Kerry expected to get top foreign affairs panel post

[ProSense]

Kerry expected to get top foreign affairs panel post

Posted by Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor November 19, 2008 11:10 AM
By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff

WASHINGTON -- More than three decades after he first appeared before the panel as a 27-year-old Vietnam veteran-turned-antiwar protester, Senator John F. Kerry is widely expected to be named the new chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, a position that will give him enormous influence over international relations.

The pending announcement by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, which congressional aides said could come as early as today, would elevate Kerry to the top of the foreign policy establishment and give him a major role in shaping President-elect Barack Obama's foreign policy priorities.

<...>

Along with the Judiciary and Finance Committees, Foreign Relations was one of the first three committees established, in 1816. It is responsible for vetting treaties to be ratified by the full Senate and conducting the confirmation process for presidential nominees for the Department of State, including the nation's top diplomat and all its foreign ambassadors.

Moreover, the committee oversees the State Department budget and also funds foreign aid programs, helps set arms control policy, and authorizes military training for allied nations.

Kerry's path to the chairmanship would mark the end of a particularly unique journey. It began when he testified for nearly two hours before the committee on April 22, 1971, the first Vietnam veteran to do so. Speaking on behalf of other Vietnam veterans, he spoke of the "absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do" in Southeast Asia and appealed for an end to US military involvement.

[emulatorloo]

1. WONDERFUL n/t

[Bicoastal]

2. Maybe THIS is why he won't be in the Obama White House?

I don't blame him--this is a pretty good post.

[wisteria]

7. Not as good as what he should have gotten which was SOS.

And, this is really no surprise, he was entitled to it based on seniority and Dodd turning it down for the time being.

[karynnj]

73. That's not completely true

In either case, he will be one of the people speaking foreign policy with President Obama, who will get imput from MANY people, including Joe Biden and the SoS. The one who will decide policy will be the President and I assume that in a discussion he will not treat a position differently from the chair of the SFRC committee of the SoS.

The big difference is that the SoS will be the top diplomat and can negotiate. Kerry, as chair, could negotiate only if the President officially said he could on something specific. (Kerry spoke of how under Bush 1, he was allowed to negotiate details of doing the POW/MIA work with the Vietnamese.)

But, the con s that some SoS are there for 2 or 4 years - Kerry likely has a Senate seat until he doesn't want it.

[beachmom]

81. Actually, Dodd may take that seat back in two years.

I hope not, but it is a possibility. He has a higher seniority than Kerry on SFRC, but is not taking that chairmanship because he is staying on Banking.

[karynnj]

96. True

But, then Kerry might be next to head Commerce - as Inohye is at Appropriations and Rockefeller on Intelligence. His ideas on modernizing rail, internet and even dealing with giving incentives for research on products that help global warming are all related to this committee - where he is number 3.

[beachmom]

103. Oh, that would be cool. Renaissance Kerry could chair a variety

of committees. Well, one at a time, of course.

[Barack_America]

83. I fully expect Obama to serve 2 terms...

I would be surprised if the same person stays on as SOS for the full 8 years.

[wisteria]

141. Secretary of State is better. n/t

[Mass]

3. Great news. It is an important position that needs a thoughtful person.

[blm]

4. Another reason I wanted him to STAY in the Senate. Only a few can be trusted with investigations

of global criminals like the BFEE.

[wisteria]

6. Investigations that go nowhere. n/t

[grantcart]

9. That depends entirely on the Chairman

Truman, Fullbright and Church, just to name a few had very powerful chairmanships and investigations that rocked the country.


If Kerry can't use that committee to have an effective investigation then he not only shouldn't be SOS he shouldn't be chairman of the committee.


Your comment is really a slur on Kerry who knows well the power of the committee having made a very significant impact on the committee as a returning Veteran.

[wisteria]

15. No, it depends on the leaders in the Senate. Kerry tried the investigations route before and it got

him know where. If you are expected the Bush term to be investigated and anyting down about the atrocities you are wrong. It is going to be business as usual in Washington.

[ProSense]

22. You are denegrating Kerry's entire career out of bitterness.

Kerry is one of the most accomplished Senators ever, and his impact domestically and internationally is part of the historical record.

[wisteria]

27. That no one will read or care about.

I have to wonder why some of his supporters don't want more for such a great man. More than just settling for a little spot in the Senate. Really, being a chairman is not a big deal. It just means he has been there in the Senate a long time.

[ProSense]

36. And they will if he's SoS?

The SoS is subordinate to the President. Where are the people who held that position (Albright, Kissinger, etc) in the past. You assume that SoS is somehow a path to greatness.

[wisteria]

51. There have been great SOS. He could have worked with Obama to reshape

our foreign policy. Now, he has no opportunity or path to true greatness.

[blm]

23. Nowhere except the historic record - but, it did make Kerry a TON of powerful enemies

including the Bushes and the Clintons.

[wisteria]

34. Oh and look where that got him.

So he made a ton of enemies and was unable to accomplish nothing for his time and trouble because the hirer powers would not let him. It has been the story of his life. Never getting what he really wanted to accomplish or what he really deserved.

[blm]

38. I agree with you he EARNED so much more - but the historic record IS preserved due to his diligence

and integrity. That matters - and eventually it will matter to historians.

Seriously, no one on DU has ever even been able to name one lawmaker who has effected this nation's historic record (and its ACCURACY) more positively than Kerry has over the last 35 years.

[grantcart]

40. You continue to unknowingly insult Kerry

You agree that there have been many many others who have had major Senate investigations but Kerry got bogged down with Senate leadership. If he can't get around that then he shouldn't be Chairman of the committee.

The fact is that Senate leadership has almost no control of Senate committees, unlike the house.


They control their own budgets and their own investigations.


Truman had no support from anyone else in the Senate and was even opposed by FDR and he ran the committee the way he wanted and was so successful he became VP after FDR saw that the investigations actually helped him.

No one told Church or Fullbright what to do, so why is Kerry such a pussy that he has to cave in to Senate leadership? Again the post has a long history of strong Chairmans running strong committees and strong investigations, including Frank Church's indepth investigation into the CIA.

You continue to argue that Kerry is not up to the level of these other Chairmen. I disagree and suggest that you really should stop your insults on Kerry.

[wisteria]

44. I know this is a bobby prize and we shouldn't be making it into something grand and special

because it is not. He didn't get here through merrit- he got here because Biden is VP and Dodd didn't want it for now. So, I am suppose to be thrill over this?

[Mass]

49. Getting Kerry at the head of the SFRC is a GOOD thing for this country.

Like Biden, he has always been interested in foreign policy issues and we should be thrilled that he has charge of this committee.

Your complaint is about Kerry not getting SoS. Our thrill is about the country getting somebody that will be good for the country and also probably have the hear of Obama and Biden. It is good FOR US. Whether you think is it is good for Kerry is less important.

[wisteria]

61. He will have it for two years or four years until the Dem's blow it and

we lose out again. As for the ear, I doubt it. Obama is already listening to others. Kerry has lost his spot. He had a real good chance as SOS, but not now. He will just be appeased.

[grantcart]

53. The fact is that there have been Chairman of this committee in the past

who have used this seat to great advantage. Outside of a cabinet position and Chairman of the Appropriations Committee or Majority Leader there is no other position in the Senate that has provided a greater platform for leadership.

Your answer that it is a booby prize again reveals your initial premise that he should have gotten a position because he did a favor for Obama 4 years ago.

The reason that Kerry was not President is simple - he was a highly ineffectual campaigner - despite that he still almost won.

[wisteria]

62. Name some. None come to recent memory. n/t

[karynnj]

78. Church, Fullbright

Have you heard of the Church commission? The War powers act?

Have you heard of Fullbright - not just in terms of the Fullbright scholarships - but for his hearings on Vietnam. They ennded up changing the support for the war FAR more than all the college kid protests - they even introduced a future Senator who will head the committee.

You say Kerry is a great man, and I agree - but that is because of things he has done. Many things he did never had the likelihood of advancing his career - many were things he KNEW would make it harder if his sole goal was to win politically. It is great when doing good things gets you awards and praise, but sometimes people don't get the recognition they are due. Then it may be the satisfaction in knowing that your work moved important things in the right direction. (Even there, Kerry has been recognized - he was his party's nominee for President - It is likely that no more than 5 (at the maximum) people in either party born in a decade will get that offer - and that would be a very over-represented decade. He also knows that there are people, like a Vietnam Veteran - mentioned by the Boston Herald - who sold his house and worked in Iowa and elsewhere convincing people to vote for Kerry. Look how he was treated in Hyannis, MA - http://www.johnkerry.com/multimedia/entry/barnstable_democratic_town_committee_election_eve_rally_video/ ) History will likely be far kinder to him than to many more rewarded by the media and the voters (whose votes were counted).

Obama will not turn over his foreign policy to the SoS, whether it is Kerry, HRC, or anyone else. Nor will the secretary of State be the only one he speaks to.

[ProSense]

80. Here

James William Fulbright

[wisteria]

129. Real household names. They come right to mind. LOL.n/t

[ProSense]

79. "he was a highly ineffectual campaigner" What BS! n/t

[politicasista]

87. See what I mean? "ineffectual campaigner"

Another reason.

[ProSense]

89. No, I don't. n/t

[politicasista]

94. It's just another reason

why Kerry shouldn't be SOS. Lousy, ineffectual campaigner. :sarcasm:

[blm]

121. Baloney - he'd be president today if McAuliffe's DNC secured the election process even half as much

as Dean's DNC did for 2006 and 2008.

[PVnRT]

72. He wasn't a chairman then

Chairs get to set the agenda of their committees.

[karynnj]

74. Not true

He proved that the Contras were running guns (and drugs for that matter). Without Kerry's investigation - we would likley be calling it Iran/hostage - and the Contras would be a mere footnote. The subsequent investigation, without first term Kerry, was a mess, but Kerry's work did lead to the end of that trafficing - pretty good impact for a first term Senator.

The information he gathered on BCCI was key to Morgenthau's case that led to the close of the bank. Important people went to jail.

[ellacott]

10. Because no one wanted to take them further

[wisteria]

17. yes, those who have the real control. A senate chairmanship is not real control.

Come back and talk to me about investigations getting somewhere when they make someone like Kerry Senate majority leader. All we ever conduct is investigations and write reports that accomplish nothing.

[ProSense]

16. Kerry prosecuted BCCI as a freshman Senator with

the entire establishment against him and a Republican President in the WH.

[wisteria]

24. And, where did that go and what did that gain him?

The one indictment- Oliver North had is conviction overturned. And, do people really realize who Oliver North is now? Did the investigations do him any harm. Do we have less cocaine in this county because of the investigations against the Contras? And, those investigations were long ago. Frankly, no one cares about them anymore that is why they weren't even brought up in his 2004 campaign.

[ProSense]

31. Kerry is where he is, but

have you given any thought to the reality that Kerry's service to the country, like many great leaders, isn't about him?

[wisteria]

42. A great leader is only great is he can accomplish great things for his country.

Remaining in the senate will never allow him to accomplish greater things for the good of this country. The powers that be don't want change- real change and that is why he is going to be nothing more that a senate chairman of a committee that holds hearings that get us know where. He could have made a real difference- but apparently others want to see to it that he doesn't get the chance. This is a safe position for him- he can't make any real change.

[ProSense]

45. So Kerry hasn't accomplished great things?

Then what qualifies him for SoS?


What great things have Albright, Kissinger and Rice accomplished for their country that wasn't tasked of them by a President?

[wisteria]

65. He really hasn't since the hearings in the 70"s and he keeps getting thwarted.

And, he could have been better than the group you mention. At least there are name people know and respect outside of their perspective residence. Obama was alway going to be pursuaded not to give Kerry this post, because Kerry can be a mover and a shaker. But as chairman- they can ignore him.

[karynnj]

111. Kerry did not enter the Senate until 1985

BCCI went into the 1990s

PS Obama can not only not listen to the SoS, he can ask for a resignation.

[wisteria]

131. I know, but his activites in the 70's were the last time he was recognized as

a factor that helped change history.

[blm]

32. They should - Bush's shitfest happening now has stemmed from IranContra and BCCI agenda.

And BECAUSE more of us are aware of the actual HISTORIC RECORD preserved by Kerry's investigations and reports, eventually we CAN grow the numbers of citizens fighting for open government.

[TayTay]

46. Does the withdrawal from Iraq matter?

Do you think that keeping the pressure up on the Senate and on Pres. Bush to accept a withdrawal timetable mattered? Yeah, it may not bear Sen. Kerry's name, but his constant pressure on the Senate to vote on this issue made a difference. I think there is a line from Oct '05 and June '06 to the new SOFA agreement that will pull troops back to bases in mid 2009 with an eye to getting troops out at or around the end of 2011.

I think that mattered. It mattered in the 06 elections and it helped set the stage for the 08 election.

[wisteria]

55. There will be no withdraw. Do you think the polices of the Clinton 's

and the other "hawks" are going to be undermined by some silly Kerry investigations? Nope, our policies in Iraq will remain the same and no one will listen to Kerry because he isn't important enough.

[ProSense]

57. So now you are undermining Obama?

Take a break.

[wisteria]

63. Don't you question his recent judgement? I do.

Oh, and don't tell me to take a break. If you don't want to read me, but me on ignore.

[TayTay]

64. Yes I do.

This is pending legislation for the Iraqi Parliament to take up. This is the legal and binding agreement between Iraq and the US going forward and it matters.

Sen. Kerry delivered http://www.americanprogressaction.org/events/2008/07/senkerry.html">this speech this past summer at the Center for American Progress Action Fund. John Podesta introduced the good Senator. I think what he said matters, especially since it echoes what Robert Gates, current SecDef is thinking and what a lot of the incoming Obama Admin is thinking.

Yes, it matters. It matters that Sen. Kerry is a top advisor to the new President. It matters that things like abuse of power get investigated by someone with the will and drive to get at the truth. It matters to this nation and to our collective future.

[wisteria]

70. He can deliver all the speeches he wants, no one in a leadership role is listening.

Iraq will not change much nor will our foreign policy. Not allowing Kerry to rise to SOS will see to that. Obama is already listening to others.

[ProSense]

75. "Iraq will not change much nor will our foreign policy. "

Then why do you care what Obama does?

You seem to be suggesting that if Kerry doesn't get the SoS, the world will fall apart. Will the Senate fall apart if Kerry leaves it?

Kerry is a great man, but he isn't the glue holding the world together.

[karynnj]

85. He wasn't looking for "what it would gain him"

He heard things that were illegal and wrong - and risked his career to stop them.

They weren't brought up in 2004 - because Reagan had just died and because many people never got the ill reported coverage that the CIA did turn a blind eye to drugs coming in. It would have made Kerry - who was saying that Iraq was the wrong war and not a war of last resort seen as being a messenger that bad thins were happening - THREE TIMES.

No country's people like accepting thy did wrong. Kerry's righteous protest in 1971 was well known and he had to speak on Iraq (consider many here actually think he didn't - but I know people angered that he called a war we were in wrong and unjust (which is what Catholics thing of a war that is not last resort). Do you think that they would - in an already traumatised time here that our government LET cocaine in?

It was also not just the drugs, we were fighting a covert war by proxy in Central America - and most of the country never knew. Exposing it stopped it to a very real degree. Do people know about Oliver North? I know the fact that he was convicted and then avoided jail on a technicality and was pardoned by GHWB was in the history books that all three of my kids used (they went to 3 different schools.)

[Alexander]

92. BCCI is not the Iran-Contra scandal.

"The one indictment- Oliver North had is conviction overturned. And, do people really realize who Oliver North is now? Did the investigations do him any harm. Do we have less cocaine in this county because of the investigations against the Contras? And, those investigations were long ago. Frankly, no one cares about them anymore that is why they weren't even brought up in his 2004 campaign."

You're talking about Iran Contra. BCCI is a different scandal entirely.

Please do some reading before you show your ignorance.

[blm]

120. actually, Kerry first became aware of BCCI because of his investigation into IranContra

and when you really read the other illegal operations around Iraqgate and CIA drugrunning, they all have connections to BCCI which covered a whole hell of alot of illegal matters.

[Alexander]

124. Yes but claiming Oliver North was the only BCCI casualty is false.

First of all, North was charged in the Iran-Contra scandal.

Second, many people went to jail over BCCI (like Charles Keating), not just North.

The poster was poo-poohing Kerry's BCCI work by saying the only person he took down was Oliver North.

I was just pointing out how ignorantly false that comment was, even if the two scandals are connected.

[blm]

125. Yeah....I figured they just got mixed up about that.

BTW - I also forgot to mention how Kerry's BCCI work also opened the door to the S&L scandal.

It is a serious shame that so many Americans have no clue how inter-connected all these matters are....and how they are the very foundation of Bush's shitstorm of a presidency.

[Alexander]

137. Me too. But so many are ignorant of the facts that nothing surprises me.

[Zhade]

206. BCCI - which president clinton helped cover up once in office.

Never forget that fact.

[blm]

19. They go into the HISTORIC RECORD and it's up to those who CARE about democracy to keep truth alive

for as long as it takes.

[wisteria]

58. Old dusty historians who write books that most of the public doesn't read.

Do you really think people are going to care about this stuff in years to come. Wow, we can have another Kerry was right moment.

[ProSense]

77. So where will this greatness that you seek for Kerry be written?

Also, who will read about it?

If people don't value the significant accomplishments Kerry has made to date, they will never care about his future service.

[wisteria]

130. It would be mentioned word of mouth and passed down through generations.

Not just a notible mention about the candidate that lost to Bush.

[ellacott]

8. Very good point

I was wishing he got the SOS position. I was a little disappointed. You make a great point. There are only a few that have the diligence he has exhibited with investigations.

[Sebastian Doyle]

128. I sincerely hope Kerry opens such investigations, and can bring down the Bush Crime Family

because it doesn't look like we're going to be able to depend on an Attorney General to take any action against those fucking criminal treasonous bastards. :evilfrown:

[wisteria]

5. He should have gotten SOS. This is nothing more than he was entitled to.

This chairmanship in no way gives him the real clout or ability to shape foreign policy as the SOS position would have. he doesn't gain any more respect and when you come down to it- the man who should be president is no more than 1 of fifty senators. Gee, Biden wasn't able to do anything more than talk a good talk with it. No real news here. He gets it until Dodd wants it back.

[grantcart]

11. There is no such thing as 'entitlement' for a cabinet position

[wisteria]

12. No than why is Hillary up for the positon.

And, I wasn't suggesting that. He is more than QUALIFIED for the position.

[grantcart]

29. Depends what qualifications you are looking for

If your looking for somebody who has a patrician and detached approach then Kerry would be more qualified.


If your looking for somebody who has an insatiable appetite for policy detail, and who is willing to commit every once of their energy to pursue policies that will establish a place in history then Clinton would be more qualified.


If your looking for somebody who is somewhat ineffectual in communicating the gist of what he is saying and gets bogged down in detail before he gets to communicating his central point then Kerry would be more qualified.


If you are looking for somebody that can distill the essential point and then tenaciously repeat it until everyone is now responding to your talking points and you are directing the debate then Clinton is more qualified.


While disagreeing with Clinton in the primary I would much rather have her communication, tenacity and policy wonkish obsession carrying out an Obama agenda than Kerry, or anyone else.

[karynnj]

90. This is completely untrue

If your looking for somebody who has an insatiable appetite for policy detail, and who is willing to commit every once of their energy to pursue policies that will establish a place in history then Clinton would be more qualified.

Kerry is FAR more knowlegable on foreign policy detail than HRC and he is far more eloquent than she is. I've seen HRC on Armed Services and Kerry on FRC and he is FAR FAR better - one measure -others pick up the threads he opens when they follow him and others reference things he says.

Kerry is far more the policy wonk than HRC - even compare the speeches each gave when they graduated college. One of them was a profound look at foreign policy calling for a change and a greater awareness of other cultures, the other a well written but not on the same level. Madeline Albright opted to quote Kerry's in a book she wrote a few years ago on the future of foreign policy.

[ProSense]

95. It's amazing that anyone touting Hillary would

actually try to present her as more of a policy wonk than Kerry. During the primary people took issue with her credentials on energy/environment. Her economic experience is lacking (gas tax?)

Kerry is one of the few people with a breadth of knowledge on a range of foreign and domestic issues, including energy/environment, economic policy, health care, foreign policy, nuclear non-proliferation, international trade, social security, commerce, finance, small business, science and technology.

To try to claim that Hillary has a superior grasp is wholly disingenous.

[politicasista]

126. Another example of why

Kerry shouldn't be SOS. Ignorance like from the poster above.

The reason is another excuse, HRC will carry out Obama's agenda more than Kerry. Never mind that he and Obama have similar ground on FP, but they don't want him anywhere near Obama because he'll poison him. :sarcasm:

That's why the Kerry bashers are happy. They get their wish. Obama won't have to be scared of big, bad Kerry. He'll have HRC as his security blanket. :sarcasm:

[blm]

127. BULLSHIT! Hillary hid under the covers when healthcare failed - Kerry PERSEVERED for 5 1/2 YEARS

to unravel BCCI with all of DC against him.

You bought into a FOCKING MYTH about Hillary - she has one helluva PUBLICIST, that's for sure. She NEVER COMPLETED ANYTHING and let go of matters that encountered obstacles.

I hope like hell you don't call yourself a history teacher.

You can't name ONE foreign policy issue that she LED ON in the senate. Not one. She did speak against Iraq withdrawal, though, didn't she?

Kerry is the most DETAILED person in the senate - Hillary is a middle of the roader who sided with Bush for 6 years on foreign policy because it was focking EASY.

[JI7]

143. Hillary's big thing was supposed to be health care, if she was as you describe

she would have pushed for HHS post or stayed in the Senate to push for those issues.

but instead because she isn't as powerful as she wants she is considering leaving for a different area.

[ProSense]

14. Did you think for a second that Kerry is happy where he is?

You are downplaying one of the most important roles in the Senate (a role that is further elevated with a Democratic President in the WH who shares a similar foreign policy vision as Kerry) because of your own expectations.

[wisteria]

47. I doubt it. He wouldn't of run for President otherwise and he was

hoping at some point to get a shot at the SOS. He knew the chairmanship was his. And, besides, he should want to do more, he shouldn't be happy just settling for less.

[ProSense]

56. The Presidency and the SoS are not interchangeable, but

Kerry ran for President to serve his country something he has done for decades and continues to do in the Senate. If he wanted the Presidency out of sheer desire to be President, he would have run again.

You cannot denegrate the choices he makes and his achievements because of you believe he "should want to do more."

[karynnj]

91. There is no quote you will find where hesays he wants to be SoS

He also did not know the committee was his - it wasn't until Biden won and Dodd opted not to take it.

He might also care that this is not a good time for MA.

If you are rght that he and Obama have similar ideas on foreign policy - why do you think that Obama will not still listen to him? If they don't agree on foreign policy, wouldn't you like him there speaking to Obama , but having an independent voice?

[KittyWampus]

13. I almost cried reading this. If it's true, I'll be relieved. Kerry is trustworthy. Let's hope Obama

lets Kerry go as far as possible.

[wisteria]

48. He won't be going nowhere. n/t

[KittyWampus]

50. I meant allows Kerry to dig deep and then follows up on it.

[wisteria]

52. There will be no following up. Just investigations that go nowhere. n/t

[AwakeAtLast]

18. GREAT choice!

There will be many more to come! :bounce:

:fistbump:

[Alter Ego]

20. Cool.

[beachmom]

21. Thanks for posting. I only hope that in two years he can keep that

chairmanship, and that Dodd stays on Banking longer than the next two years.

[rockymountaindem]

30. I thought Dodd announced he would retire in 2010 n/t

[beachmom]

69. No, he is running for re-election in 2010.

[EFerrari]

25. Isn't it amazing to see smart thoughtful people going into key positions?

It's going to take some getting used to.

lol

[Dr Fate]

37. All except Lieberman- oh well, cant win 'em all. n/t

n/t

[sufrommich]

26. A very powerful committee ,congratulations to Sen. Kerry.

Every day I pinch myself , after 8 years of idiocracy we're going to get smart,compassionate adults in positions of power.

[wisteria]

54. No congratuations necessary. He was next in line. n/t

[jillan]

28. I am looking forward to watching SFRC hearings with Kerry in charge.

I don't know Obama's reasoning, why he chose Hillary over Kerry, but I do know that
Kerry will be an excellent chair of the SFRC and will be alot of help to Obama.

[superduperfarleft]

33. He should've been president, but I'll take this.

Congrats to Senator Kerry.

[wisteria]

59. He was going to get it anyway. This was no real prize.n/t

[Mass]

60. What is this idea somebody needs a prize. This is such a selfish idea that it is amazing.

It is not about Clinton, Kerry, or whoever. It is about this country. If you think Kerry is that selfish he needs a prize, you should not want him as anything in this country.

[wisteria]

68. Ok, it was awarded to him through his years in the senate and because Dodd

didn't want it. Actually, it isn't a prize.

[Metric System]

35. Congratulations to him, if true.

[beachmom]

76. I am sure it is true. This is the Boston Globe, and also he was 3rd

ranking. With Biden gone, and Dodd staying at Banking, this was expected.

[Cha]

39. I hope this is an excellent fit for Kerry and

this is what he actually wants to do on the next level.

[BumRushDaShow]

41. This was Biden's chairmanship if I'm not mistaken.

Good choice! :thumbsup:

[mvd]

43. K&R

Good news

[PresidentObama]

66. Senator Kerry will an incredible job in this post, and he earned it. K&R n/t

[wisteria]

71. Yep, through all those years in the senate. n/t

[DCBob]

67. Sounds good to me.

Congrats to JK!

[politicasista]

82. Looks like the chronic Kerry haters, bashers will get their wish

He won't "embarrass" Obama by being a boring, no personality, gaffe-prone SOS. :sarcasm:

I won't insult him here, but it shows the haters will win again. :(

[ProSense]

84. Where in this thread do you see

"Kerry haters"?

[politicasista]

86. The usual ones that have been all over DU giving reasons why Kerry shouldn't be SOS

Let's see.

1. No charisma
2. Too boring
3. No personality
4. Loose cannon
5. Gaffe, error prone
6. He'll embarrass or undermine Obama, Others (i.e. HRC won't)
7. Foreign leaders don't like a loser, he "lost" in 2004
8. When it was crunch time, he caved (i.e. Ohio)
9. I'll never forgive him for that and not responding to SBV
10.He "killed" his chances by saying that he wanted the job

They have been here, they were here last week and the week before that.

[ProSense]

88. People can have their opinions, but they haven't posted them in this thread.

Why bring it up? No one needs to see a laundry list of BS.

[politicasista]

93. Because they won

and I know someone is thinking of starting a celebratory flamewar.

I am in no way degrading what Kerry will do. If the SFRC Chair has power, so be it. In some ways everyone is right, SOS is for someone that is near the end of a long, political, life in public service, so Kerry is more suited SFRC Chairman.

I have been here and other places defending Kerry from people that hate him for either 2004 or other reasons. Believe it or not, there are people out there that want him to be just another irrelevant, Democratic senator on the Hill. I saw evidence of that this summer.

Who (besides us) is going to pay attention to what he says? It's not like the media is going to wake up and smell the coffee and cover what he says or does.

They or the urban, black AA press didn't cover his DNC speech or his endorsement of Obama when all the other big name ones got more coverage and soundbites (in fact, it was treated as Boo! Yawn! "I wouldn't want his endorsement either" (what Tyra Banks said to Edwards) "I hope Obama doesn't accept it or listen to this loser!" kind of talk). Maybe not in the big mainstream media, but it was there. Really. How many of them know that had it not been for Kerry, we would not have PE Obama? Very few.

I am just for him getting some credit and respect due. He'll have some power as SFRC Chairman, but he may not have the prestige or respect like say, Gore (having ran against Bush, only to have the election stolen, then going on to win an Academy Award and Nobel Peace Prize). He'll still have to deal with (unfair) comparisons to Uncle Ted. Besides setting the agenda I don't see what changes if he becomes SFRC Chair (I still don't :shrug:).

I will stop right there because I don't want to come across as a whiny, concerned person.

[ProSense]

97. Won what? Half of that doesn't make sense, the rest is irrelevant. n/t

[politicasista]

98. The argument to why Kerry shouldn't be SOS

And the rest is not irrelevant. I heard it with my own ears. Downplay it? fine, but it's how Kerry is being remembered. It's not pretty unfortunately.

The media will never cover Kerry or what he says and does. And AA people that have no clue what he has done or did to help Obama will be left in the dark.

[ProSense]

100. "it's how Kerry is being remembered"

Nonsense. You are claiming that obscure opinions are going to define Kerry's legacy. That is utter nonsense.

That's like claiming some of the opinions here are going to define Hillary or Obama's legacy. People's actions define their legacy, and while history is defined by those who write it, I doubt any of those people whose opinions you are consumed with are writing history. If spin and obscure opinions were reality, Bush would go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents.

[politicasista]

101. The actions won't mean a thing if no one pays attention to them

or if no one reports on them. The real world aren't political junkies like we are.

His endorsement of Obama, what he has done for Obama (i.e. introducing him on a national stage)? Zero coverage in the black media (i.e. BET, TVOne, JET, EBONY, etc. and urban blogs (if it was, it was it was snark like, Yawn, He is so 2004, etc.) Never mind that other big name endorsements got more press and more coverage. DNC speech? No coverage except on C-SPAN, PBS. Only political junkies knew about all that.

[ProSense]

102. What the hell are you talking about?

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,490,000 for kerry endorses obama.

[politicasista]

105. I am talking about our media press

There were no pics, soundbites of Kerry endorsing Obama in the black press. I am talking about urban talk radio, the urban blogs, press outlets like the top AA magazines in the country. Other big name Obama endorsements (minus Gore and the Kennedys cause theirs deserved coverage) were far more covered and got positive press and pictures than Kerry's endorsements. There was more snark at Kerry's endorsement than there were towards others. I read it and it wasn't nice.

You would think our media would be glad that a big name Democrat, the 2004 Presidential nominee stepped up and endorsed the first future president of color (aka the First Black President), one of the Democrats that gave Obama his first big break to shine on a national stage, but there was no mention of that at all (the 2004 election got very little coverage, so go figure). And when the Obama issues come out, I don't look for Kerry's name to be mentioned. I know he doesn't like extra credit, but it's unfortunate that he is only thought of as someone who only wasn't Bush rather than what he accomplishes in the Senate and laying the groundwork to help Obama get elected (aka being a top Obama surrogate, and an Obama counsel, etc).

Most AA get their news from those sources mentioned above.

[ProSense]

108. That is not true

Pamela On Politics: Obama Wins A Heavyweight Endorsement

another

"urban talk radio, the urban blogs, press outlets" are niche media and serve a different purpose than tracking Kerry's career.

You want to take people through a series of irrelevant and false claims to prove a point that has no basis in fact.

[politicasista]

113. Ok, so not zero, but I don't remember reading about

it in JET, Essence or TVOne (aka Roland Martin's blog) or hearing about it on Tom Joyner, Joe Madison, Mike Baisden to name a few. In fact Faye Anderson from Black Voices Blogs wrote a very snarky piece on it by interviewing state house and senate reps from MA about Kerry and 2004.

I remember soundbites of Richardson, The Clintons, Edwards, being played over and over again, and pics of them and Obama in JET. I didn't see anything the Kerry endorsement covered at all in those magazines and that's where AA get a lot of their news besides the cable networks. It was the same with the DNC speech. The headliners were understandably B. Clinton and Biden, no mention of Kerry or his speech anywhere. In fact, there were people asking for a YouTube link because no one but PBS and C-SPAN covered it. It if was covered than you would hear ("Where was this Kerry 4 years ago?" "Had he spoken like that then, he would be in the WH," etc.) TVOne did get a soundbite, but they didn't cover the whole speech. They didn't even mention the name Kerry. (Guess cause it was toxic and no need to harm Obama :sarcasm:)

I guess we just agree to disagree here. :shrug:

[karynnj]

104. Sometimes real change is not on TV

Thing of changes for the worse - Banking Chairman Phil Gramm was able to stick in 600 page amendments into must pass bills - one leading to the deregulation that created the Enron mess, two others leading to dergulation of banks and derivatives and the swaps that were sold to "insure" them - which led to the world's financial crisis. None of the three likely made the evening news, the cable stations or evne most the print media.

The Church commission did change things after Watergate - and that was before cable news.

At this point, Kerry's power is not dependent on the media. You know he's Senator for life when a bus driver calls out to him as "John" to wish him well on elections day. http://www.johnkerry.com/multimedia/entry/senator_kerry_votes_early/

In addition, whoever is SoS may not even have more input on foreign policy. Obama is the one who will set it - and he will listen to more than just the SoS - there is Joe Biden too.

[politicasista]

107. Ok, Obama will set the FP input, goal

and Biden will help also, but I am just trying to understand what is their to gain in this position. I think that's what wisteria is trying to see also?

I am not insulting Kerry and I wish him the best, but what is there to gain? His own party didn't support in 2004, they did in 2006 because Bush was a lame duck, so who's to think they will do so now? :shrug:

And it's too bad those stories like the one at the Kerry site aren't in the media (maybe they are meant not to be?), because people have a negative view of Kerry and he is better than that.

[ProSense]

109. Kerry isn't serving for personal gain. That's a ludicrous argument.

Kerry has made significant policy contributions that no one up for this position (or even those who have held the position in the past) will ever make:

4. The Department of the Treasury is the lead U.S. Government agency for financial crimes enforcement and is responsible for administering and enforcing the Bank Secrecy Act. Treasury has been designated by Congress as the lead agency for negotiating international agreements on money-laundering cooperation (Kerry Amendment) and has chaired the U.S. delegation to the Financial Action Task Force (FATF). Created by the 1989 Economic Summit, FATF is an inter-governmental body representing more than two dozen of the world’s leading financial centers, whose purpose is to develop and promote policies to combat money laundering. Treasury receives and analyzes more than 7 million financial transaction reports annually and provides information to a number of enforcement agencies within Treasury, Justice, and other federal departments.

link

[politicasista]

112. I never said he was serving for personal gain

I was asking what is there for him to gain (i.e. issues, hearings) by being Chairman. That's why I asked pirhana the other day (thank for the answer p :)) about what did Biden accomplish when he served in this position?

SFRC Chair has power, and Kerry will be Uncle Ted's successor as the senior senator from MA, but don't count on the party giving him the same kind of respect they give Uncle Ted. I think people are hoping that HRC accepts his post under his health care legislation. They are hoping that it's her, not Kerry that Kennedy passes the torch to. They are hoping that she will be the new liberal lion or tiger of the senate. Where does that leave Kerry? Just another Democratic senator?

I am just for him getting credit and respect due. I don't know why people have a problem with that.

[karynnj]

115. If HRC takes it - t is a task force -not something permanent

That is not to diminish it, but it will not give her the powerthat Kerry who is senior on all his committees has. In addition, Kerry is by far more successful passing things - it is hard to see as even large accomplishments are often stuck into huge bills.

There will not be a new liberal lion, like Kennedy. However, Kerry is far more likely to be a powerful Senator. Neither will ever be just another Democratic Senator.

[politicasista]

123. That's interesting

And yep. There will never be a new liberal lion like Uncle Ted. And both won't to be "another Democratic senator" in the DC crowd.

Maybe I just don't see what the others are seeing right now. :shrug:

[karynnj]

114. Let me try again

This is not American Idol. Kerry will very likely not run for national office again. What he will do is use the talent and intelligence he has to be an exceptional Senator - and I think MA will keep re-electing him.

Many things that Kerry will work on will be seen only on CSPAN. That does not mean they will not be important. On foreign policy, Being in the circle means you are there to suggest a compromise between factions that could work - if it is picked up by Obama because it is a good idea - we may NEVER hear it was Kerry's idea. But, if it goes to making a world situation better, isn't that in itself important. If it does, it also will make Kerry more valued by Obama.

He already is responsible for Obama coming in with the country (and even Iraq - though their timeline is too long) and the Congress with a majority behind an approach to leave Iraq. He also was instrumental to the US getting a treaty at Bali that we signed. (One of the official administration team members said that without his night and day speaking to the other delegations before and at the Bali conference, there would be no treaty. Where did I hear this - at a SFRC hearing. It was never said in the media - but do you think it made a difference?

Kerry did want to be President - but all his expressed regrets were for not being able to do the things he could do to help the country and world. I'm sure he would have liked his name on the lists of Presidents, but he also has spoken of valuing the honor MA gave him by making him Senator. Good media would be nice, but it has much less ability to keep him from suceeding than it did when he ran for President. His accomplishments will be his accomplishments no matter what the media says.

[politicasista]

122. Maybe he and Obama want it that way

I know he won't run for president again, but he will be in the Senate. I don't like the American Idol comparison either. That was unfair to Kerry in 04 and unfair to Obama in 08. They both have a lot to offer this country.

It's nice that Kerry accomplished all those things and I am in no way downplaying or disrespecting what he has done as a senator or saying that being a senator isn't that important, but how are we going to get all that out to people who aren't as informed as we are? I am talking about people that bought into the "he accomplished nothing in the Senate" spin, when he did or has accomplished plenty like the ones you have posted.

I am not trying to be whiny are fight with fellow Kerry supporters, I am just one for getting credit and/or respect due.

[karynnj]

135. I'm totally with you on this

and it is part of why I post. The main thing that over time will change it is that Kerry just keeping doing excellent things - his peers know it - and every opportunity he has to speak - he does win some people over - even if they think he changed.

As to us - we do change opinions occasionally. Now, there are likely few people I will actually reach - but there is a whole group of us and added together we do help a bit.

[politicasista]

136. Great post as always

Me has done some ranting (LOL!)in this thread. :rant: I guess, it's just the frustration that's been building up over this. I don't think it's Obama's fault the leaks have been coming out, but it's has to be frustrating for everyone involved.

I am slowly getting there. There to the optimism that his. I do agree. One, two or three people at a time. :)

[MonteLukast]

99. Two words why Kerry won't be SOS: Ted Kennedy.

The only two words that matter.

As to why he's needed in the Senate, a lot more than out of it.

It's all about Senate seniority, and how much Massachusetts would lose by losing both their Senators at once.

[wisteria]

133. Wow, so you really think Ted Kennedy would like to be known for holding Kerry back?

Now, I don't know Kennedy personally, but I think he would tell Kerry to stay where he is at for his sake. Also, now I understand why it is so important that he remain a senator in Mass. It is all about what is good for Mass and to hell with the country and the world. Kerry should stay put so that Mass continues to get perks.

[beachmom]

106. Okay, WAY too many Kerry supporters are fighting amongst themselves

in this thread.

Can't we all just get along?

[ProSense]

110. Rodney?

:rofl:


You're right!

[karynnj]

116. Good point

[Luftmensch067]

117. I think Kerry will make an enormous difference as Chair of SFRC

He's already helped move policy forward just by being on the committee and bringing his vision to the fore, think what he'll be able to do now that he can set the agenda! In the last couple of years, he's worked with others on the committee to bring legislation along in Congress that has changed political thinking on Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria; he's chaired hearings that have resulted in real, valuable dialogue, even with a president in charge who was resolutely opposed to progress. He hasn't done this so he could be president or SoS, or even Chair. He's done it because it was the right thing for our country.

While everyone in the media and on the blogs is speculating and squabbling over who deserves which position, do you know what John Kerry is doing? He's sending out a letter from Max Cleland via his email list asking people to do the right thing in the Georgia senate race.

That's what John Kerry is about, that's what he is after -- step by step, meeting by meeting, conversation by conversation, he is going to bring justice back to our government and restore the American values of honor and reason that made us great. His mission in life is service and he will always serve our country in the way he thinks he can best contribute -- not for himself, but for the greater good.

I've watched this man head the Small Business committee and it became a new entity once he was in charge. Even with Bush in the WH and only a tiny majority in the Senate, he's managed to keep the needs of small businesses on the urgent list and to initiate and enable huge amounts of legislation that provide help for millions of small business owners, with an emphasis on helping women, minorities and veterans. Kerry as a Chair is smart, eloquent and efficient, getting more work done in any given hour-long meeting than most Chairs seem to in three.

I can't wait to see him let loose on the foreign relations problems we face. You watch -- you're going to see something amazing.

[wisteria]

201. Whatever, there is self-interest involved in your decision. n/t

[wisteria]

207. Sure, I can't wait to receive more e-mails and petitions to sign.

and, lets not forget the hearings that alway result in nothing ever getting accomplished. Sorry I don't see great things, I see more of the same waste of time and talent.

[Starry Messenger]

118. Let's hear it for Kerry love!

Kerry will do great and will shine in whatever post he is tasked. Who knows what the future holds for him.

[ProSense]

119. Great photo!

Thanks!

[Jennicut]

132. I think Kerryor Clinton would be good as SoS. That being said, Kerry will

make a very good SFRC chairman. We will miss Biden not being there, Kerry will do a really good job there too.

[globalvillage]

134. Sen. Kerry will be an amazing SFRC chair.

Bring on the hearings!

[ProSense]

138. Biden on Kerry, Sept. 2007

Sen Biden on during Iraq debate on the Senate Floor:

But before the Senator from Massachusetts leaves the floor, I wish to say to him--and I hope it will not in any way cause him any difficulty--he and I have been close friends for over 30 years, and I want him to know, and I want my colleagues to know, that much of what this amendment we are hopefully going to vote on is about is what the Senator and I have talked about for the last 4 years and that he has led on, including the international piece.

As a matter of fact, he led on it from a different perspective, as a candidate, as well. So I wish to tell him how grateful I am for his joining in this amendment. Quite frankly, it is a big deal that he is, and it adds not only credibility to the amendment in terms of our colleagues, but it adds, quite frankly, an international credibility to it because an awful lot of people around the world look to my colleague for his insights into what we do about the most critical issue facing American foreign policy today.

The truth is, in order for us to regain the kind of leadership in the world that I would argue we are lacking, we have to settle Iraq, and we cannot do it on our own. There is a need for the international community. Even if this answer is the perfect answer, it cannot be made in America any longer.

So I wish to thank my colleague and acknowledge that I have learned from him, and I wish to thank him for--and I know we use the phrase very blithely around here--his leadership. But I mean that. I wish to thank him for his leadership. He has been absolutely totally consistent on this point from before the time we actually used force in Iraq until today. So I want the record to reflect that.

[wisteria]

140. All the more reason Kerry should be SOS. Biden even learned from him.

It is a shame he is bannished to the senate.

[JI7]

152. Kerry decided to run for the Senate this year, he wasn't forced to

[wisteria]

159. What choice did he have? Better to have some job than none at all.

He needed something to fall back on. If you are trying to get me to believe he just wanted to be one of 50 senators- sorry I will never believe that. But, like everything else with Kerry, he suggests one thing, gets your hopes up, works for that end and then the rug is pulled out from under him.

[JI7]

163. you think he prefers to serve Obama who has less foreign policy experience than him?

[wisteria]

204. It was a matter of mutual respect and representing the President.

We all have to serve someone.

[wisteria]

139. You study,you work hard and you do good deeds and where do you end up?

With nothing that wasn't coming your way anyway. Seems like Kerry was born to lose out.

[ProSense]

142. Making history?

57 The proposal was delivered by Senator John Kerry at a meeting between Kofi Annan and Hun Sen during a summit of developing nations in Cuba in April 2000, and came to be known as the "Kerry proposal." Cambodian Television, Apr. 17, 2000; Cambodia Lauds Fresh US Proposal to Break Khmer Rouge Trial Deadlock, Associated Foreign Press, Phnom Penh, Apr. 17, 2000; Hun Sen Accepts UN Proposal on Trial: US Senator, Kyodo, Phnom Penh, Apr. 29, 2000.

PDF

U.N., Cambodia Near Pact on Tribunal

Senator Kerry brokered the U.N.'s Cambodian-genocide tribunal

[wisteria]

147. Wow, everyone is up on that little meeting. I 'm sure Obama considered that

before going with Clinton. File this under history no one knows about or mentions.

[JI7]

150. the point is that Kerry is in a powerful position already

in fact he is probably more powerful now than he would be as SOS in which case he would serve under the President.

[wisteria]

153. He accomplishes nothing with this position. As SOS he could be involved with

major world changing policy decisions. Sorry, but being chairman on this committee is not as important as being SOS. He can hold all the investigations he wants, he can express dismay, but he can not make any changes that make a real difference. There are good reasons why people remember the SOS and not the chairman of committees. Why do you think Clinton wants this for his wife. Why do you think Albright, and Powell are treated with respect? Henry Kissenger? Biden didn't even want it anymore and wanted to be President, bu settled for VP.

[JI7]

155. what the fuck did Powell accomplish ? what did Rice accomplish ?

Powell was respected BEFORE he became SOS.

Albright was the first woman who became SOS which is why she is remembered.

Kissinger is not respected. Kerry prevented him from heading some terrorist investigation thing because of his war criminal past.

and Biden and Kerry ran for President, not SOS . you seem to think SOS is like being President. as President and Senator Kerry doesn't serve anyone but the people. as SOS they serve the President. they don't get to do anything they want.

[wisteria]

173. He may not have accomplished anything in your estimation, but he has earned the respect

of the American public. So shoot me if I would have like to see that for Kerry- rather than being remembered as the loser to George Bush and the guy Hillary beat out for SOS.

[JI7]

175. Powell was respected BEFORE he was SOS, he LOST respect as SOS

and his lies for the Bush administration.

you are the one who has a negative view of Kerry and views him as a loser. you keep repeating what a loser he is in this thread. just because he may not be SOS which is not even that great a position compared to what Kerry has now.

[wisteria]

177. Maybe with those who blog. Go ask the public they remember him foundly

and with respect.

[JI7]

178. and this respect was from BEFORE he became SOS

he was already a well known and respected figure. part of the reason people voted for Bush was because he went around campaigning with Powell.

[Starry Messenger]

151. Well, ProSense knows about it and she posted it.

Who's to say she won't write the book about Kerry someday? Or help someone who will? I don't think history is done with Kerry, wisteria. I know it's disappointing to not see him appreciated the way we all do appreciate him.

[politicasista]

203. ...

:grouphug: :hi:

[Starry Messenger]

210. ...

:grouphug:

We Kerry folk will keep the flame alive. No way will this great man be forgotten!

[politicasista]

211. Thank you

I agree. :)

And another.

:grouphug:

[JI7]

144. you sound like Sarah Palin

[wisteria]

149. Really, I didn't follow her that closely. n/t

[beachmom]

157. Jonathon Alter just said on KO tonight that Obama would be more likely

to get advice on foreign affairs from John Kerry on Capitol Hill than from a Secretary of State Clinton. The idea that if Kerry is not in Obama's cabinet that he won't be hugely influential is just not true. Kerry is highly respected in Washington on foreign affairs as well as internationally.

[wisteria]

161. If Obama would go to him why isn't he going to be SOS?

And, why would he do that with Biden as VP. This is just BS. Besides Alter is an ass.

[JI7]

165. because Kerry doesn't want to be SOS

[wisteria]

168. Oh, and you know that for a fact? Who did you get that off of? n/t

[JI7]

170. i got it from Kerry himself who said he looks forward to being Chairman of SFRC

and he has said a lot more about looking forward to doing things in the Senate than he has about SOS.

[wisteria]

181. Oh sure, what else could he say? Of course this postion is better than nothing or just being

a senator without a chairmanship. That does not mean he would not have accepted the SOS with certain conditions.

[JI7]

184. and you don't know that but since you view Kerry as a loser

what does it matter.

[wisteria]

200. I suppose I have a lot of time and money invested and I usually am a good

judge of character and accomplishment. It disappoints me to see him settle and others go along with it because it servers their own self-interests. Kerry may be a good man, but he isn't a saint and he isn't without ambition.

[ProSense]

172. As President Obama defines a U.S foreign policy vision,

but he doesn't write the laws of the land. That is the Senate's responsibility. He can sign or veto laws, but the laws are written by Congress.

The SoS serves the President. In that role, the person doesn't set policy or write laws. It's a prestigious position, but it is primarily a position for carrying out diplomacy and negotiations on behalf of the President. The SoS serves the President.

It's highly likely that the SoS will be performing his/her duties on behalf of the President and adhering to laws written by Senator Kerry.



edited for clarity.

[karynnj]

158. Come on

Born to lose?

Kerry himself said in 2004, that he had always thought every day was extra after he survived Vietnam.
He actualy has had and has a pretty good life.

He is married to an incredible woman he loves who loves him. (and they have a very comfortable life)
His daughters and stepsons respect and love him.
He is extremely healthy and enthusiatic.
He knows who he is and seems very comfortable that he has lived for to his own high standards of integrity.
He is a 5th term Senator just re-elected with 66% of the vote.
He is very well positioned Senators - in the top 10
He earned the nomination of his for President of his party.
He has at least hundreds of life long friends
He has earned the respect of most of his peers
He has changed history for the better, both in 1971 and many times since.

Looking at that list, how many people are LESS easily defined as losers. Other than Obama is there anyone else you would thing was less a loser.

[wisteria]

164. Some things on this list aren't much at all. Forget the Senate races

except for Weld. He has the respect of his peers? Yes, Reid takes him seriously and so does Clinton. He gets close to the gold ring, but never is able to grasp on to it. It is like being a bridesmaid and never a bride.
Sure, we should all be thrilled that those who are deserving always get the short end of the stick.

[JI7]

167. maybe he doesn't give a shit what Reid and Clinton think about him

just because you think the most important thing is being loved by Reid and Clinton doesn't mean Kerry and others see it the same way.

[wisteria]

171. I don't care at all what Reid thinks about him, but he controls the senate Dems

and he decides if Kerry gets what he wants. As for the Clinton's they roll him every chance they get and they come out on top.

[JI7]

174. Hillary certainly didn't come out on top on health care

which is why she is considering being SOS even though health care is her big thing. someone who was really committed to the issues like Kerry is would have stayed and worked hard to get things done rather than leave beccause they aren't getting love from someone like Reid.

[wisteria]

176. That is another reason why he would be better as SOS.

But, if the point is to really make a difference it won't happen with Kerry with Reid there and it is questionable if it will with someone else.
Face it, Kerry is going to fade away and become yesterday's news. This was his last shot at something big. His pull and recognition on the blogs is already fading and he will have less influence. Just look at the forum. Who really is left? Just mostly Mass people. No one else is being pulled in or moved by Kerry anymore.His influence is diminished. Doesn't that make you sad? No more of Kerry's visions.

[JI7]

179. you really do view this as being like American Idol

i think that's sad.

[wisteria]

185. It's the name and respect that gets the job done. I didn't make the rules.

I know too many people who are more deserving, but passed over because they aren't well liked or popular. Power comes from recognition and then from respect.

[JI7]

188. Powell's name and respect did not help him accomplish anything positive

just look at the mess in our foreign policy and the wars.

[ProSense]

183. You are extremely mistaken

recent blog post

Nothing anyone says to you is going to sink in. You are letting your disappointment cloud your judgment.

[wisteria]

199. My judgment is fine. It is everyone else whom assumes

Kerry should always settle for less and doesn't want more. Yes, I never take anything for granted that doesn't mean that I should have to accept others ideas of who Kerry really is. I think those who don't try to push him and think of their own self interest first, do Kerry a great disservice. He is more complex and better than what they would have him settle for.

[karynnj]

212. "Some things aren't much?"

I beg to differ with that. They are ALL extremely important - in terms of what real success is.

You seem to think that only being President or SoS is success. Look at the last 40 years, is there one President who did as much good as Ted Kennedy? How about one Secretary of State?

The fact is that being a 5 term Senator, in the position that Kerry is in because of his knowledge and skills - in addition to his committee assignments is a very powerful, very good job. Did I want him to be President, Of course, but he is clearly still fighting for things he believes in. Also having seen him at the Barnstable rally, when he voted, and at the victory rally - he looks extremely enthusiastic and happy. (I honestly think you are more unhappy than he is on SoS. In fact, one thought I had was that as SoS, he wouldn't be able to do the rallies etc and, especially at Barnstable, he looked like he loves it. Not to mention, he might be needed when MA's heart is broken)

[politicasista]

213. Will concede and agree that all of that is important

I am in TN (aka Depressing Red :(, but Blue County :)), where people don't complain much about Sens Alexander or Corker not doing much for the state. They may disagree with things, but they seem afraid of change (Obama only carried 6 out of the 95 counties). I would be cool with Kennedy and Kerry as my Sens. It must have been nice to see the support on the ground, we don't hear a lot of that, but that's ok. :)

To answer your question, there isn't one president that accomplished much as Uncle Ted. (Some may argue that BC did because he was a two term president, first since FDR), but Uncle Ted is the reason that people can or could afford to go to college, lobbying for health care, and so on.

One day, I will hope that the junior senator will have that kind of prestige (ok, there won't be another lion like Uncle Ted :)), like him or Gore. Though Gore was VP, he did run against Bush, only to have the election stolen from him, and went on to win credit and awards like the Nobel Peace Prize and an Oscar for An Inconvenient Truth. True, Kerry does have an impressive environmental record, but I haven't seen him get any kind of prestige or acclaim (i.e. being on Oprah) for the environment or for the book TMOE.

It seems right now, there is more respect for Gore right now then there is for Kerry, which is unfortunate because the senator exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in history, only to be battered, rather than lauded for it.

I am not bitter or mad he isn't SOS or in Obama's cabinet (though it would have been nice). He is where he needs to be, so I can't fault him for that.

I wish him good luck and much success. :patriot:





edit for fact

[karynnj]

214. Thanks for a well reasoned response

I do think that Gore has succeeded on all these levels as did Kerry. I personally think Kennedy did more than Clinton. He had 2 terms, but when you look at what he used them for - Kennedy beats him. the best thing he did was S-CHIP that I give far more of the credit to Kennedy for - he led the design of it and got it passed - Clinton only grudgingly signed it.

But, that is not why I wouldn't count him here. I think a large source of the Clinton hunger that more than anything caused them to misstep was a keen desire for a second chance - to enhance their reputation. This suggests that he is not satisfied with his long term reputation - though he was clearly one of the most loved Democrats (far more than Kerry). Also, I think these are important and he may fail on these:

"He is extremely healthy and enthusiatic.
He knows who he is and seems very comfortable that he has lived according to his own high standards of integrity."

Now, this test IS unfair - it was written looking at Kerry and listing for Wisteria the many blessings he had - then I tacked on the comment relative to others. My point was that there is no reason to feel that disappointed for him - especially as we don't what he really wanted.

[politicasista]

215. Thanks

Too late to edit the "more respect for Gore" comment. I wanted to say more "love" cause respect sounds harsh and I didn't want anyone to think I am knocking Kerry because I like them both.

I agree that Uncle Ted did more than BC. Only thing I remember about the early Clinton years is the GOP mocking health care as "Hillary Care," him being unable to get his cabinet together on the same page, and the other scandals around 93-96. Yep. Kennedy should get more credit and respect due here.

In some ways politics is like music (well, cause there is politics involved in the music business). This disappointment can be compared to feeling like a popular artist/singer gets all the attention (mostly overexposed) while the better talented one either can't catch a break or gets overlooked 90% of the time. I think that's what Wisteria is feeling like is happening with Kerry.

And the third paragraph sounds like the senator. :)

[karynnj]

216. The comparison to music really works well

My daughters, the oldest of whom is 23, sometimes preferred niche artists rather the then current favorites. The internet made it better than it would have been when I was a kid - but they did sometimes resent all the time wasted (in their opinion) on groups like the Backstreet Boys.

In my case I was lucky - my favorite from when I was 13 through college was The Beatles. Sort of like preferring Obama now.

[Flute]

145. I doubt Kerry's judgment

He voted for the war in Iraq.

[ProSense]

146. Kerry has been the

leading voice of opposition on the war

Only 14 Senator voted for his bill setting a deadline to withdraw from Iraq.

[karynnj]

148. He voted to give Bush the authority after Bush made promises

on what he would do. When Bush deviated from that, Kerry spoke out saying on January 23, 2003 (before the invasion) at Georgetown University, not to rush to war and that it was not the last resort. He also said on a December 2002 MTP that he did not support Bush invading as there were more diplomatic things to do. (HRC and others did not speak againt the war then.)

Kerry also led in 2006 on an exit plan (Kerry/Feingold)- that the other Democrats - including Obama moved to 6 or so months later.

[politicasista]

195. delete n/t

He gone.

[ProSense]

196. No,

all gone

[politicasista]

197. Yep. Went back and edit

That was fast.

[wisteria]

154. Poor Kerry, if he didn't have bad luck, he wouldn't have any luck at all.

As far as I am concerned we are off to a bad start.

[JI7]

156. fucking pathetic , Kerry ran for the Senate THIS YEAR

and he won.

[wisteria]

160. Oh, please. What a challange that was.

We could have a thread on that alone. I don't think you really want to go there. He was a shoe-in.

[JI7]

162. if he didn't want to be in the Senate he wouldn't have ran

[wisteria]

166. The senate was better than noting. It was a good consolation prize.

If nothing else came up. Actually, maybe his best bet is to get out of the senate- try something outside of politics to really make a difference that will get him some great recognition- like Gore. The though of Kerry just crowning old in the senate is a terrible though.

[JI7]

169. just because you have low views of the Senate doesn't mean Kerry does

if he did he wouldn't have stayed there all these years. even before running for PResident he would have ran for Governor or something else.

[wisteria]

180. I can't argue that point, but he wanted out at one time- he wanted to be President.

Now, look what he has had to settle for. All the while those less qualified and hardworking get what they want. I signed on to Kerry because I saw a great man who could accomplish great things. he is going backwards instead of forward.

[JI7]

182. yes, he wanted to be President not sec of state

being President is more similar to being Senator in that they are elected by the people and work on a variety of issues. SOS works under the President in one area.

Kerry has already accomplished great things. but you seen to think it's not important unless you are worshipped by the whores.

[wisteria]

186. He was pushing for SOS as an important role he could do great things with.

It wasn't president, but he could mold the positon and make a mark on history and foreign policy that would be remembered.

[JI7]

187. he was NEVER pushing for SOS , that was put out by the ones who hate him

[wisteria]

189. I am aware of information that he was thinking about this as early as Jan. 07.

But, then like is his history he is ellusive and dare I say it- waivers.

[JI7]

190. only the crowd who views this as a popularity contest like American Idol

he has never let me down.

[wisteria]

191. I guess you must have lower expectations. n/

[JI7]

192. if you consider low expectations to be what someone actually does

as opposed to media whores kissing their ass which is what you are so hung up on.

[wisteria]

193. Obama wouldn't be where he is without the media. Say what you will

about them, but they have the power to make or break people. Just look who is getting ahead and who is not. If it takes Kerry to be SOS to get the media to show him some respect and treat him properly, them I see nothing wrong with that. And, he could accomplish a lot of good in the world.

[karynnj]

219. You were? Did he tell you that?

Can you provide a link to a direct quote?

[politicasista]

194. Yep. And many DUers bought into it n/t

[wisteria]

198. Pushing was too strong a word, He was giving consideration to what could be accomplished with this

position.

[karynnj]

217. Kerry may have actually done as much to fight global warming as Gore

in the last year. Kerry was the entire Congressional delegation to Bali - Ambassador Stuart Eizenstat (around 4 minutes in) said this about Kerry's work leading up to the summit and at the summit:

"The fact that we had a treaty was significantly due to the fact that Senator Kerry was there. He was a virtual part of our negotiating team, without his day and night support and lobbying of the EU. we would not have gotten a treaty." http://www.kerryvision.net/2008/04/in_defense_of_treehuggers.html

That is real - and the fact that he got little recognition for it, does not mean that all the key players don't know this. This and other things was why Gore made an ad for Kerry, saying he was the best Senator for the environment. In this and other things, he is trying to help save the world. The best reward is internal - knowing you did a great job.

If thst is the type of thing he can do as a Senator, it is no small thing to be a Senator.

[Zhade]

202. That would be pretty great.

NT!

[wisteria]

205. Oh sure, as opposed to him serving as the Chairman of something else. n/t

[wisteria]

208. oh wow, a position that Biden was happy to abandon and Dodd didn't want.

Gee, this is something to get real excited about.

[BREMPRO]

209. This is good. Obama needs to retain senior leadership in the Senate

He's already tapped Biden and now ?maybe? Clinton?, so Kerry will be a great ally in the Senate and this is a good role for him.
I'll bet this is his choice, he can right his own ticket for the early support and gravitas he brought to the Obama campaign.

[karynnj]

218. Clinton is not Senior leadship in the Senate

That is part of the problem - she has 8 yrs of seniority.

[FrenchieCat]

220. Congratulations to John Kerry!

He certainly earned it...and then some! :thumbsup: