Prop 8 is not a tragedy.

[Chichiri]

Ten years ago, it would not even have been an issue worth considering. Today it was the second most expensive election in the entire country, after the Presidential election. The entire evangelical Christian community, not just in California but in the entire United States, threw their full force into getting it passed. They gave it everything they had, absolutely everything. And the best that they were able to do was a couple of percentage points.

As a liberal with a gay family member, I am disappointed by Prop 8. But it is not a tragedy.

The tragedy will occur if the gay community does not put this right back onto the ballot in 2010. And 2012, and 2014, and 2016 if necessary -- however many election cycles it takes for half of California to realize what the rest of the nation announced last night: that the day of hate and fear is over, and that the day of love and hope has begun.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. Removing an EXISTING RIGHT isn't grist for the rationalization mill

I guess stripping women of the vote or the reintroduction of slavery or over-turning child-labor laws also wouldn't be a tragedy.

[Chichiri]

2. That's what I was referring to. Ten years ago they wouldn't have thought twice about it.

[liberalmuse]

3. I think it's an atrocity.

This despicable proposition needs to be crushed. I hope it goes to President Obama's new USSC and gets thrown out on it's ass.

I guess I disagree. It's always a tragedy when anyone has their rights taken away. It shall not stand.

[AlCzervik]

4. i'm sorry but using the Constitution to take away rights is a tragedy.

[Maven]

5. Unfortunately, a LOT of the people who voted for hope and love also voted for hate

I think you're right that it needs to go back on the ballot but without real support from our DEMOCRATIC leaders it will never happen.

[Chichiri]

9. I agree. Anyone got the President-elect's phone number?

[WeDidIt]

6. The Gay Community Should Hedge Their Bets

Get this back on the ballot, but put up another proposition removing tax exempt status from churches that campaign for or against ballot initiatives.

[Ozma]

8. Human rights is NOT a referendum issue in America! PERIOD!

[HughLefty1]

19. Exactly...

This should NEVER have been on the ballot

[WeDidIt]

20. Agreed, but for now it's the only choice we have.

So like I said, divide the efforts of the churches by forcing them to fight an intiative that will remove their tax exempt status for putting up these bullshit initiatives.

[Ozma]

30. Well, I would LOVE to see that but I think the pesky first Amendment

gets in the way of that.

[WeDidIt]

40. Nope, it sure doesn't

Tax exempt status is not guaranteed under the first amendment.

Churches are tax exempt only so long as the state determines they are tax exempt and the state is free to set the conditions under which a church may retain tax exempt status.

And a LOT of those churches that funded and campaigned in favor of prop 8 sit on multi-million dollar tax exempt property. They could be facing tax bills of hundreds of thousands of dollars, some even millions, for that property every year under the conditions of the initiative I propose.

[Starry Messenger]

10. Win!

I like this idea. Lots. I'm so angry today and I didn't want to be. Removing rights is scary.

[Ozma]

7. I don't think you'd be so dismissive of this if you were gay, yourself.

This is just silly rationalization of fear and ignorance.

I think there should be a ballot question in California next time, outlawing divorce and remarriage, outlawing having children, and outlawing kissing. How silly is THAT!!!!! Well Prop 8 is JUST as silly.

[Chichiri]

12. Perhaps you're right.

Perhaps having a gay family member isn't enough. Perhaps being a liberal isn't enough. Perhaps being open-minded isn't enough.

[Eryemil]

37. No, it isn't.

[kenny blankenship]

11. Maybe not for you

That's the great thing about not being the object of other people's HATE LEGISLATION. It doesn't look so bad from outside the crosshairs. Regrettable development, a little unseemly, a faint whiff of tar tobacco spit and burning torches, but... oh well.

[Chichiri]

15. I may not be in the crosshairs, but I have a loved one in them.

Am I one step removed from the gay community? Sure. I'll even concede that I'm not in the best position to judge the best label for this. But that doesn't mean I'm going to shut up.

[AlCzervik]

18. i'm a hetro that's been married for 17 years, 8 passing is a tragedy, period, end of story.

[SoonerPride]

13. No, it was a tragedy.

I'll pass a law next week that you can't marry the person you love.

Then you tell me that isn't a tragedy.

[Chichiri]

17. Point taken. n/t

[Ozma]

25. YES! You got THAT right! Let's make sure everyone can't marry

the people they love. That would be equal treatment under the law!

[SoonerPride]

27. Prop 9: No marriages for anyone.

I'd vote for that.

[NorCalDem]

14. Why worry about getting it back on the ballot?

It'll never make it through the Supreme Court. THe phrase "eliminates rights" is there in the text, Prop 8 HAS NO CHANCE of becoming an amendment despite the voters gullibility yesterday.

[Lumpsum]

16. Our new president will over-turn Prop 8.

Don't worry.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

21. You forgot the sarcasm tag

[SoonerPride]

24. No kidding.

Obama won't touch that.

Despite what the press and McCain said, Obama ain't the most liberal person ever elected President.

He's a centrist and will let gay rights twist in the wind.

[Ozma]

26. I hope you are wrong about that. But maybe so. n/t

[jonnyblitz]

29. bwahaha, he will hire Donnie McClurkin to head up a task force

perhaps. :sarcasm:

[comrade snarky]

22. In my head I know you are right

We fight on and win the next battle.
But right now I want to put a proposal on the next ballot that denies Mormons the right to adopt. Or maybe Christians the right to own property.

On a day I should be full of joy I'm ashamed of my state. This vote should not have even been close. This is a tragedy.

<edited for clarity>

[Chichiri]

23. I agree completely. n/t

[indie_voter]

I want to tax the churches. n/t

[flpoljunkie]

28. Tell that to those who were married in California and now face legal uncertainty of their status

[Ozma]

32. They are all welcome to move to MA and CT.... I know that's impractical

But we love our gay citizens here in New England.

[flpoljunkie]

36. A rather flip response, Ozma.

[Ozma]

38. Impractical, yes, flip, no, some of our gay sisters and brothers have rights

but not all people in this nation have rights, Massachusetts has NOT fallen into the sea, and last I heard, Conn is doing fine, too!


No, I wish we had more gay people enjoying their rights here, there and everywhere!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

41. Did you counsel black people to move out of the south if they wanted to vote?

[golddigger]

31. That was a heartless thing to say. Yes it is a tragedy.

:argh:

[stopbush]

33. The courts will slap this down.

[SoonerPride]

34. I hope to hell you are right.

What a sad day for America.

Coupled with the overwhelming joy I feel for the Obama victory, what a bittersweet time it is.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

35. maybe... or not

[W_HAMILTON]

39. I understand your point, but it was a tragedy.

I was watching The View this morning, and when Sherri Shepard started crying when she realized that the election last night meant "no limitations" for her son, the only thing I could think of was, "well, assuming he's not gay."

It's definitely put a damper on my day today. I'm not as happy as I probably should be. I think it's maybe even more depressing, seeing how far our country went last night in electing the first African American president in its history, yet gay people everywhere were left behind.

It was pretty sobering when I woke up this morning, and realized CALIFORNIA of all places approved discrimination in their state constitution.

You know the way some international people used to look admiringly at America, and think they could one day aspire to the same sort of greatness?

As a Southerner, with discrimination all around me, that is the way I viewed places like California, and Massachusetts, and places where gay people were given equal rights.

So, seeing what apparently happened last night, yes, it is a tragedy, at least to me.