why did anyone support Obama at all?

[Enrique]

his whole message was he was going to try to bring people together.

There were plenty of examples during his campaign specifically about religion. Specifically about tolerating evangelicals. Even about Rick Warren himself.

Now people are saying that Obama "blindsided" them. Bullshit.

By the way, you do realize he is in some ways an economic centrist and not a total dove on foreign policy don't you? Just a heads up.

Oy, this is going to be some eight years...

[Lyric]

1. Oh, I dunno...I guess I thought that

he was saying what he had to say in order to get elected, so that he could bring us together by ELIMINATING the bigotry that keeps us apart--not propping it up and legitimizing it on a national stage. We eliminate bigotry by confronting it, tearing up its foundations with facts and reason, and then watching it crumble.

Or I should say, I HOPED that he would. I still have some small shred of hope that he'll change his mind. Please, if there is a higher power ANYWHERE, let him not turn out to be another, "Stay the course, even when I'm dead-wrong" President. I really don't think I could stand it again.

[alwysdrunk]

7. What the hell made you think he could "ELIMINATE" bigotry?

You must have really bought into the messiah stuff. You were expecting him to perform a miracle and just *poof* eliminate it.

[Lyric]

8. Did I say instantly? Only a fool would expect ANYTHING instantaneous, and to warp my words

like that is both absurd and flat-out rude. If the best you can do is to mischaracterize what I said and then attack THAT, then you are perfectly welcome to take your strawman and go elsewhere.

[chascarrillo]

11. Well, that makes everything okay then. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Lilyeye]

12. All this time I thought the repukes "messiah" claims were just their way of being

condescending assholes to Obama supporters. From what I've seen these last couples of weeks, with some folks actually saying they're sorry they even voted for the man, they might have had a point comes down to some folks.

[Jamastiene]

21. Uhm, he just got elected to a position that makes him the most powerful man in the world.

He has the power to eliminate the traumatizing, painful, murderous, torturous effects of bigotry through the rule of law.

Can he stop individual people from having a differing opinion on bigotry? No.

Can he stop the trauma, the pain, the murder, the torture of bigotry unchecked by the rule of law that doesn't apply equally to ALL people?

Yes, he can.

[FrenchieCat]

24. He is not a king. We have a congress and a supreme court

that works in concert with our President. Obama may be the most powerful man in the world, but he ain't all powerful, and there is a difference.

[Jamastiene]

25. Bush sure got what he wanted for 8 years straight.

He doesn't have to be king. He HAS the power to do whatever he wants. Period.

[FrenchieCat]

28. Part of why I voted for Obama and not Bush is exactly that;

Bush believed himself to be a King; while Obama understands he will be working for all Americans. In other words, it won't be that unchecked power that we have been experiencing for the last 8 years.

[boppers]

74. There was a ballot with Obama and bush?

Jus' teasin' ya, FrenchieCat. :)

[alwysdrunk]

80. Bush never got abortion

Even though they had all three branches of government, The right didn't get really anything they wanted on social issues Late-term abortion ban is the only significant thing that happened. Everything else was token.

Why? The will of the people. The public at large just doesn't want to see abortion made illegal.

[pnorman]

35. "Reeducation Centers"?

n/t

pnorman

[No Elephants]

79. What the hell makes it okay for him to HONOR someone who preaches against

voting for Democrats, preaches against equal rights for women and gays, and preaches against separation of church and state? Obviously, Obama cannot eliminate bigotry, but he did not have to bestow upon Warren the biggest honor a PE could give any clergyman on the planet.

[Orsino]

84. I'd be happy if he wouldn't PRACTICE it. n/t

[roguevalley]

62. why would disagreeing with a thing Obama does considered betrayal or cause

someone to ask what the op asked? Jeez. Lockstep agreement is republican. I would die before being one. If we disagree with an action of his, is all our work and effort going to be discounted? Are we traitors somehow? I can't stand it.

[AZBlue]

64. You don't eliminate bigotry with hatred and vitriol.

I'm not aiming that comment at you specifically, I don't know if that's the route you personally have taken latey. But it's certainly the route many here have taken.

[No Elephants]

78. Regardless of what he said or you thought, our job as citizens is to hold politicians accountable

for doing the right thing by all citizens of America, regardless of color, creed, gender, ethinicity or sexual orientation. And shame on us if we remain silent in the face of injustice.

[JI7]

2. actually, most were critical of Obama on this issue even before

but supported him with the hope that he would be better after the election.

after the whole thing with prop 8, inviting Warren to speak just seems like piling on the hate .

[Jamastiene]

26. Exactly.

It's salt in the wounds.

[Cattledog]

3. There's a small minority who

didn't pay attention during the campaign and got all caught up in the"mantra" of change thinking it was "radical" change. Now they are venting their anger.
Self inflicted IMHO.

[DCBob]

9. They were expecting a different revolution...

Obama is bringing a "revolution" but not the kind many progressives were looking for.

[DCBob]

4. The war thing could get dicey as well...

The war in Afghinstan will be getting bigger and an attack on Iran is very possible during the Obama administration. That will probably not go over too well with the peacemongers.

[FrenchieCat]

5. Well piling on with a crystal ball is not really useful, now is it?

Predicting that Obama will attack Iran is kind of making shit up....now isn't it? Be honest.

[DCBob]

6. Obama has made it clear he will not allow Iran to develop nukes.

I take that to mean an attack of some sort to stop them. Hopefully not but it's possible.

[FrenchieCat]

14. It just means that he has confidence in his power to persuade them.....

That is partially why he was elected...because he believes in Diplomacy. Anything is possible, but that isn't what Obama wants....nor does anyone else in the ME region. The surrounding countries are more threatened with a Nuclear Iran than we are. Unlike how they might have felt about Bush, these countries look forward to working with Barack Obama in letting Iran know that this would not be in her best interest to go nuclear. Remember that Iran has trading partners. It will also be the Obama Administration's job to work with them (Russia and France) to keep Iran not wanting Nukes. Iran was a sleeping giant woken when Bush made the dumbass decision to include it as one of three in his Axis of Evil. Bush basically fucked with Iran until Iran decided she needed to do something big to not end up like Iraq. That can be worked on now that Bush will be gone.

[DCBob]

16. I agree. I am sure he will try diplomacy first but he also clearly stated...

that he would take nothing off the table when dealing with a potential nuclear Iran. I hope it does not come to that but it could. That was my original point.

[FrenchieCat]

20. They have all said that.......other than Kucinich.

Why do you think that Obama is planning a major speech in the ME ASAP? He understands that solving the Israel/Palestinian conflict will also help resolve the issue of Iran....to a great degree.

However, when bargaining, nothing comes off the table...until a bargain has been reached. It is part of the "We will stand with Israel" stance that keeps a rowdy neigbor of Israel in "check" (like in chess). However, part of the plan, if you recall, is that Obama will talk to Iran, and make the situation less volatile.....and make Iran offers that will appeal to them way more than nuclear war. Nobody likes war....and in particular, Nuclear war. Bush put Iran in the position of feeling that they needed an attitude in order to make their own point. Bush will be gone, and so Iran's attitude can be dialed back without them looking like they've lost face.

That's partially the reason that Obama won the election, because Americans believe that his election signified a different approach with a different look. An American administration willing to sit at the table with both foes and friends and carve out some common ground, i.e., some peace. That's also why countries all around the world were hoping that he would win. It wasn't just because they found him to be good looking and charismatic so much.

[boppers]

75. So, what negotiating peacemaster will readily talk with Iran this way?

Whose job would that be?

:evilgrin:

I would totally love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. Without preconditions.

[Jamastiene]

27. Wow, you got his whole first term planned out for him.

What's up with your love for war and the nasty use of the term, "peacemongers?"

[DCBob]

48. You clearly do not understand the point of the OP...

The point being that many must have not been paying attention during the campaign. Obama promised to be inclusive and reach out to the other side -- President to all 50 states not just the blue states, etc. Reaching out to Warren may be a bit extreme but it is reaching out nonetheless. The OP was just saying "heads up", Obama will likely do some more things down the road that you may not expect and may not like even though he made his position clear on these issues during the campaign.

My "peacemonger" comment was a bit sarcastic but I meant anyone who is totally against any war. That is NOT Obama's position, so "heads up" he may actually start a war.

[JVS]

10. He was better than the alternative.

And he still is.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

15. The name calling of other DUers has got to stop.

Because your outrage doesn't need to extend quite that far. Makes it feel like a weapon.

Calling DUers Obama apologist because they don't walk lockstep with you doesn't make you a better person than they.

Go ahead, call me a name. I know it's coming....predictably.

[cboy4]

17. Did you read the headline?

Why did anybody support Obama at all? :nopity:

How can someone be anything but an apologist if they can't even criticize Obama when he fucks up?

I know I hadn't criticized Obama once about any of his picks so far.

Now I do. Now I will, because it's completely justified.

And then you have Enrique living on Neptune.

He needs to know how things are so he can perhaps begin to utilize the critical thinking skills he so disturbingly seems to lack.

[FrenchieCat]

22. That person is speaking for himself, just as you do.

You may not like what he says, but calling him an apologist is not practicing civility, it is name calling. You may think what you want, but you don't need to lash out and make it personal to DU members on this board....because then it is clear that you are just fucking with them. People are sensitive right now, and that works two ways.

[Enrique]

44. no problem criticizing him

but the criticism should accept the fact that Obama is acting exactly in keeping with his main message, and with the way he has behaved as long as we've known him. To say you're "blindsided" is just ridiculous.

[LaydeeBug]

18. actually, a lot never REALLY listened to what obama really meant

and it was endemic. This Rick Warren thing is a travesty, and I will continue to call it just that. It's only a mistake if he corrects it.

[Vattel]

19. I think it is reasonable

to be outraged by the Rick Warren choice. If Obama chose a pastor of a church that doesn't allow black pastors to give the invocation at his inaugural, that would justify outrage, wouldn't it? So why isn't outrage justified when he chooses a pastor of a church that doesn't allow women or gays to be pastors? It's irrelevant whether such pandering to bigoted evangelicals was predictable. And I can be outraged at that choice and still think that Obama will move the country in the right direction on many fronts.

[AllentownJake]

23. Maybe 4 if he continues to slap around people who elected him

There can always be a primary.

The grassroots giveth the grassroots can taketh away.

[FrenchieCat]

29. I suggest that we allow him to place his hand on the bible and take the oath first.....

Talking primaries before he is actually President is a tad bit premature even for the most unreasonable....plus, the grassroots is not monolithic.

[AllentownJake]

30. My support has always been conditional on doing a good job

and living up to certain ideals. He fails to do that...even if its a nuisance campaign against Kucinuch...I'll support it.

[FrenchieCat]

32. He fails.......in your opinion.

[AllentownJake]

33. Right now I'm regretting the work I did in the Primary

Not the General Election because the alternative is awful

However, right now I regret from December to June any donation I gave and every door I knocked on and every phone call I made because at the end of the day it was a fruitless effort. We ended up in the same place.

[FrenchieCat]

38. Well you have that right to regret whatever it is that you choose.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8013095&mesg_id=8013210

[AllentownJake]

39. Well I hope I'm wrong and your right

However,

When I get the emails to organize for this issue or that. If I don't care about the issue, I'm not answering the call anymore because seeing that I now am starting to believe that hope was a marketing slogan and change simply meant a change from democrat to republican I don't see the need for me to support this man with the fervor I once did.

[FrenchieCat]

40. Again, that is your right......

and I'm certainly not going to tell you otherwise.

But I will hope that if he does something good. Something that makes you proud. That you will be as repetitive and adamant on praise, as you are now in your disgust.

Because I know that as a fair person, you aren't going to just stay stuck if you see movement.

[AllentownJake]

43. No,

I will praise him when he does good and generally bite my toungue when he just messes up. However, when he intentionally slaps people who supported him in the face. I will be quite vocal.

[Enrique]

45. there was a primary

and during the whole primary, Obama reached out to evangelicals, including Rick Warren himself. And Obama won the primary.

[JVS]

61. I don't mean to get into a primary rehash, but if you look at the primaries...

a trend emerges. In the early stage of the primary places won by Clinton and Obama were very mixed. But I remember that by the time it got around to TX, OH, and PA (It might have been earlierbut I know for a fact that it had happened by this time), Obama was winning the sections of states that traditionally went Democratic while Hillary was winning areas that usually went Republican. This trend continued through KY, WV and IN. If anything, the drawn out nature of the primary showed that Obama was having trouble getting the right wing of the party. Thus moves toward the center probably work in his favor for a 2012 primary.

[Steepler0t]

31. raygun, bush, clinton, bush ugh...

Just one good progressive President, PLEASE?? I was only 5 when Carter left.
It is about time. I hope the Big O does not disappoint, I am sick of the centrist shit while all the while the repugs go hog wild.

[FrenchieCat]

36. I believe that you'll get what he offered.......

to bring us together to work out our big ass problems. He also clearly stated that the road would be long, the climbs steep, and that there would be some bumps along the way. He constantly reminded us that he wasn't perfect, and that there would be time that we would disagree. He said however, that we could not turn back, and that we could not walk alone. Further, he demonstrated his willingness not to hang on to personal destructive behavior like holding grudges, seeking revenge or doing payback. He demonstrated that himself in how he dealt with Lieberman, selected Hillary as SOS, and didn't humiliate John McCain at anytime, even as he pointed out their policy differences.

In other words, he has done what he said he would do to date....and of course, he needs to be sworn in and given a tiny bit of time to show us exactly what it is that he going will do. What I know is that there is plenty on his plate.

[glowing]

34. Most expect him to understand more.. as a person who's a minority, there are

times he knows that he's treated as less.. has to work harder to be heard.. etc, etc. Most expect him to be intolerable of hate and bigotry.

[FrenchieCat]

37. Obama has been treated as less than, time and time again.

He was treated as less when questioned throughout and till now about his "citizenship". He was treated as less when he was questioned about his lack of a flagpin, and his choice of a preacher (Rev. Wright). He was caricatured on a waffle box, hung in effigy, called the Antichrist, made into a monkey shirt and a monkey doll, as well as called a Communist, a Socialist, a Marxist. Further, real threats have been made on his life. His wife's picture was morphed into a monkey, and she was even called names.

He reached out to Joe Lieberman (the traitor), Hillary Clinton (made her SOS although she said he wasn't ready to lead) and even to John McCain and Palin (who incited crowds against him).

And yet, throughout it all, at no point did he lash out or lose his temper or even attempted retribution. In fact, his tolerance for withstanding reacting to those who hated him was the constant source of our panic here at DU. We wanted to see him get a bit more incensed, go for the jugular, and kick some ass.

He's leading by example, but many don't want to acknowledge it.

OBama is the epitomy of tolerance. That's the conflict here today, in fact. Some find him to be too tolerant. They'd rather he be less so.

[glowing]

51. But he wouldn't have been where he is today if someone hadn't stood up

for him with verocity and without toleration. He may want to be understanding, smooth things over, but someone has to make the stand when it comes to bigotry. He will be on the wrong side of history with this move.

[localroger]

53. Perfectly Stated

I couldn't have said this better myself, and I've been trying. You have hit the nail on the head. Obama is truly tolerant, truly empathetic, even of people who have self-defined themselves as his enemies -- and he has repeatedly shown that this is a strength, not a weakness. But if you yourself are partisan, his tolerance and respect for your enemies comes across as a weakness or slight.

And this is why Obama was the best choice in both the primary and general -- NOBODY else in the race could do this. Everyone else would have cemented the existing left/right polarization. He has got to break that in order to get anything big done, and it's likely he's going to piss a lot of us off at times as he maneuvers. But in the end he has said what he will do, and it will be the right thing.

[sunnystarr]

56. Amen. (nt)

[AZBlue]

66. The best way to overcome bigotry and hatred is to have a civil discourse

and show the other side how wrong they are. Obama certainly knows this.

[pipi_k]

91. Just wondering something...

how exactly does one demonstrate intolerance of hatred and bigotry?


By being as hateful as the people who hate?

:shrug:

[NorthCarolina]

41. I Supported Kucinich from the onset of the primaries, but when he dropped out

the election became simply another lesser-of-two-evils election year.

[book_worm]

42. for myself I supported him because I believed (and still do) he was better than the Dems running

against him in the primaries and McCain in the GE.

[polichick]

46. You don't "bring people together" by giving a platform to a hateful bigot...

You bring people together by inviting someone with wide inclusive views ~ a Unitarian minister would've been great.

[AZBlue]

67. He's not giving a platform. It's a prayer.

Now if Warren starts speaking about LGBT issues, abortion, creationism, etc, then it is a platform - but as far as I know, that will not be happening.

I happen to agree with you that a Unitarian minister would have been great but what I would really love to have seen is perhaps a 5 or 6 person group, representing various major religions, splitting up the invocation and "sharing" it. Now that would make a statement!

[lame54]

47. I supported him to get away from fundies...

Intelligent design?

come on

[polichick]

59. Me too!

[mondo joe]

49. I was lulled into thinking he'd be better. NT

[otohara]

57. You Aren't Alone

this is an all too familiar "in your face" get used to it move we've come to expect over the last 8 years. "I will always listen to you" is what I remember hearing time and time again. The outrage and disappointment by millions of supporters means nothing - he obviously doesn't care. He certainly isn't listening.

It's not just gays and liberal groups who are upset by this move as the MSM would have us believe. Unless you call the millions of ordinary people part of an organized liberal group.

[mondo joe]

58. As a fundraiser he had major outreach to GLBT people. Our votes and our $ were

appealing enough then, but his energy in our direction has waned.

[AZBlue]

68. Then you didn't do your homework.

And I'm sure that's frustrating. But trying to take down a great President before he's even sworn in isn't a way to vent your frustrations about your own mistakes.

[The Backlash Cometh]

50. Well, we didn't all support him, until we had no choice.

However, if I had my way, we would be dealing with an extra-marital affair scandal right about now, so I suggest we put our heads down and fight the good fight and hope we manage to put a dent in this new president's method.

I suggest you all wait a while. The conservatives will kick Obama in the ass eventually, and we can see how he's going to handle it on his own. If it's by giving them more capitulation, then you know we're in real trouble.

[Lilith Velkor]

52. Because McCain was worse.

Duh.

[Stinky The Clown]

54. Just when you think a politician is lying effectively .... he tells the truth.

Who would have thought it?

[stillcool]

55. 8 years? You must be joking..

He'll be lucky if he makes it to the inauguration.
Where is the 'hope and change'?
I feel so 'used'.
Where's the 'unity'?
He lied
I thought he was a 'progressive' 'liberal'.
This is not the change I voted for
He is a bigot, a racist, and someone who advocates taking my rights away
I will not be voting for him in 2012
He campaigned on 'change' and then brought in Republicans

[Pirate Smile]

69. Wow. That is an unbelievable post.

[stillcool]

70. It's standard 'dissent'

[Pirate Smile]

71. It is just not reality based.

[stillcool]

72. when has that ever mattered?

[Pirate Smile]

73. I can think of a few times it mattered a lot but I get that it doesn't seem to matter

much right now.

Peace.

[alwysdrunk]

81. Ha ha ha ha, oh man.

You should change your avatar. I'm sure you can find a Nader logo somewhere.

[stillcool]

89. Why is that?

aren't those standard replies of 'dissent'?

[LWolf]

60. I didn't.

I always recognized him as a center-right politician who, while spewing rhetoric about "bringing people together," distanced himself early and firmly from the left.

[GeorgeGist]

63. Gosh I missed that ...

I'm quite certain Obama talked mostly about C-H-A-N-G-E for the B-E-T-T-E-R.

I guess he just couldn't wait to prove that he's no threat to the Rick Warren's of the world.

[last1standing]

65. How does insulting the GLBT community "bring people together"?

I guess you're okay with bringing people together on the backs of GLBTers because that is what Obama has done. He has marginalized us in order to curry favor with bigots and hate mongers. It will come back to bite him when he looks to them for support and they spit at him, and when that day comes we will not be there to defend him.

[wildonion]

76. yeah, Obama is worse than Hitler, clearly, among the vast virtual army

"his whole message was he was going to try to bring people together."

Who could possibly expect Obama meant THOSE people, too?

I haven't seen him on DU yet, either, for some reason. Shows he don't care about the REALLY important people.

I thought Obama would get me laid.

Sarcasm alert for the intelligence impaired, and you know who you are.

[No Elephants]

77. Supporting a candidate for the Presidency usually means that

means that you prefer that candidate to your other choice. (Realistically, you have only one other choice: anyone who does not vote for the Dem helps the Pub and vice versa). It does not mean that you support every single thing the candidate has ever said or done or may ever say or do after the election and will never, ever protest when he is DEAD WRONG on a fundamental issue like equal rights.

Next, there is a world of difference between "tolerating evangelicals," including "Rick Warren himself," which our Constitution mandates, and giving Rick Warren the greatest honor a President Elect could give any pastor.

Sounds as though you are disappointed because you thought we were elected a God to be idolized and admired unquestioningly. Sorry you're disappointed in those of us who intended to elect a man to work for us as our President. And, not so incidentally, a man who has said over and over that he wants people with strong opinions who disagree with him.

[Enrique]

83. I never had any illusions about Obama

during the primary I supported Hillary and was constantly asking delusional Obama supporters to be more realistic about him.

[alwysdrunk]

82. Sadly, many were deluding themselves

Many here have stated that they though Obama was lying when he talked about his position on gay marriage and his willingness to engage the other side. I've seen that explanation quite a few times.

People who let themselves believe something in the face of evidence to the contrary have no one to blame when their beliefs are proven false.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

85. I always knew that he was basically establishment and not REAL change

because anyone who represented REAL change would never be allowed past the primaries. It worried me that his public speeches were stirring but VAGUE. He could have used that energy and charisma to advocate a turnaround in U.S. foreign policy and national health care, or an end to the exportation of American jobs, just to name a couple of examples, but he didn't.

Note that from the beginning, the mainstream media treated this as a two-person race between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. I knew the fix was in--that the nominee would be one of those two--after the New Hampshire primary, when even NPR reported ONLY on the results of Obama and Clinton, not on how anyone else did.

I never would have voted for McCain; I've never understood why any Democrat likes him, and it's cool that racism has died down enough in this country to vote in a person of color. But I always assumed that as an establishment-approved Democrat, he'd pursue a kinder, gentler version of basically Republican policies.

So seeing his list of appointments, I'm exasperated but not surprised, yet sad that whole swaths of the population have no one representing them, not even in the Cabinet.

[Jennicut]

88. There was no fix unless you let the MSM control your thoughts

I voted for Obama. I did not like the other candidates, I guess I was against "real change"?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

90. Well, saying "real change" doesn't make it so

I'm still waiting to see some evidence of it. The Cabinet appointments don't give me much hope for anything but a milder version of business as usual.

[Jennicut]

86. I supported Obama and still do but I am disappointed in him right now

I don't think he was vague at all according to some posters here. He pretty much laid out all his plans, they were very moderate and never Dennis Kucinich-like at all. I am a more moderate to liberal type of a Dem so his picks so far are okay with me (maybe one or two I am not crazy about). However, if Obama does something we don't agree with then it is perfectly okay to disagree with him, protest it, speak up against it. The one thing I am turned off here by is the comments that Obama was just an idol to those who voted for him. I never believed Obama was an idol to worship. Jackeens learned that the hard way. To lay that at someone's feet is not fair nor is it healthy. People are real, not Gods. Obama made a huge mistake either out of naiveness or political calculation. He may start to realize that soon. But to say he was a messiah we all went in blindly voting for is crap and a lie. I voted for a man. No man as president is ever a God.

[bread_and_roses]

87. Oh, don't be ridiculous

People supported Obama for reasons ranging from "the best of a bad lot" to hero-worshiping fervor. And by the way, supporting a candidate does not and has never meant that one is compelled to support each and every decision/policy that candidate promotes once s/he is elected. In fact, among the reasons a sane person supports a candidate - as with many of us, with work and money as well as a vote - is because one wants a "stake" and the opportunity to impact that candidates decisions. What is so hard about this that people keep starting these ridiculous threads?