It's a bad day when you are disappointed in, and ashamed of, your own mother.

[dem629]

This morning I awoke to an email from my mother. It's one of those anti-Obama screeds, complete with all the juicy rumors we're all aware of, so I won't repeat them here.

The email closes by urging people to pray for Obama's defeat.

I wrote her back with this:

"If it's true that God's invisible hand directs the path of this great nation, wouldn't an Obama victory irrefutably be said to be the will of God? Who could argue with that outcome?"

Obviously, that's a little snarky, but I think it's not an unreasonable logical question. An hour or so later, she writes back:

"Remember free will? Some people will make mistakes by voting for socialism. That is what the prayer request is for; that God will direct those people, be enlightened by the Holy Spirtit, and make the correct choice. This is serious. But, I am not going to argue the point. This could have a profound effect on our country as we know it. Please pray that he is NOT elected. It will seriously have an adverse effect on our lives, economically and otherwise. I will continue to pray that the outcome will keep our country as we know it."

I'm just floored today. So disappointed. And, truthfully, I would actually respect her vote for McCain if she based it on something -- ANYTHING! -- rational. I would disagree, but I would respect her. Now, well...I just can't believe this is what it has come to. The worst part is that she KNOWS where I stand. I was insulted by the "people will make mistakes" and "enlightened by the Holy Spirit" comment. Later, on the phone, I told her that was ridiculous and insulting and that I make my decision based on "the holy newspaper and the holy Internet." Needless to say, there's a little strife in the family over this. Sigh. Sorry for the venting but I know I can't be alone in this.

[blue cat]

1. I hear ya

same problem with my family.

[Labors of Hercules]

51. So, Let me get this straight: if it's what THEY want = GOD's will, if not = FREE will?

Is that about the sum of it?

Must be nice to be able to trump the will of GOD whenever you damn well feel like it. How nice. :eyes:

[Vinca]

2. When you email her back, make sure you remind her to opt

out of those socialistic programs "Social Security" and "Medicare" when the time comes. I'm afraid the big problem with the socialist meme is people haven't a clue what socialism is.

[dem629]

3. Great suggestion. Thanks.

[rucky]

14. She should also give her tax cut to someone earning over 250K

seriously, though, has she read this website, yet? www.matthew25.org

[RagAss]

4. Took the words right out of my mouth...Privatized Social Security, right?

[Muttocracy]

7. and tell her not to take those government-paved roads... nt

[jwirr]

8. In fact just tell her gently that those are the programs they are calling

socialist.

[OneGrassRoot]

5. Sadly, you are FAR from alone in this. Good luck. n/t

[WeDidIt]

6. I'm glad my mother is not like that.

I'd cut all ties with her over it.

How do I know I'd cut all ties with her over it?

Because I HAVE CUT ALL TIES WITH MY FATHER!

That was over a decade ago.

[joeglow3]

9. My parents are the same way

I just choose to have a good relationship with them (because I enjoy it and I want my grandkids to know their grandparents) so we don't discuss politics.

[Doremus]

10. There are plenty more "socialist" programs she needs to opt out of.

Fire Dept.
Police Dept.
Roads and highways
Schools
Libraries
Etc, etc., etc.


I'll bet a comprehensive list of all of the "socialist" programs we all have need of at one time or another would be a foot long.

[dem629]

13. I'm also going to ask her why she supports McCain's proposal to use $300 billion

to buy mortgages.

In the Repub mind, THAT has to be socialism. I guess they only oppose it depending on who comes up with the idea. :(

[monmouth]

11. If your mother enjoys receiving a social security check each month, well....

you know, that's a good place to start with her. He'd privatize SS in a heartbeat.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dem629]

17. I wasn't exactly looking for death wishes.

[mitchum]

22. And that was not a death wish

[Wapsie B]

15. People like her will cling to anything to rationalize their choice.

They refuse to see the bars of the jail cell they choose to live in.

[babylonsister]

16. Mail her this; ask her to dispute the points, though reason doesn't

appear to be working. I have a brother I haven't talked to in years because he's so rethug. And I don't miss him! But moms are different.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7547993&mesg_id=7547993

[JuniperLea]

18. When Obama is named our new POTUS...

You can tell her it surely must be God's will.

[kwolf68]

19. And...

The last time "God" directed the election of a President (Bush), how did she like the results?

[kestrel91316]

20. Wow. Sorry about your mom. Kind of makes me appreciate my

batshit-crazy-but-apolitical, stroke-demented, assisted-living-dwelling mom.

[mwb970]

21. I suppose she is beyond the reach of logic.

But you might try explaining that America's is not a purely capitalist economy, that we have had what is called a "mixed economy" since the 30s (this came about in response to the evils of the "robber baron" era). McCain recently decried the horrors of "taxing some people to give money to others," calling it Socialism. It is Socialism. It is also a precise description of Social Security, one of the most popular and successful government programs in our history. The other is Medicare, which is also Socialist in nature and also redistributes wealth. These two programs alone make up over half of the federal budget each year.

As a final point, the progressive tax system we have, whereby the wealthy pay at a higher percentage rate, is also Socialist in nature. Would she have us, then, do away with Social Security (as bush/McCain want), and Medicare (as Reagan wanted), and our progressive tax system (as, um, Steve Forbes wanted)?

Or maybe this is too logical an argument.

[rufus dog]

23. I say you agree with her!

Does she believe in God's will?

Does God have a master plan?

Why would God put Obama on this Earth and have so many decent people, like her son, working to get Obama elected?

Could it be that God is providing us guidance and identifying a leader to help the Greatest Nation Ever? She just happens to be confused and is not following the proper path even though God has provided her with ample illumination to follow the path he has chosen.

Send her the picture of the footsteps in the sand and ask her if she is being carried now because there is only one set of footprints?!

[jberryhill]

24. I never understand the "country as we know it" phrase

When has America ever stood still?

If you could snap your fingers and make it 1910, would you? 1955? 1973?

The country I live in is not the country I lived in 30 years ago, and I don't expect to be living in the same country 10 years from now.

[gabby garcia]

25. is she racist, greedy/rich, or just plain ignorant?

"I will continue to pray that the outcome will keep our country as we know it."

now there is an ode to 4 more years of the same!

Isn't she worried about those two crazy mavericks getting to Washington and "shaking things up"?

:crazy:

[Lucky 13]

26. My crazy ass Fundie parents are the same way.

It's disgusting. I have a hard time trying to have any kind of relationship with them cause I just can't stand this kind of bullshit.

[polichick]

27. imo the critical line is:

"I will continue to pray that the outcome will keep our country as we know it."

That's all about the fear of change ~ ask her what she's afraid of ~ specifically.

[Frances]

28. I would be tempted to tell her that if she votes for McCain and

if McCain wins, she will get a country as President Herbert Hoover knew it.

[Obamanaut]

29. Both sets of our in-laws - mine and hers -are exactly as you described

We had a 93rd b'day party this past Sat for my MIL, and I had briefings for all last week that if anyone mentioned religion or politics to please just walk away, because Ms ret88 wanted it to be a good day for her and her mom.

So far I only have two relatives on email blocked senders list, but I have fwd'ed a lot of their stuff to the watchdog Obama site.

And yesterday there were two early votes for Obama.

Good thoughts going to you.

[zulchzulu]

30. I had a similar discussion with my mother a few months ago

She is firmly in the belief that Obama is a terrorist or has ties to "them". She can't be convinced otherwise. She is actually merely a racist and a homophobe... has been for years. I've learned to NEVER discuss politics with her.

Try to separate your love for your mother with her horrible political views. Life is too short to cut her off.

[Ladyhawk]

31. Happens to me often. Yesterday I had a good cry.

My entire family is like your mother. My mother is EXACTLY like your mother.

Right now things are working better than they used to. In order for this to happen I had to create boundaries and in order to do that, I had to cut family out of my life a couple of times to prove I was serious. That hurt everyone a lot, but no matter what I SAID, my boundaries were not respected. I had to ACT.

Now we don't talk religion or politics much and I try to keep it that way. It still doesn't take away the feeling of being alone in so many ways. Nor does it completely dry the tears.

[CADEMOCRAT7]

32. Your mother can not hear you because she is in fear mode.

You might want to talk to the scared woman not the intellectual one. Do you know what I mean ?

[barack the house]

33. This negative praying thing seems a big wrong to me.>

Still love your mother nonetheless you just sometimes have to let things go when it's family for general harmony.

[JimGinPA]

34. You Choose Your Friends - Unfortunatly You Can't Choose Your Family

:toast:

[jberryhill]

35. Your mother sounds like a caring and concerned woman

She changed your diapers, made sure you were fed and clothed, and got you off to school.

Now, be nice to her and offer to help her vote on November 5th.

:evilgrin:

[bertman]

36. Look at it this way: You can't expect a gawd-fearing woman to vote for the Anti-Christ, can you?

[Barack_America]

37. "keep our country as we know it"

As in ruled by rich, white men who do for themselves and shit on the rest of us?

:shrug:

[progressivebydesign]

38. I'm sorry for you. :( My Mom is a Duer!

Hi Mom!!! :)

Having said that, I always find it so fascinating about those republican religion=politics types, that they actually believe that God would have a hand in an election... If there actually was a god, she would would be ignorant of borders and parties, seeing only people.

[yellowdogintexas]

43. if God micromanaged the world in that fashion, Hitler would have gotten into art school. nt

[DevonRex]

44. Uh oh. Steve, is that YOU??? Lord, I hope not. I'd have to clean up

my language a little bit.

[prolesunited]

39. Here's the tell

the outcome will keep our country as we know it.

She doesn't want an African-American in charge.

My dad is 83 and a WWII vet so he's lived through segregation and racism. Much to my surprise, he voted for Obama in the primary and is looking forward to voting for him on Election Day. I am so proud that he has been able to grow beyond the culture in which he was raised.

We're going to see family in Ohio, and they're all on board except for the BIL and his wife. I'm just going to refuse to discuss it with them and walk out of the room if they won't stop.

It's obvious no one will change their mind. Just make it off limit for discussion for the sake of family harmony and if that doesn't work, just disappear for a couple of weeks.

[blueclown]

40. My mother is a Republican.

But I would never be ashamed of her. Ever.

[NotThisTime]

41. I'm sorry :( You can't fight the religious right however :(

[DevonRex]

42. Oh, hon, you're NOT alone. There are so many of us here who have

relatives like that. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. It is upsetting. So vent all you need to. I've done it myself a few times and it really helps.

Remember that there are some people who will never understand no matter what you do.

I have done 2 things. If my relatives send me those nasty viral emails, I forward them to [e-mail]. They will reply to you and to everyone on the original email list with the correct information.

For more personal emails like the one you got from your mom, it's difficult. You may just have to write her a short, polite note saying that it's not good for your relationship to discuss those matters and ask if she would please stop.

Good luck.

[crankychatter]

45. My rednecked cousins used to have coffee at my folks' house most mornings

they would constantly bait my mom, knowing she's a liberal

their favorite thing was to resurrect and re-assassinate JFK...

she never said a word to them... she used to tell me "I'm not here to make converts. They can be as wrong as they want to be. They're family."

But one morning, she was puttering at the sink... she stopped and turned around after a particularly nasty JFK bashing session...

She waited until there was silence... and they all hushed and waited

In a calm voice she flatly stated, "If Nixon, Reagan and Bush had gone out and gotten a little on the side once in a while, maybe they wouldn't have spent so much time FUCKING AMERICA."

my little white haired mother... god rest her soul

[Born_A_Truman]

46. Does she think it's socialist for the american taxpayer to bail out wall street?

Or only if the middle class gets a tax cut?

Will she or has she turned down SS and Medicare?

[Faygo Kid]

47. My Mom died in 2003. Would have been 90 this year,

And as a teen/young adult in the Depression, she would have supported Barack.

I bet your Mom is younger than mine. Love her anyway, and be grateful hat you think for yourself.

[Neecy]

48. ask her this

Is your mother on Social Security? Ask her to give it back, because it's a 'socialist' program. Same with Medicare.

Is she enormously wealthy? If not, why does she think that an Obama presidency would have an adverse effect on 'our' lives?

I think the insanely religious who are praying for a McCain win are going to be sorely tested when they wake up November 5th.

[Phx_Dem]

49. My mom's a wingnut too so I feel your pain.

In fact, my whole side of the family are wingnuts. My dad was a conservative, but he was more of the Chuck Hagel mold; conservative but very tolerant of others. I just thank God I wasn't inflicted with the wingnut disease.

My husband's side are the only politically-sane ones in our family as they're all Jewish hard-core Democrats.

[stolivodka]

50. Free will is an illusion.

Nothing can occur outside the will of a truly omnipotent God. All that is before us or is hidden from us is God's will. The apostates running around in America calling themselves "christians" worship a small, limited god who only cares about dead fetuses and national elections and doesn't even have the power to keep his "enemies" out of office. Pathetic.