How hard will Obama fight if the election is stolen?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

We all remember how little fuss was made by Gore and Kerry...

Somehow I think that if this election is stolen, or is very close...

Obama would stop at nothing to prove his case.

What do you think he would do?

And what should we do?

And as disclaimer: I don't think that this will happen; but it could.

:shrug:

[gmoney]

1. Mr. Harvard Law BETTER open a few cans of whup-ass...

He certainly has the resources to legally challenge anything, anywhere. Let's hope Joe's right about that steel spine...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. I agree!

The more whup-ass, the better!

I suspect we really have nothing to fear.

[babylonsister]

11. Mr. Harvard Law? This makes me smile.

I've known about Obama having this on his resume since before January 08, when I got on board for him.

The man is smart, and has used his intelligence. I hope you get it; he's one in a coupla million, or more.

[mentalsolstice]

30. Make that Mr. and Ms. Harvard Law

Just as with the Clintons, we're getting a twofer this time.

[tblue]

41. Mr. CONSTITUTIONAL Law professor

[tritsofme]

2. How hard will Obama fight if aliens invade the earth on the third day of his presidency?

Kerry didn't "fight" because he lost and he knew it.

Obama won't have that problem.

[gmoney]

61. Kerry didn't want to get his damn hair mussed...

Ohio couldn't have been more obviously stolen if guys in black hats and bandanas with Remingtons were at each polling station, but Kerry folded like a cheap lawnchair just because the MSM said to.

[tritsofme]

79. Well if that's the case, that Kerry just "folded"

when he was the obvious rightful winner and he knew it, then he probably wasn't fit to be president.

Or...John Kerry doesn't live in a world governed by conspiracy theories and boogeyman. While I don't particularly care for Senator Kerry, I would tend to think that from his life story, he would obviously fight if he thought the election was stolen from him.

The reason no Democrats talk about massive vote fraud and "Stolen Election 2004" is because it is all a fantasy.

[grace0418]

63. You actually believe Kerry lost fair and square?

I do agree with you that Obama won't have that problem because his margin of victory will be way past what the GOP is able to steal.

[babylonsister]

3. He's already fighting. He has a lot of lawyers out there already,

my dear Peggy!And if no one assures you of this, I will.

And congrats on being published!!!:hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. My dear babylonsister!

I hadn't realized about his lawyers!

And I must say I'm not the least little bit surprised!


Thank you, sweetie...I'm still in shock! :hug:

[magdalena]

49. One of his surrogates today on MSNBC even mentioned it.

The conversation was about election fraud, and the Obama surrogate (I forget his name) mentioned that immediately after his TV appearance he was off to attend a training seminar on election fraud and voter suppression retaliation.

Here is an article about Obama's Voter Protection Program. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/21/211552/700/185/605957

[Richardo]

9. The number I heard was 5,000

They're not letting anything to chance :patriot:

[gblady]

24. that's the number....

I heard a while back also...
I remember Barack saying once that Gore won the election...
I don't think he has any doubt but that they will try...
and I think he will fight for all he's worth if he thinks
something illtoward is going on.

He did not work this hard to lie down and take any BS.
JMHO!

[tekisui]

5. He and his 60-75 million supporters will fight,

until it is reclaimed.

I don't doubt it. And, they "vote counters" know it too. It won't be stolen this time. All hell would break loose.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

I'm inclined to agree with you about hell breaking loose...

I might even be there too...

[tekisui]

17. I will go to DC and sit, until it is righted.

But, I do not for one second think that the reaction in the cities would be peaceful. It would be civil unrest that this generation hasn't witnessed.

[Window]

51. Yep. From sea to shining sea.

[knixphan]

6. HARD.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

20. YES!

[sellitman]

7. If it is stolen he will be with us rioting in the streets.

You won't ever see an angrier population in your lifetime.

Let's hope it doesn't happen.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

31. Yup.

On all counts...

Especially on hoping it doesn't happen...

[NYC_SKP]

10. My dear CaliforniaPeggy!

I'm quite confident that he's working exactly hard enough to prevent such an outcome, partly through legal and educational actions, but also by ensuring wins in states that would offset losses where fraud is most likely.

However, should the election be stolen, I'm equally confident that Obama, with the support of millions of legislators, jurists, and common Americans, will take every measure to overturn the results or otherwise rectify the awful situation.

Precisely what he might or should do is hard to say as it would depend entirely on what happened and where it happened.

Big Hug! :hug:

[Historic NY]

12. Obama assembles a 5000 lawyer law firm for Election Day

<snip>
In Florida, Democratic lawyer Charles H. Lichtman has assembled almost 5,000 lawyers to monitor precincts, assist voters turned away at the polls and litigate any disputes that can't be resolved out of court.

``On Election Day, I will be managing the largest law firm in the country, albeit for one day,'' said Lichtman, 53, a Fort Lauderdale corporate lawyer and veteran of the five-week recount after the 2000 election when Florida eventually delivered the presidency to George W. Bush.
<snip>


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=a.hk4HvCkpiE

[CaliforniaPeggy]

19. Thank you for that link!

That is most reassuring!

We sure have one hell of an intelligent candidate, don't we? I always knew it...

[Ian David]

13. It depends on whether James Carville stabs in in the back. n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

21. Can you explain this connection?

I'm puzzled here...

[Doremus]

32. I believe the poster is referring to 2004

Kerry was considering contesting the Ohio vote because of the number of reported irregularities, provisional ballots cast, etc. Carville informed his wife, who gave a heads up to Kkkarl and the thugs. They promptly notified Kerry that if he didn't concede by Wednesday morning * would give his victory speech and in general make his life a living hell until he did.

Anyway, that's the sequence of events as I recall them.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

34. Thanks!

What a dark and terrible time that was.

[Rocknrule]

14. It'll be more than just a few hundred people with "Hail to the Thief" signs

I hope

[CaliforniaPeggy]

22. I have no doubt that it would be more...

[grannylib]

15. He's already fighting. And if we have to join him, I am ready! I have

already told our HR department at work, and my family, quite seriously, that they can expect not to see me for as long as it takes if the fuckers try to steal this one. I'll be out there as Ms. Molly suggested, and as Bill Maher wonders why we're not...with pitchforks, pots and pans, chained to the Capitol building or SOMETHING...I'll go wherever I need to go, on hands and knees if necessary...
Not. This. Time.
We'll either be GIVEN our country back, or we're TAKING it back. One way or the other.
But the fucking rePigliCons are NOT STEALING IT FROM US.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

23. I'm with you, my dear grannylib...

Not. This. Time.

[HopeFor2006]

16. It definitely could happen!

This morning's talk shows were frightening. "The race is tightening, you can't believe the polls because they are controlled by the left", stories of election fraud (Acorn)... they are preparing their audiences for an upset.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

25. It could happen, indeed...

But remember that the talk shows are in the business of whipping up their customers...

They are often not truthful...

I would take anything they say with a grain of salt.

[HopeFor2006]

28. I do take it with a grain of salt...

But wondering if they are preparing the country to accept that McCain could still win legitimately.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

33. I suspect that they are trying to do that...

They have some fight left in them, still...

[zonkers]

18. Dear Peg, I double dare them to try and steal it. If they do, I have utmost confidence in O to

for us.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

27. I too have confidence in him.

But, the little nagging voice keeps on in my head...

This thread has helped still that damned voice!

[Overseas]

64. They've been doing that for months and have had some successes.

The GOP has purged hundreds of thousands of voters from the rolls already. Luckily, some of those attempts have been stopped, and some people have checked their registrations and re-established themselves.

The DOJ attorney firings were about election manipulation by the GOP. Bush Justice Dept was trying to push trumped up cases of voter registration fraud against ACORN and those attorneys who refused to take those cases for lack of evidence were fired. That shows Republican intent to create the ACORN diversion months ago. They'd hoped to have legal cases backing up their claims. They didn't get those so they just created a PR news storm as the GOP knows how to do, with the support of the consolidated conservative media.

There have been the old GOP misdirection robocalls and robofliers already.

There will probably be the 2004 techniques again-- position Republicans at Democratic precincts' polling places to challenge voter registration validity. They know full well that they will be fine. But the checking slows things down and that's the goal. Slow down the voting to reduce the Democratic vote count by those who can't stay in line for hours.

For a calm, comprehensive documentary on the subject: Stealing America: Vote by Vote.
www.stealingamericathemovie. com

SO WE NEED AN AVALANCHE TO VOTE IN ORDER TO GET OUR LANDSLIDE.

[Rocknrule]

26. If this election is stolen, it will be Strike 3 for democracy

Obama won't let them get away with it.

In fact, after he serves 2 terms, Gore and Kerry should each be given 2 terms as well to compensate for being robbed by *

[CaliforniaPeggy]

29. I like your ideas!

I think Gore and Kerry would jump at the chance to be presidents!

:D

[Hekate]

35. This email from the campaign gives me such hope! -->

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7616078

babsbunny
I emailed Obama for America about our votes being stolen, here's what they said:

Dear Friend,

Thank you for contacting us, and for sharing your concerns about voter protection. We’ve
seen what’s happened in past elections and we have a clear message:

Not This Time.

We’re running the largest election protection operation in American history. We’re not
waiting until Election Day; we’ve already been on the ground for months and we hope
you’ll sign up to join us at the link at bottom. <snip>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NOT THIS TIME! :bounce:

I am beginning to think we should chill out. Do what we can, contribute, contact the campaign through the several links in that letter -- but chill out and stop getting ulcers.

Hekate

[CaliforniaPeggy]

37. Thank you!

I'm not in the habit of expressing my fears...

But tonight I just felt like throwing it out there...

No ulcers here, thanks!

:bounce: :bounce:

[paparush]

56. If they've been on the ground for months..which I truly hope they have been..

can they give us a clue as to what has been done in response to the reported cases of vote flipping during early voting?

For the last two weeks, I've lost track of the number of stories that have surfaced about touch screen machines flipping votes in favor of the Republicons.

I'd like to know the Obama camp's response as I haven't gotten any emails highlighting their actions.

[Hekate]

65. Write directly to the campaign and ask them. Then post their response. Please.

All I did was pass along what another DUer did--she wrote to them and then posted their reply, which seemed to indicate that they are well aware of what is going on and are on top of it. I'm extrapolating from that, and am choosing to stop having heart attacks at this time.

Hekate

[chookie]

36. Hard, plus America will fight too

Gore was hamstrung when it was done to him, Kerry gave up without a fight.

I backed Hillary because I knew I could rely on her for a fight.

I am now 100% behind our candidate. He won me over when, in addition to that intellect and that temperament, he made it very clear that he was in this to win.

The Obama campaign team seems to have absorbed the lessons of the last two election thefts and injustices, and won't let it happen again. I am optimistic that, if he does not win by a significant majority, that he will contest the fascist blood suckers and their brown shirts. We're not caught off guard again.

I remember in 2000, when people like me were jumping up and down on fire shouting for everyone to take action because the election had been stolen by very wicked people who were going to destroy the country and leave the world in ruins, the attitude was, oh well, that's how the cookie crumbles -- let's see how this Bush guy does.

There will NOT be that complacency this time. We do not have the luxury this time. Dick Cheney ascended from Hell with his toy monkey in a time of peace and prosperity, so it wasn't a big deal for people. And see where it got them! Now -- we're in two sick wars, with more on the way, the global economic system has collapsed, and America is heading to the Second Great Depression. People are losing jobs, homes, prospects, savings -- they're going to be more riled up.

And last time, we were voting against Bush. But this time, we are all behind Obama. We're all in trouble, and he has emerged as the clear choice to lead the country. Our way of life hangs in the balance. Passions are very high for Barack Obama. Every sane Republican is solidly behind him too. It's an intellectual choice -- knowing he's the leader for these times, and it's an emotional choice -- the security in our hearts that "that one" is going to be in the White House handling things in this time of crisis. McCain and Palin have been some kind of bizarre sideshow we've had to put up with and are irrelevant. Bush is passing away. We have so far to go, and it's not even begun to bottom out, but "That One" will be a the helm.

I can't think about it without getting tears in my eyes. And me, the most cynical, gloomy Eeyore of all Democratic Underground.

Senator Obama is going to be here in Pittsburgh for a rally -- I am arriving early to get as close as I can, thogh it doesn't matter, and I am going to enjoy being part of a crowd of my fellow patriotic Americans, and bask in the presence of this great man, and breathe in hope for the first time in 8 years.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

39. Your points are well taken!

I'm too tired tonight to answer each of them, but I certainly agree!

And thank you for your very thoughtful, and well-expressed post!

:hi:

[GetTheRightVote]

38. This year it would be a huge mistake on the part of Repubs to steal

but they have gotten away with it 2 times now, hmmm.

I hope Obama is ready to fight because the time for it will be this year.

:bounce: :grr:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

40. There are a number of well-written responses here...

Where they explain how hard Obama will fight!

Read them, and feel better!

I know I do...

:hi:

[Bobbieo]

42. Obama is ready to fight and I'm certain Obama will have all the bases covered knowing

full well that George W. Bush will still be POTUS until January 21st. And we all know what a bastard Bush can be when things don't go his way!

[Eric J in MN]

43. I don't think he'll fight much if it's stolen.

We were hoping John Kerry would fight after the election and he conceded the day after.

[choie]

44. Gore only made a 'little fuss'? Gosh, wasn't there an actual, like, federal case about it?

I'm astonished at the depiction of Gore's painful fight as only a "little fuss."

Gore and his lawyers did everything they could for many weeks, including going to the highest court in the land. The only thing he backed down on, which I can understand holding against him, was his rejecting the objection of the Congressional Black Caucus to the Florida electoral votes when he was presiding over congress. But he must have felt it a conflict of interest to rule for himself; it was a terrible position for an honorable man to be in, and he clearly felt his presidency would seem illegitimate if gained in that way. Now we know there are worse things that could befall a presidency -- e.g. all the despicable things Bush has done to it -- but Gore lacked 20/20 foresight, and I think most of us did as well. For weeks he fought an unprecedented battle and he deserves full credit for that noble fight, dogged by pundits who called him a sore loser and doomed by corruption of Scalia and the four other justices who made a mockery of their sworn duty.

Kerry, I'll grant you. By then we knew what a disaster Bush was, and he should have fought harder. But it's clear his advisors (and Kerry himself) must not have thought the battle was winnable.

[olegramps]

52. I take exception to the legitimizing the Supreme Court's interference

I sent several telegrams to the Gore campaign encouraging him not to concede the election. He should have totally ignored the Supreme Court and told them emphatically that they had absolutely no jurisdiction over the election in Florida. Don't forget that the Republicans sent goons down to Florida that pounded on the walls and windows of the election headquarters to disrupt the counting and were not arrested. While the Republicans resorted to violent and illegal tactics, the Democrats sat silently on their hands and lost the election. Although I admire Gore he was wrong to concede and should have never abandoned the voters.

[JackBeck]

45. No one can have this much momentum and support without putting up a fair fight.

(BIG) If it does happen, he will be there for us. If Carville hadn't immediately discarded Kerry the way that he did, we may have seen a better fight from John.

[No Elephants]

46. A Constitutional law professor AND an attorney who specialized in voting rights. He fights. WE

insist he fights. We fight with him.

[win_in_06]

47. If he loses there will be riots that will make us forget Rodney King

[regnaD kciN]

48. What's wrong with you? Don't you remember 2000???

We all remember how little fuss was made by Gore and Kerry...

What planet were you living on? I remember that Gore contested the election through November and into mid-December, all the way to the Supreme Court. Once the SCOTUS stole it, then it was "game over." Like it or not, there simply aren't any avenues of appeal of a Supreme Court decision, no matter how ridiculous or corrupt it may be.

Oh, I suppose that a Democratic Senator could have challenged the certification of the Electoral College vote. But we did that in 2004, and what good did it do? Since, in January of 2001, Republicans had control of the Senate, any challenge would have only delayed the inevitable for a few hours while everybody made speeches, then the Senate would have voted to certify. And, even if it didn't, that would simply have meant the decision would be made by the House, which was even more under Republican control.

Sorry, but Gore took the challenge as far as he possibly could. That's scarcely "little fuss" to me.

[olegramps]

53. He could have refused to concede thereby delegitimizing Bush's presidency.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

67. Excuse me, but there's nothing wrong with me.

I was not nearly as politically involved then as I am now, so that's why my memory is hazy. I didn't belong to DU then, either.

I have no problem with you pointing out my poor memory; however, you might consider doing it in a less insulting way.

[Dinger]

50. Georgia Is Getting An Early Start (Big Surprise - NOT!)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/26/voter.suppression/index.html

He ought to go do a campaign appearance there. Fucking assholes down there.

[UrbScotty]

54. My dear CaliforniaPeggy...

You know how much I like Barack, and I think he's done a great job fighting for what's right - both inside and outside politics.

It's just that this is one of those areas where I would least expect anyone to put up much of a fight.

Maybe it's just me.

[paparush]

55. You mean how hard will he fight when the Neocons threaten his wife and children?

Got to think down to the lowest common denominator with these Republicons.

[riqster]

57. Obama is already playing it smart and tough

...but then, he has had time to learn from 2000 and 2004: the mistakes (and smart things) committed by Gore, Kerry, the Dems, the Reeps, and the courts.

By already focusing on voter registration, purges, and other issues as they arise, he is both laying the groundwork for any challenges that may be required later, AND putting Fraudsters on notice that we are watching them and will vigorously defend our right to vote(and to have those votes counted).

Gore and Kerry assumed that their opposition were decent, honorable men. Obama has no such illusions. That's the biggest difference.

[stillcool]

58. depends on what can be done..

if it's a matter of DRE's, nothing. You can't count votes that can't be counted. If it's anything that falls within the realm of the voter rights act, everything. As far as litigating in our individual states, I guess it would depend on our state election laws.

[Flabbergasted]

62. Yep that's about it....These issues are incredibly complicated....Obama could end up in a far worse

situation if he fights and ends up wrong or spun as a sore loser blah blah blah. The time will tick down quickly. Real uncontroversial proof and a solution would need to be gathered within a couple days to at most a week.

That said I don't think this election will be stolen.

[GoesTo11]

59. Lots of countries recently have reversed stolen elections

Ukraine. Zimbabwe. etc. There's a model.

[knixphan]

60. And the cameras will be on.

International community will play a role in the buzz, I think. Really bad PR if the pukes go for theft. The world already hates Bush.

[asksam]

66. I'm still worried that there won't be an election...

...especially with McLame losing in the polls. I would not be surprised if the Repugs engineer another 9/11 or similar event as an excuse to declare a state of emergency and not hold elections.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

68. That is one scenario that I'm quite sure will not happen.

Even Giulani tried to postpone NYC's elections after 9/11, and was shouted down. They proceeded without fuss.

This is not going to happen.

Bush wants out, anyhow.

[asksam]

69. Yeah, except...

... Guiliani could be overruled by the state or the feds if he stayed on. Bush can't. If challanged in court, he'll just issue a "Justice X has issued his ruling, now let's see him enforce it..." statement.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

72. I don't know enough to convince you...

But I really don't see this happening...

:shrug:

[asksam]

73. Hey I could be wrong...

... in fact, let's hope I am. But I still have a bad feeling about this.

[graywarrior]

70. Hell, in my little town we have lawyers already lined up and we

aren't expecting any problems here

[RagAss]

71. He won't have to.... We will !

[Life Long Dem]

74. Fight.

[HughMoran]

75. It'll mean war

Very civil war though ;)

[SurfingAtWork]

76. I think Gore did everything he could. When his VP (Holy Joe)

Went on TV and said that somesuch ballots should be counted, it really painted him into a corner.

[Orsino]

77. That may depend upon how hard *we* fight.

I could see him conceding "for the good of the nation" if there is not sufficient traction.

[Fire1]

78. The one thing Sen. Obama is doing that other candidates perhaps

didn't feel the need to do, is to be PRO-active instead of RE-active.

[JJ]

80. Won't be stolen

Haven't you noticed Obama throwing out the name Hagal every chance he gets.

Google Hagal and electronic voting, the first item leads back here to DU, but there are plenty of other sources.