Frustrated with voters

[wakfs]

I just have to share this email conversation I had with a friend of mine. She's a solid citizen type, from a blue-collar family (her Dad is a life-long Democrat). Sorry for the long post but it represents to me what we're up against.

Here's the thread of the conversation:

My friend:
i am telling you i think if you talked to my dad you
might change your mind bucko. he makes real valid points and he thinks that theresa heinz kerry is a loose cannon and not good material for a first lady. he agrees john edward seems like a good guy but he would only be a VP so it really doesnt count

My response:

There is ZERO possibility that I would ever change my
mind. Why? Because Bush and the GOP, their policies,
politics, dirty campaigning techniques, etc., all
stand in direct opposition to my most sacred beliefs.

In short, their very existence offends me on the
deepest level. They represent all that I consider evil
in humanity.

I ain't kidding either.

There can be no possible reason to doubt Kerry's
ability as a commander-in-chief. I cannot for the life
of me understand why anybody would think Bush is a
better "leader." Oh, because he appeared on the news a
few days after 9/11 with a fucking bullhorn? Any
president would have done that. Because he sent troops
to Afghanistan? Any president would have done that. He
is a failure who represents the extremely wealthy, is
shifting the tax burden to the middle class (us; don't
take my word for it, do a google news search for
Alternative Minimum Tax, then see what I mean), allows
large corporations to essentially dictate government
policy in all areas, is in fact CUTTING funds for
things we americans take for granted, will gut social
security and force everyone to get "private" accounts
with no protection from market fluctuations, and runs
foreign policy with one single goal - have the USA
control the world's dwindling oil supply. He's a
loser, he's always been a loser, he's a moron and
non-intellectual who refuses to see all sides of
complex issues before making a judgement.

Kerry has actual BATTLE experience. He is an
intelligent man who yes, sometimes speaks to much like
a senator, but he has decades of experience dealing
with the complexities of the modern world.

There can be NO LOGICAL REASON to prefer Bush over
Kerry unless you buy into the veiled racism behind his
policies, or are easily impressed by the way somebody
appears on TV. Look beyond the TV images and phony
words and examine the REAL men behind the candidates.

Friend:

everything i know about kerry comes from newsweek or on line. something about him gives me a creepy feeling just like when i saw clinton and he looked like behind his smile he was saying stupid asses i never liked clinton and there is something about kerry i just dont like and i think his wife should have more candor than being crass. r u forgetting kerry voted for going to Iraq? i think that to change the mix now would be trouble in the middle east- i would like to see our guys out of there already but the reality is it cant be just yet and i think a change in presidency would be detrimental and kerry wouldnt take as strong of a stance. Just my opinion i dont like the kerrys and i didnt like the clintons-

Friend:

I am sorry but theresa heinz kerry is not a postive note to her husbands election. her comments to the press are not appropriate she does not present herself as anything more than a big mouth rich bitch that thinks she can say whatever she feels like. sorry but Laura Bush has it all over Theresa. The more i keep reading about the Kerrys the more i dont like them.

My response:

(Didn't save my email) I challenged her on where she gets her information about Kerry.

Friend:

everything i know about kerry comes from newsweek or on line. something about him gives me a creepy feeling just like when i saw clinton and he looked like behind his smile he was saying stupid asses i never liked clinton and there is something about kerry i just dont like and i think his wife should have more candor than being crass. r u forgetting kerry voted for going to Iraq? i think that to change the mix now would be trouble in the middle east- i would like to see our guys out of there already but the reality is it cant be just yet and i think a change in presidency would be detrimental and kerry wouldnt take as strong of a stance. Just my opinion i dont like the kerrys and i didnt like the clintons-

My response:

That makes no sense. Kerry voted to give Bush the
authorization to go to war on Bush's promised
condition that he would exhaust every diplomatic
effort. And lest we forget that Bush and his crack
intelligence team screwed up big time with the whole
WMD bs.

Abe Lincoln gave people a creepy feeling too (many
called him a gorilla) and he turned out to be the best
president ever. Remember, feelings are just that, they
are NOT based on factual analysis.

Man, this is so frustrating!! How do fight this kind of ignorance?

[Jack_Dawson]

1. She's been Hannitized

Just take a deep breath and move on. The only way they'll wake up is if their kids get drafted.

[wakfs]

2. Ironic thing is....

...her 18 year old son plans to join the military next year!

The level of stupidity in this country is beyond belief!

[Jack_Dawson]

8. Could it be she's not that smart?

Seriously...there are a lot of people out there who just aren't terribly bright. These are the same "you're either with us or against us" dolts that frankly you're too intelligent to win over.

[faithfulcitizen]

11. The same is true for my mother-in-law...

and her husband, both are rabid republicans for no other reason than Bush's religiosity and they are encouraging their son to join the Army this May! She even said to me "but hopefully this Iraq thing is over by then" WHAT???? All I could do was laugh, and say well, if he joins you might as well get a care package ready-HE'S GOING TO IRAQ. Unfriggin'believable! :crazy:

[madmax]

3. "What's the Matter with Kansas"

Just started reading this one. Hopefully, it will explain why people like your friend and those in the "Heartland" vote Republican against their own best interests. :shrug:

Strange fruit...

[michigandem2]

4. you can not win this...

she refuses to hear you...has really silly rationalizations...people that never liked clinton probably always vote republican..becuase Clinton won in a landslide in 1996...she probably voted for freaking DOLE!!! LOL! Now ask me if that makes sense..

there are lots of people that just can't hear the truth...but like I heard on Randi Rhodes...this president and the administration have committed SO many crimes..the people that were blind..might be surprised when they all walk away in handcuffs.!!

[TomClash]

5. Ask her why she thinks it is her interest to vote for Bush-Cheney?

Here are some of the holes in your friend's argument:

1) How can Theresa Kerry be influential and John Edwards not be?

2) At least Kerry thinks about people like her - to Bush-Cheney they are irrelevant, except as a sieve. As for Clinton, he ran the most accessible WH ever.

3) Bush's Iraq policy is not succeeding and everyone knows it. Kerry will not disengage right away, but a clean slate would have the advantage of securing allies to provide help to stabilize the country.

Your friend is a dope. She makes her decision on superficial analyses, not on facts or issues. She and her father want to vote Republican because rah rah patriotism makes them feel good.

[MsTryska]

6. well.....at least

she's not like the people i battle with on a regular basis who quote the Fascist News Channel and Rush Limbaugh as arguments without even realizing.

the argument always goes like this....

them: something about kerry with no basis in fact
me: the actual facts about said comment
them: clinton bashing
me: what's that got to do with anything
them: Kerry is a "flip-flopper"


same shit day in and day out.

[swag]

7. Rule of argumentation: first person to say "bucko" loses.

[GoldenOldie]

10. Just had lunch with and old friend who is a Bush Supporter

I haven't seen her for a few month's and when she arrived with a few more friends, at my home for a light lunch and visit, she noticed the "Defend America, Defeat Bush." bumper sticker on my car. Jokingly she said she wasn't voting for Skerry Kerry. Everyone started talking about how they were sick and disgusted with this campaign. When she mentioned Kerry's 2-month tour in Vietnam and all those medals he had earned for such a short time. I asked her where she heard that he only served 2-months. I then proceded to give her some hard cold facts: His first tour was spent on a ship off the coast of Vietnam and then he requested a second tour, where he returned to swiftboad duty, etc., etc., etc. She was surprised to hear this. I continued on with Bush's TANG records and informed her that this was not news to those of us that had heard about it during the Bush, McCain campaign of 2000, and the information was immediately suppressed.

I was astounded that all of my friends were unaware of what had been done to John McCain by his own Party in order to get George in the White House. John McCain is the Senator for us all and they had no inkling that even his fellow Republican Senator and Congressmen from Arizona crucified him during 2000. They were unaware of the control of the media.

Let's say they left my home a little bit more educated than when they entered and I think they will carry this new found info with them.......and best of all we parted still good friends.

[Union Thug]

9. Your friend is an idiot. End of conversation.