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Lawsuits still pending over Florida primary...one against DNC, one now filed against state party.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 06:21 PM
Original message
Lawsuits still pending over Florida primary...one against DNC, one now filed against state party.
You would think it would be over, but it's not. There have been several lawsuits againt the DNC over the early primary which the Florida Democrats supported against national party rules. Bill Nelson filed one and lost, State Senate leader, Steve Geller filed one and lost. One is still pending, more on that below.

Today a Florida delegate filed a suit against the state party for interfering in the party primary process.

Ausman to pursue lawsuit against state over primaries

A bitter fight over moving up Florida's presidential primary lives on in federal court, even as President-elect Barack Obama shifts his transition into high gear.

U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle agreed Monday to allow Democratic national committeeman Jon Ausman to continue his federal lawsuit against the state for what he claims is its unconstitutional meddling in the party primary process.

Neither the Democratic National Committee nor the Republican National Committee made good on their threats earlier this year to completely strip Florida convention delegates as punishment for the Legislature's decision to move the primary from March to Jan. 29 — in violation of party rules. But that doesn't matter, Ausman's attorney argued in a status conference for the suit.

"Nothing has changed," said New York constitutional attorney, Roger Bernstein. "The election, of course, made no difference. The delegate problem is as profound as ever."


The other lawsuit still pending is against the DNC for discriminating against white people in Florida by have two early states with minorities go ahead of them. Yeh, I know. The ones filing it even chuckled at it.

The last thing I have seen on this one was September 26. All the papers were filed.

And so the Florida primary lawsuit continues against the DNC.

South Carolina and Nevada were allowed to hold their primaries before February 5th because the high percentage of blacks and Hispanics in those states helped compensate for the pasty complexion of Iowa and New Hampshire.

That's the basis for an amended legal filing planned by Tampa Democratic activist, Victor Dimaio and attorney Michael Steinberg who are suing to have Florida's entire Democratic delegation seated at the National Convention in Denver this summer. DiMaio's original lawsuit claimed the DNC's punishment of Florida violated the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, but that suit was kicked back by the federal appeals court in Atlanta. Steinberg had a brainstorm when he read discovery papers in a similar lawsuit filed by Senator Bill Nelson that showed the DNC put South Carolina and Nevada's primary dates ahead of 46 other states to give minorities more of a voice in the nominating process. Since the DNC receives federal money to hold their convention, the party is subject to federal civil rights law.

What an interesting turn of the worm. Sometime next week, we may have democrats suing democrats for carrying out a very democratic policy of advancing minorities. Steinberg and DiMaio acknowledge with a grin that their reverse racism accusation will ruffle feathers, but hope the conservative judiciary will be delighted to strike a blow against affirmative action and rule in their favor. Their only objective, they claim, is to see all of Florida's delegates seated based on the January 31st primary election.


Florida went blue for Obama, but that was about the extent of our real success here. And the recriminations and tension continue.

Tiring, and unnecessary.



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Diamonique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think the DNC should be sued over this. They didn't do anything but follow their own rules.
But I'm all for suing the state party.

I'm a Michigander, and I'm still totally PO'd with my state party for what they did.

The state parties screwed us out of our primary votes, and they should be held accountable.

Just my opinion.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I agree.
It divided our state Democrats horribly. Nothing has changed either.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ausman can jump up Florida's arse...
The States are entitled to determine the manner in which elections will be held. This is a STATE matter not a Federal one unless he can demonstrate a Voting Rights Act or 14th Amendment connection. Otherwise he is just being a nuisance and I hope the courts tell him as much.

We ought to have ONE SINGLE NATIONAL PRIMARY DAY and put an end to all of this horse race crap and make EVERYONE's vote count equally!


Doug D.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No, not true.
The national party controls the delegate selection.

Updated list of my journal postings about the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1906

Florida Democrats invade Georgia
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1905

Dean told not to plan a vacation in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1902

Court decision on March 17 could determine who Democratic nominee is.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1897

Florida Democrats thought they would only lose "half" the delegates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1903

Dean says FL and MI would not negotiate with the DNC...took it public
instead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1888

Florida, Michigan and the Jackasses That Over-reached
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1890

Tampa op ed: "Arrogance Cost Florida Chance To Influence Election"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1875

Terry McAuliffe wants to change horses in the middle of the stream.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1882

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary
bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Jeremy Ring (D-FL) said "relevance is more important than "partying" in
Denver.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1836

The worst part is that this very day FL Dems still shift blame....
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1870

Is Hillary's campaign being run as a "shadow DNC" for her benefit?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1883

More Florida shenanigans and more insults to Dean from that state.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1858

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's
rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1827

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a
"voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the
DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to
let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local
email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in
chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument
here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone
call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to
Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had
to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I
must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary
that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get
near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527




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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The National Party can't tell Florida how it has to write its law.
Sorry but no dice.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, they can.
I am not going to argue with you as you are ignoring facts. Here is one more link, read it, you can keep arguing....but I am not going to play along.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1932

DU is getting to be a hostile place. If you think you are right, then go ahead and think so.

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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. well, he can think all he wants.
But i doubt he has the horse power to figure out that you are exactly right.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. sorry, you lose
they have every right to determine how their primaries are carried out. Thats why Flordia lost.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thanks.
Yes, they do.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. well, just like it happened this time
If Florida chooses not to comply, National will choose to reject their votes as invalid. Deciding who is valid and who inst is most certainly the party's right.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and thus appear foolish. nm
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. He always does this
He is a chronic defender of the Florida Democratic Party leadership, the only one I ever heard of.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes, I reckon we've all seen his schtick before.
It was tiresome the first time, and hasn't improved with age.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. and the party is entitled to set the rules
they played chicken with party rules and lost. The federal government has NOTHING to do with this case. Geller and the Florida state party got what they deserved.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. State parties cannot select delegates in a manner which contravenes national party rules.
This is settled law, decided in the Supreme Court.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. I like that idea. The candidates would have to campaign in almost all states, though. So, the
Edited on Fri Nov-14-08 02:06 AM by No Elephants
national primary date could not be too early.
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Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. Don't be surprised if a court rules against the DNC...
Obama may even know it. If race is allowed as a criteria, that opens the door for other weird decisions. With college admissions, etc. the ruling have consistently held that race cannot be used affirmatively. Who knows, but the conservative court may conclude the same principle. Some local legal eagles have been worried about this for some time. Of course, any case may depend on the quality of the filing and arguments.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. The court won't rule against the DNC, and it's not that race was a criterion.
The national party sets the primary calendar and stipulates that legitimate delegations must adhere to it. The US Supreme Court has ruled that national parties are under no compulsion to seat any delegation selected in a manner contrary to party rules. The precedent here is the decision in Democratic Party v. Wisconsin (1981), which says in part:

When the National Party indicated that Wisconsin delegates would not be seated at the 1980 National Convention because the Wisconsin delegate selection system violated the National Party's rules, an original action was brought in the Wisconsin Supreme Court on behalf of the State, seeking a declaration that such system was constitutional as applied to appellants (the National Party and Democratic National Committee) and that they could not lawfully refuse to seat the Wisconsin delegation. (snip)...the Wisconsin Supreme Court held that the State's delegate selection system was constitutional and binding upon appellants, and that they could not refuse to seat delegates chosen in accord with Wisconsin law.

Held: Wisconsin (NB: and by extension any other state) cannot constitutionally compel the National Party to seat a delegation chosen in a way that violates the Party's rules. Cousins v. Wigoda, 419 U. S. 477, controlling. Pp. 450 U. S. 120-126.


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. It worries me the court has let this go on Started mid 2007
The DNC has won, DiMaio refiled, then had to file again after that. The latest I can find is from Oct. 27, 2008 which refers to the 9/26/08 filings of exhibits.

http://www-lvs13.net.ohio-state.edu/electionlaw/litigation/DiMaiov.DemocraticNationalCommittee.php

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. SO...having two WHITE states is ok....
but adding two minority states is against the law.

Makes so much damn sense.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. Where does Hillary stand on this waste of resources? Why hasn't she told them to stop? (nt)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Someday I will give my opinion....I have a lot of it written out already.
Not now.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
24. The DNC does have the legal right to decide which delegates to seat and how it will count (or
the votes of the delegates of any given state The state, however, does have the legal right to decide when the state's primary will be held, regardless of what the DNC says about it. Each side stubbornly exercising its own legal right resulted in the matter going to the rules committee. If that is the result people at the DNC and the state of Florida want to see every 4 years, then each side should continue stubbornly exercising its own strict legal right, no matter what the other side says. If we want a better result for the Democratic Party, then we should figure out a better course.

I personally do not want to see a repeat of the 2008 primary as far as Florida and Michigan are concerned. Too much drama--and it impacted the states that had primaries afterward.

Of course, the matter in 2008 was complicated by the poorly conceived and poorly drafted 4 state pledge, or Florida's and Michigan's votes would simply have been cut in half under DNC rules. Even McAuliffe conceded that would have been appropriate. As it was, the Rules Committee counted Florida as Florida voted and counted Michigan as the Michigan state party, headed by the Governor, a Clinton supporter, asked. However, by then a lot of damage had been done to the Party--and nothing forces the Rules Committee in future years to treat that as binding precedent.

IMO, all Dems would be better off thinking about a workable course, rather than legal rights.
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-08 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
25. It's all part of Hillary's plan to go back in time & steal the nomination. She has the time machine
built and everything. She's just waiting for a shipment of fuel cells from Alpha Centauri to arrive. The mothership should be arriving any day now.
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