The truth about Neocons comes out on CNN!!!

[Must_B_Free]

You have to realize that most of the general populace that support don't know what Neocons are or who they are or what their agenda is.

Buchanan - "even a 2nd grader know they didn't attack us because they stumbled on a constitution and bill of rights."

Then Buchanan says that Runny and Cheney were influenced by neocons as early as 98 or 97: "Neocons - Global vision - "Benevolent Global Hegemony" - all close to Likud. "

Wolf - bringing up charges of anti-semitism.

Buchanan - "Bush Outsourced middle east policy to Ariel Sharon."

Wolf - "alot of these neocons are jewish - seen by some as antisemitism."

I guess we're not allowed to discuss this, huh Wolf?

[molly]

1. Alrighty then - did anyone hear someone say to Wolf

"happy New Year"? Guess what. Wolf got very nervous. As a Jew, I do not agree with Ariel Sharon and most Jews do not. It's kind of like associating G.W. with the U.S. I do not, however, sanction attacks against Israel or the entire Jewish community because of a couple of people (neocons) pretending to be on G_d's side.

[Must_B_Free]

2. who said anything about Israel or the entire Jewish community

Buchanan was very specific - Likud and Ariel Sharon.

[still_one]

5. In fact Buchanan specifically mentioned some of the non-Jews

who were neo-cons

Incidently, there are more non-Jews than Jews who are neo-cons in case you are interested

[Philostopher]

4. It's an attempt by the right to conflate Israelis

with American post-Diaspora Jews, the majority of whom are socially liberal and historically vote for Democrats. The right would have us believe all Jews -- whether they live in Israel or in European nations or the U.S. -- have the same priorities (or should) and believe the same things (or should).

I wonder if it isn't part of a subliminal attempt to shame American and European Jews who haven't lived in Israel for a long time or weren't ever there into supporting the neoconservative movement when they aren't concerned with the same issues as those who are living in Israel, and frequently don't want to be, because they're active and participating citizens of the countries they choose to live in now.

I don't know -- am I off base on that? I'm not Jewish, and the Jewish friends I've had over the years all were secular, but it just looks to me like an attempt by the right-wing to shame them into feeling like they're more Israelis than Americans so they'll sympathize with the neoconservative ideology. By calling any identification of right-wing Israelis, Likud, etc. anti-semitism, they hope to get a knee-jerk reaction of sympathy for their cause out of Jews who may well be more concerned with issues in the countries they now call home.

It's just a perception I've had -- I'm not a scholar, just an armchair sociologist, so if I'm wrong I'm glad to hear other opinions.

[still_one]

6. I am Jewish, and most Jews will be voting for Kerry

They also do not believe in the PNAC doctrine

[liberalnurse]

13. I'm glad to hear that......

When Ret. Mayor Koch came out supporting *bush at the repub love fest....I was getting the impression that the Jewish community was turning a deaf ear to the domestic issues in favor Israel issues.

[Hamlette]

30. shaming Jewish people. . .

I'm not Jewish either and at the start of the Iraq war, the months leading up to it, I was surprised to hear my Jewish friends saying the war in Iraq was the right thing to do. I was worried we might lose them to Bush.

They are all voting Kerry. My take is they are one group of people have been persecuted so long, they don't fall for cheap tricks like Bush thinking he can "shame" them. Bush is a madman and they know it, everyone except Koch that is.

[Philostopher]

31. Oh, I didn't say it was successful.

As I noted, we have some friends who are secular Jews, and they're not fooled either. It just seems the way the pundits, neocon politicians and their bought-and-paid-for TV interviewers and commentators play it, it's a transparent effort to have that effect, whether it's successful or not. It sickens me to believe this is what's going on, but it's hard for me to get it out of my head.

[still_one]

8. what is interesting by the latest polls

most Jewish Americans and Arab Americans will be voting for Kerry

If this administration would have continued where Clinton left off in the middle east, I believe their would have been less hurt

[Child_Of_Isis]

15. Everybody is voting

for Kerry, yet bush remains ahead in the (supposed) (and fake) polls. Ha! President Kerry needs to come off the campaign trail and start being the President that he already is! :toast:

[yardwork]

17. Of course not, and most Americans understand this.

The only people who are confused about this are the same people who are W's base - the racist, homophobic, antisemitic freepers.

The neo-cons cynically use the freepers as their Storm Troopers, but they know they're playing with half-tamed beasts. When their usefulness is over, the freepers will be thrown to the lions while the neo-cons rake in the money.

[still_one]

3. Did you notice how they went to a video clip of bush in Russian embasy

essentially by doing that they cut buchanan off

[vetwife]

7. Wolf looked Angry that Buchannan was diagreeing with Bush !

[sundancekid]

10. may not want to hear the truth of "where the right went wrong"

[grasswire]

11. Remember Wolf's background.

He was the Washington Bureau chief for the Jerusalem Post. He isn't exactly without history on these issues.

[oasis]

33. Former Washington Bureau chief for the Jerusalem Post. Wolf may be

slightly biased.

[Snellius]

36. For something like 15 years too

Bucky and Wolfie must get along real nice. Not.

[IndianaGreen]

9. The anti-Semitism libel is always brought up to protect the guilty

The axis of evil of neocons, Likud, and AIPAC's spies is real and a tangible threat to the security of the United States. They already succeeded in getting a paid-for Congress to go along with the war in Iraq, and to pass a prowar resolution against Syria, and now they are trying to do the same about Iran. We cannot have American blood being shed for the sake of the land grabbers in Israel. We must cut the umbilical chord to the criminal cabal that is in power in Jerusalem.

[grasswire]

12. good, clear post, thanks

I think I'll have to get Buchanan's new book.

[Warpy]

14. Lyndon LaRouche was the first to point this stuff out

years ago, proving the adage, "Blessed be the crackpots, for they shall allow in the light."

The truth is that these jokers in the Pentagon DIA, later the OSP, are all rabid Zionists who vet everything with Israel. The FBI went public with the Franklin/AIPAC/Israel spying connection because these jerks had prevailed upon Asscrock to get the whole thing shut down. They are aided and abetted by Armageddon obsessed right wing fundies in the Bush appointistration. We truly have a foreign policy determined by Israel, something that wasn't true when the charge was made in the Arab world 20 years ago, but is now.

Although there are people out there who will use this to justify antisemitism, most people recognize that this is a game going on between power structures, and has nothing to do with any religious or ethnic group as a whole.

This desperately needs to be addressed, and we have to get rid of Bush and his henchmen in order to do so. This is TREASON of the worst sort, sacrificing one's own national interest in favor of a foreign power.

[yardwork]

20. I believe in the sincerity of the Zionists who put power above morality

as much as I believe in the sincerity of the Christian fundamentalists who say that same-sex marriage is the worst problem facing America (and that's a direct quote from Santorum).

It's wrong to generalize by saying that all Zionists are really atheist power-grabbers, just as it is wrong to state that all fundamental Christians are really atheist homophobes. However, I think there is a lot of overlap between the power-grabbers, homophobes, and atheists disguised as religious zealots.

Those intent on personal gain often cloak their true intentions in a show of piety.

[qanda]

16. Hmmm, I wonder why Wolf would be so defensive....

He (Wolf Blitzer) began his career in 1972 with the Reuters News Agency in Tel Aviv. Shortly thereafter, he became a Washington, D.C., correspondent for The Jerusalem Post.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/blitzer.wolf.html

[DulceDecorum]

21. Remind me

who owned the Jerusalem Post when Wolf was working there?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/P/Links

Wasn't it Hollinger?
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB107844483915947111-IBje4Nhlad3npuvaX6GaaqJm4,00.html

The Hollinger of Conrad Black and Richard Perle?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1093921795200
Richard Perle the neo-con?

Darn,
you people are biting the hand that feeds the Wolf.

[AntiCoup2K4]

18. I had an argument with a right wing Jewish neocon on another board...

Not only did this clown try to tag me as an "anti-semite" for being opposed to PNAC & Likud, but when I pointed out that most Jews also oppose these policies, he actually referred to them as "self-hating Jews". Oy vey :eyes:

I'm a moderator at that board and I traced the guy's IP address.... went right to Washington DC. Seems like the PNAC'ers have their minions everywhere.......

[cliss]

19. I'm no expert but....

why do I have this nagging feeling that the NeoCons are exploiting the situation in Israel? I have this funny feeling there is a Con Job going on. I'm not so sure Bush is really defending Israel, like he says he does.

And why, in turn, do I believe that the Israelis are using Bush administration to further their plans?

I think that both sides are using the other. They both know the other side can't be trusted, but they'll take what they can in the meantime.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

22. I guess many left-wing Jews in Israel are Anti-Semitic

The left-wing newspaper Haaretz being one. I guess to Wolf Blitzer, Haaretz is extremely anti-Semitic. Here is an article appearing in Haaretz describing the Neocon agenda:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtWar.jhtml?itemNo=280279&contrassID=33&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=4

"...The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it's possible. But another journalist, Thomas Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical..."

"...Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite..."

[GOPAgainstGW]

23. GOOD BLESS PAT BUCHANAN FOR TALKING ABOUT THE DIRTY U.S. SECRET!

- OUR OUT OF CONTROL MIDDLE EAST AND ISRAEL POLICY PROBLEMS!

And for the record, the Clinton Administration didn't do anything about it either Ok, and it could cost Kerry this election.

We will post a new thread on this looming problem we see that could torpedo Kerry winning in November. Kerry trying to run a Clinton style ’92 Domestic Issues campaign is crazy with this massive U.S.-Middle East war going on, and any second one of our major cities could be hit by a massive Islamic terrorist attack which includes nuclear and biological warfair. Karl Rove knows it too and will beat Kerry silly over this situation.

However, I/we believe that Kerry is the ONLY person in Washington that can lead this Country out of this massive problem. The man has already well demonstrated his ability twice, and this is what he has to run on and forget everything else.

------------------------------
Beltway and Texas Republicans
Against Bush-Cheney ’04, Inc.
------------------------------
"Insider’s News”, Vol 1 - Kerry-Edwards Campaign Doing Well
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x748458
“Insider’s News” Vol 1.1 - Great Anti-Bush Sites
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x756409

[Czolgosz]

24. Help requested -- what is a neocon?

I am aware of the glib "a Jewish Republican" definition of "neocon." I don't buy that. Here is a debate on another board about whether Arnold Schwarzenegger or Rudy Giuliani are neocons:

ONE VIEW:

Neither Arnold Schwarzenegger nor Rudy Giuliani are neocons, but Pat Buchanan is a conservative.
Conservatives favor the status quo and oppose change. Conservatives (and I consider myself one) are not pleased with huge deficits (they are destabilizing) or preemptive wars (we have always been a more cautious country, historically, and have generally moved with global consensus and not against the global consensus). Both your good example of a conservative (Buchanan) and I disagree with the Bush administration on these conservative grounds.
The neo-conservatives share the conservatives' preference for traditional values (in fact, they generally want to roll back social values past what is the current status quo to achieve the status ante -- the values that were mainstream some time ago but are no longer status quo) and they do not oppose change. They embrace change. The neo-conservatives want to enforce change where ever they can to expand their agenda. The neo-conservatives (Bush 42 -- but not his dad Bush 41, Dick Cheney, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, Bill Kristol, etc.) want to remake the world in their own image. The neo-conservatives are imperialist, activist, and messianic. The neo-conservatives do not favor social tolerance, they do not favor limited government, and they do not favor internationalism.
Schwarzenegger and Giuliani are not neo-conservatives. I hate to tell you this, but they are liberals. They are small government liberals, but they are liberals.

OTHER VIEW:

You did hit some of the points...Conservatives or traditionally isolationists and status quo. Neocons on the other hand tend to be more fiscal conservative but socially liberal (i.e Ruddy and Arnold). In the 80s (when the term first was seen) it was used to describe many of the Reagan Democrats. Those on the left who came over to the right because they weren't happy with the democrats foreign policy. However, neocons tend to hold more deeply to the secular world then do traditional conservatives. I wouldn't call myself a complete conservative because of my stance on isolationism...however I do find myself more in their camp when it comes to traditional values and fiscal policy as well as states rights and social power (versus state power).

MY VIEW:

I would like help with other people's view of what a neocon is. I tend to think that a neocon is defined by its relationship to a true conservative (i.e., isolationist vs. preemptive imperialist, activist vs. status-quo). I think that newcons are what used to reactionaries; neocons are at the opposite end of the Republican party from the Libertarian-leaning Republicans. Any thoughts?

[BootinUp]

25. Wikipedia has a thorough section on neoconservatism in U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_%28United_States%29

I think many DU'ers have a pretty good understanding of it actually.

cheers

[Czolgosz]

27. Thanks.

I know that everyone here has a pretty good understanding of what a neocon is. It's just that you sometimes get an "I know one when I see one" type definition, and I was looking for something like what you provided. Any thoughts on whether Rudy or Arnold embrace or eschew the label? Thanks again.

[BootinUp]

29. Well my guess is

that as supposed moderates, they would reject that label so as not to alienate the middle to middle-left that views it as a kind of a dirty word as a result of the democrats efforts to raise awareness of neoconservatism. But even neoconservatives reject the label see the section on Criticism of term at the wikipedia link.

[Czolgosz]

32. The criticism section of the link was helpful

Since Schwarzenegger took the bold move of outing himself as Nixon Republican at the RNC hatefest, I suppose you could fairly say that Schwarzenegger is not a neo-conservative sonce Nixon seems to represent the exact opposite end of the Republican spectrum from the neo-conservatives (e.g., Nixon's embrace of internationalism, diplomacy, and bi-lateral arms control agreements seems contrary to neo-conservative thought).

[Stephanie]

37. Neocon refers to a small group of like-minded global strategists

who urged this Iraq war as the first step in a plan to reshape the Middle East and achieve American hegemony, i.e. we would be the one acknowledged super-power.

The neocons studied under Strauss and Wohlstetter. They are mainly out of the Univ. of Chicago. They are members of AEI and signatories to PNAC and they write for the Weekly Standard. They are Wolfowitz, Perle, Libby, Feith, Cambone, Bolten, Woolsey, Kristol, Chalabi, and others. They have hijacked American foreign policy to test out their academic theories of global strategy. And they have failed.

Click the PNAC link in my sig for many articles on this.

[Czolgosz]

39. Thanks n/t

[peacetalksforall]

26. The parallel of "if you're not with us, you're against us" is

"if you're not for current Israel policy, you're an anti-semite" - it is a most deceitful and inaccurate comparision and the term "anti-semite' is a deceitful and misleading term.

The people who push this unreal parallel and use the term are people like Ken Adelman whose day and night job is pushing the neo-con and Sharon agenda.

It is used to rile people who are not anti-semite into thinking that the current U.S. policy is good for Israel.

I have spent a lot of thought trying to figure out why there is a triad relationship between the Bushes, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. Someone on this forum pointed out that a no peace with Palestine stalemate (and untold deaths) fits the Saudi family agenda. Peace between Israel and Palestine is equal to democracy for Palestinians which the Saudi regime fears - they don't want democracy.

No one seems to be impressed with the fact that Jews and Christians who make up the block of maniacs who are running the world right now are doing it for and with the Bushes, Sharon Likudites, and the Saudi royal family and operatives.

I think those people and the agencies of New York state who are suing the Saudi Royal family should also sue Sharon and his party.

They are all acting together.

The relationship between the non-democratic Saudi Arabia and the Bushes has got to make people laugh with disgust.

As to Israel - we might as well call it and make it the 51st State and get it over with - forego the investigations of treason which it appears to be, but we really need to put these people in jail and expose the partnership with the U.K. in the whole scheme of it.

[oasis]

34. Our media and our congress steer clear of the "I" word. (eom)

[Bush was AWOL]

28. Buchanon is against US imperialism

That is what he sees, and is why he is speaking out.

[Sideways]

35. Buchanan Was Priceless

Wolf trying so fucking hard to push THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOM...and Pat coming back with IF YOU THINK THAT OSAMA AND CREW WERE IN A CAVE IN TORA BORA READING THE CONSTITUTION AND THAT IS WHY THEY HATE US... EVEN A SECOND GRADER WOULD NOT BUY IT....WOLF IT IS ABOUT POLICY....

Wolf being willfully obtuse starts to push the anti-semitism card...I was laughing my ass off. If Wolf and Pat go at this again I will be ass-less. My tiny hiney just can not get much smaller.:silly:

[Cocoa]

38. Buchanan lets Richard Perle off the hook

proves the neocons right.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2106499

[JPJones]

40. Please, Timothy Noah needs to apoligize to us

for writing such a stupid article.

[Disturbed]

41. P. Buchanon..

wants the Repubs to kick out the Neo Fascists and anti-Christ Right Wingers. Some people have accused him of being anti-Semetic. I don't feel that he is. He is a Paleo-Conserv. There are quite a few Paleo-Conservs and they are in a quandry as to what to do with the Neo Fascists that are in power.