Do You Think All Skinheads Are Racist or Racially Motivated?

[Symarip]

This should be interesting...

[LostinVA]

1. No -- there are Skinhead groups that are very ANTI racist

[yardwork]

35. That's my understanding as well.

[LostinVA]

41. One US group even actively promotes racial harmony

[a la izquierda]

48. Thank you and that is all I have to say...

on the matter!

[LooseWilly]

53. All the bald punks I've ever met who were ANTI racist...

... and I've known MANY... labelled themselves "bald punks".

The label "skinhead" is generally only embraced by the racists... though some of those I've known who use that label are more like "ex-racists", or maybe "too-lazy-to-keep-up-the-hate-racists"...

[cynatnite]

2. No, I do not...

Originally, skinheads were primarily influenced by music, fashion and lifestyle. They came from 1960's London. The racism didn't rear itself until much later.

Just like any group, you'll find a mix of politics from the far right to the far left. Many are apolitical.

[Symarip]

4. Interesting...

So if you know that, and I know that, how come it's so hard to convey that idea to other people?

[cynatnite]

10. The stigma is just too tough to break once Nazi and Hitler were associated with them...

It becomes a permanent label.

[backscatter712]

29. There are non-racist skinheads.

IIRC, the skinhead look came from dockworkers, I think from the UK (correct me on this.) The shaved heads were because the docks had problems with lice, and the big black boots were steel-toed work boots needed for all the heavy labor.

It was only later on that racist douchenozzles took the look and style and misappropriated it.

And yes, there are skinheads that are not racist assholes.

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. Used to hang out with SHARP guys in the East Village from time to time

SHARP = Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice.

Problem was that these guys were also all "Straight edge,' and Daddy a_m likes his booze, son, gnaw mean?

[Sebastian Doyle]

24. Yeah, the SHARPS in Portland tried to recruit me in the early 1990's.

I told them that I agreed with their views on race, but not with their views on hair and weed.

[Howardx]

25. yep

i knew sharp guys in seattle.

[d_b]

5. some of my best friends are anti-fascist skins

so no.

[vaberella]

16. Agreed there are Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice. I knew a few.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_Against_Racial_Prejudice

[stevedeshazer]

6. Instead of posting a poll, maybe you should explain

that there are non-racist skinheads, since that's obviously your point.

Every punk knows that.

:thumbsdown:

[Symarip]

19. You try doing that.

See how far it gets you.

Not to be cynical, but I already have. I'd rather just see where everyone stands.

[renie408]

27. I didn't know it. I thought that racism was part and parcel of being a skinhead.

like the skinned head.

[DrTeeth]

7. being a skinhead and not being racist

is like saying you are a stripper but you don't take your clothes off

[Symarip]

12. Oh.

So, how many skinheads do you know? I mean, let's be real. I don't know any Black Panthers therefore, I don't make general statements about them. Tell me what you know about skinheads.

[Forkboy]

13. Then you don't know much about many skinheads.

All the ones I knew in the late 70's and early 80's were anything but racist.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about

Welcome, by the way.

[LostinVA]

43. Wrong -- there are many nonracist Skinhead groups

[Richard Steele]

55. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and thus appear foolish. nm

[Ikonoklast]

61. My oldest son is a Straight Edge Skinhead.

Deplores racism. Working on his PhD.

What else ya got there, Skippy?

[Symarip]

8. You know what's really sad.

Is that every response this far is a resounding 'no' but yet, the poll reads more people think 'yes'. C'mon, if you think skinheads are racist, sound off. I'm dying to hear why.

[ecstatic]

11. The only skinheads I've heard about are bad

And I never researched any further into it. :shrug: The idea of "well meaning" skinheads is news to me.

[Symarip]

15. I don't know what defines 'well meaning'

But what if someone takes a little pride in their upbringing? (and before we jump to conclusions, this excludes racial heritage).

[Symarip]

9. Dupe nt

[Captain Hilts]

14. It started out that way, but not all skinheads are racists now. Thugs, yes. Racists, no.

On average, though, I'd say most are skinheads.

[Starry Messenger]

20. Are you saying all racists are skinheads?

I got lost at the end there.

[Captain Hilts]

49. Oops, many skinheads are racists.

I see a difference here in Toronto from the US.

Racists are sure hard to spot. They come in all shapes and sizes!

[Starry Messenger]

68. Are there a lot of nazi skins in Toronto?

That's sad. I always hoped Canada was guided by better angels. My worst nazi skin encounter was in San Diego when I went to State. A bunch showed up to see the Dickies for some damn reason.

[LooseWilly]

54. Maybe all thugs are racists?

Or all racists are thugs?... I'm kind of confused there too...

[rch35]

66. all skinheads are thugs and all jews are moneygrubbing bastards

because i said so.... despite the proof to the contrary

[vaberella]

17. Hey..No, not all skinheads are racist. There is a group called Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice.

I knew a few of them. Really wicked and intelligent people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_Against_Racial_Prejudice

[JuniperLea]

18. Outside of a few punk bands who unfortunately...

Use shock symbolism in the form of things society deems inappropriate... like swastikas and such... yes.

Not all shaved headed people are Skinheads,however.

[Starry Messenger]

21. I voted #4

I've met all kinds of skinheads. Nazi skins are just vile. I don't know how that ever got popular.

[skooooo]

22. I would say that, no I guess they're not all racists, but..

...more than anything, I have a wary disinterest in them as a group.

If I identified with a group that others, rightly or wrongly, had very negative views of, I would find something else to call myself. That's kind of awkwardly put, I suppose.

:shrug:

Not saying YOU should, that's just how I would think.

[Ecumenist]

23. No, there are skinhead groups that are EXTREMELY antiracists!!

They're called "SHARPS". Look them up.

[rockymountaindem]

28. It's not yes or no. Some are, some aren't.

There are some who are racist to the core, and other old school skinheads who just adhere to a non-racist working class pride and culture. Then there are actively anti-racist skinheads like the SHARPs (skinheads against racial prejudice). However, I think these days when people say "skinhead", the default perception is that of the neo-nazi racist.

[Occam Bandage]

30. No. There are skinheads who are strongly anti-racist.

[Canuckistanian]

31. Uh... why else even HAVE an organization like the skinheads?

What ELSE do they do except demonize and terrorize minorities?

Are they good at origami or something?

[boppers]

34. Different groups:

One group is in solidarity for the working class.
One group is trying to live life without drinking or drugs.
One group is just doing it for a fashion trend.

There are many, many, types of skinheads.... and I say this as somebody who has been jumped and beaten a group of Nazi skins.

[Canuckistanian]

39. For real?

I can half see the "working class" angle, but no drinking or drugs?

And I can obviously see the "rebel fashion trend" thing.

[Forkboy]

42. Straight Edge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge

Not my favorite bunch, but they're not racists at least.

[Canuckistanian]

46. I've heard of Straight Edgers

But I've never heard of skinhead Straight-edgers.

[boppers]

32. Oi. Well, isn't that Special(s).

I've known SHARPs. Two-tones. For a while, there was even a group of "bears" I knew who used to sport pink docs... (nothing clears out some nazi skins like a wandering pack of huge, gay, skinhead men.)

I think the problem is that "skinhead" has become a label like "hacker". While there are many meanings for a given label, sometimes the one that gets the most negative press seems to stick.

[casus belli]

33. All of the skins I have personally known were anti-fascist and anti-racist

In fact, many of them had personally had physical confrontations with some of the less tolerant variety at concerts and shows. It's a shame that being a skin-head has become synonymous with being a racist. I've met some really sweet people who identify with skinhead culture.

[stillcool]

36. I voted yes...and I think of it as descriptive..

of those who belong to a white supremacist group..Aryan Nation..something like that.

[Symarip]

40. So...

When the media described the Columbine kids as 'gothic' is it a safe narrative to call all kids who dress in trenchcoats and go on shooting sprees as goths? Yeah, that makes plenty of sense.

[stillcool]

47. I have no idea about 'gothics'...

and I know of no other group of 'skinheads' other than what I described. Instead of being nasty why don't you be informative? How about that for making sense?

[MrSlayer]

37. No, there are many different types of skinhead.

There are Hardcore skins, Nazi skins, American skins, several different types in Europe as well.

[juno jones]

38. Most of the skinheads I've known

Have been OK. I was good friends with one for awhile and even met black skinheads. Not at all racist.

Then there's my sister and her friends. Racists to the bone and most very stupid about it because they don't really have any knowledge of what they're talking about. I think the philosophy just feeds their predjudices which stem from blaming for others for their horrible meth-fuelled failure at life.

[BlooInBloo]

44. Oy.

[Arrowhead2k1]

45. Most skinheads are actually anti-racist these days. They just get a bad rap from these Nazi

wannabe boneheads. It's kind of embarrassing to tell a layman you listen to skinhead bands because they may take it the wrong way unless you try to explain the misconceptions about the subculture. All the skinhead bands I listen to are unquestionably anti-racist.

[TheDonkey]

50. skinheads are racist bigots. Bald headed people are fine

there is a serious difference some DUers don't seem to get. There are no "nice" or "sane" skinheads. By identifying as a skinhead you very well know what sort of company, legacy, and culture you are embracing. If you are bald-headed we'll that is just a fashionable choice.

[Starry Messenger]

51. That's a weird take on it.

Non-racist skins came first. Then a small portion of the group started to dominate the media narrative on the fashion. It is unfair to say there are no nice or sane skinheads. There are plenty of examples in links on this thread.

edit: spelling

[LooseWilly]

52. The poll question is definitionally slanted.

Yes, all skinheads are racially motivated. By definition.

Bald punks, on the other hand, not necessarily.

A punk rocker not having hair is not the same thing as that same punk rocker being a skinhead.

Your phrasing in the poll question doesn't acknowledge the differentiation that anyone who's ever spent any time in the "punk community" understands explicitly.

The way you've phrased it, the question is essentially structurally the same as asking if all Hassidics are Jews. The answer, obviously, is yes. Contrariwise, all Jews are not Hassidic. Likewise, just because you are a diamond merchant, wear a beard, or in some other way have some similarity with a stereotypical Hassidic Jew, that doesn't mean that you are a Hassidic Jew.

[Symarip]

75. Sorry to say, you're quite wrong on this.

If I wanted to make the distinction between people who decide to shave their heads and Skinheads, then I would have. I am specifically talking about sSinheads. Not bald punks. Not Joe the Plumber.

Skinheads.

Feel free to google "Skinhead history" to understand the exact distinctions I made in my poll.

[Rhythm]

56. Not all skins are racists, but the majority are intolerant about something or other.

Back when i lived in Charlotte, I knew Hammerskins, SHARPS, and a lot of bootboys (and girls) in between.

Each group had something that they were spoiling for a fight over. For the Hammerskins, it was racial identity politics and white supremacy... for the SHARPS it was being hardcore anti-racists, but also being intimidatingly hard-core straight-edgers. There were times when one group was as bad as the other, and so after a while i just avoided the whole punk scene where i lived, just from the weariness of dealing with all the bullshit all the time.

edited for stupid spelling errors...

[slampoet]

57. So 52% of DU is completely ignorant. Wonderful.

[uppityperson]

58. Define "skinhead" and I can answer. After reading the replies,

I realize that we are using that term differently, so please define it first.

[Starry Messenger]

59. It's a style like "hippie"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead

[uppityperson]

62. Well, for that definition, no.

Having done skinhead look for a bit as a middle aged woman (had a job I didn't worry about and always wanted to) and having lived with young adults sporting the style, I'd have to say no.

For those who use the definition of "neo-nazi" for skin head, I'd say yes.

[TheKentuckian]

60. I don't know what they label themselves

but to me bald is bald and skinheads are neo-nazis.

I used to hang with plenty of bald punk rockers and skaters in the day and not a one ever called themselves skinheads. Maybe, that's a regional thing but everyone I ever came across that labeled themselves as skin heads seemed to think the Klan was for old people and said "nigger" more than NWA, Mark Furman, mobsters, and Dave Chappele all put together.

[phusion]

63. Did anyone see This is England?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480025/

This is England: Mods, New Romantics, and Skinheads are the major youth sub-cultures of this very English summer of 1983 and young 12-year-old Shaun is left wandering aimlessly alone and lost during the start of his school holidays, until his chance meeting with Woody and his fun and friendly Skinhead pack. Finding a new lease of life; girls, parties, Ben Sherman shirts, Doc Martin boots and shaven hairstyles young Shaun is welcomed, life during this summer holiday has got a whole lot better. That is until Combo arrives on the scene bitter, dangerous, racist, militant and psychotic life for young Shaun has just approached his first major crossroads. This is England is a look back at the early eighties of British working-class life through the eyes of young Shaun and his new gang, and dealing with the bitterness of outside influences such as racism and xenophobia, of mass unemployment and the fall out of the Falkland's War;

GREAT movie!

[Starry Messenger]

65. I just added that to my netflix queue. Thank you.

Have you seen 24 Hour Party People? More New Wave and Manchester scene but fun. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0274309/

[phusion]

67. looks good...

i'll have to check it out! thanks! :)

[IndependentDem]

64. unfortunately most people don't know the difference between skins and sharps and punks...

Also you have to factor in all the posers that just do it for fashion.

[JackBeck]

69. The moment you stated "all" your poll became skewed.

There's not one group in this country that ascribes to "all" the characteristics that society defines them as.

[David__77]

70. Of course there are non-racist and anti-racist skinheads.

In high school I organized them, the SHARPs, to break from their narrow patriarchal ways and launch into broader political struggle. It was difficult because so many of them were fixated on booze and girls only.

[Frank Booth]

71. Since just about everyone, whether skinhead or not, is racist in some manner to at least

some degree, I'd have to say that most skinheads are probably racist in some manner or other to at least some degree.

[LooseWilly]

72. What?, are you French?

:sarcasm:

[blogslut]

73. Back in the 80's

Among the punks, wavers and new romantics, there was this group of kids that shaved their heads and wore heavy boots. They weren't racist and most of them were gentle souls that were simply tired of all the damned fashion statements. They were known as skinheads but after a while, they were replaced in the public consciousness with the neo-nazi types.

That's how I remember them. Happy dancers, spaced out on X and grooving to Malcom McClaren's Madame Butterfly.

[Forkboy]

74. When I first met skinheads they were a hell of a lot nicer than I was.

They were pretty much how you described them, peaceful people not buying into certain cultural concepts. I was more violent than they were.