FUCK YOU FILE: Priest urgest Obama voters to confess

[BuyingThyme]

Priest urgest Obama voters to confess
By Ken Carlson McClatchy Newspapers
Published: Sunday, Nov. 30, 2008 2:24 p.m. MST


MODESTO, Calif. — Several people attending mass Saturday evening at St. Joseph's Catholic Church said they support a Modesto priest who is urging parishioners to go to confession if they voted for Barack Obama.

The Rev. Joseph Illo took issue with Obama's pro-choice position in a Nov. 21 letter sent to 15,000 members of the St. Joseph's parish. "If ... you were clear on his position and you knew the gravity of the question, I urge you to go to confession before receiving communion," his letter said.

...

A number of people attending the evening mass at the church stopped to hug Illo outside the entrance. Illo was not scheduled to preside over the mass but said he was going to make a statement about his letter at services this morning.

According to exit polling, 54 percent of Catholics nationwide voted for Obama in an election in which the economy, Iraq, health care and other issues were on the minds of voters.

http://deseretnews.com/article/0,5143,705267077,00.html

Priest says those who voted for Obama should confess
Published: Sunday, Nov. 30, 2008 | Page 4A

MODESTO – A Roman Catholic priest has told parishioners they should confess if they voted for Barack Obama because the president-elect supports abortion rights.

...

In an interview last week with the Modesto Bee, Illo said he sent the letter because Catholic teaching requires that people go to confession when they commit a mortal sin.

The Most Rev. Stephen Blaire, bishop of the Stockton diocese, disagreed with Ilo. Catholics were not in need of confession if they voted for Obama after considering many issues, the bishop said. He also said Catholics should not be compelled to disclose how they voted to their priest.

Saturday, Illo said he would make a statement about his letter at services this morning.

– Modesto Bee, Associated Press

http://www.sacbee.com/religion/story/1437102.html

[patrice]

1. So, how close are you to your quota on this one for the day? nt

[BuyingThyme]

5. This is the fist I've seen of it.

Are you getting this incident confused with other atrocities being committed by the Catholic leadership?

[Buzz Clik]

2. Forgive me father, but I have sinned. I made the assumption years ago...

... that you weren't a fucking moron.

[Jennicut]

3. Are they going to urge no communion for Biden too since he is Obama's VP and also Catholic?

This is persecution of people's beliefs and utterly ridiculous.

[Taverner]

32. He would be smart enough to find the right parish before going into politics

[pnwmom]

38. This is one priest who was specifically overruled on this by his Bishop.

This is not any kind of official position. There is no "they" here.

[ShadowLiberal]

45. From what I read they'll 'probably' let him have communion

It wasn't a definite thing when I read it, but they were leaning strongly towards not making it an issue.

[karynnj]

52. I've never read it was a problem in his Delaware parish

In DC, it was not a problem for John Kerry (nor was his Boston parish). Biden has often spoken o his Irish Catholic faith and it is clearly important to him and did influence him enormously. (What is sad is that some factions of the Catholic church are so focused on abortion, that they would reject both of these religious Catholics.

[polichick]

4. Good grief, when are Catholics going to say no to all the nonsense?

[onehandle]

9. I would if I witnessed it.

I only see this stuff posted at Democratic Underground. Because DUers go out of their way to find it.

95%+ of Catholics (and every other religious group) are not involved with extremism.

When the Pope says, confess if you voted for Obama and not just some yahoo, then I'll say no to "the nonsense."

[we can do it]

27. Its Big Here In Ohio- You Don't Have To Go Looking for it Either

[RetroLounge]

30. So it's the messenger's fault

Damn you DU'ers...

RL

[rvablue]

11. We already did at the ballot box. The grand majority of Catholics voted for Obama and

individual Catholics living all over the country (and the world for that matter) cannot control, nor care, what comes out of one priest's mouth.

[pnwmom]

39. The priest's Catholic Bishop said no to this nonsense. Doesn't he count? n/t

[polichick]

40. I just don't understand how people can keep going to church at all...

Really, why do intelligent people think they need a minister/priest/pope/whatever to tell them what to do? Why not deal directly with God without controlling go-betweens?

(I thought this when I was in parochial school, just more so now.)

[pnwmom]

41. For the community. It's the body of people at the Church that's important.

The priest is just one member.

[polichick]

42. Well, that must be it. I just can't do it anymore...

...although in the past I've enjoyed Unitarian churches from time to time ~ very open minded.

[Two Americas]

43. that is an important point

People assume that it is the leaders that define an organization, that members are completely subservient to leaders - that an organization is merely a mob attracted to a strong authority figure, and that the only thing we need to decide is which hero to worship or dictator to obey. There is a presumption that all organizations are authoritarian, that the only thing that members of a group share is allegiance to some authority figure, and identification with authority figures. It is as though they cannot imagine any other model for human communities, and project that onto the Church. Since they object to what a leader says, therefore all members of the community are guilty of something, or have no rational reason for being part of a community. Of course, rejecting belonging to any community that is imperfect just happens to dovetail perfectly with the ethic of rugged individualism, of self-centered libertarianism and of the cult of self-discovery that dominates modern society.

Notice that people look at politics the same way - as hero worship and cult of personality.

[polichick]

51. Lol - it's not a stretch to consider the Catholic Church authoritarian...

The pope is yet another big daddy figure, like many versions of God. If anything is "top-down," it's the Catholic Church.

Maybe people go because they enjoy the other members, but that doesn't change the structure of the organization. And if that structure wasn't important, those same people would simply meet outside the church.

[Two Americas]

53. voluntary society

Your boss can fire you, politicians and government officials can jail or kill you. The Church is a voluntary society. One could be tossed or denied communion, but that is rare.

People do meet outside of the Church, and work with the poor, and take care of the elderly, and take political action, all the time. Many people still consider themselves to be members of the community who do not attend services.

We all participate in "top down" organizations - compliance with our bosses and with the government are the prime examples.

We would not say "how can you people still call yourselves Democrats?" because of something Zell Miller or Joe Lieberman said, or because Democratic politicians from the South were opposed to the Civil Rights movement.

Criticize the particular people for their specific remarks. I object to the attacks on all Catholics based on the remarks of a few.

[pnwmom]

61. The people in the pews routinely ignore the top-down structure of the Church.

Many millions go because they happen to like their priest, or the rest of the people there, or because they want to receive the sacraments. And when the hierarchy does something they disagree with, they ignore it.

For example, the Church has an authoritarian attitude about birth control. But Catholic lay people are just as likely to use birth control as the rest of the population.

[Two Americas]

63. yes

And more likely to vote Democratic, too, then many other segments of the population.

[awoke_in_2003]

57. They keep going to church

for the same reason they keep believing in a god- it makes them feel good, just like using opium.

[ZombieHorde]

64. Yes, he does count.

[awoke_in_2003]

56. About the same time...

that all of humanity says no to ALL the nonsense (read religion)

[sellitman]

6. The Catholic Taliban

Fuck these asshole.

[JI7]

7. what is the position of these people on the war in Iraq ?

on guantanimo, torture. on Katrina ?

where do these people stand on these issues ? on the homeless ?

[movonne]

31. This is what makes me angry....the only subject they care about is

abortion....if they really did care it would be bush voters they would tell to confess...many of these big churches are corporations and they want to control the flock..

[Two Americas]

44. the community

There is no stronger community on issues of social justice, poverty, torture, the death penalty, fair treatment for workers, and illegal war.

[Danger Mouse]

8. Forgive me Father, for I have sinned.

I have been sitting in church listening to the rantings of a brain dead demagogue when I could've been out doing something productive, like picking my nose.

[JNelson6563]

14. My last confession was

I don't know...15 years or so ago>>? Anyhoo, since then I have become an atheist and worked my guts out to get pro-choice Democrats elected to office. If there is a hell I'll see ya there. :toast:

Julie the godless heathen

[GoesTo11]

10. How about if 54% of American Catholics just leave the church

That'd larn 'em.

[polichick]

13. I can't believe so many stayed after the institutionalized pedophilia outing...

...what's it going to take for people to walk out on these corrupt control freaks?

[arewenotdemo]

26. Good point. If they're willing to offer their own children

to the Church to be raped...

[Sub Atomic]

12. Is this asshat urging Bush voters to confess, too?

Bush hasn't done a damn thing to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Why isn't this asshat preaching about that?

[BuyingThyme]

15. Is "urgest" a typo; or a Bible kinda deal?

[Faygo Kid]

23. I remember feeling "urgest" when I tried to make myself blind in my youth quite often.

If you get my drift.

[Clintonista2]

16. I went to a catholic school...

The students and teachers there were *very* liberal. Once a week a priest would visit our homeroom and yap about something or another, and on election day 2004 I was wearing my John Kerry pin when he popped in. He was rather upset to see my button, and asked "don't you know he's not pro-life?!?!?" I asked him if he was supporting Bush (he was), and then asked him how anyone could be pro-life and pro-war at the same time (he had no response). We spent the rest of the class (after he had left) basically talking about what a hypocrite the priest was, it was great.

Also, going off on another tangent, I'll never forget this one parent-teacher interview where one of my teachers told my parents "your son and I have lots in common!" My dad asked "oh? like what?" and the teacher replied "we both hate Bush." I'll always have a special place in my heart for that teacher.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

22. My Catholic H.S. was the same way, Lirwin

Extremely liberal school. We were taught that the Bible was a collection of myths (not inerrant), Bush was hated, and the idea that evolution was not accepted never crossed our minds.

It's odd how large the spectrum of American Catholics is.

[williesgirl]

17. The Catholic Church in America should lose it's tax exempt status NOW. They continue to mess with

our elections and government. Fuck them. And I was born and raised Catholic.

[BuyingThyme]

19. Amen sister.

[polichick]

20. imo ALL churches should pay taxes - it's outrageous what they get away with.

[LaydeeBug]

18. As a catholic, I'm wondering if the good Father expects McCain voters to repent and atone as well...

for being pro death penalty. It amazes me how it's okay, as long as you're crotch sniffing.

[BuyingThyme]

21. Authoritarianism is a virtue.

[LaydeeBug]

25. and how. nt

[Karenina]

24. Instant karma kickback for a pedophile priest?

Enquiring minds want to know.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4561396&mesg_id=4561396

[MBS]

28. this guy's own bishop basically says the priest is off base

Nice reversal of the typical pattern (the bishops usually tend to be more conservative than the priests) The Modesto Bee November 29, 2008
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/515762.html

The Most Rev. Stephen Blaire, bishop of the Stockton Diocese, disagrees with Illo. He said Catholics should not feel compelled to disclose how they voted to their priest.

Blaire said Catholics who carefully weighed many issues and settled on a candidate, such as Obama, who was supportive of abortion rights, were not in need of confession. He said confession would be necessary "only if someone voted for a pro-abortion or pro-choice candidate -- if that's the reason you voted for them."

"Our position on pro-life is very important, but there are other issues," Blaire said. "No one candidate reflects everything that we stand for. I'm sure that most Catholics who voted were voting on economic issues.

"There were probably many priests, and I suspect many bishops, who voted for Obama.". . .

Like other posters, I also went to a liberal Catholic high school, and to a liberal parish. They're really not all as bad as this guy. Unfortunately, these folks tend to be the loudest these days, and, for the moment, many are in positions of power. (Some of the worst of these in the last couple of months have really gone overboard, even by the most strident so-called "pro-life" (NOT) standards -- I think they've freaked out because they lost. ). But this too shall pass.(I hope, since I am thoroughly sick of these guys)

[BuyingThyme]

29. Why don't they just wiretap them?

[BlooInBloo]

33. Heh. If religious professionals weren't already on my "fuck you" list, they would be for this.

[LWolf]

34. Remove that tax exempt status. Yesterday. nt

[vanboggie]

35. I just wrote the SOB

I see his email address is no longer clickable, but it wasn't difficult to figure out what it is.

TO: [e-mail]
RE: You're the reason I'm no longer Catholic

I left long ago because Catholic hypocrites like you drove me away.

What an awful statement about Barack Obama when we are coming to the end of the reign of faux Christians like Bush & Cheney who murdered thousands and looted the American taxpayer. I believe they pretended to be anti-abortion, but they are liars.

Perhaps you should start living your life like a Christian instead of pretending to be a man of God. I do think there was a Jesus who was a cool guy and loving man like the Buddah. But you have twisted the man's message for your own purposes. Catholicism has been used through the ages to control the population, and you are living proof of it.

You, sir, are a fake Christian.


Yep, I sent it and I feel better. Oh, and it has been 44 years since my last Confession

Edited to add evil grin :evilgrin:

[mtnsnake]

36. That's even worse than that stupid "You can't be Catholic and Pro-Abortion" bumper sticker

that seems to be so popular among dimwits. I was pumping gas behind a guy who had that on the back of his big SUV, and I told him "Hey there, I'm Catholic and pro-choice." All he did was look at me like he was confused and then he paid with his card and left.

[Alter Ego]

59. I'd like to get one that says "You can't be Catholic and Pro-War".

[MasonJar]

37. Jesus would have voted for Obama, you thickheaded fool. I suppose you supported

Bush's wars based on lies, his renditions, tortures and spying on USA citizens, not to forget Tony Blair et al.

[ShadowLiberal]

46. So when is that individual church going to lose it's tax exempt status

That's similar to what I read years ago some nutty pastor on the east coast (forget where exactly) was doing, kicking out members of his church who voted for democrats, the guy basically lost 2/3's of his congregation due to a bunch of other people leaving the church in protest.

[alfredo]

47. Sorry, I don't take orders from men who play dress up and pretend to

be a conduit of some invisible cloud being.

[WCGreen]

48. This is why I am no longer a Catholic....

I love the ritual, the peace of the mass but I can't meld my political views with those of a church that can't even embrase birth control...

[WinkyDink]

49. Would this Confession be before or after I prayed to God for Homeland Security?

[CreekDog]

50. He's right

I confess I could have done more to help Obama win.

[gauguin57]

54. Hello, IRS?

This politically involved organization has tax-exempt status WHY?

And they can sell some of their billions in art treasures to pay their back taxes.

(sorry to DU Catholics, but ...) They need to shut down the political activities of these old men in dresses.

(And yes, I'm lapsed, and I have ISSUES!).

[BuyingThyme]

55. Shouldn't all DUers get tax-exempt status too?

[TrogL]

58. Fed up Catholics are welcomed at Anglican/Episcopal churches

[boomerbust]

60. IRS

Forgive me Father for thinking the Catholic Church should pay taxes for using politics to further their religious beliefs.

[and-justice-for-all]

62. We dont need to confess for a damn thing!!

How about they confess and apologies for electing Shrub! TWICE!!

[McCamy Taylor]

65. All Catholic Americans need to confess because our country tortures and murders prisoners

and that is a sin. So get your butts to Church and tell your priest that you are sorry that you are a citizen of such an awful country that commits war crimes but you hope it will be better under Obama.

[McCamy Taylor]

66. And confess that you are a member of a Church that shelters pedophile priests, too

and that you have even given money to that Church which makes you a supporter of pedophiles and ask your priest if you can still take communion of if you need to change to some church in which the priests can get married instead of diddling little boys.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

67. Father Illo is interrpeting his religion correctly, and catholics who voted for Obama are not.

Successive popes and the catholic heirarchy have made it very clear that in Catholic teaching the most important issues are opposition to abortion, gay rights, euthanasia and stem cell research, and that all other issues are negotiable and subsidiary to these.

He hasn't actually come out and said "vote Republican" because of the furore it would cause, but he's made it 100% clear that anyone who doesn't is not following Catholic teaching.

Catholicism is a top-down religion. If you disobey with the pope then you may well be right (in the case of the current pope, you almost certainly are), but you're not following Catholic teaching.