Our message to voters should be: cast provisional ballots no matter what!

[Alhena]

I'm getting really tired of posts and Rolling Stone articles wailing "the election has already been stolen!" because of voter purges. If I didn't know better, I'd think the Freeper crowd is behind it, trying to discourage our voters. The fact is that, notwithstanding any voter purges, you will be allowed to cast a provisional ballot which will be counted in any close race.

THAT should be our message to Democratic supporters- go to vote and don't take no for an answer. No matter how hard they try to make it, refuse to leave until you've cast a provisional ballot. With all the legal assistance Obama is arranging on election day, I am confident the poll workers won't try to pull any funny business and if they do then we will bring it before a judge very quickly.

But the bottom line is that we need to educate our voters about provisional ballots, not despair over any purges that might have already taken place.

[justiceischeap]

1. But wait, RFK, Jr. on Rachel's show said last night we SHOULDN'T cast provisional ballots

Because their often not counted.

[Alhena]

2. My understanding is they are counted in close races. Is he suggesting no vote at all?

[ClassWarrior]

7. So if all of our voters cast provisional ballots, it won't be close.

It'll be a "real ballot" landslide for McBush, and our votes won't get counted.

Duh.

NGU.

[John Q. Citizen]

13. Provisionals are a tiny bit better than casting no vote at all. But people should first

attempt to cast a regular vote. Especially if they know they are registered. They shouldn't just except the provisional, vote and split. They should attempt to push for their rights.

Provisionals may or may not be counted whether the vote is close or not.

[justiceischeap]

18. He also said the reason AA's are so disenfranchised as voters

is because they often cast provisional ballots. It's often a case of their precincts getting the worst of the voting machines, fewer poll workers, etc.

[Overseas]

20. OF COURSE NOT. RFK Jr. and Greg Palast -- Steal Back Your Vote dot org -- are the experts.

The two of them have been studying Republican election manipulation techniques FOR EIGHT YEARS.
They know a bit more than you and I do. They have been alarmist in the titles of some of their articles in order to make people very aware of the problems and on the lookout.

I agree with you that I don't want people to get discouraged and give up. We need an avalanche to get our landslide. We hope lots of voters checked their registrations when the call was first issued weeks ago. Certainly, if registration is closed and you have no other choice, take the provisional ballot.

But, provisional ballots are set aside and often NOT COUNTED. They are held to be counted and perhaps challenged IF THERE'S NO CLEAR WINNER. So if they get enough Dems to use provisionals, they can say say "Look Bush won so we don't need to count those provisionals. It is clear that Bush won." There were hundreds of thousands of provisional ballots UNCOUNTED in 2004.

So they've urged people to check their registrations and be sure they're on the list and only use provisional ballots as a last resort. And perhaps this time, if things look odd in some of the swing states, Democrats will push for the provisional ballots to be counted this time. And we can help them by insisting on the counting of provisional ballots ourselves to back up our party's call.

If you want to get up to speed about the FIVE TECHNIQUES used by Republicans since the 2000 election to depress Democratic vote totals, please check out "Stealing America: Vote by Vote"
www.stealingamericathemovie.com . It is a calm, comprehensive documentary, which also gives some historical info.

(1) Purging the voter rolls is only one of the methods. (2) You may have seen people reporting in from early voting in West Virginia that their votes for Dems were flipping to Republicans. That's evidence of electronic vote fraud which has also been done in past elections. Little software programs can be inserted here and there to make flips of various sizes through various networks. (3)Then there are misdirection efforts-- robocalls and robofliers to direct people to the wrong date or polling place. Those are usually done by shadowy groups not directly traceable to the Republican Party. (4)Then there is voter intimidation you may have seen reported here, wherein snarling protesters harass voters as they walk in to do early voting. That's designed to discourage future voters from going to the polls. Get some to give up because they don't want to be harassed.

(5) Then there is challenging registrations at the polling places to create long lines. I think part of the ACORN challenge is designed to make it look reasonable that Republicans challenge people at the polls. Mickey Mouse showing up to vote is very very rare and not a problem-- DOJ attorneys were fired for refusing to take up the cases the Republicans tried to push. The attorneys didn't take the cases because there was no evidence that false registrations ended up in false voting. So the Republicans had to generate lots of media attention on their own-- no cases to show, but they have the conservative media echo chamber. In Ohio 2004 Republicans used this technique extensively-- check voter registrations using those purge lists for guidance-- and managed to slow down the voting in Democratic precincts.

[renate]

3. I remember that too--he was pretty emphatic about it

Oy... Election Day is going to be a mess.

[John Q. Citizen]

15. Another good reason to vote early where possible. It allows time to

figure out what's happening in different situations as regards access.

[vanlassie]

4. But I agree it is a good last resort.

I would refuse one until I was being pushed out the door, though.

[pnwmom]

22. I think what he meant is that if you can fight for a real one, that's the better

option. I'm sure he didn't mean that not voting is preferable to a provisional ballot.

[still_one]

5. No way, demand an absentee ballot. The provisionals will never be counted /nt

[Alhena]

8. Ok- even better. But we need to think constructively

[still_one]

24. You are right /nt

[ClassWarrior]

6. Thom Hartman calls provisional ballots "placebo ballots," because...

...they make you think you voted when, in actuality, your vote never gets counted.

NGU.

[Alhena]

10. Wiki says 80% of provisional ballots were counted in the 2006 election ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_ballot

And I expect that this number would have been much higher if whoever wanted the votes counted had been lawyered up. And let's face it- not everyone who casts a provisional ballot is really entitled to have their vote counted. The law allows anyone to cast a provisional ballot, even people who never registered at all. But in the unlawful voter purge scenario, the law would be on our side and in any close race Obama would have huge teams of lawyers on the case.

[ClassWarrior]

12. I'll believe Thom over Wiki any day. Call his show today and ask him.

NGU.

[Alhena]

14. My point is: provisional is far better than nothing. I'd prefer absentee if possible

I can't imagine that Thom or RFK Jr. contend that our voters should just storm out of the voting station in anger.

[ClassWarrior]

19. That's very different than "voters should cast provisional ballots no matter what!"

Nonetheless, Thom and Bobby say that a legal voter should NEVER vote provisional. S/he should INSIST on casting a real vote, and should take it up with the local election board and election protection attorneys if the poll workers won't allow it.

NGU.

[vanlassie]

9. Can you get an absentee ballot on the spot at the polling place?

[ClassWarrior]

11. No, but that's what you'll get if your state allows you to vote early.

NGU.

[riqster]

16. We need to do both

Jumping on these questionably-timed purges is important so as to encourage reversal of the changes, and to discourage such shenanigans in the future.

And, yes, a Provisional ballot is better than nothing - court actions can be brought to require that they be expeditiously validated and counted when appropriate, rather than left to sit and counted later, after the race has been decided.

[progressivebydesign]

17. It may be too late, but the best message is to check NOW to see if you're okay.

I found out last week that we'd been somehow rendered "INACTIVE" and had to scramble to get reinstated (thanks to a wonderful election worker who helped out.) But had I waited to find out on election day, I'd have been screwn. My message is... CHECK NOW. Use the online tools to make sure you're registered correctly. Obama has had those tools on his website for a while, and they're available online. I was overconfident and didn't realize there was a risk that I'd lose my registration status.

CHECK NOW...

[Overseas]

21. Correction = VOTE, NO MATTER WHAT. Push for a regular ballot.

VOTE, NO MATTER WHAT !! We need our avalanche to get our landslide.

Check your registration. Push for a regular ballot. If you can't get one, Provisional ballots are a LAST RESORT.

If the election is close in your state and they're saying McSHame won, push for all the provisional ballots to be counted.

The Republicans may object, or may jump in to challenge each one of the provisional ballots which will take lots of time and put lots of pressure on the apparent loser to just close down the counting and concede like a "good sport."

See my post above-- "OF COURSE NOT..." for more details.


www.stealbackyourvote.org for emergency info on doing our best to be sure our votes are counted.

[crispini]

23. NO. DO NOT DO THIS.

Speaking as an election judge in Texas: The provisional ballot is the "ballot of last resort" and it MAY VERY WELL NOT COUNT.

In my state, first of all, you should go vote early NOW so you can get these problems straightened out before election day. BUT, if you go to the polls on election day and you are in the wrong place, for the love of Pete, GO TO THE RIGHT POLLING LOCATION if you have the time!

You should ONLY cast a provisional ballot if they absolutely cannot find your voter registration anywhere but you are sure you are registered. In this case, describe in detail why you think you are registered, and where.