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Will Obama Supporters Be Added to the List of People Excommunicated from the Catholic Church?

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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:05 PM
Original message
Will Obama Supporters Be Added to the List of People Excommunicated from the Catholic Church?
The official list can be accessed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_excommunicated_by_the_Roman_Catholic_Church

The 21 Century list isn't very long, but if the Church is ready to deny communion to Catholic Obama supporters then essentially how far away are they from excommunicating them?

I guess the list could be getting a hell of a lot longer very soon.
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votetastic Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. what, and decimate their numbers even more?
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Getting excommunicated form the Catholic Church seems like a great honor.
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Maccagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Church won't have the opportunity to excommunicate me
I'll walk first.
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Aren't All Democrats Excommunicated Or About To Be So?
I thought it is a plank of Catholic doctrine to vote Republican, and hate the poor regardles of what the bible says.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. You thought wrong. The official statement about the election -- as opposed
to various right-wing Catholic groups -- allowed for Catholics to vote for Obama on the basis of his total record, despite his position on abortion.
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I Thought Some Catholic Bishops Were Issuing Fatwas Barring Communion
Edited on Fri Nov-14-08 06:25 PM by Median Democrat
For voters who supported Obama. This reminds me of Sarah Palin's statement that women who didn't support her would go to hell:

Palin: "There's a place in Hell reserved for women who don't support other women."
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I haven't heard of any, but if any did they were going against the
official statement issued by the Bishops conference.
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Here is The Priest
Voting for Obama is a mortal sin according to this Priest. The Catholic Church might as well distribute sample ballots telling everyone how they should vote.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/11/priest_calls_vote_for_obama_a.html
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. That priest is a renegade who is ignoring the recent statement resulting
Edited on Fri Nov-14-08 07:20 PM by pnwmom
from the Bishops' conference.

http://ncrcafe.org/node/2281

There also seemed precious little appetite in Baltimore for revisiting the question of communion bans. On the margins of the meeting, for example, Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington, D.C., told reporters he would not seek to deny communion to Vice-President-elect Joseph Biden after he becomes the country's first Catholic vice-president in January.

For a rough indication of the temper of the conference, consider the evolution of the language on Catholic politicians in the statement issued on Wednesday.

Before the conference opened, the Committee on Pro-Life Activities prepared a draft statement which included fairly strong language to the effect that Catholics who do not follow church teaching on abortion should not receive communion. By Tuesday, when George led the bishops in a public discussion, the language had been softened in his talking points to expressing a desire that "all Catholics in public life be fully committed to the common good," and that communion in the church "may always be complete."

By the time the statement actually appeared on Wednesday, the language was even more diplomatic: The bishops, it said, "want to thank all those in politics who work with good will to protect the lives of the most vulnerable among us. Those in public life do so, sometimes, at the cost of great sacrifice to themselves and their families; and we are grateful. We express again our great desire to work with all those who cherish the common good of our nation. The common good is not the sum total of individual desires and interests; it is achieved in the working out of a common life based upon good reason and good will for all."

The way things were left obviously chafed with some bishops, who believe the time has come for a more muscular approach.

SNIP

The bottom line on Baltimore, therefore, seems that the bishops set a course unlikely to fully satisfy either pole in Catholic debate -- far too explicit for the "common ground" constituency, yet not tough enough for the most militant pro-lifers.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe it's time that the Church had a split.
Not like it hasn't happened before. :shrug:
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. I Think I Will Attend Church This Week
and drop a note in the collection plate noting that a donation to the invalidate prop 8 campaign has been made in the Church's name.
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Excellent idea
I'm thinking of attending mass decked out in Obama gear and attempting to take communion.

I'll make sure that I attempt to take it from the priest himself, not a parishioner.

I dare him to deny me.

If so, then I want him to file formal papers for the church to excommunicate me.

I feel that if a parishioner is formally denied communion then the church might as well excommunicate the person.

Make it official.
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GreenInNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Catholic Priest Faces Excommunication
From the NY Times:

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
The Vatican has informed a Roman Catholic priest in the United States that he will be excommunicated next week for participating in a ceremony it considers illicit and invalid: the ordination of a woman as a priest.

The priest, the Rev. Roy Bourgeois, 69, has been a member of the Maryknoll religious order for 36 years. He said he was anguished at the thought of excommunication, but could not disavow his actions.

“Who are we as men to say that we are called by God to the ministry of priesthood, but women are not? That our call is valid, but theirs is not?” he said in an interview. “We profess as Catholics that the invitation to the priesthood comes from God, and it seems to me that we are tampering with the sacred.”

Father Bourgeois served as a missionary in Bolivia and El Salvador, and concerned by what he witnessed, returned to the United States and became nationally known as a peace advocate.

He lives in an apartment outside the gates of Fort Benning, Ga., where he leads an annual protest against the United States Army School of the Americas, which trains military personnel from Latin America. Last year, 17,000 people joined the protest.

In August, Father Bourgeois joined a ceremony in a Unitarian Universalist church in Lexington, Ky., in which a friend from the peace movement, Janice Sevre-Duszynska, claimed ordination as a Roman Catholic priest. Father Bourgeois gave the homily and laid hands on her.

He had known that excommunication was possible but said he thought it unlikely. His order summoned him to headquarters and gave him a warning but did not discipline him.

Then he received a letter dated Oct. 21 from the Vatican’s doctrinal watchdog, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, warning that if he did not recant, in writing, he would be excommunicated within 30 days.

“When I got the actual letter, I had to sit down,” he said. “I felt nauseous. I thought, this is serious stuff. The first thought that came to mind was, How am I going to explain this to my dad and my family?”

After weeks of prayer, Father Bourgeois informed the Vatican that he would not repent.

Ms. Sevre-Duszynska, a veteran agitator for women’s ordination, is the 35th American woman to claim ordination from an increasingly vocal group known as Roman Catholic Womenpriests.

She grew up in a Polish Catholic community in Milwaukee and grew enamored of a priest’s work after her mother arranged for her to help a nun clean the priest’s sacristy every week.

“I have felt called to the priesthood since my childhood,” Ms. Sevre-Duszynska said.

The Womenpriests group has been holding its own ordinations of women as priests, deacons and even bishops across North America and Europe, starting in 2002 with a ceremony on a boat on the Danube River. Some of the ceremonies in Europe were done in secret, so even Womenpriest leaders say they do not have a complete count.

The Vatican and local bishops have notified the women that they are automatically excommunicated. But Father Bourgeois is the first priest to face discipline for his involvement.

Leaders of the Womenpriests say that three bishops in good standing have performed ordinations in Europe. But they have pledged not to identify the bishops until their deaths.

Pope John Paul II reiterated the church’s position in 1994 in an apostolic letter which said that because Jesus chose only male apostles, “the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women.”

A Roman Catholic nun who worked for the Archdiocese of St. Louis was removed from her position by her archbishop this year, and banned from receiving sacraments, after she attended a women’s ordination ceremony.

Father Bourgeois said he would try to appeal the Vatican’s decision. Excommunication, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is “the most severe ecclesiastical penalty.” The person is forbidden to receive or administer sacraments.

On a practical level, Father Bourgeois also faces the loss of his benefits and the $1,000 he receives monthly for living expenses. But, he said, “if I am without health care, I will be joining millions of people in the U.S. who don’t have health care.”

He has been at peace, he said, since he drove to his hometown in Louisiana and told his 95-year-old father, his 3 siblings and 13 nieces and nephews.

His father cried a little, Father Bourgeois recalled, then said: “God brought Roy back from the war in Vietnam, from his mission work in Bolivia and El Salvador, and God’s going to take care of him now. I support Roy.”

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Nary a mention of Obama.
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. I wonder ...
How long before that priest's name appears on the official excommunication list?
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GreenInNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Catholic Church wouldn't have me
Edited on Fri Nov-14-08 07:08 PM by GreenInNC
I am a second husband and the priest who lead my RCIA classes would not let me be baptized until my wife's annulment from her first husband was complete. I had been in the classes for almost a year and he brings this up two weeks before the ceremony. I told him where he could put his annulment and walked out right in the middle of class.
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Atta Boy!
Edited on Fri Nov-14-08 07:01 PM by Khaotic
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. If so, sign me up plz.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. Where did you read that the Church is ready to deny communion
to Catholic Obama supporters?

Anti-Catholic threads like this are offensive to the many Catholics on DU. I would think people here wouldn't want to offend their allies, of whatever faith.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. One dumbass priest in SC did it despite the Pope approving of the election (nt)
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Dude
There was a priest in Fairfield, VA that ran a parishioner off because her vehicle had Obama written on it, and there was a priest in S.C. that told his parish that anyone who voted for Obama shouldn't seek communion until they have gone to confession and asked for forgiveness for their actions.

Look it up.

Both instances took place this week.

The DU threads are:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3600064

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4459676

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. So a couple of random priests out of thousands in the US alone.
And they are not following the policy just approved at the Bishops' meeting.
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Watch this
http://cbs13.com/local/Woman.Chased.Out.2.863909.html

And see what the growing sentiment that's leaching out of the parishes.

If that's the lingo taking place at my parish I don't think I can hope my tongue.

This shit is going to bring people to blows.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. The MSM is sensationalizing, as always. Here's a more informative piece
from the National Catholic reporter.

http://ncrcafe.org/node/2281

There also seemed precious little appetite in Baltimore for revisiting the question of communion bans. On the margins of the meeting, for example, Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington, D.C., told reporters he would not seek to deny communion to Vice-President-elect Joseph Biden after he becomes the country's first Catholic vice-president in January.

For a rough indication of the temper of the conference, consider the evolution of the language on Catholic politicians in the statement issued on Wednesday.

Before the conference opened, the Committee on Pro-Life Activities prepared a draft statement which included fairly strong language to the effect that Catholics who do not follow church teaching on abortion should not receive communion. By Tuesday, when George led the bishops in a public discussion, the language had been softened in his talking points to expressing a desire that "all Catholics in public life be fully committed to the common good," and that communion in the church "may always be complete."

By the time the statement actually appeared on Wednesday, the language was even more diplomatic: The bishops, it said, "want to thank all those in politics who work with good will to protect the lives of the most vulnerable among us. Those in public life do so, sometimes, at the cost of great sacrifice to themselves and their families; and we are grateful. We express again our great desire to work with all those who cherish the common good of our nation. The common good is not the sum total of individual desires and interests; it is achieved in the working out of a common life based upon good reason and good will for all."

The way things were left obviously chafed with some bishops, who believe the time has come for a more muscular approach.

SNIP

The bottom line on Baltimore, therefore, seems that the bishops set a course unlikely to fully satisfy either pole in Catholic debate -- far too explicit for the "common ground" constituency, yet not tough enough for the most militant pro-lifers.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
25. Talk about making the "short list"..
surely that can't be every ex-comm Catholic on that list.. Where's Martin Luther? What about all the thousands of "heretics" they burned during the Middle Ages and all those they killed during the Inquisition?

:shrug:
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