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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:29 PM
Original message
Bishop Chane: Obama "is courting the powerful at the expense of the marginalized."
Edited on Sat Dec-20-08 05:35 PM by IndianaGreen
From Bishop John Bryson Chane:

I am profoundly disappointed by President-elect Barack Obama’s decision to invite Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church to offer the invocation at his inauguration. The president-elect has bestowed a great honor on a man whose recent comments suggest he is both homophobic, xenophobic, and willing to use the machinery of the state to enforce his prejudices—even going so far as to support the assassination of foreign leaders.
In his home state of California, Mr. Warren’s campaigned aggressively to deny gay and lesbian couples equal rights under the law, relying on arguments that are both morally offensive and theologically crude. Christian leaders differ passionately with one another over the morality of same-sex relationships, but only the most extreme liken the loving, lifelong partnerships of their fellow citizens to incest and pedophilia, as Mr. Warren has done. The president-elect’s willingness to associate himself with a man who espouses these views as a means of reaching out to religious conservatives suggests a willingness to use the aspirations of gay and lesbian Americans as bargaining chips, and I find this deeply troubling.

Mr. Warren has been rightly praised for his efforts to deepen the engagement of evangelical Christians with impoverished Africans. He has been justifiably lauded for putting the AIDS epidemic and global warming on the political agenda of the Christian right. Yet extravagant compassion toward some of God’s people does not justify the repression of others. Jesus came to save all of humankind, and as Archbishop Desmond Tutu has pointed out, “All means all.” But rather than embrace the wisdom of Archbishop Tutu, Mr. Warren has allied himself with men such as Archbishop Henry Orombi of Uganda who seek to “purify” the Anglican Communion, of which my Church is a member, by driving out gay and lesbian Christians and their supporters.

In choosing Mr. Warren, the president-elect has sent a distressing message internationally as well. In a recent television interview, Mr. Warren voiced his support for the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. These bizarre and regrettable remarks come at a time when much of the Muslim world already fears a Christian crusade against Islamic countries. Imagine our justifiable outrage if an Iranian cleric who advocated the assassination of President Bush had been selected to offer prayers when Ahmadinejad was sworn in.

I have worked with former Iranian President Mohammed Khatami to improve the relationship between our two countries as hawkish members of the Bush administration pushed for another war. He has spoken at the National Cathedral, which will host the president-elect’s inaugural prayer service, and I have visited with him several times in Iran and elsewhere. Iranian clerics are intensely interested in the religious attitudes of America’s leaders. In choosing Mr. Warren to offer the invocation at his inauguration, the president-elect has sent the chilling, and, I feel certain, unintended message that he is comfortable with Christians who can justify lethal violence against Muslims.

I understand that in selecting Mr. Warren, Mr. Obama is signaling a willingness to work with both sides in our country’s culture wars. I appreciate that there is political advantage in elevating the relatively moderate Mr. Warren above some of his brethren on the Religious Right. But in honoring Mr. Warren, the president-elect confers legitimacy on attitudes that are deeply contrary to the all-inclusive love of God. He is courting the powerful at the expense of the marginalized, and in doing so, he stands the Gospel on its head.


The Right Reverend John Bryson Chane
Eighth Bishop of Washington

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/faith_and_politics/bishop_chane_expresses_concern.html
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. +Chane is a very good man! Thanks for posting this. n/t
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Very well said. - n/t
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katsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. k/r
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Obama may be confused about right and wrong, but this guy has it nailed.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
Glad someone gets it.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. True. And I could take it better if DUers would just be honest about it.
Being asked to swallow the rationalizations is the hard part.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. What's done is done. I don't agree with Rick Warren, but at this point
further handwringing over the issue is only serving Jeb Bush/Jindal/Palin at this point. What expense will we all pay if they get elected in 2012?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. You must save Obama from himself and save us. Ask him to change his mind and his heart and
Edited on Sat Dec-20-08 05:45 PM by John Q. Citizen
dis-invite Rick Warren.

He has the power, if he has the guts to do the right thing for him and for us.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I already emailed them about it. That's all I can do.
At this point, I think he will look like a fool if he dis-invites the guy. But hopefully Warren will dis-invite himself somehow.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Obama will look couragous and strong if he can change his mind. He will need to
explain why he changed his mind.

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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. PE Obama can pull off just about anything. So you're right
With a good speech, he would be able to overcome whatever backlash occurs--from either direction. As I said in another thread, however, the outcry from the blogosphere combined with Warren's refusal to STFU has put Obama in a difficult position.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. A pretty speech will not assuage the GLBT community this time.
From what I have seen we are done with words. It is time for action.
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moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
41. Obama has put Obama in a difficult position
Don't blame the blogosphere for this. As citizens, they're just doing their job, which is to give politicians a hard time when the latter screw up.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. Better to look a fool than be one.
And so far, Obama has made a fool of all of us. It is time for him to stand up and correct his error.
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biopowertoday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
65. Its a sign of leadership to admit to mistakes. Lets see if Obama
can admit it this terrible mistake. I rather doubt he will change his mind though.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. If Obama is incapable of correcting this mistake of inviting Rick Warren
What hope is there that he can correct some future mistake with horrible consequences to the country? For example, what if Obama fails to realize that Afghanistan is already lost (as many British military officials have said) and continues to waste people and resources on yet another lost war?
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. If Obama views it as a mistake, he will correct. it. I don't know if
he sees it as a mistake yet. As Skinner said, there are two ways of looking at the issue--and none of those viewpoints = homophobic.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. Right, but one way is clearly in strong support of civil rights for all. nt
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
39. Disagree with you and Skinner
To deny gays the same rights as others is a type of homophobic behavior.
Just as denying black people the same rights as white people is a type of racism.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
54. And I would like to add...
What would have happened if Obama had picked someone who had previously engaged in anti-Semitic remarks?

If this different, how is it different? Is the argument that honest people can disagree as to whether gays can be compared to pedophiles or to those who commit incest? I thought so.

:popcorn:



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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
35. Escalating the war in Afghanistan = Republican victories 2012?
HOPE is not more bullets and bombs.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
32. The further handwring argument is ridiculous.
The opposite statement and "what expense question" can be made just as easily.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
38. Can I trust that you'll be doing this for the next four years
Any criticism of what Obama is doing will automatically be met with your response of "...the issue is only serving Bush/Jindal/Palin..."?
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. Sadly, I won't bet against that. nt
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
42. It's not really our job to be worried about Jeb/Jindal/Palin at this point
Obama has people that he pays very well to worry about them. Our job is to make our views known to our elected representatives. We can worry about Republicans when it gets closer to the election.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
47. Sorry, but I'm not willing to play the pawn for the next four years.
They can do it, but they can't have my consent.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
48. If Obama does a good job over the next 4-8 years, no Republican will stand a chance.
If he muffs it, it'll mean a Republican victory next time around.

We're here to make sure he doesn't muff it.

It may well be that we'll look back on this in 40 years, past the memory of a peaceful, prosperous Obama administration, and remember Obama as a saintly figure who brought all factions of American life together at one, big table. Until I get that perspective, I retain the right to tell him I think he's making a mistake in inviting this bigot to speak at the inauguration.

I gotta stick up for my homies.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. It's unfortunate his decision has caused this much pain and anger.
I wish his selection had not been so divisive, but it's not my place to say what should or should not offend the GLBT community. If they are upset, it's for a good reason.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Errraaa...
A word Amis need to learn is "exponential." It is NOT just GLBT people who are LIVID, it is family members, friends, colleagues, acquaintances, ANY WOMAN who has seen, read or heard this pig's agenda and has two brain cells to rub together, AND ANYONE monitoring the "Christian" Reconstructionist/Dominionist/Leo Strauss looneys ala Rushdoony...

This one is a DRILL. Practice for the heir to Falwell. Get up to speed and take him down BEFORE he gets a foothold.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4686419
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Stardust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. Sometimes I think Obama tries to please everyone. And will inevitably, in the end,
please no one. A one-term wonder. I hope I'm wrong. :-(

It would be perfect if Warren would back out but he's too much of a glory-hog.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I don't think he's trying to please evangelicals. I think he has this stubborn
view about reaching out to people we disagree with to find common ground. We'll see where it gets him.

If his plan fails, then the very next Dem president should jolt 200% to the left, because the bipartisan meme would finally be put to rest.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Too bad the common ground is disenfranchising gays. NT
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
43. Obama is also very good about learning from his mistakes
And I think that if this does turn out to be a political mistake, he won't repeat it. I would be shocked if he is a one term President.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #43
49. Yeah, he learned from McClurkin alright!
Look. If it wears a cross, Obama does not know how to discern the truth. And it causes problems every time, and this is far from the first time. When exactly will he learn? How many preacher outbreaks will it take?
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. Was McClurkin really a political negative for him, though?
I said that if this turns out to be a "political mistake" Obama will learn for it and thus he will not be a one term President. Morally it may be a mistake but that's a different story.
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Ocracoker16 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. I am glad you posted this
I first read it on Thursday, but I don't have enough replies to start a thread. I am proud of Bishop Chane for taking a stand on this issue. He cares deeply about GLBT issues 365 days a year not just when it is convenient for him. He was involved in the consecration of Bishop Gene Robinson. Making an openly gay man the bishop of NH was not very popular, but it happened thanks to other bishops who wouldn't let Gene be made a second class citizen.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Other bishops, and majorities in the clergy and laity!
Those opposed to Gene Robinson's consecration were always a minority. Just a loud and ugly one. But I agree with you about Chane - he's been outspoken about so many things that need saying. Lots of courage and a true example of Christ-like behavior, IMO.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Bishop Chane should be giving the invocation, not Warren
Or either of my rabbis, Sandy or Dennis, could give an ass-kicking invocation (they support full rights for LGBTs).
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. That's what I've been saying! nt
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bless you, Bishop Chane.
Edited on Sat Dec-20-08 06:33 PM by avaistheone1
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. I've always been impressed by this guy. WDC has itself one excellent
bishop!
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
23. He is exactly right. We have been marginalized by the man we worked for.
Barack Obama has lost the entirety of my respect. Sadly, I doubt he will do anything to regain it.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. Such a truly profound statement. I saw earlier a posting by the Episcopal
Edited on Sat Dec-20-08 10:25 PM by MasonJar
bishop from New Hampshire, who has endured considerable pain for being gay and yet has been elevated to one of the top rungs of the Episcopal order, and he was greatly upset that Warren with his many bigoted ideas was to give the invocation. The Episcopal Church has made great strides; it does not appreciate the agenda of this type of minister being broadcast to the world by our new president whose slogan has been promoted as (allegedly) "change."
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
30. Another Episcopal reason to dislike Rick Warren:
Bishop Chane is my bishop, and I've spoken to him several times. The last time we spoke, it was about the conservatives in the church opposed to the ordination of the openly gay Bishop of New Hampshire, Gene Robinson, which has turned into a worldwide controversy driven by some homophobic African bishops, and conservative American co-conspirators. It turns out that Rick Warren supports those bishops, all major homophobes.


same thread as the above link:

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/faith_and_politics/bishop_chane_expresses_concern.html

Jim Naughton is the communications director for the Episcopal Diocese of Washington. Here he says:

"I find myself even more disappointed in this selection than I was originally. Rick Warren has made common cause with those attempting to break up the Episcopal Church, take its property and assume its place within the Anglican Communion. He gave a major address at Bishop Bob Duncan's Hope and Future Conference in Pittsburgh in 2005 where bishops from other countries ordained priests and deacons to begin forming alternative Anglican Churches within the U. S. He publicly endorsed Archbishop Henry Orombi of Uganda's boycott of the Lambeth Conference, saying Orombi and his bishops were right to avoid American bishops who voted to consecrate Gene Robinson. It is hard for me to imagine that a religious leader who had taken similar actions against the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention would be given this honor. But there are so few Episcopalians that you can insult us without fear of political consequences. And then you can show up at our Cathedral the next day to hold your inaugural prayer service, and count on us being too polite to express our displeasure.
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
31. Thank you for posting this. KandR. eom.
peace~
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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
34. K&R for a thoughtful addition to the discussion. n/t
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. K&R Thanks for posting this article & thanks to Reverend Chane
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
37. This may be the best article on why it was a bad decision to pick warren
Thanks for posting
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
44. Well said, Bishop Chane.
Based on some of his hurtful prejudicial beliefs, Pastor Rick Warren does not deserve to be rewarded the elevated status associated with the inaugural`s invocation. President-Elect Obama`s choice of the bigoted Pastor Warren was inconsiderate and divisive. Surely Obama could have chosen someone more tolerant and more appropriate. Many members of the GLBT community that Warren debases feel terrible about this and I don`t blame them one bit.





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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
45. It might be necessary for the kind of change Obama intends to lead...
...but that doesn't make it hurt less.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
46. The Bishop says it perfectly.
I wish Obama were listening.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
50. This was an excellent contribution by Bishop Chane
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/us_world/NATLRick-Warren-Defends-His-Invitation-to-the-White-House.html

>>Although Warren has said that he has nothing personally against gays, he has condemned same-sex marriage.

"I have many gay friends. I've eaten dinner in gay homes. No church has probably done more for people with AIDS than Saddleback Church," he said in a recent interview with BeliefNet. But later in the interview, he compared the "redefinition of marriage" to include gay marriage to legitimizing incest, child abuse, and polygamy.<<

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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
51. "He is courting the powerful at the expense of the marginalized"
Kick.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
52. A politician doing that? No way.
K&R

:kick:
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
53. Do you see it now?
Edited on Sun Dec-21-08 01:10 PM by IMModerate
These denunciations of the horrific Rick Warren would not be taking place if Obama had ignored him? Instead, Warren is in the bulls eye.

Hopefully, the good Bishop and those of his ilk will continue to flood the media with condemnations of Warren's bigotry. I love it when a plan comes together. :evilgrin:

--IMM
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
55. it's a slap in the face to many....
Warren is the choice you'd have expected from mccain and palin, not Obama
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Balderdash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
56. He is courting the powerful at the expense of the marginalized
I hope that my President is listening...
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trashcanistanista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
58. Jesus Christ this guy is a monster!
I am outraged enough by the gay, women and stem cell hate. I wasn't even aware of the "lethal violence against muslims" aspect. Obama needs to rescind this invitation NOW. WTF was he thinking? The world is watching.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
59. figured he was episcopal great post.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
60. kick
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. And a kick to your kick because Bishop Chane represents the best
among religious leaders.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
62. I like the way this Episcopalian Bishop
lays out his case against warren. Hope Obama and Team get to read this among the many articles that have been written explaining why rick warren doing the invocation at the Inaugeral is a heinous idea.
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LaydeeBug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
63. kick. nt
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:10 PM
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64. Kick
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 11:27 AM
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66. One thing that bothers me about Obama's decision. He counters that he wants ALL sides
Edited on Sat Dec-27-08 11:29 AM by Liberal_Stalwart71
to be represented at the table, but that's not what we've seen. To me, only the DLC Clintonistas, the Center-Right and Far-Right have been invited to the table for a discussion. I don't see where Obama has also included a man or woman of the cloth who supports gay marriage. In terms of Obama's cabinet, there are few liberals/progressives, mostly DLCers, Republicans and Center-Right sycophants. It's hardly an ideologically balanced administration, nor are all views being represented.

Seems like "reaching out" simply means capitulating to the right and licking its collective ass. x(

Note: I was apparently mistaken about Rev. Lowery. I thought that he supported gay marriage. It was recently reported that he does not. :(
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