated discussions, he says it's not held against him, even by his superiors. But he says this group is more conservative than his last MOS.

He leaves for Iraq at the end of next month for his first deployment there. He was in Japan most of his first enlistment and has been in training since he re-enlisted. I don't know how I'm going to stand it but I know I must. :(

[Brooklyns_Finest]

22. Makes sense

In the military it is all about getting along. If you are a good Marine and a cool guy, no one is going to sweat what your political beliefs are. However, They will take a dig at you every now and then.

[ShortnFiery]

17. My husband and I are both democrats and veterans of the USMC and Army respectively.

We met in 1982 when we were both sent to an Intelligence School and married that same year.

I later resigned my regular army commission and completed my graduate degree (using that blessed SOCIALIZED Veterans Educational Assistance Program money that I acquired while on AD). My husband remained in the Marine Corps until his recent retirement. Although we were both raised in GOP families, we both evolved into "democrats" by the time we earned our bachelors degrees.

When we/he was on active duty, we truly kept our political beliefs to ourselves. It was our impression that the vast majority of fellow officers and their spouses were ... er republican leaning. Hope that starts to change now.

IMO, the Officer Corps (especially the lifers) TENDS to drink the right wing authoritarian GOP koolaid. For example, my husband informed me that he was only "one of three" candidates (OCS USMC) who would admit (by show of hands) to having voted for Jimmy Carter (against Saint Ronnie Reagan) in the Presidential election of 1980. :wow:

Both my husband and I LOVE the military as it consists of (the vast majority) honorable people and our time on active duty has blessed us to benefit from the opportunities for higher educational experiences and a sense of community that comes from having served our country in uniform.

[VPStoltz]

18. This is the conundrum of our time.

Why the military supports the party that hates, manipulates, and exploits it for the party's gain.

[Bobbie Jo]

19. This Army Brat can relate....

Both of my parents served in Vietnam, and I spent most of my childhood on a military base. What I learned about politics was there was often a great difference between talking the talk, and understanding the truth. Those who understood the truth knew some ideas just weren't up for debate.

The gung ho attitude you describe helps all this insanity make sense long enough to fight another day...knowing this, I tend to cut them a huge amount of slack.


PS...Democratic Marines Rock!!:kick:

:hug: