More family values at work - this time with Christmas decorations

[Rocknrule]

What the hell does this resemble to you?

https://store.afa.net/pc-10000310-11-christmas-cross.aspx

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

1. They don't even know how to spell. "Separate" is spelled wrong.

[Gormy Cuss]

2. That would look perfect as part of the AFA Christmas scene.

[1corona4u]

3. A cross.

If I recall, crosses were around for religious reasons, long before their 2nd purpose.

[KittyWampus]

4. a cross lit up in white lights.

[joeglow3]

5. ???????????

I am confused. Why are you offended by this?

[Mojambo]

6. I love the American Family Association SO much. n/t

[janx]

7. It looks like a cross made of a few pieces of wood with some

lights attached. It is rather large, though...5'5" ?

Also, the price: over eighty bucks?! A boy scout could have made that!

[jkshaw]

8. Easter

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. I grew up in the South and Remember seeing those things

But not a Christmas Time.

[msongs]

10. exactly - are they suitable for putting the front yards of black people in the dead of night? nt

[Kalyke]

28. I grew up in the South - and still live here - and have never seen

one of those things. How old are you???

:eyes:

[awoke_in_2003]

34. I think the poster

is referring to crosses on fire, you know, KKK

[Ichingcarpenter]

40. Saw one burning in 1970 between Sumter and Lake City at Night

Traveling late in the wrong place at the wrong time late at night with friends in South Carolina.


Recent cases:

Indiana Man Sentenced For Role In Cross-Burning 2008:
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS224151+04-Jan-2008+PRN20080104

Florida Man Sentenced in Cross Burning

WASHINGTON – Neal Chapman Coombs, a 50-year-old resident of Hastings, Fla., was sentenced today to 14 months in prison, to be followed by three years of supervised release, the Justice Department announced today. Coombs pleaded guilty on August 16, 2006 to a racially-motivated civil rights crime involving a cross burning.

In August 2006, Coombs was charged with knowingly and willfully intimidating an African-American family that was negotiating for the purchase of a house in Hastings, Fla., by threat of force and the use of fire. Specifically, it was alleged that Coombs’ actions were motivated by the family’s race and that he burned a cross on property adjacent to the house.

Dept. of Justice:http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2007/January/07_crt_064.html

Man sentenced for cross-burning

By Steve Lyttle
[e-mail]
Posted: Monday, Nov. 24, 2008
A Rutherford County man was sentenced last week to more than two years in federal prison after being found guilty in a cross-burning incident more than a year ago.

Curtis Gene Worley, 51, of Spindale, was sentenced in U.S. District Court in Asheville to 28 months in prison, followed by two years of supervised release. He had pled guilty to one count of using fire to injure, intimidate and interfere with the right to occupy a dwelling because of race or color.

According to information presented in a court hearing, Worley built and burned a cross on or near property owned by his neighbor, an African American woman. The incident happened Sept. 25, 2007, in the Rutherford County town of Ellenboro.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/374245.html


Georgia Man sentenced for Cross Burning:
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The Justice Department today announced the sentencing of Moultrie, Georgia resident Michael Craig Jordan for his role in an April 2002 cross-burning. Jordans co-defendant, David Archie Morris, is awaiting trial for his alleged participation in this incident.

Jordan pled guilty to criminal civil rights violations in November 2003. He admitted to participating in the April 2002 burning of a wooden cross with the purpose of preventing a biracial African-American and Hispanic couple - as well as their two young children - from moving into the house next door.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pjus/is_/ai_833248668

Just do a search............

[TygrBright]

11. Waitaminnit, I'm confused...

Isn't Christmas the one where they celebrate Jesus' BIRTH?

Shouldn't this be under "Easter decorations?"

bewilderedly,
Bright

[Undercurrent]

12. Light -up (burning) crosses.

Holy crap!

:banghead:



They even recommend putting in on lawns.

"Light up your front yard..."

[blonndee]

13. Also, it's 5 1/2 feet tall. The picture makes it look much smaller.

Weird. That would mean it would look even more like the familiar image of a "burning cross."

[paparush]

14. Oh..we have LOTS of Christmast Crosses here in western NC. Drives me NUTS.

The cross has its own f#cking holiday..its called..um..EASTER!!!!!!!!!!

[vanderBeth]

15. Burning Cross

Maybe there is something wrong with me, because I got it right away.

[Political Tiger]

16. That's the first thing I thought! n/t

[1corona4u]

17. You saw what you wanted to see...

just another example of people reading more into things than there are. Like I said above, crosses were around a LONG, LONG, time before they were used as what YOU, and some others are suggesting. I can't believe you all are going to make something out of NOTHING.

Talk about trite, petty, shit. I am not religious at all, but god damnit, they have the right to have a fucking cross if they want it, WITHOUT assholes trying to suggest it means something else.


Shit like this really pissed me off. The shallowness of this OP, and the irrational comments suggesting that this is a 'burning cross'.

Get a life people. :mad:

[Ozma]

23. Thanks for your insults! I'm sure we who grew up with the fear

of a burning cross in our town appreciate your well-stated multicultural sensitivity and diplomacy on this issue.

[Maru Kitteh]

38. Get a grip.

I'll bet if Obama put it in his front yard with his other Christmas decorations you would think it was the most touching thing you'd ever seen. Probably move you to tears.

Sometimes a cross is just a cross. Don't be a bigot.

[RC]

24. The KKK likes lit up Crosses too.

[vanderBeth]

27. Well...

The OP asked what it resembled to me and I told him. I also told him it just might be me. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, but I said I might have some of "predisposition" to see it. I acknowledge that a lot of other people might not. I asked my mother and brother if they saw it, or was it just me. My mother did and my brother didn't. I did not, however, make any comments about the cross, the people selling it, or the people buying it. You did decide to throw a fucking hissy fit at my post, though...

[shugah]

72. well, i don't have a predisposition to see anything

but it sure looks like a burning cross to me :shrug:

[Starry Messenger]

32. Crosses are not Christmas imagery. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

39. Since when?

And since when were you put in charge of the official "Christmas imagery" regulation book?

Where do you think X-mas comes from?

Duh.

[Starry Messenger]

41. Raised Catholic and played Mary in the 8th grade nativity at Notre Dame Elementary.

"X-mas" is a media creation. The cross is a symbol of resurrection and is more commonly displayed at Easter. "Christmas" is a holiday piggy-backed from pagan traditions of renewal.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. I blame "Merry Christmas, Charlie Brown."

Fuck that Jesus and piety shit.

Christmas is about trees and presents.

[Starry Messenger]

56. Damn straight.

All being Catholic ever did for me is turn me into an atheist and an internet pedant. Now tell Santa what you want for X-mas...

[Ichingcarpenter]

42. History of the burning Cross

History

In Scotland the "fiery cross", known as the Crann Tara, was used as a declaration of war. The sight of it commanded all clan members to rally to the defense of the area. On other occasions, a small burning cross would be carried from town to town. The practice is described in the novels and poetry of Sir Walter Scott. The most recent known use there was in 1745, during the Jacobite Rising,<1> over a century before the foundation of the Klan.

Though some members of the Klan were descended from immigrants from Scotland, there is no evidence to suggest that their ancestors brought this tradition with them to America.

The Reconstruction-era Klan did not burn crosses, but Thomas Dixon's 1902–1907 trilogy of novels portrayed a romanticized version of the Reconstruction Klan that did burn crosses (see The Clansman). Dixon may have based the idea on Scott's writing, or on other literary or historical sources. The 1915 movie The Birth of a Nation was based on two of Dixon's novels. Birth of a Nation quotes Dixon's novel The Clansman as saying:

In olden times when the Chieftain of our people summoned the clan on an errand of life and death, the Fiery Cross, extinguished in sacrificial blood, was sent by swift courier from village to village… The ancient symbol of an unconquered race of men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_burning

[Goblinmonger]

51. Um, Cross = Death of Jesus

Christmas = Birth of Jesus

Do you get it now? I mean, isn't it kind of rude to use the symbol of his death at his birth? And the cross is not universal symbol for everything Christian. There are times when the cross is actually covered in the Catholic calendar. And before you ask, raised very conservative Catholic and graduated from a Catholic high school seminary.

[Obamanaut]

59. I don't think the "X" in" Xmas" is really an" X" or a cross, and it's

been used for a long, long time



<snip>“…But those factors do not take away the thoroughly Christian origin of the word "Xmas." In this instance, all of the hype and hysteria over supposedly taking Christ out of Christmas by writing "Xmas" instead of spelling out "Christmas" is both uninformed and misdirected…”<snip>

Much more at link http://www.cresourcei.org/symbols/xmasorigin.html .

It's really a Greek letter. I don't know how to type Greek, but the link explains it nicely - has nothing to do with the letter X.

I don't know why xians don't know this.

[faithfulcitizen]

70. exactly. Many Christians I know do know this too. It's the religious "leaders" that exploit it.

[1corona4u]

63. OH really??

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2008-03,GGLG:en&q=christmas+cross

[Starry Messenger]

65. This is on page 5 of your link...

http://images.google.com/images?&hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2008-03,GGLG:en&q=christmas+cross&&sa=N&start=72&ndsp=18

All others are crass commercial products. :shrug:

[1corona4u]

66. Wow...page 5....

How proud you must be....now that you *think* you've proven your point.

I stand by what I have said in this thread. Religious people are entitled to have crosses, despite what you, or anyone else think of them. Rational people just saw a cross with white lights, nothing more.

I'm done with this petty shit. Think what you fucking want.

[Starry Messenger]

68. That's fine.

I'm just saying google searches can be weird. Not really proof of anything.

[MarthaMyDear]

33. My BF and I also immediate thought, "burning cross"! Sorry, but...

...it looks like it has those "flame" bulbs on it (I have some in my living room, they kind of flicker like flames).

God, you get really worked up...calm down!

...and again, sorry, but it isn't really very "Christmas-y" to me...kind of creepy when I see these lit up crosses during Christmas time here in Central Texas. It comes off a bit hostile to me, not at all an inviting, welcoming glow.

[JuniperLea]

37. Oh bite me

Talk about a whiny, insulting post. You have a lot of nerve insulting people with this bullshit.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

53. The organization selling them is a well known hate group.

I guess you see what you want to see too.

[Ichingcarpenter]

55. I hear they have a good return policy

so she can always get her money back

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. I don't think that'll be necessary.

Even with the price of gas dropping, it just makes more sense to go electric.

[faithfulcitizen]

69. I understand your frustration, but perhaps if you were religious it would make more sense.

I am religious & I would NEVER put up a glowing yard cross during the season of Jesus's birth. He DIED on the cross. It's completely inappropriate, imo. Now, if you are a company that has done it's research and is marketing to Christians, you would realize this pretty quickly. So, it does beg the question to me as well...why? and who exactly would buy this and why? Certainly not a devote and thoughtful Christian. (imo)

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[awoke_in_2003]

35. Do you think it wise

to call other members "whores"?

[Sequoia]

19. KKK

[JNelson6563]

20. I sent them an e-mail, using their form.

I politely pointed out how much their "Christmas Cross" resembles the burning crosses used by the KKK to terrorize African Americans. Maybe everyone should drop them a line. If you do just keep it civil. Don't hand 'em even a slice of their longed-for and often imagined persecution on a platter. Plus, if the message is put rudely they've got an instant excuse to ignore it--don't give it to them.

Do let them know what it looks like to you and how you feel about it (nicely :-) ).

Julie

[1corona4u]

21. So now, people who like religious crosses are offending people?

Unfuckingreal. I hope they fucking ignore your email. Religious people have rights too, you know.

[JNelson6563]

25. Over-react much?

Actually, in my e-mail I suggested maybe if the lights were different colors it might lose that resemblence. I have no problem with people putting crosses on their lawn, in their homes, on their cars, in their ears or dragged about the streets on their shoulders like in the days of olde.

My point was that the bright white light on it made it look like a "burning" cross and that has been made into a symbol of hatred and terror. :scared:

BTW, I gather from your very strenuous response to my post that you are a Christian? If so, I must compliment you on your attitude and choice of words. The very picture of Christian charity, your place in Heaven is assured. O8)

I won't keep you any longer, I'm sure you've got to get back to the trenches in the War on Christmas.

Julie

[1corona4u]

64. I am not religious AT ALL.

I support their right to have a cross, since it was around LONG before it was used for evil. BUT, that does NOT mean that it's OK for others to insinuate they had ill intent with it, which most in this thread did right away.

It's the same shit, day after day on thia board. Everyone offened, and everyone looking for issues that DO NOT EXIST.

I'm sick of it, so I am speaking out about the petty shit on this board.

It's not a burning cross, nor was it intended to look like it. The cross was just WHITE, hence the WHITE lights.

Talk about people over reacting...

[JNelson6563]

75. Well you do a good imitation of a zealot

Your hysteria is rather like what we'd see from the hard core woo-woos.

Julie

[RC]

26. So do the reality based rest of us.

Happy Holidays :hi:

[Goblinmonger]

54. Right

because everyone on here is calling for crosses to be banned. Why don't you crawl down off that cross, Jesus needs some room.

[Obamanaut]

29. I sent them one telling them they spelled 'separate' incorrectly. nt

[JNelson6563]

30. Well done.

:toast:

[Clio the Leo]

22. I have a MAJOR problem with commercializing crosses....

.... whether or not they are illuminated with tiny light bulbs made in China by three year olds.

That's just wrong all around.

[Vektor]

31. Where are the little men in the white hoods to go with it? n/t

[JuniperLea]

36. That was my first thought too...

A few in full regalia, on horseback, a few standing by the burning cross holding torches, and you have yourself a lovely little yard scene.

Even when I was a Fundy, many years ago, I didn't like the cross symbolism at all. Why do we need to think of Jesus on the cross? Why not think of the good things? I know, I know... he gave himself... blah blah blah. He never told us to use the cross as a symbol. He never taught with hate and fear.

I'm sick of so-called Christians. I really am.

[Vektor]

43. The sad thing is...

the "bastions of conservative and Christian purity" who squawk the loudest about how very "Christian" they are, while waving their symbols and icons around are the ones least likely to actually be living by the principles of Christ.

It's the quiet ones, judging not, and doing good deeds without asking for notice or recognition who are the true Christians. The ones with the $90.00 light up crucifix lawn ornaments and the "Yes on Prop H8" signs are anything BUT Christian.

[JuniperLea]

44. Amen! Pardon the pun:)

I agree completely.

The Christians I know who actually walk the talk, don't feel the need to tell anyone they are Christians.

I wonder if some of these people with all the symbolism displayed think they are fooling God into thinking they are good people.

[Vektor]

45. I think they believe that.

They think they will get into heaven for being hateful bigots, but they are actually only fooling themselves.

[AZBlue]

46. I wrote them and asked why they were supporting the KKK.

[DesertRat]

47. Yikes

Does it come with a bonus white hood? :shrug:

[KakistocracyHater]

48. it looks like a k-k-kross

to me...

[Erin Elizabeth]

49. As a Christian, my objection to it is that it is being marketed

as a Christmas decoration. This is part and parcel of their whining about losing the Christ in Christmas and all that jazz. So they figure if they just shove a lot of crosses at the problem (and lit up ones, too!), it'll fix it. Typical.

That decoration would be far more appropriate at Easter, as others have pointed out. The religious symbolism of Christmas is Jesus' BIRTH, not the way he was killed.

But honestly people can tell the difference between twinkly clear lights and something being on fire, right?

That being said, I still hate the American Family Association. I hate that I even clicked on the link. They are vile. But this isn't much to get het up over, IMO.

[Ichingcarpenter]

57. They could have used blues, greens and reds couldn't they?

Anyone with half a sense of history knows what they are inferring.

[1corona4u]

67. Did Jesus die on a red, blue, or green cross?

I don't think so.

[Starry Messenger]

71. I thought you said you weren't religious??

And anyway, who knows? Jesus may never have existed so it's kind of an intellectual exercise anyway.

[Ichingcarpenter]

73. I'd like to leave you with one thought ...

but I'm not sure you have a place to put it.

Listen you already been deprived of any rational
excuse for defending this RIGHT WING RACIST SITE.

I'd like to see things from your point of view
but I can't seem to get my head that far up my ass
defending this obvious inane hateful christmas bullshit.

[Starry Messenger]

74. Oh man, I just took a closer look at their other products.

Yikes! Anti-gay, pro-god in church, anti-gay, anti-gay, "values-voters", teh "gay" in Hollywood...gross!! I don't know how anyone could defend them.



Happy little church on the corner this is NOT!

[jillan]

50. Please email them -

https://store.afa.net/t-contact.aspx

I asked them if they were trying to recruit the KKK, because it sure looked like it.

[CitizenPatriot]

60. before I read all of the responses, my first reaction was

Holy cripes, that's scary!

I support their right to express their religious beliefs and always will. I'm afraid this cross just looks kind of spooky and they can do better. Maybe if they added a garland or something it wouldn't look so scary.

That said, YUCK! I can't help being grossed out by decorating the cross -- a symbol of pain and agony inflicted on Jesus. Putting Christmas lights on it no matter what the reference....feels like commercializing Christ's suffering. To each their own.

For anyone who's seen "Drop Dead Gorgeous", this cross reminds me of the scene where the hideous mean girl dances with the cross singing about Jesus as she executes her plan to cause bodily harm/death to her rivals. Oh, man- I'm gonna re-watch that on Thanksgiving. That's an ode to Palin for shizzle, with the Minnesota accent and all!

[Colobo]

61. They should light up one of those crosses and stick it up their racist butt.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. A cross wrapped in Christmas lights.

[yardwork]

76. A burning cross for people's yards??!!!

That's appalling.

[slackmaster]

77. Other than that which seems most obvious, it reminds me of the United Methodist Church's logo

Also, the Mythbusters episode in which they endeavored to get a Christmas tree to ignite.