What I wanted to hear --Obama "I am calling for the start of an immediate withdrawal

[Laura PourMeADrink]

from Iraq."

To me, his response - "16 mos, combat only" was entirely too luke warm.

[GarbagemanLB]

1. Yeah, it was only what he had been saying on the campaign trail for months.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

2. but he did, used to say, (paraphrasing) that on Jan 21 I will instruct

my team to get a plan to get out.

He's lost that urgency and it makes me very sad.

[Radical Activist]

4. making a plan to get out

is not pulling out in a day. Its making a plan for withdrawal that doesn't cost any more lives than necessary. It sounds like this is exactly what he's doing.

[AlCzervik]

5. winner.

i have a nephew there on his 3rd tour, i'd like him to make it home in one piece.

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. Maybe getting Gates on board in this round started the ball rolling

earlier than it would have with someone else.

I'm sure even though the
defense department saw this coming they were doing as little as possible
to really institute a plan with any conviction.

I saw keeping Gates as a twofer for Obama, the other was to help with
the reform and weeding out of the department of old neo-cons.
That department is still scary considering all the nuke problems they've had.

[ieoeja]

28. I don't understand DUers hatred of Gates.

A lot of people claim he supported this Occupation, but nobody has ever shown me a quote from the man saying he supported it. He *has* been extremly critical of the way the Occupation was launched. He openly advocated direct negotiations with Iran years before the Occupation. Before becoming Secretary of Defense he was on the Iraq Study Group which concluded we should either (a) get out of Iraq sooner rather than later or (b) bring Iran and Syria into Iraqi negotiations.

He has never claimed to be a Democrat or a Republican. But he certainly sounds more progressive than neocon to me.

[Radical Activist]

29. I didn't know that.

Interesting points.

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. Gates has Iran Contra ties and implications of major improprieties

From Democracy Now:



Melvin Goodman:
Bob Gates, over the period of the 1980s, as a deputy for Intelligence and then as a deputy to CIA director Bill Casey, was politicizing intelligence. He was spinning intelligence on all of the major issues of the day, on the Soviet Union, on Central America, on the Middle East, on Southwest Asia. And I thought this record, this charge, should be presented before the Senate Intelligence Committee.

I think also it’s important that Bob Gates is a graduate of the Iran-Contra class of 1986. And the reason why he had to withdraw his nomination in 1987 was simply because the majority of the members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, when Ronald Reagan nominated Gates as CIA director, did not believe Gates’s pleas that he knew nothing about Iran-Contra and this was happening around him, but he wasn’t part of it.

And, of course, in 1991, he attracted 31 negative votes, more than all of the votes against all of the CIA directors in history going back to 1947. So I think the committee believed that he was spinning the intelligence, and there was this great controversy, but the Republicans held the line. They made this a loyalty test to President George Bush, and so he was confirmed. But 31 negative votes was very significant.

Melvin Goodman, former CIA and State Department analyst. He is a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy and director of the Center’s National Security Project. From 1966-1986 he was a senior CIA soviet analyst. In 1991 he was one of three former CIA officials to testify before the Senate against the nomination of Robert Gates as director of central intelligence. Goodman is co-author of the book, “Bush League Diplomacy: How the Neoconservatives are Putting the World at Risk.”


>>>>>snip


Melvin Goodman, former CIA and State Department analyst. He is a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy and director of the Center’s National Security Project. From 1966-1986 he was a senior CIA soviet analyst. In 1991 he was one of three former CIA officials to testify before the Senate against the nomination of Robert Gates as director of central intelligence. Goodman is co-author of the book, “Bush League Diplomacy: How the Neoconservatives are Putting the World at Risk.”


The thing is I don't trust this bastard but I trust the Defense Department even less right now.
Gates is a follower and not a leader and I'm sure Obama and his crew are well aware
of his background. Also we know now that the Gassing of the Kurds could have been stopped.

Ugly business all around.

[ieoeja]

31. Independant Counsel

The same Independant Counsel who nailed Poindexter, North and Weinberger cleared Gates of all wrongdoing.

[Ichingcarpenter]

34. I said his involvement was tainted

I will accept him as SOD for now, still don't trust him considering his
work with the CIA during the Reagan years.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

8. I totally understand there needs to be a plan. It's that there was

absolutely no urgency or immediacy to it - the way he used to speak.

[FrenchieCat]

3. I think it was as hot as he could have given at this time.

Considering.....

But most will read into it what they will.....
Which equated to being as careful getting out as were careless getting in.

In otherwords, He said again today what he has said all along.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. I know and I agree about responsible pullout - there was just no

urgency in his voice at all. Not like there used to be.

[FrenchieCat]

9. I think that the urgency is there......

but at this time, he has to wait....just like the rest of us.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. Hope you are right - because since the primaries ended - 56

US soldiers have died.

[FrenchieCat]

13. There is little that Obama can do about that......

as you know.

[Uzybone]

11. The campaign is over

Maybe you need to get used to that. There will be no more fiery speeches from Obama now that he is president. His plan regarding Iraq is still the same, he just isn't saying it in front of 100,000 supporters with rick music playing in the background.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. Yep. Just like the soldier I met on a plane a couple months ago

said, none of us listen to any politicians because they all lie. I hope the families of the 56 soldiers who have died since
the primaries ended can, as you say, "get used to that."

[rvablue]

16. Name one concrete thing that Obama could have done since the election

to have saved the lives of those 56 soldiers.

He isn't president yet.

[atimetocome]

17. :-(

[Uzybone]

21. Get used to the lack of fiery speeches

Like I said, the plan is the same. You are sad because Obama doesn't seem as urgent as he did during the campaign. You need to get used to the fact the campaign is over. Fiery talk means nothing at this point.

I never said get used to Obama not making good on his promises because I believe he will make good.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

25. "You need to" "You are" "Get used to.." Yikes ! Who appointed

you in charge of telling me what to think?

[sandnsea]

6. An Embassy requires troops

And there is absolutely no reason we shouldn't have Embassies around the world, just like every other country does. I hope the monstrosity that was built is reduced significantly, but there will still be a need for troops at it, just like there is at every embassy. I also don't think we need a training mission, but we'll see if he brings in troops from the region and makes it more international. But a responsible drawdown is the same thing Murtha planned, so it's the best anyone should have hoped for.

[phleshdef]

14. Immediate withdrawal would be irresponsible and could actually cost troop lives in the process,

At least thats what I've heard from every single military minded expert on the topic. You can't just go yanking thousands and thousands of troops out without total chaos and anarchy ensuing in the middle of it all. Get real.

You are missing the key difference here. The mission he said that he is giving to the Sec of Defense is a mission where a responsible withdrawal and end to the war is top priority. That mission has never been given before. The mission before was basically to hold the stalemate until Bush figures out what to do next (which never happened and never would have happened).

[Laura PourMeADrink]

23. No, you have missed my point. Did I say anything about a

preciptous withdrawal - no!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. No, you have missed my point. Did I say anything about a

preciptous withdrawal - no!

[LaPera]

36. What "military minded expert"? They are ALL paid by networks & get their talking points from the

Pentagon and most "military experts" like Carferty (NBC) work for the same corporations whose profits depend on keeping the war and troops in Iraq as long as possible....I've heard many retired military who are not on payrolls or used by the Pentagon as spokespersons say the opposite....What's going to happen is going to happen whether we live in a couple of month's (which they can do in) or five years from now...we are just prolonging it for profits because we listen to paid "military minded expert" assholes!

[phleshdef]

37. Wes Clark, Jim Webb, John Kerry, Chuck Hagel.

Need more?

[atimetocome]

15. and that was followed by a .....But......

paraphrase--I will listen to the commanders on the ground.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Which as been the case, even when Obama was running.

[atimetocome]

20. Yes, you are right. But it does have a familiar ring to it--for several years

now.

[FrenchieCat]

22. Speculation of the future is fine.

I'm going with "We shall see".

I've been waiting for some time now....so patience for me is the best reasonable and realistic option.

[ecstatic]

26. I think that's exactly what he will do...but quietly.

The campaign is over. No need to shout about what he will do. The time has come for him to do it, and that's what he will do. :)

[camera obscura]

27. I'm sure Bush would honor that :P

[FriendlyReminder]

32. Let's hope that once he gets into office, he can really start doing what he promised

during the election season. It will be a "breath of fresh air" to see a President do what they actually said they were going to do! I can't wait.....hurry......let's get on with it already!!!

[Hippo_Tron]

33. The Iraqi government has said by the end of 2011, I assume Obama will comply with their wishes

No it's not the same as literally lining up the humvees and driving out as some people want, but 2011 is a drop in the bucket compared to 100 more years.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

35. Well thank god for the Iraqi government who is kicking us the hell out!

[Mass]

38. This is the position he has taken for the last two years.

So there is no surprise there. I guess most people would like to see that happen quicker, but nobody in the political and military world have been calling for an immediate and complete withdrawal.

Kerry/Feingold calls for all combat troops in one year (and it never passed the Senate by far). The Out of Iraq caucus calls for withdrawal in 6 months.

What is important is how soon they start, and Obama has said he would direct the SecDef to do that immediately after he takes office, and what will be the residual forces. This is where there is debate as some people would want to leave at least 60,000 troops and other a much smaller numbers, in the order of a few thousand. This is probably what will need to be looked at seriously during the next few weeks and months.