Is criticism of homophobic beliefs anti-religious bigotry?

[Solon]

[Teaser]

1. You can't get anti religious enough for me anymore.

.

[democrattotheend]

22. That sounds as bigoted as gay-bashers to me

As a religious person I have been pretty offended by some of the flat out hostility toward anyone religious that I have seen in the progressive blogosphere the last few days. I wish more of us would admit our own prejudices while attacking others'.

[Teaser]

31. I don't care what you think is bigoted.

I've had enough of religion and religious people fucking with my life.

[jefferson_dem]

34. Then don't celebrate faith.

Put your hate away.

[ecstatic]

2. Is this in reference to what that guy on Hardball said? nt

[Solon]

5. Actually no, but to something I read on DU...

A guy claimed that we are being all anti-christian/evangelical and that we are as bad as anti-Semites. I rarely watch TV anymore.

[Sebastian Doyle]

3. Not possible.

Since their bigotry has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ, then anyone opposing their bigotry would not be opposing actual Christianity, just their fucked up hatred.

[JuniperLea]

9. Bingo!

Jesus never taught hate. He said repeatedly that all people were his brothers, and that whatever we do to our brothers, we do to him. So all y'all who are hating on the gays, you are hating on Jesus, period.

And don't get me started on how they are judging after Jesus told them not to.

[IndianaJones]

4. don't know, but criticism of racism is definitely reverse racism. nt.

[Solon]

7. Oh definitely, as a white man, I live with reverse racism everyday. n/t

[boppers]

6. No more than criticising racism and slavery.

I think what the rabid right is worried about is hate-speech laws, and whether or not their speech will be protected in churches.

[AlCzervik]

8. no, bigotry based from someone's religion is still bigotry.

i'm sure somewhere in the world there's a homophobic atheist--maybe more than one.

[davidinalameda]

17. you're exactly right

and I've seen posts on other websites from people who say they're atheists who are homophobic

homophobia is the last form of socially acceptable bigotry

[mentalsolstice]

44. Actually, you forget bigotry against disabled persons

That's socially acceptable as well...sure there are laws, but it is still acceptable, and I suspect it always will be.

[Starry Messenger]

10. No.

"Imagine no religion".

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. Only if one treats religion and bigotry as synonyms... which in itself is bigotry. n/t

[Solon]

12. That's the reason for the poll, most of the time, critics of homophobia take great pains...

to separate it from religious beliefs. Yet those who call us intolerant of those beliefs always say we are intolerant of the religions themselves. Which is a ridiculous lie, to be frank about it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. The terms "us" and "we" get tossed around an awful lot.

Clearly, some find religion and bigotry to be inseparable. Further, posters often make the case that the bigotry is a byproduct of religion.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[izquierdista]

14. I'm not sure it is possible

Anti-religious bigotry, that is. My dictionary says bigotry is being narrow-minded and intolerant. Now I know from experience that religious people are narrow-minded, believing that only their church is the true one, although they can range widely in their amount of intolerance. But to describe someone who is shouting "open your eyes, you deluded fool" a bigot, seems a non sequitur. Like calling someone wielding a fire hose an arsonist. Or like calling someone with a protest sign a complacent tool of the status quo.

Now the anti-religious can be called many things: perceptive, discerning, skeptical, secular; and their attitude toward religion could be described as hostile, exasperated, annoyed, indulging of primitive superstitions, but I don't think "bigoted" fits.

[democrattotheend]

23. All religious people are narrow-minded?

That sounds like a pretty narrow-minded generalization if you ask me.

[bluedawg12]

16. It's a criticism of a doctrine. Like the Inquisition

not everyone favored it.

[stopbush]

18. You say anti religious like it's a bad thing...

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. no, that would be going way to far

but if a religious person, whether, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever holds a deeply held religious belief that all sexual relations outside of monogamous marriage is a sin - I would not call such a belief bigotry.

I'm sure there are people who have a religious belief that makes it hard for them to accept homosexuality - but are not by any means hateful or bigoted.

Twenty-five years ago while I was living in San Francisco, the center of gay politics at the time, I never heard any discussion about legalized gay marriage even among the most militant. Legalized Gay marriage is a fairly new discussion - therefore I think one should not be surprised that there is some social inertia - resisting the concept. I don't think it would be fair minded to insist that everyone whose personal background makes it difficult for them to accept legalized gay marriage is necessarily a hate-filled bigot.

[Solon]

21. I'm not talking about that...

But a belief like this: "As a Christian, I believe marriage is defined as between a Man and a Woman."

This argument has no merit, with the disclaimer mentioned, the person is insinuating this is a religious belief, yet I see no evidence in the Bible that marriage is defined this way. Indeed, the Bible itself shows many examples of polygamy, and even extramarital affairs that are "acceptable" because of, for example, a wife being infertile.

[bluedawg12]

27. Actually, from personal experience, if you push many of them

- if not all, they do reveal their hate filled side.

The mask of religiosity falls away and there is usually some personally held bias, distaste, disgust- whatever.

Yet, that is no reason to withhold justice.

Ask yourself why so many people unquestioningly accept a judgment about the love two other human beings share and are willing to go along with prejudice.

What's the real deep reason?

Because when it comes to scriptural doctrine, divorce, contraception and other violations convenient to their lives are often disregarded.

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. was everyone in 1965 America a hate-filled bigot??

I suppose I should qualify that a little and say, almost everyone.

From what I remember of how most people thought in mid sixties America, liberals thought gay people were sick and should be treated. Conservatives thought gay people were criminals and belonged in prison.

Was this because they were filled with blind hatred and bigotry? Or was this because they were reflecting the views of the mainstream popular culture of the time.

When it comes to socially conservative cultures, such as culturally conservative religious or ethnic groups - they have a lot more social inertia than the rest of society. In mid sixties America, most American Evangelicals couldn't accept divorce. Most couldn't accept popular rock music. Many couldn't even handle going to movies. So relatively they have liberalized a great deal since the mid sixties. Given more time, I suspect most will liberalize a bit on their attitudes toward gay people.

The point is, by current standards, almost everyone in mid-sixties America held profoundly ignorant attitudes on a lot of things. Society has changed to astounding levels since those "good old days" which in many ways were "bad old days." Conservative religious and ethnic subcultures take a bit more time to change. Their forces of social inertia are profoundly stronger and their beliefs are significantly more intransigent.

[Douglas Carpenter]

41. /

[Leo The Cleo]

20. Of course it is?

God forbid people question the validity of a religious argument. God forbid anyone question people interpretations and help to find answers.

[Solon]

28. OK, what the hell are you doing here?

[Danger Mouse]

24. No. There is no excuse for hate. Hiding it in religion doesn't make it okay.

I'm saying this as a Christian, too.

[Withywindle]

25. No. Homophobia is not a religion.

Though some people try to treat it as one, and some people who were homophobic to begin with use religion as a cover after the fact.

Homophobia isn't a legitimate pillar of any religion. It's an ignorant superstition. Many "religious" people at one point also believed that black cats should be killed because they might be witches' familiars and left-handed children should be beaten until they were "corrected." There were spurious pseudo-religious justifications for that too.

If you truly can't practice your religion without shitting on innocent people who've never done you any harm, then I think it's just common sense to say, "Dude, your religion SUCKS."

[Fearless]

26. Criticism of beliefs is never bigotry. Criticism of people can be, but isn't always.

[MadBadger]

29. Oh how I love Solon polls!

[davidpdx]

32. Hate is hate

If you want to put people down for their religion, go ahead. I'm not deeply religious, but this seems like another way for you to excuse yourself from your own bad ugly behavior.

[last_texas_dem]

33. It depends on whether or not the remarks criticizing homophobic beliefs contain

bigoted anti-religious statements as well.

[mitchum]

35. No, because people CHOOSE to believe in magical beings and other fairy tales...

while gender, race, and sexual orientation are not choices

[No Elephants]

36. Voted no, but the issue is what people say and do, not what they believe. The SCOTUS made

this disctinction very early on with Mormons and bigamy prosecutions.

The Court said, in essence: Believe all you want that God requires multiple marriages of you. Just don't marry more than one person if your state has laws against bigamy. We don't regulate religious beliefs. You have an unconditional freedom to have whateer religious views you want. We do not limit your religous beliefs, "only" your conduct.

Going from one kind of law to another: Jesus said all the law and all the prophets boil down to only two things: Love God and love your neighbor as your self. Even knowing the OT as well as He did, He made no exception for gay neighbors. I don't forbid myself to marry or to raise children or to have self respect. So, I should not be doing that to my neighbor.

Jesus also did a lot of preaching about working on your own faults until you are perfect (i.e., never in this life) rather than judging anyone else. In addition, Jesus NEVER even tried to forced anyone to do anything, although he had unlimited power to do that, even without the knowledge of the subject.

Putting it all together, I (menaning anyone) can believe in my heart and mind that homosexual sex grieves God. However, I am to show all my "neighbors" the same love I show myself, with no condemnation, judging or other indicia of hate, superiority, etc.

If, however, a so-called Christian wants to ignore almost everything Jesus said and did in order to pass condemnation of gay people into law and Constitutions, I can criticize not only their homophobic actions, but their monumental religious hypocrisy.

So. let people believe what they want, as long as they act like decent human beings to all their neighbors.

[HillWilliam]

43. Epic win!!

Do you have any idea how many hundreds of times I have posted MT 22:34-40 over the last 6 years since I discovered blogging?

Thank you. Thank you. Time and time over, I thank you.

[mondo joe]

37. Once you shove your religin into politics, it's fair game to be criticized and fought against.

I have little to no interest in people's personal beliefs, whatever they may be, until they inject them into law and politics.

[Orsino]

38. No, but the intellectually lazy critics could easily slip into mere bigotry. n/t

[baldguy]

39. Just like people, religious institutions have minimum standards of behavior.

that have nothing to do with their dogma. We don't tolerate religions which accept slavery, or perform animal sacrifices, or that have actual cannibalism as part of their rites. Why should we tolerate those that don't respect the human rights & dignity all people regardless of age, gender or sexual orientation?

The fact is that our society still struggles with this - some correctly criticizing those faiths with a limited view of humanity while others ask for tolerance of these faiths. But history is on the side of expanding human rights & for greater human freedom.

[DailyGrind51]

40. "Crticism" is not "hatred", it is merely correcting someone else's misconceptions.

[Blarch]

42. lol

This is what I noticed.

YOU, YES YOU. Think that if I criticize the way the gay community is handling the Warren issue, then I am a homo phobe.

Your poll is bullshit, and so are your hypocritic views.