Why did Sen. Clinton divert 6.4M to her Senate campaign when her Presidential campaign is 7M in debt

[ecstatic]

The former first lady made the $6.4 million transfer from her White House campaign, which remains more than $7 million in debt, to Friends of Hillary on Aug. 28.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/24/clinton-tells-fec-she-kept-campaigning-after-conce/

I wonder how those vendors are doing? Did they have to shut down or layoff workers due to unpaid invoices? Do they have 100 million dollars to fall back on in rough times?

I am trying so hard not to be judgmental. Help me understand. Sen. Clinton was not going to be up for re-election until 2012. Why didn't she use the funds to pay her debt?

Does PE Obama know about this yet?

[gravity]

1. Can you stop making baseless accusations

PE Obama would have known about any wrong doing during the vetting process

[John Q. Citizen]

4. if the vetting is done why wait to announce it? I think it's on going, hence the wait.

[Muttocracy]

5. well, the FEC is confused too:

Precisely when Mrs. Clinton, who is expected to be Mr. Obama's secretary of state nominee, dropped out of the Democratic presidential primaries is emerging as an important legal question for FEC regulators examining the transfer of funds. Such transfers are legal if donors give their permission, and the Clinton campaign has said donors indeed authorized the move.

Still, such transfers also must take place within 60 days of when a candidate withdraws from the race, according to FEC rules. The Aug. 28 transfer date fell more than 80 days after her June 7 concession to Mr. Obama, in which she told supporters in Washington that "we must elect Barack Obama our president. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him."

Given Mrs. Clinton's concession speech in early June, the FEC has raised questions about the timing of the Aug. 28 transfer, sending a letter to the Clinton campaign last month asking for more details.

In response, Ms. Moskwa told the FEC in a letter that the campaign had complied with the 60-day rule because, despite Mrs. Clinton's endorsement of Mr. Obama in early June, there were still efforts afoot to "actively contest for" delegates.

GETTY IMAGES Mark Penn, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's former strategist, seen here speaking to reporters in Manchester, N.H., on Jan. 5, is still owed more than $5.3 million by her presidential campaign.

"The committee engaged in vigorous activity through paid staff to make sure that her delegates were selected and seated at each of these events," she wrote, adding that the delegate-selection events occurred "throughout the month" and concluded June 29.

[TahitiNut]

32. Interesting. So, Sen. Clinton now says she didn't *really* concede in her concession, ...

... as many suspected at the time -- to some vitriolic responses from her more avid supporters???

Fascinating. :eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

33. yep - there it is

[karynnj]

38. Doesn't this make her endorsement a sham?

"In response, Ms. Moskwa told the FEC in a letter that the campaign had complied with the 60-day rule because, despite Mrs. Clinton's endorsement of Mr. Obama in early June, there were still efforts afoot to "actively contest for" delegates."

I still don't understand if that money in the Senate account can be used to pay the primary debts. It couldn't be used directly, because it was general election money. When she conceded, there were articles saying she could transfer both the debts and the money to her Senate account - then effectively use it to pay it off - but there were others saying this was not legal. (I always wondered if she could have given that to the DNC or DSCC, which could then have paid off the same amount of her debt.)

I know I was surprised when she was on the list of "cash rich" Senators, who gave little to 2008 candidates. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/29/the-notoriously-cheap-dem_n_138861.html The idea that she was both "cash rich" and had huge campaign debts made my head spin.

[NoodleBoy]

2. Usually, candidates list contributions from their own bank accounts as "debt"

So it's likely the funds she transferred were donations from supporters that she didn't want to go to basically pay herself back for the money she gave to her campaign.

[dkf]

8. I don't think that money was going to go back to her as it looks like she is eating that herself.

She just wanted to protect whatever assets she could from her debt. This looks shady to me. It may not be but it should be illegal.

[karynnj]

40. I think they had to eat their own debt

From articles here, money the candidate loans to a campaign must be repaid before the official end of that election. So, it would have had to be paid off before the convention - all other dept does not have that time limit. If she would have paid herself off first though - it would have been on the final FEC report and there would have been a firestorm here. There wasn't, so it likely did not happen and she ate the loans.

[karynnj]

39. No - they were GENERAL ELECTION funds

The idea that candidates could solicit for both primary and General election funds at the same time, always struck me as strange - though I understood the value to the nominee. I think all the candidates did this. Apparently, the rule is if that race does not occur (ie they are not the nominee) they can either refund the money or request permission to transfer it to another race.

[rug]

3. She needed to buy a forest to bury the bodies.

[JVS]

6. Those vendors are to be pitied. Imagine not being paid before going into this economy.

[DURHAM D]

7. This is stupid.

The money could not be used for her primary debt. It was ear-marked for the general election because it was donors giving the second $2300. It could be returned to the donors or moved to the other fund. The donors were all asked if they wanted it back or moved to HillPac.

[dkf]

9. Then why would her continuing to campaign matter?

[karynnj]

42. Because the transfer was after 60 days

This breaks the rules, though every campaign inadvertently breaks some "rules" because there are difference in interpretation. Here, it seems they simply screwed up - maybe thinking it was 60 days after the race officially ended (when Obama got the nomination). I don't think there was anything shady. This was likely the first time this ever happened. Neither Kerry or Dean solicited money for the general election during the primaries. (Edwards, Richardson, Biden, Dodd etc - if they did, had a far smaller number of donors.) Contacting all of these people and refunding it or marking it to be moved had to be a very labor intensive project.

[wisteria]

11. So no one asked for their money back and she has documation from them all

that she was to keep the money?

[Beacool]

23. Please don't bother clarifying campaign laws to the shit stirrers

who post articles from a right wing rag like the Washington Times. This is the second thread on this issue and both quoted the WT. They make ignorant assumptions without knowing how campaigns work and what is legal and not in fundraising.

I'm starting to get sooooooooo sick of this board. Even the Freepers are not after Hillary as much as her so called fellow Democrats on this board. What a bunch of whiny, pathetic, people!!!!!!!!!!!

:grr:

[ecstatic]

25. on that note... I'll just draw my own conclusions

I wanted to try to wait before forming a negative judgment.

In the end, I trust, respect, and admire Obama; however, I'm off the SoS express for now. I PRAY my interpretation of the story is wrong and that she did not stiff hard working vendors to replenish her own coffers.

Mods, please lock. Thanks

[Beacool]

30. Let-Me-Explain-It-Slowly

She was not authorized to use the money for the primary. The money had to be either returned to the donors or, if they authorized it like I did with mine, she could transfer it to her reelection campaign. In other words, these are people who had maxed out on their donations.

[Metric System]

10. Somebody call Ken Starr!

[SIMPLYB1980]

36. LoL!

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/9634/

"A WEB PAGE DEVOTED TO RECORDING FOR POSTERITY THE EVIL DONE BY THE SANCTIMONIOUS, HYPOCRITICAL, FAR-RIGHT EXTREMIST KENNETH STARR."

[Jim Sagle]

12. One answer you left out: Nobody gives a fuck.

[ecstatic]

13. You don't care about the people who were not paid?

:shrug: I guess each of us has our own pet issues. Half my family consists of small business owners and when I think about the vendors, I think about them.

[BlooInBloo]

15. IOKIYAC.

[Jim Sagle]

17. Moonie newspapers just don't impress me as having any truth in them.

[BlooInBloo]

18. *That's* perfectly fair. However, it does smack of goalpost-moving....

It appeared to both the other guy and myself that you didn't care if it was true. And that's what we were responding to.

If you question the truth of the allegation in the first place, that's perfectly reasonable.

[musicblind]

46. No. What she is saying is that the money could not have been legally used to pay those vendors

Only money raised for primaries can be legally used to pay vendors and it is illegal to transfer GE funds to pay for primary debt. She either had to give back that GE money or transfer it to her Senate race because those donors had already maxed out what they could pay for the primaries.

If she had used that money to pay off the vendors then she would be in jail right now. What she did was the only thing she could legally do.

The reason being that no one is allowed to donate more than 2,300 to a primary race. So those that donated to the GE had already donated the max to the primary race and therefore couldn't have thier money legally used to pay off debts of Primary vendors.

Do I think that sucks? Yes. But it is the sad truth about campaign laws. Hillary had her hands tied and could NOT use that money to pay off any of the vendors without going to jail.

I hope that helps to clear it up. She is, however, still hoping to raise money to pay off the vendors but that money has to be raised (legally) from new donors. It cannot be raised from donors who have already paid the max of 2,300 for her primary race.

<3
-- David

[whistler162]

14. Any source other than the Moonie Times?

[democracy1st]

16. dude its the Wash freakin Times

:wtf:

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PresidentObama]

20. When it comes to the Clintons, some DUers do the following; Whine, bitch, repeat.

Not always in that order ;)

[Skip Intro]

21. God - babies are going without food at the behest of a an evil laughing Hillary

and Obama has no clue what he's doing, as you've clearly shown

sheesh

[Radical Activist]

24. lol

I think its pretty lame that she kept asking for donations based on having campaign debt, given this information... but your post is awesome.

[PresidentObama]

27. Skip Intro, it's amazing isn't it? Some posters here think she's as evil as Sarah Palin n/t

[EFerrari]

29. Well, if I don't pay my bills, I go homeless. But it's fine with Hillary

and Obama apparently if she walks away from millions of dollars of debt. The double standard sort of stings, especially right now when so many of us are struggling to stay out of foreclosure.

State: HRC’s ticket to debt forgiveness?

If Hillary Rodham Clinton becomes Barack Obama’s secretary of state, she could wipe away her lingering $7.6 million presidential campaign debt.

As the nation’s top diplomat, she would be barred by tradition and ethics rules from partisan political activity, including raising cash to pay off debt from her unsuccessful bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

And that could give her a powerful case to make to the Federal Election Commission about why it should forgive her campaign debt through a settlement process not unlike filing for bankruptcy.

“Her ability to raise money would be ended by going into the administration,” said former FEC chairman Michael Toner, who recently served as the top lawyer on Fred Thompson’s failed bid for the Republican presidential nomination.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15759.html

Hillary Clinton's campaign debts would wait if she joined administration

Vendors still owed money from Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign could be out of luck for years should she become secretary of state.

Clinton still had about $7.9 million in outstanding bills from her presidential campaign at the end of September, according to Federal Election Commission records.

Philippe Reines, a spokesman for Clinton, said she has since whittled it to $7.6 million, not including the $13.2 million she loaned her campaign out of her own pocket, which officials have said she does not expect to be repaid.

"Senator Clinton has said that paying off her campaign vendors is a priority for her," Reines said in a statement, "and she remains committed to that goal."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/19/america/20clinton.php

[bvar22]

51. All Hillary has to do is ....

...hit on her 18 Million supporters for .50 cents each.

No problem....money left over.

OK all you 18 Million supporters, Hillary needs you.
Time to pony up!

[FrenchieCat]

22. Did she have General Election money? Is that dealt with differently

if you don't make it to the GE?

Personally, I have no clue.

[musicblind]

47. Yes. You are correct.

My understand is that this money she transfered was the GE money she raised and could not legally spend it to pay off her primary debts.

[PBS Poll-435]

26. Washington Times!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[CreekDog]

28. she is not allowed to transfer general election money to pay for primary expenses

especially if it means that some contributors would then be over the $2300 individual limit for primary campaign donations.

[cooolandrew]

31. Yeah this story isn't very cool on her part but I'm sure they will come to some agreement on this

besides if she takes the post of SoS she can easily transfer her funds back to her vendors.

[crispini]

34. I honestly don't care if she pays that ratfucker Mark Penn or not.

I believe most of what she owes is to him. I do hope she pays the rest of her vendors.

[Marrah_G]

35. Just to give you something more to bitch about

Geezus...........

[Onlooker]

37. Poll: Why didn't the OP cite a source for claiming vendors haven't been paid?

__ A. S/he's distorting the facts because s/he's a freeper troll
__ B. S/he's distorting the facts because s/he's a sexist
__ C. S/he's distorting the facts because s/he's has some obsessional hatred towards Hillary
__ D. He's Mark Penn: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/11/hillary-clint-2.html

[Max_powers94]

41. You see this is why she should not be SOS...No drama Obama

[nichomachus]

43. The only possible reply to this is

we need to get money out of politics.

I have no idea why candidates move money around like this -- but it's because of the byzantine campaign finance laws. The whole thing is a shell game.

We need to have publicly financed campaigns -- get corporate money out of politics.

Period.

Nobody should have to raise a half a billion dollars to run for president.

[Mark E. Smith]

44. Who cares?

Buncha nonsense.

[LynneSin]

45. Well if the Washington Times writes about it then damnit, this must be true!!!!

:sarcasm:

[janx]

48. The Moonie Times-------again?!

[ProSense]

49. It was the Washington times

Hillary's $7.5 Million Problem

ABC News' Tahman Bradley Reports: Hillary Clinton continues to carry $7.5 million of debt owed to vendors from her failed presidential bid which ended in early June, her campaign finance report covering the month of October shows.

Even though the election is over, Clinton can continue to raise money for unpaid bills, as long as contributors clearly designate their contributions as being specially for retiring presidential campaign debt. There's no time limit on how long a candidate can carry debt.

The campaign retired a few hundred thousands dollars of debt in October after bringing in $774,299 last month.

Clinton lost all opportunities to get back the $13.1 million in personal money she loaned the campaign. Campaign finance law restricts the amount of time a candidate can pay back personal loans in an effort to limit candidates from self-financing campaigns. Clinton needed to pay herself back by the final day of the Democratic convention.

If Clinton accepts the position of Secretary of State, or some other post in the Obama administration, she would be barred by The Hatch Act of 1939 from soliciting and receiving political contributions. The Clinton campaign organization, however, can continue to raise money for the purpose of retiring debt even if the senator accepts an appointed position in government. Raising a small amount of money from loyal donors without help from Clinton might be doable, but raising $7.5 million without the candidate seems like a tall order.

Campaign finance law is pretty flexible in a candidate's ability to retire debt after a presidential election is over and a little innovative campaign treasury maneuvering could yield a faster way for Clinton to erase most of the remaining debt. On August 28, Clinton's Senate account received $6.4 million in contributions that were first designated for the presidential campaign for use in the general election. That money could theoretically be transferred back to the presidential campaign and used to knock out vendor debt.

The Clinton presidential campaign this week was still hunting for help with unpaid bills, sending supporters an e-mail asking for money.

Her Senate campaign committee, which had $6 million in the bank at the end of September, could agree to pay off her presidential campaign debts.

The Senate account received $6.5 million in donations from supporters who initially had given the money to finance Clinton's general-election campaign had she won the Democratic presidential nomination. They gave the money instead to her Senate campaign rather than request a refund.

link

Looks like Hillary's own supporters don't want to help pay off her debt.

The question is is the $6.5 million still there?

[L0oniX]

50. uhm she can do it because she's a millionaire?