It was like being at a klan rally except the klansmen were wearing polos and Birkenstock

[marimour]

A number of Rod 2.0 and Jasmyne Cannick readers report being subjected to taunts, threats and racist abuse at last night's marriage equality rally in Los Angeles.
Geoffrey, a student at UCLA and regular R Abercrombie od 2.0 reader, joined the massive protest outside the Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Westwood. Geoffrey was called the n-word at least twice.

It was like being at a klan rally except the klansmen were wearing Abercrombie polos and Birkenstocks. YOU NIGGER, one man shouted at men. If your people want to call me a FAGGOT, I will call you a nigger. Someone else said same thing to me on the next block near the temple...me and my friend were walking, he is also gay but Korean, and a young WeHo clone said after last night the niggers better not come to West Hollywood if they knew what was BEST for them.

Los Angeles resident and Rod 2.0 reader A. Ronald says he and his boyfriend, who are both black, were carrying NO ON PROP 8 signs and still subjected to racial abuse.
Three older men accosted my friend and shouted, "Black people did this, I hope you people are happy!" A young lesbian couple with mohawks and Obama buttons joined the shouting and said there were "very disappointed with black people" and "how could we" after the Obama victory. This was stupid for them to single us out because we were carrying those blue NO ON PROP 8 signs! I pointed that out and the one of the older men said it didn't matter because "most black people hated gays" and he was "wrong" to think we had compassion. That was the most insulting thing I had ever heard. I guess he never thought we were gay.

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8077


Sad that all it took was a poll of just over 200 black people to bring out the racism in so called progressives.

[Webster Green]

1. Seems pretty stupid to attack people who supported you..

Emotions are running a little high on this issue. :wtf:

[rvablue]

17. Even if those black guys were carrying "Yes on 8" signs, they are disgusting bigots

for using the N word.

Did you happen to catch some of those You Tube videos of people calling Barack that? Right, and our reaction was total and complete disgust.

I wish that 8 hadn't passed. With that said, these protestors who used this language against blacks are disgusting racist losers, I don't care if they are gay and I don't care if they are mad.

[Cali_Democrat]

76. You misread it....

Those two AA Gays were carrying "NO on 8" signs and racial epithets were still hurled at them.

It didn't matter that they were gay. What mattered most to some folks in the crowd was the fact that they were black.

Sad.

[Egnever]

96. understandable though no?

[rvablue]

106. Would it be understandable for me to use a bigoted epithet against the Log Cabin Rethugs

who voted for McCain/Palin? Don't think so....and it wouldn't even enter my head to do so....even if their votes in theory could have put them in the White House.

No it's not understandable and gay people, who have faced ugly slurs being hurled at them many times in their life, should know better. SIMPLY. DISGUSTING. BEHAVIOR.

[loudsue]

19. There are several issues here that make me suspicious.

First of all, who benefits if the liberals turn against each other? Second, who took the polls to begin with? (Remember Karl Rove & Co. being behind the polls that were saying McCain was ahead until the guy with control of their computer hacking got caught & had to show up in court? All of a sudden, Karl's polls were saying Obama was going to win in a landslide?)

Third, how was the proposition written? Could everyone understand the issue that would have voted against it if they didn't think they were voting against gays? (Bill Maher pointed this out on his show).

Fourth, if there had been as much publicity and education (money) behind our side, would this thing have passed?

The thing to do is for gays and people of color to take a deep breath, and come back together. There is work to do, and nobody needs to be alienating the voters that are going to help turn this injustice around.

What we really need to do is quit trying to take away people's rights IN ANY WAY.

[blondeatlast]

85. Spot-on questions and what about the cynical use of a valuable tool of democracy (referenda)?

Sadly, no one seems to want to discuss those issues--it's sexier to hate on each other.

This road will never end, I'm afraid...

[Karenina]

110. This loss was predicted. See post #107

Here's the memo from People for the American Way:

http://site.pfaw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issues_equality_prop_8_memo

“Yes on Prop 8” leaders whose view of the campaign as a battle between good and evil led to an “ends justifies the means” campaign that included grossly distorted ads, mailings, and robocalls directed at African Americans and falsely portrayed Barack Obama as a Prop 8 supporter.

There will be plenty of post-game analysis of the No on 8 campaign’s choices and strategies, and that’s not the purpose of this memo. But it is clear that the Yes on 8 campaign had a far more aggressive and systematic outreach to African American religious leaders and voters. If we either take black voters for granted because they are “supposed to” be liberal, or we write them out of our campaign strategies because we label them inherently homophobic, we cannot turn around and make them the scapegoat for our failings.

Here’s a fact that creates some perspective. On November 4 there was an anti-gay initiative on the ballot in Arkansas to prohibit unmarried couples from adopting or being foster parents. White voters supported that anti-gay initiative by a 16 percentage point margin, twice the margin for African Americans in the state. So it’s clearly not the case that African Americans are inherently more prone to supporting discrimination than white Americans.

We need a broad and ongoing strategy to create and sustain constructive dialogue at the intersections of race, religion, sexuality, and politics. And it should go without saying that partnership is a two-way street. How many white LGBT leaders and activists have been at the forefront of battles to preserve affirmative action, or raise the minimum wage?

The Right’s Big Investments Pay Big Dividends

The Religious Right has invested in systematic outreach to the most conservative elements of the Black Church, creating and promoting national spokespeople like Bishop Harry Jackson, and spreading the big lie that gays are out to destroy religious freedom and prevent pastors from preaching about homosexuality from the pulpit.

In addition, Religious Right leaders have exploited the discomfort among many African Americans with white gays who seem more ready to embrace the language and symbols of the civil rights movement than to be strong allies in the continuing battle for equal opportunity. At a series of Religious Right events, demagogic African American pastors have accused the gay rights movement of “hijacking” and “raping” the civil rights movement.

The effort to stir anti-gay emotions among African Americans by suggesting that gays are trying to “hijack” the civil rights movement is not new. During a Cincinnati referendum in 1993, anti-gay groups produced a videotape targeted to African American audiences; the tape featured Trent Lott, Ed Meese and other right-wing luminaries warning that protecting the civil rights of lesbians and gay men would come at the expense of civil rights gains made by the African American community. It was an astonishing act of hypocrisy for Lott and Meese to show concern for those civil rights gains, given their career-long hostility to civil rights principles and enforcement, but the strategy worked that year. Eleven years later, however, African American religious leaders and voters helped pass an initiative striking the anti-gay provision from the city charter. (The story of that successful fairness campaign is told in an award-winning mini-documentary — A Blinding Flash of the Obvious — that is part of a Focus on Fairness toolkit produced by People For the American Way Foundation.)

In California this year, national and local white anti-gay religious leaders worked hard to create alliances with African American clergy; Harry Jackson was busy in both California and Florida stirring opposition to marriage equality. None of the Right’s outreach to African Americans on gay rights issues in recent years has been a secret. Neither has polling that showed some deterioration in African American support for full equality. But there hasn’t been the same investment in systematic outreach from the gay rights community.

[Karenina]

112. Bingo!

[Connie_Corleone]

2. That'll get black people to support gay marriage./sarcasm

:puke:

Scapegoat the black folks who make up less than 7% of the population of California.

It doesn't surprise me unfortunately.

[ccharles000]

3. Sad.

:-(

[liberalmuse]

4. Wow, the freeps are out in force tonight.

I'm sorry, but racists are NOT true progressives and I don't appreciate your posting this vile garbage here. I'm sick of this incendiary shit on DU. Someone make it fucking stop.

[marimour]

7. I'm not freep but this is the result of the same attitudes i've seen on DU lately.

I agree that the majority of blacks are against gay marriage, but i don't think one exit poll should be taken as proof that 70 percent oppose it. What about the 29 other times a ban has been passed across the country? I doubt they all showed the same trend and those who blame blacks for this failing based on this poll need to examine their own prejudices. This is what this type of blaming causes, and it pushes people who opposed it or were indifferent further away.

[IsItJustMe]

13. You are right and that attitude sucks. It's time to put it away.

[quiet.american]

21. I'm sad to see you agree -- I honestly find this whole meme ridiculous.

Until the media (including "ours" like Rachel Maddow) started trumpeting this ridiculous theme that almost all "blacks" are against gay marriage, I'd never seen a bias against gay marriage disproportinately represented in my own African-American relatives, or gay friends, or gay relatives.

Granted, my personal observations do not encompass the world, but I find this whole "blacks" are holding back gay civil rights finger-pointing is going to a really dangerous place.

[Honeycombe8]

26. So...it's not true? That's all you need to post. Let people know it's not true.

If it is true, it is news and worthy of discussion, don't you think? As an example of what not to do, or how upset people are?

Or is it not true, or not representative of what's going on over there? I'm in TX, so I don't know firsthand.

[orwell]

5. Charming...

...so because of some whack under sampled poll everyone is at each other's throats.

Right wing wedge issues triumph again.

Who knew that Howard Ahmanson, the Knights of Columbus and the Mormons were all people of color?

We've been played again...

[marimour]

8. we really have been played. Its sad.

[political_Dem]

6. It doesn't surprise me.

Hearing about this event was very painful to me because the hate continues to escalate. :(

Even though things are getting ugly, I still believe Prop. 8 is wrong and that all of us must work toward ending discrimination. Period.

[PFunk]

9. Welcome to one of the black and latino communities deep dark secrets.

Now it's time to confront it head on. BEFORE it's used by repugs as a wedge issue (if it hasn't already)

[marimour]

10. it already has.

This type of thing can drive even more of a wedge between white and black/latino gay communities, which is dumb because gay minorities are in the best position to change minds in our communities.

[QC]

11. This is a vile, ugly, hateful thing. Period. Full stop.

Notice how no one here is saying that it must be placed in a cultural context and all that?

[Raineyb]

12. This is what happens when one engages in scapegoating

Of course considering the number of people who are under the impression that there was no scapegoating perhaps they'll consider the blog referenced a piece of fiction as well.

Regards

[nichomachus]

14. I was in Palm Springs last night

There were about 2,000 for a peaceful rally -- the local rag said 500 (bullshit)

Then a wacko Christian plowed into the crowd with a giant styrofoam cross. The cross was dismantled by some members of the crowd.

Guess what the paper led with -- failing to mention that the Klan also used the cross to take people's rights away. Had a Klansman shown up, I hope he would have had his cross dismantled too.

Anyway, it was too bad they didn't just ignore her, because all the ministers will be talking about the "Anti-Christian Riot" in Palm Springs.

[Cronus Protagonist]

15. I call BULLSHIT

Call it a hunch if you like, but I know the WeHo crowd and the n word is not used among them. At least not in public. And I know my peeps well enough to know that if even one person shouted the n word at a rally, they would be met with a hundred shocked and nasty stares, an ocean of snapping fingers and a barrage of "racist" shouts. Besides, this is flaky source material.

[smoogatz]

16. Alerting.

Flamebait. Post this shit at freerepublic, not here.

[marimour]

18. so just b.c you dont like what you hear its flamebait?

If someone was at that rally and says they are lying then fine but disregarding it b/c it doesn't support your viewpoint is stupid. If the head of No on Prop 8 had to put out a press release to tell people to stop blaming black people then something negative must be happening.

[smoogatz]

25. It's idiotic to suggest that black voters are somehow responsible for Prop 8.

Plenty of whites voted for it, plenty of Latinos voted for it, a majority of people over 65 voted for it, and a huge majority of Republicans voted for it. Opposition to gay marriage nationally has a lot more to do with age, class, religion and party affiliation than it does with race. So yeah, asshole, your bullshit post is pretty much the definition of flamebait.

[Cosmic Charlie]

30. no, this post is just a bag of flaming crap

[JackBeck]

31. Did you even click on the linked source?

Pams House Blend is one of the best LGBT progressive blogs you can find on the web.

[smoogatz]

34. So, you're in favor of perpetuating this nonsensical black/gay rift on DU?

Because that's obviously what the OPer here is trying to do.

[JackBeck]

43. I'm in favor of having a conversation about

Homophobia from communities of color and bigotry in the LGBT community, and what we can do about it moving forward.

I post a lot of stuff from Pam's website. If I had seen it before the OP, I might have posted it as well. Would you have accused me of the same?

[smoogatz]

44. If you'd posted it uncritically with an all caps OMG header, yeah.

I'm all for thoughtful self-examination on all sides of this issue, but the OP here didn't do that, IMO. It seemed pretty clearly to be an intentionally divisive post.

[marimour]

45. honestly, it was posted while i was still shocked at what I read but

the divisiveness didnt start with me. Scapegoating blacks for No on 8's failure was divisive and I posted it hoping that those on DU who were involved in this blame game see the divisions that this has the potential to cause. I was shown this link by my roommate who is a AA bisexual and she was distraught. The way she sees it there are already enough divisions between blacks and whites within the GBLT community and she was upset that Prop 8 could make it worse.

[Psyop Samurai]

46. I was in favor of that conversation too...

...however, it seems like there are too many crosswires, and now I'm unsure where to begin. Initially, I thought we were having that conversation, but I fear I was mistaken, as it seems to have turned into something else. I am presently in favor of the deep breath advocated by loudsue upthread, and am starting to see this from the perspective of getting played.

Obviously the incidents described in this post are lamentable beyond words. And, while I do not disagree about norms within the community as expressed by those who are skeptical, nor do I find this scenario implausible under the circumstances, not in the least.

I'm basically sick over the whole thing.

Pam's House Blend is a longstanding and reputable blog, and I'm reminded that it's been too long since I've been there. I think I'll take this occasion to spend some time with her as I pursue my deep breaths.
___________
edit to add:

I see a lot of good intentions gone bad and it pains me. In truth, some people are probably not best-suited to the conversation we would desire. I'm not even sure I am. Add to the mix people trying to protect us from ourselves, and you really have a sticky wicket. But even they are proceeding from good intentions while stifling legitimate discussion, not wanting division that weakens us all.

[ecstatic]

20. I heard about that on Bill Maher smh nt

[marimour]

22. That really makes me sad. I was hoping deep down it wasn't true.

[kikiek]

23. I am very disappointed and sad about the prop 8 vote. But how you go from that to this scares me.

This type of blame game will destroy us all. The battle was lost this time, but the fight isn't over. If that were the case women and blacks wouldn't be voting. The gay marriage ban reminds me of the ban of marriage between blacks and whites. And it is obviously going to take more time. We have had eight years of Bush and his politics of division and fear. And even longer of the social wedge issues Republicans used to keep us in that mindset. The election of Obama wasn't a cure, but the healing has started. Attacking other minorities and blaming them is the easy thing to do. And probably is what narrow minded bigots are hoping for. I see the Obama election as hope for all minorities in this country. I now believe that the day will come that anyone can be president. Including a gay woman Muslim with a same sex partner and family. And frankly that is fine with me.

[ellacott]

47. Beautifully stated

This whole situation makes me sad.

[Honeycombe8]

24. Horrible people to act that way. It doesn't help their cause, either, so they're stupid, too?

I can't imagine anyone in civilized society using the N word these days. Unless they were responding in anger to someone who really DID call him the F word (but I don't get that that's what happened, from the article).

I doubt any minds or votes were changed after that altercation. A pity.

[NashVegas]

27. Ouch

[Liberal Gramma]

28. A Rovian plot to divide us

Two big factions in the Democratic party are African-Americans and Gays. By reporting that AA's didn't vote in support of their gay brothers, it divides the party. I know there are a number of AA's that resent the gay community's analogy of black civil rights to gay civil rights, and as a white, straight person, I can have no insight or into that, or even the right to comment on it, BUT civil rights should be for all of us. You are born into your race and your sexual orientation, and neither should be a criterion for disenfranchisement of civil liberties. We need to support the rights of all, because an infringement of one group's civil rights is an infringement on all.

[GrannyK]

29. Divide and conquer. Pay Attention don't, feed the monkeys. N/T

[Neecy]

32. This is sad....

But this is a pretty incendiary thing to post. I've never met a gay man or a lesbian who openly used racial slurs, and I lived in San Francisco for most of my adult life. Yes, there's a lot of rage out there that's being misdirected but to post this here as though any or all of us would engage in this behavior ("...Sad that all it took was a poll of just over 200 black people to bring out the racism in so called progressives) is really offensive to me.

[marimour]

35. I'm sorry that you were offended but I'm not one to pretend like things are perfect.

It was an incendiary thing to post and I meant it that way. I want people to see what this blame game is doing to both sides. AA's as a whole are opposed to gay marriage or homosexuality and I will agree with that. But i'm not going to act like the GBLT community is perfect either. Blacks who supported this to learn more but so do people who do this type of thing. While us democrats are generally more pc in public, we can be just as close-minded and hateful as republicans. This applies to the people who acted this way at that rally, to AA's who insult gays.

[jonnyblitz]

36. i am glad you posted this, disturbing as it is. I might not have

known of it otherwise. I am one of the people on here who has been curious to explore why so many AA's are hostile towards gays so I would be considered one of those who "might not want to hear about it" but i do if it actually happened. if this is true there is NO excuse.:(

[Neecy]

40. I think it's an extreme way to make a point

Of course the GLBT community isn't perfect. But this is a very isolated example of people who would be racists no matter what their sexual orientation is. It's not the community I know and I'm part of it. But let's spread this crap around anyway.

I'm growing really weary of this.

[LostinVA]

72. I think they are trying to be divisive -- and, I can't find this story anyplace else

It may or may not be true, but I need another source to believe it.

Yeah, I got the same thing from that last line, too.

[political_Dem]

78. Rod McCullom of Rod 2.0 beta reported this.

If you'd like to read his article, http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2008/11/n-word-and-raci.html">here it is.

Jasmyne Cannick also reported the story. http://www.jasmynecannick.com/blog/?p=2846">Here it is.

Pam Spaulding on Pam's House Blend http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8077">reported it too.

Also for your reading pleasure, Wayne Besen http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/truth-wins-out-condemns-racial-intolerance-within-the-lgbt-community-following-proposition-8-defeat/">condemns the racism that is happening as a result of the Prop. 8 vote.

This is happening. Pretending like it doesn't happen only helps racism.

[mkultra]

87. maybe you shoudl check the OP about gay marriage

The racial slurs are coming out over there.

[SweetieD]

33. Based on the reactions on DU to this exit poll, I'm not surprised by

this scenario.

[RollWithIt]

37. Gay on Black violence must be stopped!

I can't believe I just wrote that.

[marimour]

42. lol.

[Undercurrent]

38. .

Pam's House Blend comment on the following article from the openly gay president of People for the American Way, Kathryn Kolbert.

"We have to move beyond fear and blame. "
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8077

--

(Excerpts) from People For the American Way's president, Kathryn Kolbert's, has released a statement about the situation. It's lengthy and worth the read, as it is both informative and personal as she calls for a broad debate around race, civil rights and the LGBT movement.

--

The past 72 hours have brought an extraordinary range of emotions - great joy at the election of Barack Obama and defeat of John McCain, and sadness and anger at the passage of anti-gay initiatives in Florida, Arizona, Arkansas, and California. That sadness has turned to outrage at the speed with which some white gay activists began blaming African Americans - sometimes in appallingly racist ways - for the defeat of Proposition 8. This is inexcusable.

As a mother who has raised two children in a 30-year relationship with another woman, I fully understand the depth of hurt and anger at voters' rejection of our families' equality. But responding to that hurt by lashing out at African Americans is deeply wrong and offensive - not to mention destructive to the goal of advancing equality.

Before we give Religious Right leaders more reasons to rejoice by deepening the divisions they have worked so hard to create between African Americans and the broader progressive community, let's be clear about who is responsible for gay couples in California losing the right to get married, and let's think strategically about a way forward that broadens and strengthens support for equality.

--

I particularly appreciate the time Kathryn spends putting the focus on the real enemy -- the religious right, the professional "Christian industrial complex" and its quite blatant courting and cultivation of the existing homophobia in the black church.

--

The Religious Right has invested in systematic outreach to the most conservative elements of the Black Church, creating and promoting national spokespeople like Bishop Harry Jackson, and spreading the big lie that gays are out to destroy religious freedom and prevent pastors from preaching about homosexuality from the pulpit.

In addition, Religious Right leaders have exploited the discomfort among many African Americans with white gays who seem more ready to embrace the language and symbols of the civil rights movement than to be strong allies in the continuing battle for equal opportunity. At a series of Religious Right events, demagogic African American pastors have accused the gay rights movement of "hijacking" and "raping" the civil rights movement.

The effort to stir anti-gay emotions among African Americans by suggesting that gays are trying to "hijack" the civil rights movement is not new. During a Cincinnati referendum in 1993, anti-gay groups produced a videotape targeted to African American audiences; the tape featured Trent Lott, Ed Meese and other right-wing luminaries warning that protecting the civil rights of lesbians and gay men would come at the expense of civil rights gains made by the African American community. It was an astonishing act of hypocrisy for Lott and Meese to show concern for those civil rights gains, given their career-long hostility to civil rights principles and enforcement, but the strategy worked that year. Eleven years later, however, African American religious leaders and voters helped pass an initiative striking the anti-gay provision from the city charter. (The story of that successful fairness campaign is told in an award-winning mini-documentary - A Blinding Flash of the Obvious - that is part of a Focus on Fairness toolkit produced by People For the American Way Foundation.)

In California this year, national and local white anti-gay religious leaders worked hard to create alliances with African American clergy; Harry Jackson was busy in both California and Florida stirring opposition to marriage equality. None of the Right's outreach to African Americans on gay rights issues in recent years has been a secret. Neither has polling that showed some deterioration in African American support for full equality. But there hasn't been the same investment in systematic outreach from the gay rights community.

--

Full statement:
http://site.pfaw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issues_equality_prop_8_memo

[No Elephants]

39. Curious here. Does anyone think this thread serves any productive purpose?

[political_Dem]

48. It does. It shows the effects of scapegoating and demonizing on both communities.

Pam's House Blend is a reputable GLBT, progressive site. If she speaks about this issue, then it is an issue within both the Black and GLBT communities.

Secondly, I don't know how anyone could have read the countless threads on DU demeaning Black people for a poll (which only surveyed about 200) and say that this doesn't have a productive purpose. These threads were filled with vicious verbal attacks on the Black community even though a lot of the Blacks said they didn't vote for Prop. 8. The AA's in that thread even said their families didn't vote for Prop. 8.

I was even called a "whore" in one of those threads even though I said I didn't support Prop. 8.

So yes, it is time to tell it like it is and not back down. The silence must not continue. And people cannot pretend like it didn't happen. It did and it hurts. This thread shows what happens when people try to silence this horrible behavior. When people don't like to talk about racism, it allows for racist acts and words to flourish.

This is an opportunity for both communities to talk about their grievances so we can move forward.

I applaud the OP for helping to put this story out there.

[marlo]

50. Indeed

I've found the people who've gone out of their way to feign ignorance and indignation to the discussion of the racism and scapegoating of the black community to be infuriating. Pretending that this post's purpose is to incite division rather that catalog some of what has boiled to the surface since Tuesday is absolutely absurd. These past few days have been just as enlightening to me about the true feelings of many so-called Liberals toward the black community and the pathetic state of the discourse on race and racism as the primaries were.

[LostinVA]

73. It is intended to cause division -- to think it's not is either naivete or willful ignorance

There was ONE THREAD on DU that was targeting blacks. It was locked very fast -- I myself alerted on it. Other threads were discussing the very true issue of homophobia within the black religious community, even though cries of "racism" have been flying around to try to stop the dialogue, and it's a dialogue that needs to continue.

[marlo]

77. Oh, fuck off

There's been racially antagonistic nonsense on this and several other progressive sites. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's really hilarious that you toss in some bullshit insinuation about people like me making false accusations of bigotry and "playing the race card" while claiming that we are trying to stifle dialogue when you and others are essentially telling to shut up about what you don't want to hear.

Keep this nonsense up if you want to alienate people who are/were on your side.

[IndianaGreen]

41. The knives are out, and collateral damage will ensue

The slaves of the 21st century are the gays and they, like Spartacus and his fellow slaves, are out to slain their oppressors.

BTW, it was the black churches that supported a similar measure in Indiana, and they were defeated by a progressive/moderate coalition.

[marlo]

49. WTF?

You condone this nonsense? The "collateral damage" you're referring to is blacks like me who wholeheartedly support civil rights for everyone. I'm not going to change my mind about LGBT rights because I believe that no one should face discrimination. However, if I keep reading the racist nonsense that has come out of the gay and "progressive" blogosphere in the past few days, I'm going to a feel of a lot less enthusiastic about volunteering my time to help change other peoples minds in the community.

[Franks Wild Years]

52. Don't let it get to you

Feelings are running rampant at the moment, and I guess this sort of thing was inevitable. However, it's important that everyone ultimately comes together to ensure that it does not become a long running trend. If a substantial number of homosexuals resort to long-term recriminations against black people, they will ensure that their cause is forever a lost one and they'll ultimately have themselves to blame more than anyone else.

I trust this will not happen because I believe the vast majority are enlightened, philosophical people who know full well that using hatred and bigotry to combat warped misinformation and close-mindedness is not going to prove productive. I think that emotions will cool and that people will ultimately come together - I give it no more than five years before California is - with regards to marriage - a truly open and equal place on a permanent basis. People come to learn, people come to understand and as the old generation continue to peel away the new will embrace the millions of natural differences in each of us - both those that are learned and those, like sexuality, that are biological.

[NorthernSpy]

51. sorry, but getting a piece of paper reading "domestic partnership" instead of "marriage license"...

... doesn't actually make you a "slave", or anything like it. That is truly insane hyperbole.


If you're asking Democrats to make you happy by shoving blacks out of the party, then I can tell you right now that we're not going to do anything of the kind. Nor should we.

[TankLV]

53. Just STOP THIS SHIT already!

It serves no good purpose...

Mods - please lock this thread - as a gay man, this thread serves no useful purpose but causing flames...

[dissemination]

54. I agree.

[political_Dem]

57. No. People need to see what is going on.

This thread alerted us to a problem that is the result of the vote on Prop 8. It deserves to stay open so we can be aware that this type of thing happens. It also sheds light on the tensions between the GLBT and Black communities. I guarantee that shutting this thread down is not going to stop the problem of racism that is erupting over the Prop. 8 vote.

Then, we need to work on solutions so that this type of problem doesn't happen anymore.

[TankLV]

58. Then I agree with the GBLT demonstrators.

If you want WAR, you will get WAR.

We're MAD AS HELL, and WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

These self-righteous religions assholes STARTED this war, and by god, we'll FINISH IT!

BRING IT ON.

Calling out bigots and homophobes for what they are is NOT a bad thing.

These assholes want to split the party - then so be it.

I don't want these BIGOTED HOMOPHOBIC ASSHOLES in MY party!

[political_Dem]

60. So you're all right with people calling Blacks the N word ?

[TankLV]

61. If THEY are using the FAGGOT word, then I will damn well see how THEY like it.

Normally, I would and have NEVER used the N word.

But since THEY brought the on THEMSELVES, I say a hearty FUCK YOU to them.

See - how this works?

[political_Dem]

63. Who said it? Have any proof in the story?

I read the story. No one used any derogatory language against GLBT people. It was the other way around. It featured Black supporters (and a Korean protester) who were only standing in solidarity with the No on Prop. 8 crowd and got harassed.

But if you have proof from the story, enlighten us.

[TankLV]

64. That's what the article said.

The person quoted in the article said they were calling them FAGS.

I don't doubt for a moment the GBLT did not start this name calling thing...but I see YOU are willing to believe otherwise...

[political_Dem]

66. I think you need to read the story again.

This is the part that was referred to, I think:

A number of Rod 2.0 and Jasmyne Cannick readers report being subjected to taunts, threats and racist abuse at last night's marriage equality rally in Los Angeles.
Geoffrey, a student at UCLA and regular R Abercrombie od 2.0 reader, joined the massive protest outside the Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Westwood. Geoffrey was called the n-word at least twice.

It was like being at a klan rally except the klansmen were wearing Abercrombie polos and Birkenstocks. YOU NIGGER, one man shouted at men. If your people want to call me a FAGGOT, I will call you a nigger. Someone else said same thing to me on the next block near the temple...me and my friend were walking, he is also gay but Korean, and a young WeHo clone said after last night the niggers better not come to West Hollywood if they knew what was BEST for them.

There isn't any proof that no one called anyone a gay slur in the story. Geoffrey, the UCLA student, did not call the shouter one. His friend did not call the shouter one. The author of this eye-witness report did not call the man one. The Korean picketer did not call the shouter one.

The shouter never said who called him a gay slur directly. However, the shouter did say, "You people." As a result, he scapegoated the Black community because of a shoddy poll.

He surely called the student and his friend the n word. The shouter did not display any proof that anyone was calling him a gay slur.

[NorthernSpy]

67. Read it again: the guy who was called nigger is a gay black man who there to join the rally...

His name is Geoffrey. He says that blacks who were merely passing by on the street got the same treatment.

YOU NIGGER, one man shouted at men. If your people want to call me a FAGGOT, I will call you a nigger.

Notice that it doesn't say anything about anyone there calling Mr. Mouthy a "faggot".

[political_Dem]

68. Thank you. :)

[NorthernSpy]

109. I take it you're feeling silly now...

Always read the freakin article, and make sure you understand what it said before going to "WAR!!!1!" over something.

[Cali_Democrat]

79. Nowhere is it said that people used the faggot word at the protest.

Some guy was making a general statement.

You misread the OP.

[NorthernSpy]

70. Well, if it comes down to that, I'm not sure I want you in my party.

:shrug:


You went off half-cocked like this because your reading comprehension skills failed you and you assumed -- wrongly -- that the article reported that blacks at the rally were calling gays "faggots". When the article said nothing of the kind. But instead of making sure that you'd gotten the situation right, you immediately start bellowing for WAR with the NIGRAHS!


I'm going to bite my tongue and not give the first reply that comes to mind.


Instead, I'll just say that if it comes down to a choice between our black fellow Dems and you, don't be too shocked if folks here aren't in a real big hurry to pick you.


And if you really, really want me to give you a few good reasons for that, then say so.

[slampoet]

80. I am sorry the actions of your people hurt you.

[Lilyeye]

55. This is really horrible to see.

I went on the Huff Post to find similar nasty coments as well.

[LatteLibertine]

56. Nothing good will come from a bunch of name calling

Stereotyping and blaming whole other groups for the actions of some in a group is also flawed.

[TankLV]

62. I totally agree...

But if THEY want "war" - they will get "war"...

WE WILL NOT TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

[Neecy]

65. who is 'they'?

[NorthernSpy]

74. don't bite off more than you can chew...

But if THEY want "war" - they will get "war"...

WE WILL NOT TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

Do you really think that the majority of Democrats are going to let such histrionics destroy our party?

[Cali_Democrat]

95. ummmmm.....

Who are 'they'?

Just curious.

[Jed Dilligan]

59. Sounds apocryphal

Gay male angelenos in birkenstocks!?

[happychatter]

69. "so called progressives" hits the nail directly on the head - NT

[LostinVA]

71. It appears you got the divisive responses you were looking for

[Cali_Democrat]

75. See what happens when hatred is stirred up against blacks because of prop 8?

A lot of this started right here on DU.

Many DU'ers, including myself, warned some of you. But you brushed off our warnings and continued to blame a tiny portion of the electorate for the passage of prop 8. It was based on one stupid exit poll and we don't even really know how accurate it is.

See what happens when hatred against AA's is allowed to fester?

Of course a majority of Hispanics and half of whites and half of Asians also voted for it. They make up a MUCH larger portion of the population in California. Most of the yes votes came not from AA's, but from these other groups.

No matter, lets blame the blacks. :eyes:

Shocking....really.

[political_Dem]

81. More articles regarding the racism against Blacks as a result of Prop. 8. FYI

Here are more stories about this phenomenon:


1) http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/8/173022/380">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/8/173022/380

(Daily Kos)

2) http://www.racialicious.com/2008/11/08/links-on-prop-8/">http://www.racialicious.com/2008/11/08/links-on-prop-8/

(Racialicious)

3)http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_10909847?source=most_emailed">http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_10909847?source=most_emailed

(San Jose Mercury News)

(Note: in the SJ Mercury article, it also talks about discrimination against communities of color in general)

[itzdaun]

82. This black woman is outta here.

This has been a week of great highs, and surprising lows.
I loved this board, and even though I rarely posted, I felt a part of. It's been a tough 8 years for democrats, but this board made it a little less difficult to endure.
Not anymore.
If I wanted free Repub style mindless scapegoating and hate, I'd go there. The freeper lurkers must be ecstatic.
This doesn't feel like DU.
Not anymore.
Maybe I'll check back in the future.
Regards

[jonnyblitz]

88. what in hell do those articles have to do with DU?

one would think it was african american rights that were getting stripped away by popular vote not gay rights. interesting how the victim becomes the bad guy all of a sudden.

[marlo]

91. If the "real" victims are going to scapegoat and attack

another group of people, then they are the bad guys, and they're going to get called on their shit.

[Cali_Democrat]

92. Exactly.

We need to work together to find a solution. Pointing fingers at a particular ethnic group is absurd.

That's no way to get more people behind the cause.

[political_Dem]

93. Exactly.

There's a lot of evidence out there which proves that this phenomenon is real and it is pervasive.

It's going to be a lot harder for some to pretend that "this didn't exist".

[jonnyblitz]

98. ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7833882&mesg_id=7833882

[file83]

99. Wow, we'll miss you...

20 posts and you signed up 2 months ago? The DU will be devastated.

More likely you are a 34 year old white male Freeper. Just call it a "hunch".

[itzdaun]

100. ....I have read

Here for a lot longer than 2 months, (not that I have to explain myself to you)and signed up so I could reply to a post.
If you didn't believe I'm who I say I am, you should have googled me before you responded and made an idiot of yourself.
Here's my myspace jackass.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=1143071

[itzdaun]

83. Thanks for this!

I did my heart good reading it.

[political_Dem]

86. No problem. :)

I'm tired of people pretending that the racism as a result of Prop. 8 does not exist. It does and it is virulent.

These articles will help shine a light on racism so that people will be aware that it occurs.

Now I hope that this knowledge gets the ball rolling on solutions.


Keep your head up. :)

[itzdaun]

89. clarification

It did my heart good to see I haven't lost my mind.
I'm so angry. This is the same gay and lesbian community where I'm made to feel less than for being bisexual.
Or I should say lesbian community, because the gay male community seems to have fewer hangups about bisexual men.
I am looked down on by my lesbian "sisters" for being bisexual...I mean, I must be promiscuous and boff anything right? No self respecting lesbian wants to be in a relationship with a bisexual woman, never mind the fact I'm monogamous to whomever I'm involved with.

But, now I fit in even less because I'm a BLACK bisexual woman?
Keep your "community". I've done just fine without you.

[political_Dem]

94. It's marginalization. It is a part of a lot of people of color's experiences.

It's terrible, because it seems that there isn't a place where you can feel welcome and identify with. It's hard enough being a person of color trying to fit somewhere in this entire society. But the GLBT folks of color have it tougher on this regard.

:hug: Hang in there. Good luck to you.

[itzdaun]

84. One more thing

It's pretty disgusting when the very same people who brought this whole "ungrateful, ignorant blacks' meme here whine about how divisive we're being by defending ourselves.
This is bullshit and that's not a word I use.
I am so hurt and angry.

Time for me to go.

[vaberella]

90. People on this board played the race blame game. Like Blacks had that kind of power.

So these actions I'm not surprised by. Makes me fuckin' sick.

[jonnyblitz]

103. they do when all their votes are combined to strip another

group their rights and THAT is what makes ME sick. :puke:

[vaberella]

104. You're singling out one racial group. Your not going after ALL that voted against proposition 8.

Much like this was singling out one group on sexual preference. There's no right or wrong here.

However you should be spending more of your damn time complaining that the group, be it State legislative group that put the proposition on the ballot in the first place. That's what should make you sick. It was already a right and then who ever had the power put it on the ballot as though the right was optional.

So I don't see why your getting sick over a group. Plus the attack on Blacks makes ME sick considering it wasn't ONLY Blacks who voted on this as I mentioned. If you want to attack the voters, you should be attacking ALL of the ones that voted for proposition 8, however you're showing your own racist mentality when the focus is on a paticular group.

Then added to that to even attack the voters when it shouldn't have even been on the ballot in the first place since it's unconstitutional. But the brain level of some to see that the problem is in the origin is lacking...and thanks for proving that.

[Karenina]

107. Prophetic piece here:

Black Voters Not to Blame if Proposition 8 Passes

http://bloggernista.com/2008/09/21/black-voters-not-to-blame-if-proposition-8-passes/

September 21, 2008


A troubling New York Times article on Proposition 8, the proposed California anti-marriage constitutional amendment, asserts that some marriage supporters are concerned that strong support for Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential candidacy among Black voters may spell trouble for efforts to defeat the proposal to take away marriage rights for same-sex couples.

<snip>

3. The article and thinking among some white activists on both sides of the proposed amendment falls into “Black community as voting monolith” frame that sees Black voters as a kind of electoral Borg in which we all think the same and vote the same. Nothing, of course, could be further from the truth. That thinking does, however, make it possible for some to see outreach to communities of color as an afterthought only to be performed in the closing weeks of a campaign if at all. Then, the lack of success in persuading a majority of voters of color of the important connections between LGBT issues and the larger civil rights movement is talked about as the result of an especially virulent strain of homophobia in communities of color rather than as a failure to aggressively target voters of color with persuasive messages.

The article does go on to cite the critical work of the Barbara Jordan/Bayard Rustin Coalition, an organization of Black LGBT people and allies:
“This is black people talking to black people,” said Ron Buckmire, the board president of the Barbara Jordan/Bayard Rustin Coalition, a gay rights group in Los Angeles. “We’re saying, ‘Gay people are black and black people are gay. And if you are voting conservative on an antigay ballot measure, you are hurting the black community.’ ”

Unfortunately work like this, efforts among LGBT people of color to dialogue with and work within communities of color, are among those given the least amount of resources and investment by LGBT organizations even as it becomes increasingly clear the key role that people of color can play in advancing LGBT civil rights. It is also clear that the work to build the necessary coalitions that strengthen the potential ties between communities of color and LGBT communities is something that needs to occur before we are facing a political crisis and not in the final hours of a campaign.

[political_Dem]

108. Yes it is. If people heeded the advice in this article, the outcome might have been different.

That's why reading this item is kind of bittersweet in light of what happened. :(

Now, it is time for me to thank you for posting a great piece that reminds all of us that we can't take voting blocks for granted.

Hopefully, with this knowledge people can learn from their mistakes and start to change things for the better.

Take care. :)

[political_Dem]

97. One More Article: The Bilerico Project

This is a rather interesting article discussing the backlash against the Black community as a result of Prop. 8. Like Pam Spaulding's article, this is from a GLBTQ perspective:

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/11/our_choice_on_prop_8_and_african_america.php">http://www.bilerico.com/2008/11/our_choice_on_prop_8_and_african_america.php

This article even has some suggestions of how we can work on healing the rift that has happened.

Please give it a look.

[Karenina]

101. From your link above

..."Blog pieces and listserv posts were littered with angry invectives about the African American vote in California. These writers actually wondered aloud why they had to be accountable for their own attitudes on race when clearly African Americans were not equally accountable for their views on homosexuality. Ignoring over a century of historical context, they seemed to be saying, "Now, see, here are the real bigots."

I cringed when I read this stuff. I couldn't imagine a more damaging position to espouse. I hated that Dan Savage felt emboldened to talk about the black vote in this manner even though, as he joked, he'd no longer be invited to speak at NGLTF events because of that organization's commitment to anti-racism.

One of the only voices of reason in the blogosphere came predictably from Pam Spaulding, of Pam's House Blend, an African American lesbian who tried to explain how the African American vote, as lopsided as it was, did not cause us to lose Prop 8.

But really, what I find important here, beyond questions of cause and effect, is the fact that seemingly smart people in our community think that their careless emotional venting about race and homophobia is a good idea. At this time, I can't imagine anything that's less productive."

You've provided excellent food for thought throughout this thread p_d. :yourock: I hope people take the opportunity to stop typing and start reading.

[political_Dem]

105. You're very welcome. I'm glad that you got something out of the articles. :)

Reading informative, intelligent and heart-felt articles on Prop. 8, are the things that keep me sane while there are mean folks out there who are demeaning the Black community. There are a lot of thinking people out there who want solutions instead of going back to a shoddy poll which only surveyed 200 Black people. If you read most of the polls, they only use a small sample of people of color in their data sets. But since this poll is blared across the MSM without proper analysis, reporters (and some people who support the No on Prop. 8 campaign) irresponsibly pushed these results as a way to justify their rotten behavior against certain groups. That is wrong. And it keeps on happening.


Meaty articles trying to put an perspective on this issue gain a lot more mileage than reading post after post of folks who scapegoat and belittle Black people. The articles which talk about solutions also work too.

Thank you very much, Karenina, for your kind words. They have warmed my heart completely after being exhausted by several days of sadness and verbal attacks. :(

I'm still against Prop. 8, but I'm feeling rather lost and tired right now. :(

[WritingIsMyReligion]

102. A-A and gay communities are apparently doing the GOP's work for them.

Stop being so fucking divisive. Seriously. What the hell is this accomplishing?

ETA: This is directed not so much at the article-posting as at these fringe wackos in California engaging in cultural/ethnic warfare.

[blondeatlast]

111. Mrs. Rove hasn't seen Karl since Wednesday morning since the first

"blame game" thread appeared here.

She was quite concerned until someone pointed out DU GD/P to her and now she's just making lots of sandwiches and hoping it will blow over as quickly as the "gays responsible for Kerry's loss" fad did in 2004.