I think the Kerry campaign is onto something,

[HFishbine]

which Kerry initially said first in my hometown, by the way; that he'd expect US forces out of Iraq in four years.

It's not the "Bring 'em home now" many would like to see, and it may sound like a long time for others, but it puts the horizon in sight. Listening to Wes Clark and some Bush moron debate this on NPR today demonstrated quite clearly that Bush does not have an exit strategy.

Kerry and camp should play this up. Kerry has an exit strategy and Bush does not! It's a significant difference on one of the most important issues of the election. Kerry has an exit strategy, Bush doesn't have a plan.

[kevinhnc]

1. Problem is

Any talk of an exit strategy would be talked up in the media as Kerry being weak and losing the war on terra.

Kerry has probably gone as far as he can without this happening. Still, what he has done has been a good move.

[girl gone mad]

4. Confront Bush with his own words.

The Bush mouthpiece on NPR said we can't set a time frame to leave Iraq because that will embolden the terrorists to move in the day after we leave. Bush says the war on terror can't be won; therefore terrorists will always exist; therefore we can NEVER leave Iraq if we follow Bush's plan.

[Carla in Ca]

5. And, how will Australia react

to the bombing in Jakarta? It's just like Madrid and it is out of control. I can't believe anyone would vote for this idiot!
And we have a new video from Al Queda today...this is really bad, folks.

[HFishbine]

6. That's excalty my point

Attempts at spinning it against Kerry sound pathetic -- like there will never be a win. Kerry has a plan. Kerry will bring this to a conclusion. Arguing against it only sounds like "there is no end in sight." Which do you think people want to hear?

[IronLionZion]

7. really?

so a tough guy would stay the course even though the course is headed off a cliff?

I think he can share his exit plan and come out on top. He has to make sure everyone knows it's his and not let Rove steal it, and then talk it up as strong and decisive and whatnot and that Bush is indecisive cause he doesn't have a plan.

[seabeyond]

2. further bush will grab it, use it, media will say kerry the same as

bush what is the difference. kerry has got to get his own plan, or we might as well elect bush

[IronLionZion]

3. what is his plan?

He's been very vague about it and a lot of his other plans. What I got was: more international presence, forgive debt, train Iraqi army, create constitution

[HFishbine]

8. Uh, yeah...

And Bush's plan?

[IronLionZion]

9. Bush has only one plan

take the money and run. He doesn't give a shit what happens in Iraq obviously.

But Kerry needs to be a little more specific about his plans or he will be attacked for it. Like he still hasn't told us how he's going to balance out the budget without raising taxes. Or how he will reduce our dependence on ME oil.

[HFishbine]

11. Yes, I agree

You make a good point. Kerry is "this" close to drawing some real distinctions. Just a few specifics (simply and easy to understand) could be the tipping point.

[Malva Zebrina]

12. Exactly--

what the hell is his plan? His campaign said they are reluctant to reveal it. Well duh-excuse me for asking-and we are to support something we know not what it is about?

I am getting really really fed up with it--the godamm evil war is the most important issue here. The lies of Bush that took us into that war is the most important issue here.]

Thousands and thousands have been killed and murdered and we talk about good Samararitans to a Baptist group? Mistake, imo,.The war IS the most important issue on the floor right now dammit and I am getting fed up with the avoidance of that issue-- and if that expression is not welcome here on DU , I will gladly not post any longer.

I am weary of the Kerry campaign expecting blind support without telling me what I am voting for and I am weary of the slaughter and the empire seeking. I am also weary of the goddam slogans and the romanticizing of war. One thousand families will NEVER be the same and we have a candidate that will not tell us where he stands and what he going to do to relieve that agony?

and also one who is repeating the slogans of "freedom" and "war on terror" as in his speech honoring the arrival of the thousandth soldier to die?

excuse me--my country is broken.

[IronLionZion]

17. yeah really

Apparently Kerry is worried that if he reveals it, then it will be shot down and never get implemented. If Bush had revealed his plans in 2000, Al Gore would be president today, we would not be at war, we would not have been attacked on Sep. 11, and we would still have our civil liberties. So they keep it very vague.

It's a shame that politics has gotten so shitty, but I would still like to know his plans. Then we can bash the other side for not having any plans.

[RichardRay]

18. What would make you happy?

How much of a 'plan' do you need to see to be satisfied?

At one end is what we've got, a statement of intentions without a lot of detail.

At another extreme would be a time table with a list of the dates on which each occupying military and civilian entity would leave and the means by which they would travel; which allies would take over what responsibilities; what internal Iraqi bodies would take over others; which banks would provide what funding; etc., etc.

I suspect your desired response is somewhere in between those two - what is it? I don't expect you to provide a complete answer with lots of detail, but how about something more?

Richard Ray - Jackson Hole, WY

[Malva Zebrina]

20. Richard--I want a plan that would take us out of there right now

and I don't want obfuscation and secrecy about how it is to be done. Enough of slaughter of thousands of people and of our best and youngest and brightest being killed and being forced to having to kill women and little babies and children for nothing but the war-profiteers. We have lost that war and the best thing to do is get out of there and let them duke it out for themselves. They will. We know little about tribal customs and the way they will duke it out, but they deserve to take control of their own country and their own assets.



I am a voter going to the polls and I want to know what I am voting for as opposed to going to the polls to know what I am voting against. I resent having to cast a vote against Bush while not knowing what my vote is being cast for

I had no attachments to any one of the candidates, I thought they were all good men and one good woman. I changed my registration from Independant to Democrat so I could vote in the caucus in my state. I liked Kuchinich and Dean, but was open to Kerry.

Most people in that caucus voted for Kerry because they thought he had experience due to his fifteen years as a Senator and was sober and stable--I know because I talked to them. It seemed to them he was on firm ground and knew the ropes.

I could not vote for anyone who voted for the Iraq War Resolution but accepted that Kerry was a good man and ABB without too much worry. But as time goes on do not accept the "Bush made me believe him" schtick and as it turns out--that is the snag that has caused Kerry to become weak in the eyes of the voters. He is weak because of that vote and now is forced to rationalize that unfortunate vote, which I believe was all politics, and has made some really worrying statement about it and his answer, which has not been an answer. He is mimickuing the Bush stand and taking us into that Right Bush camp. and I really wonder about that a lot.

I also am disappointed in his use of rhetoric in his speech honoring the thousand soldiers that have died, using the old Bush standby they were fighting for "freedom" and were fighting the "war on terror" his words.

He has lost me, I am afraid, although I know I must cast a vote for him to get rid of Bush.-- and that is what has me pissed off.

[rniel]

14. Bush's plans are all a big secret

Kerry talks about plans and strategies that use common sense to solve problems. Bush just "stays the course" no matter what a disaster it becomes.

Bush is like the commander of the fishing boat (george clooney) in "The Perfect Storm"

There's a huge hurricane coming that will destroy the boat. And what does he do. Turn around and head right for the middle of it.

What a manly man.

[kentuck]

10. I think it might be beneficial for Kerry to say he has an exit strategy...

and George Bush does not. :)

[Mick Knox]

13. How many here want to voluteer for 4 more

Years in Iraq under Kerry hmmm?

I sure dont.

I wish he would stop saying stupid crap like that. It pisses me off. I know I dont want to be the last guy to die for a mistake.

How about you?

[paulk]

16. would you rather get drafted for Bush's endless war?

[Malva Zebrina]

19. that is the point

people will perceive that both are the same.

And that is Kerry's fault for being vague about it and also for boxing himself into a corner with his "political" stance on the Iraq war resolution, that is being proven very difficult to get out of because the Bush propaganda team is right on it, and I am , at this point, not sure that he wants to get himself out of that corner from the things I have been reading. ie, that he would have also gone in to take out Saddam, which is ridiculous as we know here on DU, at least I think we know the ridiculousness of that.

It only begs the question--do we really support a pre-emtive attack and invasion technique? Even if it is done surgically and would be better than Bush's ill thought out invasion?

In that atmosphere of Iraq, I doubt it--seriously doubt that an invasion there could have ended up much different that it has. and that is not even a question for debate.

The real question is whether or not, pre-emptive attack is a viable moral decision or is it barbaric empire seeking? and the answer is that if one attacks Iraq under those parameters, then it lays open attack to anyone one deems necessary to take out because of various reasons all of which are certainly to be answered with a yes by those who are all for empire.]

Bringing "freedom" to those countries we deem are not in tune with our so called demcratic ideals. and using our youngest to fight and die for empire and calling it brave after they arrive home dead, because they are fighting for "freedom"

Kerry's approach is a disaster.

Because of the lack of a defintion of his stance on this slaughter that would separate him from Bush re the war, in spite of his weak defense that Bush did not do it right, people will and do think they would prefer Bush the strong bully over the vague Kerry. They both want the same things, it appears.

Might as well not change horses in the middle of the stream goes the thinking.

[Old and In the Way]

15. I really don't think Kerry could or should predict what his plan will

be for exiting Iraq. Until he has control of the situation it's a hypothetical that Bush can tie him up in knots on.

What I do have is confidence that Kerry will extricate us from Iraq sometime between 1/20/05 and 1/20/09. He has no designs on making Iraq the 51st state, nor carrying on the PNAC plan for world domination. I think we know enough about Kerry's position on wars of folly to believe that he will figure a way to get us out of this mess. I know George won't.

[actinide92]

21. Kerry needs to look strong on terror

Compare the Iraq strategies:

K - "I will get out of Iraq."

B - "I will win the war on terror in Iraq."

B - is much more positive, is hitting his strengths - war, terror & Iraq.

K - is quitting Iraq, which is well and good. But the electorate does not know why, it looks like he is turning and running.

K needs to have an alternative way to win the war on terror. War in Iraq needs to be divorced from the war on terror. K is campaigning as a Warrior, so must define an enemy he can attack. Suggest Saudi - the M Moore approach - a fundamentalist Islamic state with ties to terror & B.

[Old and In the Way]

22. Welcome aboard!

Totally agree with your assessment. I like your point that K can't run effectively as a warrior (not that he isn't stronger than Bush in this area)....I want him to run as Prosecutor...and I think he can cream Bush on his past personal/financial relationships with the Saud's that compromise his options and our national security today.