We have been joined at our Tuesday peace vigil by a young group of McCain supporters

[proud2BlibKansan]

I found out today that they are 16 years old and from the high school I went to. It is an exclusive private school only the wealthiest families in this city can afford. There are a few scholarship kids and that's how I got in - my dad was on the faculty so I was a faculty brat. Didn't fit in 40 years ago cause they were all Republicans and I know I wouldn't fit in today either. (But I did get a great education.)

So I decided to go across the street at our vigil tonight and talk to these kids. I told them I was an alum. They looked kind of surprised and thought I was there to ask them to go away.

Me: Absolutely not. In fact, I am glad you are here and you have apparently learned enough about the constitution to put your first amendment rights into action.

Kid 1: But you don't support the war.

Me: No I don't.

Kid 2: You don't want to protect America?

Me: Of course I want to protect America. But Iraq is not our enemy. We don't need to protect ourselves from the Iraqis.

Kid 2: But Saddaam was an evil man who gassed his own people.

Me: He's dead now. We killed him 3 years ago. Why are you still concerned about him?

Kid 3: Were you also against going to war with Hitler? He killed his own people too.

Me: We didn't go to war then because Hitler killed his own people. We went to war because Japan attacked us.

Kid 3: But the middle east will explode if we don't keep our soldiers there.

Me: And that is what bothers me the most about you kids being here, promoting this war. I know because of where you go to school that your lives will be full of choices. When you get out of high school you can go to any college you want to. When you finish college the world will be your oyster. You can do pretty much anything you want to do because you have options. But there are a lot of kids your age right here in this city who don't have the options you do. For them the military gives them the opportunities you don't have to work for. And you want to send them to war, and they could come home dead or maimed or maybe even full of depleted uranium. And for what?

Kid 2: To protect America. And if I want I can join the military too.

Me: Yes you can. But what is our military protecting us from in Iraq?

Kid 1: From the terrorists who attacked us.

Me: The terrorists who attacked us weren't from Iraq. There weren't even any Iraqi passengers on any of those planes.

Kid 4: Can you tell me one thing Obama has accomplished while in the US Senate?

Me: I am not here to discuss Obama. But I am voting for him because I think he is a great man who will work to end the war in Iraq and bring our troops home, and McCain will not.

Kid 1: But Obama is a socialist.

Me: So am I. There is nothing wrong with socialism.

Kid 2: You admit you are a socialist? A marxist?

Me: Socialism and marxism are not one and the same. Surely you know that.

Kid 3: We are against welfare.

Me: So did you oppose the corporate welfare handed out to the Wall Street firms a few weeks ago? And is it okay with you that so many wealthy corporations in this country don't pay any taxes? That's welfare, isn't it?

Kid 1: Well, we also don't want socialized medicine.

Me: I want people who don't have the options you do to have medical care. You can call that socialism if you want, I call it taking care of the American people.

Me: Something else that concerns me is 3 weeks from now once this election is over, you will be gone. But we have been here almost 6 years and we will still be here until the war is over.

Kid 2: Oh if Obama wins, we will be back until he is gone.

Me: Well I look forward to talking to you again then. See you next week.

:banghead:

[Lost-in-FL]

1. You did what you could.

At least you tried.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Young rich punks

One of them main reasons I can't stand Bush is I grew up with spoiled little rich boys like him whose daddies bailed them out at every opportunity. They never had to pay any dues or earn anything. It is hard to describe just how hard it was to talk to these young punks and hold my temper.

[KathieG]

3. Their parents have them fully brainwashed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Sadly yes, they do

[Chulanowa]

40. So did mine

I grew out of it by the time I reached voting age.

Of course, my family is the "deep south cross burning fundie redneck" variety of conservative, and not the "rich motherfucker who gets more tax dollars than he spends and covers his whole family to the seventh generation" variety of conservative. Maybe it's easier to shake when you're poor and your family is obviously nuts.

[Webster Green]

4. They need to go enlist. I signed up when I was 16.

I had to get my parent's permission, and I left for boot camp shortly after I turned 17.

Go sign up, boys! You'll figure out pretty fucking quickly that this war is a bunch of shit, based on a bunch of lies. (just like the one I was in). :smoke:

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. One of the people in our group handed them recruitment forms tonight

[Webster Green]

16. Perfect!

I printed a bunch up and carry them to rallies, in case I run into rabid wing-nuts. }(

[crossroads]

7. Pretty dense kids... maybe too much Faux Noise?

You did what you could to explain and reason with them! Thanks...
CR

[yardwork]

10. Too much privilege and complacency.

[bluethruandthru]

8. Sad how they just parrot the RW talking points. And,

they don't sound any different from other repukes....young or old. They all know how to say the phrases "socialized medicine" "protect America" , "against Welfare", etc., etc.,...but they really have no clue what they mean.
Good for you for maybe breaking through just a bit!

[Thrill]

9. Why haven't they joined the military, so they can be one of those soldiers?

Thats what you should have asked. I've had it with these little stuck up Republicans, who are always ready to send soldiers to war, but won't get their ass out there

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. They are only 16

[yardwork]

11. That was really impressive. I wouldn't have been able to do it.

Thank you for protesting for peace, and for talking very reasonably with those kids.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. I am not sure it had the desired effect

But I had to try.

[yardwork]

15. If nothing else, at least you presented the facts calmly and clearly.

[Diamonique]

14. Thank you for planting those seeds.

It may take awhile, but you gave them something to think about.

[MagickMuffin]

17. Kid 2: Oh if Obama wins, we will be back until he is gone.

I guess we see where their priorities are. They'll protest a President, but won't protest an illegal WAR.

It really is sad to know that the little rich kids are as dumb as a bag of flaming poo.

I probably would have asked them why Osama bin Laden is still FREE to make additional plans to harm Americans.

Why did Mad king Boy George give up on "Getting bin Laden Dead or Alive!"?.?.?

Do the rich kids know that ALL our government officials get "Socialized Medicine" that WE pay for out of our taxes?.?.?

Do they know that John McCain gets a "Social Security" Check EVERY month?.?.?

Do they think that because their parents are Wealthy that they ARE better than the rest of Americans, who don't have the same privileges as they have?.?.?

Will they be buying their own cars or paying for their own college?.?.? If not then they are also living on their parents "WELFARE"............ oops.



Thanks proud2Blib for showing by engaging them with very valid questions.:applause:

[WinkyDink]

26. THIS is disturbng, as these kids didn't have an original thought: "if Obama wins, we will be back

until he is gone."

THIS IS WHAT THE RW MEDIA HAVE IN STORE.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. Same as it ever was.

[rucky]

39. Not because of what anything he's done, but because of who he is.

that's the difference.

[coalition_unwilling]

18. As a fellow anti-militarism vigiler (also

going on 6 years now), I take a somewhat contrarian view to the prevailing sentiment here.

At least these kids were demonstrating for something, reprehensible though that something may be.

Nnthing pisses me off more than the studied indifference of the motorists in their land yachts or their making the cuckoo sign with their finger going in circles, as if the mere act of expressing an opinion in public is a sign of craziness.

These kids are children of privilege. But they do not forfeit their rights for an accident of birth. And they just haven't come into contact with the right teachers yet.

Edited for unclear pronoun references.

[SeattleGirl]

19. "And they just haven't come into contact with the right teachers yet."

Or maybe they have, but they don't realize it yet.

I rather hope they do keep coming back, and talking. Who knows; maybe one of them at least will start seeing things in a new way.

[renate]

20. that's very nice of you

You're right, of course. At least they're taking the time to participate in our democracy, and America is (or is supposed to be) all about the respectful exchange of different opinions. Plus they're just kids. My kids are wildly pro-Democratic (and I have to be the one to tell them that "Republican" doesn't always mean "bad) and they feel that way because they get most of their political news and opinions at home. (Also, they're pretty smart.) The pro-war kids may be misguided and only parroting Faux News talking points, but at least they're out there doing something.

On another note, Army recruiters are having a hell of a time (and I've read that some are burning out as badly as soldiers who are serving in Iraq because of the mind-bogglingly intense pressure from above to sign up new recruits). I would think that pro-war demonstrations would be a great place to hand out information about joining up.

[coalition_unwilling]

24. Not one kid, be he or she rich or poor,

should be sacrificed on the altar of politicians' vanity, imho.

(Is it me or am I lately sounding like an Old Testament prophet? Like something out of Ecclesiastes :)

Are there still pro-war rallies going on?

[renate]

33. I 100% agree... but if anybody's going to go, it ought to be the ones who WANT the war

And not the ones who don't.

The kids who join the military because there are no jobs in town or because they can't pay for college any other way shouldn't have to go. The ones who still think the war is fine and dandy as long as OTHER people are fighting it... again, if anybody is going to go, it ought to be them.

You're absolutely right, of course nobody should be fighting that war. But it's pretty unfair that rich entitled kids are pro-OTHER people fighting and sweating and living in fear and dying unneecessarily, while they are safe and sound to wave their signs counter-demonstrating at a peace rally.

I say this as someone whose cousin just left a brand-new baby and a toddler behind to go to Iraq. No, nobody should have to go. It's a travesty. And if I thought too much about how this war started and how unnecessary it is, I will just :nuke: . But I thank you sincerely for your reminder. Even kids brainwashed by their Republican parents are innocent, and even if they weren't, nobody deserves death for their ignorance.

[bluedawg12]

21. Propaganda starts at home and this is an example of youth

indoctrination.

Keep the faith, maybe even if 10% sank in, it would be worth it.

[krkaufman]

22. Wow, I realized two-thirds of the way through the saddest thing about that interaction ...

... is that these were 16-year-olds, so they're lack of logic, knowledge and to discuss any issue beyond a superficial talking point probably isn't abnormal for kids that age. But what saddened me is that the exchange isn't any different than what you'd have if you were talking to the average McCain supporter, regardless of age.

So many Republican supporters seem to be locked in an juvenile or adolescent mindset.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Great point!

[WinkyDink]

25. They were perfect little fools. Republican opposition is a mile wide, inch deep.

Next week:
Ayres; Wright; ACORN. campaign financing.

[Leftist Agitator]

27. They're beyond repair or redemption at the tender age of 16...

How sad, how lamentable.

They are the enemy. I suggest that you treat them accordingly.

There is no man (or woman) who is so blind as those who refuse to see.

I honestly don't know what to say, aside from reiterating the inexorable truth that they are the enemy, and you should treat them accordingly.

Compassion for monsters never did the world any favors, in fact, quite the opposite. For all their naive rhetoric about things which they know nothing about, your account has told me one thing: These children are the vanguard of a new generation of dangerous, discompassionate Republican assholes.

Ignore, belittle, pity them at your own peril, and that of future generations.

[smoogatz]

29. Those are some pretty dumb kids.

Oy.

[ecstatic]

32. critical thinking skills severely compromised... but why and how?

That's odd for kids that young. :( Or is it?

[dbmk]

34. Give kids like that a chance to leave home and learn a little more on their own.

Writing them off at this point would only compound their parents faults.

The person behind this OP handled this in the best way possible. Let them know that opposing views can be discussed in a civil manner - maybe then something will sink in.

If you treat them like enemies, you will only reinforce their conceptions.

[smoogatz]

42. The good news is, you can't blame it on the public schools.

The bad news is that critical thinking is a skill that a near majority of Americans will probably never acquire.

[TragedyandHope]

30. Don't give up

I know a few people with similar backgrounds and a similar mindset who were able to open their minds to new ideas once they left home and went off to college.

Some of them have told me looking back years later, they can't believe they ever believed that RW garbage. It was all they knew and what they were brought up on. That doesn't mean they're all lost causes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. Yes they are in a very sheltered world right now

[HughMoran]

31. This is why I don't even attempt to talk to brainwashed zombies any more

Man, what a waste of breath. Those kids remind me of so many of the right-wing morans I used to try to reason with.

[dbmk]

35. But were you raised in a home where this was pounded into your head?

The OP might actually have planted a few seeds for betterment, with that civil discussion.

At 16 I would like to think there was some room left for improvement.

[Number23]

36. Has Obama admitted to being a socialist?

Kid 1: But Obama is a socialist.

Me: So am I. There is nothing wrong with socialism.

Did I miss that somehow?? You seem to be implying that he is a socialist or that he has admitted that he is a socialist. I don't recall ever hearing that.

[Skwmom]

37. Obama is NOT a socialist.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. I know that

Preachin to the choir here!

[4lbs]

38. These young kids are always hawkish except when it comes to them actually serving.

Fundie: "I support the war in Iraq."

"Really, how old are you?"

Fundie: "17" or "18" or "19"

"Gee, I guess then you'll be signing up for the military soon so you can go to Iraq or Afghanistan and fight in this war that you support."

Fundie: "Uh.... no."

"Why? You're perfectly healthy and able to learn to drive humvees and tanks and shoot guns right?"

Fundie: "Yeah... but... the military already has enough soldiers for that."

"Actually, no they don't. The US Military is currently severely undermanned. Why do you think so many have been stop-lossed?"

Fundie: "Well... I think God has other, better plans for me, to support America."

"Mmmm Hmmm." :eyes:

[obiwan]

41. I went down and joined the local vigil the day after the war started.

That was over five years ago, and we have been gathering at the same spot every Friday ever since. We will leave when all the troops are home from Iraq and Afghanistan.

There were some flag-wavers on the corner diagonally opposite from us. They disappeared when W landed on the aircraft carrier, and they haven't been back since.

Then in 2004 some cowboys in pickup trucks festooned with flags decided they wanted to set up shop on our side of the street. That lasted about a week, and they disappeared right after the election.

My question: Why do my friends and I hate America so much?

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. Interesting how they come and go while we are there every week