My Church just went NUTS for McCAIN!!

[Heather MC]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok I attend a small homechurch. it's about 15 regular people. We meet in each others homes. And we communicate through emails and Meetup.com.

I love it, we all ge to share about God, and personal experiences, And how God has benefitted our life. It's a nice departure from the huge church I use to attend.

Well I have not looked at my email in days, I go to check it, and My inbox was flooded with emails like, "Would you vote for Obama if you knew this"

and then Would you vote for Obama if you knew he wrote this.

One email had a link discussing how he knocked all his competors off the ballots by LEGALLY challenging their signatures

then the other had exerts from Obama's book without any context, discussing how he had to deal with being biracial in a predominately white environment.

Then their was an email of a fellow Obama supporter asking that the McCain folks please stop it's divisive.

So the response to that was fine we will take Will's name off the list.

I am beyond upset, I have discussed my politics with a few people in the church who are for McCain, we have always had civial disagreements and ended with a hug and showing love for one another. But I would never use my churches email list to send out Anti McCain Information, Or Pro Obama information. It doesn't belong in my church. I am just crushed, because the emails where so hateful, and hate filled, that I don't even want to see the two guys who were leading the charge in this mess.

And again is a church off only 15 people. I cook for these people, I invite them in my home. Right now I am so upset that they think it's ok to do this.

Ok sorry for the vent I am just so upset right now, I have to go get my kids off to school!

[iamjoy]

1. That's So Sad

I'm not a spiritual or religious person, but I think stuff like that can backfire and drive people away from God.

Oh, the people who do it probably think they are doing "God's work" by helping McSame get elected, but, I think it just divides us more. Of course, if you were in a larger church it wouldn't just be a few e-mails amongst friends - in some cases religious leaders imply some one will go to hell if they vote for a "pro-abortion" candidate (or vote for a candidate who supports the "radical gay agenda" - you know, like equal rights)

It's really a shame. Religion should bring people together and lift them up, not divide them and tear them apart.

[bunkerbuster1]

2. It's REAL easy to make them stop.

...if anyone in this church is deducting contributions on their taxes, that is.

Seriously, blatant electioneering for one candidate (or party) over another is in direct violation of IRS regs. It's something that is rather forcefully discouraged on my own church's message boards/message lists.

[Heather MC]

24. Our Church is a simple home church we don't have a pastor, we don't tithe

we don't have specific building, we take turns using each others home. it very family oreinted and low key. they usely don't spend time talking about gays, and abortion, and evil this and that.

It's low key, we cook dinner for one other before each service. Most people kick their shoes off as soon as they walk in someone house, it's very low key

I don't feel "religous" when I am there

[AllentownJake]

3. God an Politics don't mix well

Probably why Jesus said give on to Caesar what is Caesar's and onto God what is God's.

Remind your friends of that.

[NJmaverick]

4. File a complaint with the IRS and the Seperation of church and state group

they violated the law.

[AllentownJake]

6. I doubt they have an IRS filing with 15 people

just sounds like a group of people who disagree over politics but agree on spiratual matters. I think we over react sometimes.

[NJmaverick]

10. If money is involved or collected

it's an IRS issue.

[AllentownJake]

11. Over reaction

15 people and an email list. I'm sure the IRS will be all over them. This is a personal disapointment for the OP not a federal tax issue.

[Heather MC]

28. thanks

[bunkerbuster1]

7. Or, just politely broach the topic--the church's members would be exposed

Blatantly pro-candidate or pro-party advocacy by churches is not illegal, but it does disqualify them from being considered charitable organizations and anyone reporting their contributions on their income tax forms could be subject to losing that deduction.

It's a pretty powerful incentive to keep these things out of official church business. Even in a 15-member church.

[Heather MC]

25. No laws were violated we are a small group, we don't tithe,

we don't have a "church building" or a pastor

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. That's Ridiculous. They Can Email Whatever They Want.

This wasn't inside the church. It was through personal email. What makes you think in a million years that violates the separation of church and state clause?

[Zuiderelle]

62. It's a mailing list and a group of people who meet in their homes.

Even if she were to despise them enough (which it's very clear from her OP that she does not) to do what you're suggesting, the IRS would ignore it.

Nobody violated any law here.

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

5. Some things better left

to the coffeeshop counter *after* church.

I will always remember my father picking himself and six kids up from the church pew, right in the middle of the service, when the Rev asked the congregation to pray to God that the Green Bay Packers win whatever game was going to be on that sunday afternoon. Why would God give a rat's arse about one sports team over another?

I think you need to stand by your principles, pipe up (their exclusion of non-agreeing members amounts to miniature fascism, a group for worship is no place for politics, etc.), and if you have to, find another home church group, and it's their loss.

[polichick]

8. Reminds me of a book club I was in...

...until I realized that the Christian members had no problem trashing any book that bothered their narrow sensibilities, but got completely bent out of shape if something they chose (Christian writing) was dissected like any other novel.

Sorry this happened to you ~ never pays to "cast pearls before swine" and these days in this country the swine are often church-goers.

[Hepburn]

9. IMO, you and the other Obama person need to start your own group

Sad, but true...if the others are supporting McCain and Palin, other than discussing religion, you have nothing in common with them.

[Heather MC]

27. I just left a church of almost 10 years because the pastor said "you don't give enough to volunteer

at this church" he was discussing researching tithing records of people on he helps ministry.

this Church was the polar opposite of that, no pastor, no tithing, no huge production. we just whorship in each others home. It's wonderful departure from the judgemental dictatorship of a huge church where only one person has a voice.

I am not ready to walk away from the church, but I fully intend to address this once I calm down.

if I wrote to them right now my email would start of with
"What the fuck is wrong with you asshats"

And it would go down hill from there
So I am going to find my peace first!

[Ian David]

12. I'd tell them that Jesus wants them to go fuck themselves.

If I were a Christian, I'd join either The Unitarian Universalists, or United Church of Christ.

[Heather MC]

37. If I were to respond to the bullshit right now, that's exactly what I would say!

I considered a Unitarian Church, but I wanted to get away from the dictoral One-voice tradition that exist in Churches.

In my church, there's no pastor, no tithing, no specific building, Usely you go to someone's home, walk in the door kick your shoes off, and we prepare dinner for for everyone.

I guess even a church of 15 has "fringe members"

the thing that trips me out is, they all know I am Pro Obama, the ones sending out the emails have never said a word about McLame, when they have seen me. I find that to be so cowardly, that's really what I hate.

I have had long conversations with a few members who are for McCain. We have even raised our voices but we end with hug and laugh, and no hard feelings. I would perfer a "say to my face" apporch than this chickenshit.

[GoneOffShore]

54. I think you'll find that the Unitarians are not "one-voice"

They can't even agree as to the brand of coffee after the service.

[Heather MC]

61. ha ha I would be of no use in that conversation my stance on Coffee is

I am not mature enough to drink coffee

[JustAnotherGen]

76. As goneofshore said

It's hard to get Unitarians to believe in any thing all at the same time. :rofl:

Did you know - Many of us (in the three I've attended / been a member of) - don't even identify AS Christians. Shocking I know! :-)


Free thought and different perspectives and the Unorthodox tends to be revered. Many of us who believe in a Human Being named Yeshua but don't believe in a Virgin Birth, the 'three' spirits, and especially the Creed are very comfy in the Unitarian Church.

Even if you just need a 'break' - come visit us some Sunday. I'm sure you will find you would be very welcome.

Oh wait! We do believe in one thing universally.

Pot Luck Suppers! :rofl: You would fit right in! :pals:

Anyhoo - sorry you have to experience that toxicity.

[No Elephants]

13. Send your own email, stating your feelings, or have a meeting, or find a new church or start one.

[faithfulcitizen]

63. I agree, I think if OP writes a heartfelt e-mail that wasn't divisive and expressed OP's concerns,

OP would feel better. Maybe even open some minds in the process. My church broke my heart too. But in the end, I can't worship God with hateful people, so you have to decide if they are worth fighting for or just moving on.

[Overseas]

73. Send your own email, perhaps using CC Goldwater's reasons McShame has lost her vote.

Or find some Christian evangelicals that support Obama because he is far more compassionate than McCain plans to be.

You could just single out his plans to tax medical benefits as seeming un-Christian to you.

Or his plans to cut $800 billion from Medicare and Medicaid.

Perhaps you believe Christ would want us to take care of the least among us and Democrats have done that best in the past and Obama's plans reflect that best today, with most people getting a tax cut while the very rich top 5 percent will be asked to pay a bit more.

Perhaps you respect other religions too and want them all to be free to worship in their own way like your prayer group does.

[mmonk]

14. I would say to them that you believe in separation of church and state

because that is what religious liberty is and you think their actions inappropriate and leave it at that.

[Vinca]

15. If they're sending you the lying, hateful emails, I'd question THEIR faith.

As an atheist, I just don't understand the number of "Christians" who believe the message of Jesus had more to do with McMansions and tax breaks for the rich than feeding, sheltering and clothing the poor. Your fellow church members should be ashamed of themselves.

[Perky]

16. As a person of faith. I think you have to challenge them

It is fine for them to support McCain, but when they start pushing believers away because of their political views they are not being very Christian.

Is the pastor involved in these discussions?

If he isn't he needs to be told how you feel.

If he is then he needs to be challenged straight up. Politics is a poor subsitute for revival.

[mtnester]

17. Remember, where two or more gather in his name....

you can still have a religious group with the Obama supporters...break away if you must, your group can grow

I personally love small group worship and discussion.

It appears the others do not care if they destroy your worship group dynamic or not...so do you really REALLY need them around?


on edit, unfortunate omission of a consanant...in other words, a typo :)

[blue-kite]

18. I am not religious (at least not now) but you have to ditch these guys.

They are more than wrong.

[Vinnie From Indy]

19. What in the world are you doing worshipping with these idiots?

At the end of the day, how Christian can these people be if they spread hate and lies about Obama?

[blueknight]

22. i used to go to church faithfully

until the election when clinton beat old man bush. i couldnt believe the hatred the minister and the rest of the deacons and church officers showed toward clinton. i have not been back since

[Ganja Ninja]

20. Well I guess God must agree with you or otherwise McCain would

be leading in the polls. Maybe you should point that out to them.

[zeemike]

21. I would remind them of the forth commandment

"Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"
And unless they have witnessed Obama doing the things they claim then they are guilty of disobeying that commandment.
And I think that your church group should read from the book of Mathew more often...thouse are the words of Jesus and if they can't abide them then they should not call themselves Christians.

[mwb970]

That must be truly heartbreaking for you.

You would think that a small, intimate church group could manage to stay away from hate speech and lies. Apparently not. And these are the people you thought you could turn to for support.

I'm spiritual but not a churchgoer, and nothing I read on this board or elsewhere makes me want to change that. It's very easy to get the impression that "church people" are mostly hateful right-wing ideologues who will believe any lie as long as it fits their prejudices. But part of me says that this can't possibly be true, despite your experience. Are there churches or denominations, however large or small, that have remained completely untouched by right-wing taint? There must be!

[Perky]

23. ARRRRRRGGHHHHHH. You do not need to leave this fellowhip...or file an IRS complai

You need to confront them with the love of Jesus and STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE.

NEVER EVER sacrifice what you believe on the alter aof expedience or anger.

They need to know they hurt you.

[liberal1973]

26. That's not a church

Sounds like something from a episode of Sanford and Son.B-)

[Heather MC]

30. ha ha ha I Love Sanford and Son,

I love that my church is not traditional.
No pastor, no tithing, no dictatorship of only hearing from one voice.

for the last 6 moonths, we have just takening turns sharing our testimony, each person gets an evening to tell about their Journey, that would never happen in a huge church.
And I felt it was bringing us closer together as a family, getting to know each other on such an intitmate level.

I formaly attended an 8,000 member church for almost 10 years, I rarely spoke to anyone outside of the church.

This church we have partied together, prayed together, cried together. I am just in shock that this was going on, and only one person ask that they stop.

[mscuedawg]

29. I had a similar experience on Sunday....

I went back to PA this weekend and as always when there, attended the church that I have considered my "home church" for the past 7 years. My first experience Sunday was talking to a friend who was worried about "other religions" over taking the Christianity of America. Unsuccessfully, I reminded my friend that the Constitution gives us freedom of religion, to her deaf ears. Saddened, I went into the sanctuary only for my frustration to build...

The Pastor warned that he wouldn't name candidates names b/c he didnt want "spies" to turn him into the IRS...but he continued on about abortion and even used the air quotes when speaking of a mother's health. I cried. I couldn't believe my ears. This was a church that I chose over a church that I had grown up in when humanity began to overtake God's word...and here I was listening to this....

We always go out to dinner after with friends from the congregation. Sometimes the Pastor goes with us, this day, he did not. A member of the congregation looked at me and said "You didn't like what Pastor said today, did you?" I told him I did not. I also said that voting on a candidate based on ONE SOCIAL issue is IRRESPONSIBLE. That I have not made my choice based on his views on abortion, but on healthcare, jobs, our economy, and for MY family, McCain is very unaware of the middle class.

He asked if I was "pro-abortion"...and I told him that NO ONE is pro-abortion...I told him that I was "pro-life" before I had my daughter and NOW am pro-choice, b/c my GOVT WILL NOT tell my daughter what she can or cannot do with her body ...if she were raped at 14 or if her life is in danger (I do not condone abortion for birth control purposes). I also told him that if he wanted abortion to be illegal...he had better be willing to come up with resources for something other than abstinence AND more so, for those babies that are born...

Oh and I threw in that until he grew a uterus, he really had no right to tell me, who has carried a child (out of wedlock and by MYSELF) for almost 10 months :) what I can do with MY body....

I love this place and any other time during the year, I can go and feel very loved and welcomed and I receive God's comforting word.

But I had to write and tell you that I have had a similar experience.

:hug: Remember...I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me (Phil. 4:13) Keep the Faith! :hug:

[Heather MC]

33. Thank you, I need this.

I am just shocked because, what I love about my church is that it is non traditional.
There's no Pastor, everyone has a voice, therefore we get to know each other on a more intimate level.

One of the guys leading the charge, he and I would often talk after our meetings and start singing together songs that just inspired us. I never knew he would be like this. I don't hide my support for Obama at church, but I have NEVER sent out emails, supporting Obama or Bashing McCain.

Honestly if they sent out emails that were Pro McCain I would not be so bother. But this was nuts, I was more shocked by the silence of the other members, only one Complained.

I am not ready to walk away, I have become emotionally connected to this people, and my 6 year old told me once his 2 favorite things are church and spongebob, in the order. He never said that about our former church he hated it. And I wouldn't force him to go if he didn't want. my mother use to do that to me. It made me hate Church. so I loved the My son enjoys the time he is with them as well.

I will meditate on the scripture you reminded of, and find peace in that
thank you

[mscuedawg]

36. I'm so glad that it brought you peace....I dont think you need to leave the church...

This is just another trial and tribulation that we need to lean on our faith for strength. Remember...there IS a division btwn church and state! perhaps the people that kept silent are on "your side" in the political fight, but not strong enough to welcome the conflict.

I, too, walked right in to church with my "YES WE CAN" button on my purse...just as I have had it for months since I got it!

I think that one thing "nonbelievers" dont grasp about our religion is that there is no concrete evidence that we can "prove" our religion with. Personally, the fact that God's word gives me peace and makes me feel that there is a place for me if I live a good life based on my FAITH ... that's really all I need!

And about the emails...I am so with you. I have been receiving all the hate and scare-tactic emails about Obama for months now...I have never once taken an article that I have found about McCain or Palin and routed it as an email...to me, it is stooping to their level. I have; however, debunked every single false email that I have received about Obama...and I wont mince words...I have pissed off ALOT of people doing that! (I always reply all...lol) I've even written a letter to the editor of the Cleveland paper in response to the hateful racist slurs heard at the M/P rallies after having to explain to my 8 y/o why they were saying "kill him"....Another mom wrote in the same day and made the comment "Silence in the face of hatred is NOT fit to lead!"

I'm rambling, but for probably the first time in my adult Christian life (and I think b/c I'm a mom) ...I am seeing what it is with religious PEOPLE (please blame the messengers!!!!) that frightens people away and its very, very sad. I wish everyone were to receive the peace that I find in God!!! : )

have a great day!!! :hug:

[Heather MC]

43. No one can turn me away from God.

I went through a period in my life where I didn't believe God existed. I use to stay up late with some atheist friends of mine, discussing how God, didn't exist, and how people were stupid for believing he did.

But then things happened to me that could only have happened because of a higher power, and not because I had a thing to do with it. Simple things and huge things, and also, I thought Happens would be the perfect Job, wonderful marriage, babies, and house.

When I got all that, I still was HAPPY, like within HAPPY. For my acknowledging God fills that Void I felt I was missing. And now I am truely HAPPY. I am at peace.

When I first read those emails, I was stunned. I am calming down, and I fully intend to address them. But I am a face to Face person, and I believe like Obama believes "Say it to my face"

I am not a fighter, I am a confronter, I can do it with smile, and calmly explain why I find it insulting. And cowardly, the two guys sending out the emails have never once mentioned they were for anyone.

We will fix this, I am confident of that

[mscuedawg]

47. Your post made me smile!

All we have to remember is God is in control, right!!! : )

[Heather MC]

53. So true, in the end this election doesn't have thing to do with God's leadership!

I just found out my Church family has been addressing these emails in a positive way
So my anger and upsetness (is that a word) is subsiding

[LiberalFighter]

31. Just to pick a point with them if given a chance. How was it wrong to legally remove candidates?

The point being that Obama did it the legal way while his primary opponents ran illegally. You would think that everyone would only want candidates on the ballot that had followed the law.

[Heather MC]

35. I find that to be the dumbest thing of all. When Obama used the law to challenge the signatures

of his opponents, I am sure it put a spotlight on his signatures as well.
I don't fully get how people consider that a negative, that Obama exposed those politians for being illegal. Isn't that Mavericky? And Standing up to his party, and fighting the "ole boy network?

It's America, you know, people are free to be stupid

[LiberalFighter]

78. Yep... The idea should be that candidates follow the law.

[Heather MC]

83. Umm McLame can't even follow a law he co-authored,

The campaign finance reform law
Feingold/McCain
well apparently people are filing a lawsuit against the RNC and McLame for buying Failin's clothes
Some lil ditty about, Campaign funds not to be used for personal use
opps

[hlthe2b]

32. It is good for you to vent, but we are not the ones you need to

talk to..... If you enable this behavior and do nothing, as you did when your friend Will tried to take a stand, what do you expect to happen? He took a stand and got no support from you. How do you think HE feels?

They are not going to change on their own.... So what will you do?

[Heather MC]

34. I did send an email mass email saying this is nuts, don't send me this crap

I didn't back my friend up because I have not read my emails in a few days.
I also sent a private email to person who got this group started.

I have not sent out a scathing email just because to be honest it would be filled with a bunch of "fuck yous" and "go to hells"

I am not afraid to voice my discord trust me.

However the other problem is when he sends a mass email it also goes to people who have Joined our Meet-up group but I have not come to a meeting yet. On Meet-up we have 50 members

I would rather face them in person and voice my disgus, in front of the 15 active members, than have to envolve the 40 or so Meetup memebers who may get turned off by all this nonsense

[hlthe2b]

38. What do you think will happen when you confront them in peron?

Would Will (and perhaps others) step up too to "confront" what has been happening?


I suspect there will be a few that are shamed by this when you do speak from the heart on the effect it is having on you. 'Hope you'll come back and let us know.

[frickaline]

42. Have someone else write the letter with you

to make sure you don't go too far. But you still clearly need to write this letter as you seem quite hurt and upset.

[IsItJustMe]

40. I would inform my fellow brothers and sisters that I keep my political opinions to myself and that I

would consider it respectful to me that they did the same.

Then I would say a prayer:

Lord, forgive them of their ignorance, and while you are at it Lord, forgive me of my ignorance.

Humility, love and forgiveness is a great combination.

[Erin Elizabeth]

41. Tell them how you feel.

Tell them just what you said here, maybe with a few changes. That you've loved being able to share with others and being respectful and this hatefulness has no place in your tiny church and you don't want to see an election tear you apart. Speak from your heart but tell them how you feel!

And I'm sorry. I know how this feels....

[FSogol]

44. Time to find a better church. n/t

[beandoc]

45. I received a ridiculous anti-Obama e-mail from a guy in my church yesterday

I was very upset when I first read it. It was the stuff of small minds and even smaller hearts. It felt beneath everything I know to be Christian. I feel for you in your situation.
I have thought long and hard about what to do. I plan to sit down and talk with him about it face to face. It's easy to get into a pissing match in e-mails and it is difficult to convey disliking someone's actions without compromising how you feel about the person. It won't be easy.
Threatening your church members with the IRS or calling them a "bad christian" may feel good and may even win the argument, but it will put your fellow church members on the defensive and won't have the long term effect you desire. I think the best way to approach it is to somehow let them know that you think they are better than the e-mails that are being passed around; that bearing false witness (even if their heart were in the right place) is beneath them.
As far as the abortion issue is concerned, check out www.matthew25.org and click on the pro-life Obama facts. It has some good stuff.
I'm working on my parents (my dad is a pastor). he's voted for W twice but I think they're going for Obama this year.
Good luck.

[The Stranger]

46. Fuck them and find a new church group.

[Every Man A King]

48. I don't understand why

you don't respond with your own anti-McSame emails. He cheated/dumped his wife when she got in an accident.

[Heather MC]

55. I could but that would start a war. A war only begins after Counterattack and I believe in

Diplomacy first!

[Bragi]

49. You should question why you need "church" at all

Since you asked, here's my gratuitous advice:

Your current church group has shown you their true, toxic, underlying values. These values won't likely change, and you will no longer find happiness in their midst. Move on.

You are more far likely to find people who truly share your values by volunteering at a (non-religious) homeless shelter, or an AIDS hospice, than you will at any religion-based "church", however new-agey a particular grouping might seem.

Learn to relish and nurture your own spiritual well-being in a way that doesn't require validation by an assembly of others.

Peace.

- B

[Heather MC]

51. I appreciate your "Gratuitous advice" and let me say

My church does volunteer,

I personally give my time to help others all the time. I have done for years it's just in me to do.
But I also feel a need to assemble with people who share my views about God. Not because I am forced to but because it's in my heart to do so.

Since I posted this I found out some things that have encouraged me about my church
One the guy didn't send out a mass email to ALL the members, just a select few
More than one person asked them to knock it off.
So the issue is being addressed.

I don't attend church just to go it's a very personal thing for me, I don't even do it to please God, I do it because I feel called to do so.

Be well thanks

[Trajan]

50. My church had coffee and pie ....

Oh ... wait ... I dont have a church ...

But I did have coffee and pie .....

[Heather MC]

58. I'm not mature enough to drink Coffee, but I love Pie!

[marions ghost]

52. Sometimes

you find out things about people you'd rather not know. But you've also seen the truth about them. So that's important information. Do not doubt that these emails are mean-spirited and insensitive to you. You are smart not to brush this off and absorb these folks' negativity.

Somehow you will have to communicate your feelings to the other members, and then let the chips fall. You seem strong enough to do that effectively and you will get the respect of some of the others for it. Some people need to learn where the boundaries are to understand that others are not their doormats. They are not "doing unto others as they would have done to them." They are behaving miserably to you, as humans will do.

Obama supporters might get some "backlash" like this when he wins. We should expect it.

If it doesn't work out after you have given it your best, find friends who are more on your wave and start a new group, as others here suggest. Have the courage to do that if necessary. This is a polarized country. Kumbaya doesn't always work. Protect yourself emotionally.

Just my 2 cents, coming more from psychology than Christianity, but the spirit of expecting mutual respect is the same.

[Beacool]

56. I'm sorry to see you so upset.

I don't think that it was appropriate for your fellow parishioners to interject politics in their emails. Maybe you should talk to your pastor or the person in charge of the prayer group. People have a right to their political beliefs, but there's a place for everything and work and church are no it.

If you're close enough to the two guys who sent the emails you could talk to them and let them know how upsetting their emails were to you. Regardless, don't let a few people sour you on the group as a whole.

Good luck!!!

[uponit7771]

57. Send an email refuting these alegations, people don't know because others don't speak up

[graywarrior]

59. It's a personal letdown resulting in feelings of betrayal and abandonment and

I am so sorry you are experiencing that right now.

[hamsterjill]

60. God works in mysterious ways!

From your post, it appears to me that you are sincere in your desire to fellowship with other Christians, etc.

Sometimes it takes a while for people to truly be revealed for who they really are at their core. Have you ever considered that this might be your opportunity to see these people in their true element?

In my opinion, people who perpetuate hate under the throngs of religion are not the real McCoy! I'm weary of the Christian extremists, in particular, being allowed to get away with hate mongering under the guise of religion without someone calling their hand on what they are doing.

I can't speak to what you should or should not do about this situation, but I'm happy that there are individuals like you who can still see through the hypocrisy.

[Heather MC]

64. Since I first posted my Letter,

One of my friends from my Church called me after I sent her an email letting her know privately I was not happy about this. She let me know More than one person sent the guys an email to knock it off

And I apreciated that they are on top of this issue.

The most shocking thing was that neither one of these guys have ever mad their political feelings known to my knowledge. I don't hide my support for Obama, and as I said they are a few who don't hide their suppor for McCain, but it's always respectful, and even when we discuss in a group, people have open talked about both sides, without anger or hatered.

I have calmed down since I first posted this.
Thanks for your response

[mamalone]

65. Awww.... honey...

:hug: I so feel for you...

I don't go to a home church, but to a small Baptist church. The folks there are so loving and Godly- for example over the Columbus Day holiday the men were all over here repairing my roof and back steps. I am a single mom and keeping up with these types of things is near to impossible.. in fact it would be impossible if it weren't for the help of these wonderful folk. I love them and they love me and my kids. We are all like family. Except for one thing... politics:(

They are pretty much all Repubs. When Palin was selected they were all aglow over her wonderful-ness and while they don't adore McCain, they think his policies are "more in line with scripture" than Obama's. It's heartbreaking to me to have people I love so much and agree with so much feel so differently from me on these issues. At times I have wished I could go to a more progressive church in terms of political views, but then I know I would disagree with them on spiritual issues. It is hard.

If it's any comfort... your post is a comfort to me. Just knowing that I am not alone in this position does help.:hug:

[Bluenorthwest]

66. They don't bash gays-usually

But you sit there when they do. And that says it all for me. Apostacy and a room filled with vipers.
Tell me, how much minority bashing is too much for you? What is the magic amount that lets you sit and nod along, and what would make you take a stand? Your church does not 'usually' attack my family, but when they do, you cook 'em dinner anyway. Got you.
You seem to make much about the freedom of this group, but frankly you are acting as if you are not free to speak up at all. You seem supressed, and it seems the so called church is making you feel less than content as an Obama supporter. Hard for me to understand why you like it so much if you are so miserable and they attack good people, even if that is not 'usual' it is still wrong. You just are not happy there. That is a good sign for you. Get out while you can.

[Heather MC]

69. I never said they bash gays, did I?

If I did it mis-typed.
This was shocking for me because it's never happened before in my church.

I have found out since posting this, that more than one person let the guys know this was not appreciated. I think it can be worked out.

I am not one to take off running everytime things get tough. I will boldly explain to these people why I am not happy with what was said. However, if I had responded at the height of my anger, I would have ended up making a fool of myself. Because I didn't have all the information at the time.

I didn't know more than one person asked them to stop. I didn't know there had been discussion with the people sending out the emails.

I will freely speak, to their face, and the only thing I will hold back is my choice of words. I was ready to cuss them all out. I will express my anger but in a measured way, that I get my point across with dignity. I am for dipolmacy not war especially in church

[Bluenorthwest]

74. Thanks for being more civil than I am

Here is the quote that set me off -"they usely don't spend time talking about gays, and abortion, and evil this and that." I assumed that meant they sometimes do.

[Heather MC]

75. My bad total miss use of words on my part.

I was trying to say, I don't go to a church like that. you know the Fundie churches that use "god" as an excuse to be prejudice and racist

[liberalpress]

72. Posts like yours and the OP

make me more grateful for my home church with evry read. It is a group of believers on all marks of the scale from evange,icals to just observers.I am personal friends with both Democrats and Republicans in the church and we agree to respectfully disagree about politics. All are welcome and there is one openly gay member of our governing body. Not all members are hpaay about that, but are accepting. It is good to know that not all churches are like the ones that seem to get the most publicity

[pipi_k]

67. OK so....

post all their emails here and some of us will return the favor.


I'm sure there are some interesting things to tell them about McCain's friendship with Satan...

hee hee

:evilgrin:

[Heather MC]

68. No no no I am an not about to send the DU army after someone in my Church

My church is toooo tiny to be under seige!
:rofl:

I have found out since posting this
that more than one person asked the guys to knock it off in a loving Godly way.
Me personally I was ready to cuss them out. I am Christian, but I am not a good one.
I will lay someone out in a minute!

But I did find out, that it's being dealt with, so I am feeling better about this nonsense

[sampsonblk]

70. This is a great opportunity for you!

The next time you invite them over, be ready to teach. You lucky dog. This is your moment!

All you have to do is respond politely to all those points that they made in their email. Then ask the question: Why would someone tell us these false things? What does someone have to gain by telling us falsehoods? Someone thinks that becuase we are christians, they can get us to believe these things. Who are they? Why did they pick us? What do they hope to gain by this? And finally, will we allow them to do this to us?

Its your responsibility to be a leader. To do the right thing. Rather than being disruptive (or worse, silent) you have a responsibility to bring the truth to drown out the lies.

[ismnotwasm]

71. I'm so sorry about your experience

My impression is certain churches, especially non-denominational free-Evangelical types (not that this describes your church) are feeling extremely threatened. Somehow, the fundamentalists developed a sense of political entitlement through what they think is "god" I suppose. They've pushed a pretty radical agenda, with polarizing results. It's how we ended up with an ugly uncompassionate incompetent like Palin. She talks the talk. Walking the walk? She'd probably do that as well, which is equivalent to telling the nation "While it's true I've got mine here on earth, you all will have to wait a while get your reward in Heaven, Praise the Lord"

I'm agnostic/atheist but I'm fortunately enough to have met people of faith who share the same values of loving compassion, concern for the environment, a goal of ending all wars, the end of bigotry and discrimination of all kinds, the end of world poverty, for example. I don't presume to say who is of genuine faith or not, and these friends of mine are from religions as varied as Christian, Muslim, Buddhists or Sikh's.

You sound like a person of that caliber, and it also sounds like what they call a time of trial I believe. Hang in there, progressives everywhere need you.:hug:

[Heather MC]

80. Thanks, I have been on a spiritual Journey most of my Adult Life

I once use to believe God didn't exist, or more to the point, I was never "good enough" to be Godly,
my mother raised me on one of those religions that is filled with so many dos and don'ts their is no room for God IMO.

So I understand that wether you choose to believe in God or not, it's a personal journey, and not one someone can force you into. Just like with Political views.

Thanks for considering me one of the good guys, I would hate it, if someone thought of me as a "bible thumper" :rofl:

I found out after I posted this, that the other people in my church did ask the 2 guys to stop.
I feel more encouraged now, than I did when I first read the emails.

They all know I am an Obama supporter, but I have never used emailed the church or even individals stuff about Obama, I just don't believe this drama belongs in church.

thanks for the :hug:
:loveya:

[GrizzlyMan]

77. If you lay down with dogs you get fleas

I'm not sure what you should have been expecting.

[wildeyed]

79. I am so sorry.

How is Will doing? It is such a small church, if they kick out all the Obama supporters and everyone who supports the Obama supporters, there probably won't be many left.

I belong to a few parenting listservs. There have very strict rules about discussing politics and for good reason. If you decide to continue with this church, you should insist that they institute a policy against posting political opinions. Pick the fairest person to moderate the site. They can delete political posts and put people who do it repeatedly on moderation, meaning that the mod approves their posts individually before they post to the group site.

[TragedyandHope]

81. If they can't agree to have a civil disagreement, then you should find a new Church group

Ask yourself if that's really Christian behavior? You should try to talk to them and see if they will at least concede to respecting your opinion without casting you and other Obama supporters out.

I don't want to count my chickens before they're hatched, but there is a good chance Obama will be their next President. It sounds like they will have a long way to go before accepting that. Maybe you can help them through their period of adjustment and refresh their Christian values along the way.

[Hellataz]

82. That's the problem, too often the GOP and Church work together

No concept of separation of church and state. I would say It's not their place to try and influence their "followers" but who are we kidding, just the name "followers" implies they will do what the church tells them too. Now don't get me wrong, I don't blanket every church goer in this category, it's more a statement of how the church higher ups feel they can use their platform to make their congregation do what they want. There's a reason the church goers are references as the "sheep" or "flock". I'm glad you, as I'm sure many others in other church have spoken out and made your anger about this known. If the churches don't stop this crap the shepherd will be tending to an empty house.