Let us know if you have always been a Obama supporter and still are but think...

[book_worm]

that this decision on Warren is just plain wrong.

I do. I think overall PE Obama has been forming a great government but this symbolic decision to include a bigot like Warren in such a high profile role on Inaguration Day, a day which should bring all together, is just plain wrong and stupid.

[cali]

1. yep. that's about it.

[bunnies]

2. Here. nt

[LostinVA]

5. My favorite Kool-Aid Drinker -- or is that me???

I always forget.

:pals:

[bunnies]

12. *sigh*. I think we might need something a little stronger these days.

:hi: I never thought anything would happen that would make the primary fighting look tame. I cant stand to see everyone at each others throats like this. :pals:

[LostinVA]

20. Someone just told me "patience is a virtue," and I should be happy to not fight for my rights

[bunnies]

30. WHAT?!

It makes my blood boil to hear that kind of bullshit. Whats so damned hard for people to understand?! And what the hell kind of person defends discrimination?! :banghead: What. The. Fuck.

[LostinVA]

34. I am going home in a few minutes (it;'s wnowing liek HELL) and meditate

Then, I'm playing with the dogs in teh snow. Then I will try to stay off of here. But, as Kitchewitch says,"It's like crack!"

[bunnies]

39. lol. I think I'll be hangin in the lounge more.

:toast: We're expecting a foot of snow here today - seems like a good time to drink. :toast:

[mentalsolstice]

67. That is just so wrong!

The LGBT march for civil rights, has been a long, patient journey. The time has finally come for full inclusion. I worked for the Navy during the Reagan years and knew many gay and lesbian sailors, even served as a beard for one good friend. So, when Clinton enacted DADT, it seemed like a good incremental step in the right direction. It wasn't inclusive enough, but we have to take baby steps, eh?

Last week I saw "Milk" and how long the good people in SF and Cal. have been patiently working for inclusion. After the movie, my hubby and I speculated about Prop. 8, and how the vote would've gone if "Milk" had been released in Oct., instead of in late November.

Nope, the baby steps have already been taken. The movement has crawled, walked, and now it's ready to run. Patience has been the mode for decades, and, speaking for myself, it's starting to wear very thin.

:hug:

[Jennicut]

3. I am in this group

[Bucky]

4. I got the first recommend in on this thread. Criticizing Obama is not disloyalty

It's a pretty shitty argument to say I'm hurting Obama's presidency by complaining about his selection of Warren. How can I hurt him when he isn't even president yet?

[Saturday]

6. Although I'm not thrilled

about Warren I can see where Obama's coming from. During his entire campaign he said he wanted to reach out. In Grant Park he said he would be the President of those who didn't vote for him too. He says he wants to focus on what unites us and not what divides us. If we believe in Obama then we need to believe in what he's trying to do.... Unite us. He obviously doesn't hold a grudge and I'm going to try not too either.

[DevonRex]

32. You're a big person. Thank you very much for expressing your thoughts.

[Bjorn Against]

48. Well if his plan was to unite us with this choice he failed miserably and caused enormous division

[glitch]

63. This is another thing bothering me -- I was hoping for someone who thinks in terms of complex

systems, and this move makes me think he views his role as playing on a grand chessboard, and that GBLT community are his pawn sacrifice.

A necessary part of building a coalition is not losing existing members.

I hope he not only realizes this is a mistaken move, but also looks at how he makes his decisions, exactly which game needs playing and which game needs abandoning.

[AZBlue]

75. Well said - me too!

I wish everyone could understand that - Obama's rising above the pettiness and bitterness and many here just want to drag him back down into it.

[lapfog_1]

7. Bingo.

But if there is no change, my support will diminish.

[Shiver]

11. That's exactly the way I'm approaching it.

I oppose the Warren pick vehemently (while praising the Lowery pick at the same time), but if there is no change - and I count movement towards change as some things may take more than four years - then he will lose great amount of support I have for him.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. It is deadly wrong. So is overlooking excellent, brilliant Democrats to put mediocre right wingers

into his cabinet. Obama needs to start thinking of who put him in office and stop trying to be all things to all people, including to fascists.

[Shiver]

14. Not to excuse the inclusion of some truly bad picks

(Vilsack, Lahood), the appointments Solis, Chu, and Shinseki are very good, as are many of the non-Cabinet appointments he has made.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. We've had fascists up to our noses for decades, and he finds it funny to be placing Repukes....

And not brilliant ones. As if there were no brilliant Democrats.

I'm really disappointed.

And he also said he'd have to hold off on his promise to increase the taxes of the mega-rich (who have been paying almost no taxes since Reagan - and this has been explained even by the mega-rich).

I'm really pissed off. I don't plan to watch the inauguration.

[Shiver]

28. You're looking for reasons to be disappointed.

I've given a list of some of the picks he's made that are not facists, and not Republicans. You seem to have ignored that and them.

The promise was to let the tax cuts expire, if not repeal them outright. I don't know enough about economics to know if raising taxes on anyone during a recession is a good idea or not. As long as they are not made permanent, and I'm certain they won't be, the promise will be upheld.

It's you're right to be pissed off, but I find anger to be bad karma.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

41. Actually, it's not only me. It's throngs of us, and we have been had

We won't be had in 2012.

[Shiver]

47. He's not the president yet.

And you have already written off the next four years. And from he post below, I think I understand why.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

49. He's already put Republicans everywhere. Nothing more need be said nt

[MadBadger]

52. So everywhere is two spots in the cabinet?

[Shiver]

54. LaHood is a horrible choice.

I am skeptical about Gates, but I strongly believe that Gates is just going to be a placeholder, implementing Obama's policies until Wesley Clark is eligible for the position.

Apparently, the Cabinet has been reduce to Defense and Transportation... :shrug:

[MadBadger]

55. Well didnt you hear? Warren has been named Secretary of Invocations...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

56. As I said, if I'd wanted more of the same, I'd have voted for more of the same

I'm going to watch. If this shit keeps up, 2012 will see me putting my money and campaigning time behind whichever Democrat runs against Obama.

[MadBadger]

57. You've been had because you don't listen

Obama said there would be Republicans in the cabinet. And You're shocked!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

58. Then it's absolutely my mistake - did he also mention he'd have a homophobe speak at his inaug?

I must not have been listening very much, but I will in 2012.

[Zynx]

79. What's wrong with Vilsack.

[babylonsister]

15. Too bad, Sarah. rethugs voted for Obama, too. You must have

missed the primaries when he said this is how he'd approach filling his cabinet. Your complaining won't change one thing.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. Rethugs voted for rethugs, but apparently Obama thinks I'll be voting for him if he puts rethugs in

office to ingratiate himself to them.

2012 is now my target.

When are we finally going to have a real Democrat?

[babylonsister]

23. So don't vote for him; that's your right. But good luck finding what you

are looking for. And he is a real Democrat, with a much broader outlook on how to get things done than you apparently have.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

40. The throngs that are currently pissed off could've put our weight behind Hillary Clinton

And if he keeps this up, we will put our weight behind her or another Democrat in 2012. This is insulting to us.

[babylonsister]

43. Ah! You just outed yourself as to your motives. I should have known.

What makes you think Clinton wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing?

Did you forget all about the supposed big tent? Obviously so.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

45. Maybe she would've and maybe she wouldn't have. I don't know, but this one sure as hell is!

I've been had once again. I won't be in 2012.

[NoPasaran]

65. Ironic thing

I actually was a Clinton supporter but I'm willing to watch this chess game played out a few moves before sweeping the pieces off the board and stalking away in anger.

[babylonsister]

68. Yes, I remember you were a big Clinton fan. I'm glad you're willing

to give the guy a chance to prove himself first. :thumbsup:

[DevonRex]

9. Yep. That's where I fit.

[AllentownJake]

10. I support and like Barack Obama

I do not worship him and will be celebrating on January 20th with everyone else.

[Dawgs]

24. Nobody worships him.

Your generalizing is not necessary.

[AllentownJake]

26. Quite a few people on here seem to think that disagreeing with anything he does or says

is the most awful thing in the world...that my friend is worship.

[Celebration]

Couldn't have said it better

I really don't like it that he picked Warren. I like his decision about Sec. of Agriculture even less.

I still like him, but we'll see.........

[babylonsister]

13. Me. nt

[Starry Messenger]

16. That's me, too.

[wndycty]

17. Yup it was wrong

:kick: And a remain a strong supporter of Barack Obama.

[TwilightGardener]

18. I disagree with it, but it's just a prayer, not a cabinet position--I can understand

being offended, but it doesn't portend anything policy-wise.

[Dawgs]

22. I am in this group and it makes me sick.

It makes me so ill because I don't if I can trust him to always make the right decision. Prior to this I had no worries.

[AllentownJake]

29. He's going to do some stupid things

I knew that all along. He's human. If I was in his position I'd do some stupid things to. The thing is he'll hopefully do less stupid things than the other guys would.

[tosh]

25. Yep!

[slackmaster]

27. No, I was a Richardson supporter who voted reluctantly for Obama in the primary

Without hesitation in the general election, and have warmed up to him since then after watching his performance in debates, interviews, speeches, etc.

I will trust his judgment and stand behind him until he does something that I believe is truly wrong. At that point I will be all over him "like ugly on a ape" as my beloved uncle used to say.

[Shiver]

31. I am going to steal that phrase.

It is win.

[slackmaster]

36. It's more polite than "flies on shit"

Thanks!

[mkultra]

33. is this a pre primary hillary thread?

just kidding.
I understand his purpose and i support it. Im sure that ole rick warren speaks out against other religions, of which i am a member. I am not bothered nor to i feel that he is furthering my already present discrimination.

Its clear that he is trying to open the ears of social conservatives. Once their ears are open, then mind will listen.

[reflection]

35. I'll chime in for that one.

Not thrilled at all about the Warren choice.

My evangelical fundamental father, however, who wouldn't ever fathom voting for Obama, now thinks "he may not be all that bad."

So whether or not the intent of the Warren pick was to defuse the RW religious demographic and/or bring them into the fold, the pick may have had that effect on some. To me though, it's still not appropriate.

(edit for bad grammar)

[babylonsister]

46. Interesting about your dad-maybe

that's been Obama's intent all along, though I still don't like this choice.

[reflection]

53. It's hard to tell with Obama.

He plays his cards so close to his chest sometimes. He may be thinking as a political animal, or he may really be that tone-deaf with respect to the GLBT demographic. The luxury of being an average voter is that we can take principled positions without much consequence. Obama has to extrapolate every move into the future like any other politician.

Whatever his intent, I hope he reverses himself and picks a less divisive figure for this aspect of his inauguration. Sometimes you should do the right thing regardless of the consequences. This appears to be one of those times.

[mkultra]

50. and finally someone sees the logic

inclusion is harder than people think. Now maybe your dad will be open to Obama's ideas.

Most people who are oppressed as a minority believe that inclusion means "the majority accepting them" but is actually means "both sides accepting one another."

Intellect has always been more like a horse race than a consensus. Someone usually gets there way before the rest.

[DevonRex]

71. That is why the decision was made, I'm sure. And since ALL my family

are fundamentalists, I'll be happy if maybe their minds are opened at least a tiny bit.

[mkultra]

73. seems pretty clear to me

Its the fundies that need to listen. They wont unless they feel included.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

37. Me.

[1776Forever]

38. Totally agree - Warren has said gay marriage is akin to incest, child rape and polygamy

And the man is going to ask God for Obama's future blessings? I have no respect for Rick Warren and feel he is part of the problem and not part of the solution for equal justice for all! This is VERY disappointing to me as I know it is to so many others.

[DevonRex]

42. Yes, it is disappointing. I think a lot of people who bought his books

have no idea what he thinks about gays. He kind of hooked them in with a fairly positive book to start off with. Not positive about gays, mind you. He simply left those beliefs out so he could sell more books. I have no idea what his subsequent books say, but I'm wondering if he sort of gradually exposed his beliefs in them, or if he continued to ignore the issue.

[Jennicut]

44. Hey Jenn, I never knew his views about gays until just a few days ago.

He really sells a very untrue version of himself to some people out there.

[DevonRex]

64. Yes, he does. Imagine if he had spouted those ideas on Oprah.

His beliefs have been pretty well hidden from the general public. He seems so "nice" and "wholesome" doesn't he? Until you dig further. Problem is, most people don't dig further. For one, they don't have the time or even a real interest in it. They bought a book that everybody raved about and said was inspirational. So they think he's great.

[Cogito ergo doleo]

51. Yes... but...

I understand where he's coming from, but on the other hand, we've just come off of 8 years where most of out values were trashed. If it was an uncommonly bad idea, B-pants would do it. The pResident seemed to take on the mantle of Santa Claus to the squirrely right, and at least, I felt like an orphan- an orphan in Wonderland where every thing I believed about this country was turned up-side-down. I felt for the first time what it was to be held in contempt by country: how could it be the country I thought it was, if something like this could happen? So, yeah, I'm feeling sensitive, want to make something of it?

When Obama was elected, I didn't expect to suddenly wake up in a righted world, but I didn't expect contempt, and this Rick Warren thing feels like that. I mean, what it * had picked The Right Reverend William Sloan Coffin? Can you see that? Why couldn't Obama have just picked some obscure Episcopalian priest and let it go at that.

On the other hand, it's simple enough to see that if we get into a position of having presidents become the republic Santa, and the Dem Santa, that kind of thing could spiral out of control rather quickly. So, once again Dems have to suck it up, be the grownups, and right things again. That doesn't mean I can't, or shouldn't be pissed off about it at the same time.

[wryter2000]

59. That describes it for me n/t

n/t

[thewiseguy]

60. Me

[Phredicles]

61. That's me;

Hey, he said on election night we wouldn't agree with everything he'd do. And he was right about that.

But this is at best a misstep - Warren is a fraud, which Obama should have known from the "McCain is in a cone of silence" nonsense. I hope it proves to be rare. And people who aren't happy about it should let him know, to make it less likely it happens again.

[FrenchieCat]

62. I will wait till I hear what Both Obama and Warren and others at the inauguration

have to say.

This move by OBama is obviously part of his plan to unite all Americans,
and after 18 months of hearing Obama state that we rise or fall as one,
I have enough patience, after waiting for 8 years, to wait few more days.

I am a liberal after all, and have an open mind and an open heart.

I will judge by the sum of the parts, and not by each move.

[Kitsune]

66. This whole Warren thing has been a macrocosm of election night for me.

First, utter elation that Obama won (even if it was kind of a foregone conclusion going in). Then, the punch in the gut that was Prop 8. I stayed awake until about 4:30 AM, watching the numbers on the California Secretary of State's website inch one way or the other, until I finally lost hope and crashed.

I've been excited about the inauguration (was never going to go, crowds freak me out), mildly annoyed at some of the crappy cabinet picks Obama's made, but I still thought he'd at least be vaguely on our side. Then he had to go and make the biggest cockup possible. Seriously, the only way he could have made a worse choice would be to have an all-Westboro-Baptist chorus line as the opening act.

I'm just utterly gobsmacked, because it means Obama is completely fucking tone-deaf on GLBT issues or he just doesn't care.

[Mz Pip]

69. I'm disappointed

I wish he had picked someone who didn't have all the negative baggage. There must have been someone out there who could lead the invocation who didn'r have this outspoken divisive point of view.

The Inauguration should be about bring the country together, and having someone who has such reactionary views kickoff the festivities is counter productive.

[elkston]

70. I am a strong Obama supporter. The Warren pick is puzzling.

It seems like a gesture that is absolutely unnecessary. If he wants to reach out more to Warren, then he can go speak at his Church again after he is in office.

But, I figure there is a method to his madness. So I'm behind my main man. Obama has to screw up a TON of stuff for me to move away from him.

[uponit7771]

72. It does more harm than good overall.

[iceman66]

74. I don't like it, but

I still think that we are infinitely better off with Obama than we would be with McCain as the next president.

[mmonk]

76. Present.

[Phx_Dem]

77. Big Obama supporter. Don't like the Warren choice, but not freaked about it.

It's a 3 minute invocation, followed by a bendiction by very pro-gray Rev. Lowry. I'm not gay but I fully support gay rights -- I just can't get that worked up over a 3 minute prayer. Sorry.

[Genevieve]

78. I agree with what you say, 100%.