As You Have Done Unto the Least of These, You Have Done Unto Me -Jesus Christ

[LynneSin]

I want every one of those hypocritical republicans to remember that when they consider what the Bush administration of these past 8 years.

How many families were destroyed because of this economic crash?

How many children will have only one parent because another was lost in Iraq?

How many families have not returned to normal life since Katrina, Rita, Wilma, Fay, Ike and a host of other destructive hurricanes?

How many families have maxed out their credit in order to cover the basics like food and gas to get to their job.

I don't care if you, a member of DU, call yourself Christian or not - that makes no difference. What I care is that those who call themselves 'Christians' and are not outraged by what George Bush has done to our country and to the least of these. Because what Bush and those who support him have done to the least of these in our country is SHAMEFUL and with total disrespect to the tenets of our Christian faith.

I know I'm not perfect, I don't give out change for every request asked of me. But I try my best to make this a better country and I support Obama because I believe he will make this a better country by not neglecting those who have been forgotten these past 8 years - which pretty much is 95% of this country (and that includes plenty of republicans living on the poverty line too).

No matter what you believe in God or Jesus, I think all of you can believe that Jesus had some great things to say about how to live our lives (and I'm talking the 4 Gospels only - not that crap in the old testament or done by Paul).

Jesus could return to earth and I have a feeling most so called 'Christians' and especially those who vote republican wouldn't have a clue who he was. If you are a person of faith there is no way you can vote for a person that will only continue this practice of supporting the wealthiest of our country.

[AndyA]

1. I"ve long believed that these people who call themselves "Christians" truly are not Christians.

The whole do unto others, thou shalt not kill, casting the first stone, etc., thing pretty much does it for me. These are commandments, and they cannot be altered.

Thanks for your post. :thumbsup:

[Bubbha Jo]

5. Some follow the words in a Bible. Some others follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The two don't parallel well............

[LynneSin]

9. When I see fundamentalist quote Paul or scriptures from Leviticus as their guide

then they are not following the teachings of Jesus.

[Deep13]

31. Matthew 5:17-20

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.


So Leviticus is just as binding on Christians as it is on Jews.

You should also keep in mind that the writings of Paul of Tarsis predate the Cannonical Gospels by decades and in some instances, centuries. None of the writers of the four Gospels were witnesses and they disagree with each other on crucial events. They cannot be taken as a factual account of what Jesus did or said or even if he existed at all. Frankly, unlike Paul came along with his injection of Zoroastrianism, the teachings of Jesus were nothing more than a minor heresy of Judaism barely distinguishable from the orthodox view.

[LynneSin]

90. Matthew 22:34-38

The Greatest Commandment
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

[Deep13]

91. Do you really want to hang your hat on that?

Unless you are conceding that the NT is self-contradictory and, therefore, unreliable; this has to be read together with what I posted. In other words, one does what the Great Commandment requires by following the Mosaic law.

Going beyond that, how is this an example of superior ethics or morality? Basically the first half, which is the most important half, commands us to love god. Is love something one can really do on command? We can pretend to love him and obey him, but I cannot simply decide to love a god, especially one as evil as the god of the Bible. What is more is that my problem on this matter is compounded because I am convinced that their is no god.

Another thing, if I am devoted to god to the extent required, what room is there for friends, family and other real-world responsibilities? It seems positively immoral to love god more than one loves his or her spouse or children.

Love ones neighbor seems reasonable until we get to the "as yourself" part. That is an impossible standard and deliberately so. If I were to do that, I would have no self preservation instinct because everything I did would be for my neighbors. I suppose self-destruction from self-neglect would be just fine in Jesus' eyes as it would make one a martyr. What's more, since Christianity views humans as horrible sinners, "as yourself" may be a pretty meaningless standard.

Religion and in fact all totalitarian thinking creates impossible standards of behavior to keep its subjects in a constant state of failure. This creates a perpetual need for the religion to purify people for their imagined sins. Integral in this thinking are thought crimes. For example when Jesus says that merely thinking about ones neighbor's wife is adultery, the penalty for which is death, he has created a thought crime. Likewise with injunctions to love this or that or to believe this or that. Not only are thought crimes oppressive on their face, but they are unavoidable. I cannot tell you hour many hours in the past I have agonized over sinful THOUGHTS as a teenager. And I got the idea straight from the NT.

[LynneSin]

6. These are commandments that translate to any religion

and are not exclusive to Christians only.

[begin_within]

2. Sadly, the Republicans have nothing to do with the actual teachings of Jesus of Nazareth

They only use that to attract voters, but their actual agenda is almost diametrically opposed to the teachings that Jesus elaborated, for example, the sermon on the mount, etc.

[LynneSin]

8. I would probably call the religion practiced by republicans as Paulism

Since Paul was the first Christian Fundamentalist. His beliefs were to convert everyone and create a Christian empire, something not done by Jesus. Jesus had followers but none of them were manipulated into following him.

[roguevalley]

24. I agree. I am a Jamesian believer. Paul never met Jesus, didn't

know his thoughts and turned everything he did know around 180 degrees. I have no respect for the appease tyrants and do as your told Christianity of Paul. Look where it has taken us all these years. Poor Jesus. What a mess things have been made of his goodness and teachings.

[liberalmuse]

3. I love Jesus teachings...

that is probably the main reason I'm a liberal. I guess I took them seriously, and believed that we should all strive to live our lives by The Sermon on the Mount. I'm atheist, or probably more accurately, agnostic, but that doesn't change how I feel about the teachings of the man or character of Jesus.

[LynneSin]

14. I don't think people have to be Christians to believe in the teachings of Jesus

Gandhi was a big fan of Jesus Christ. The man had some good words about how to live a decent life - words clearly lost on these Xtian/Paulists that still support Bush/McCain.

[anneboleyn]

58. Above all, charity and helping others, especially the sick, elderly, and the poor

how much better our society would be if we actually took care of the most vulnerable members of our society.

[Chovexani]

63. I'm Pagan and think Jesus had the right idea

It's his rabid fanboys I have issues with.

[volstork]

18. I agree.

I, too, am agnostic, but believe that the teachings of Jesus are a window into how we should relate equitably to each other. The "christians" of the religius right are about as far from the teachings of Jesus as one can get. Interestingly, the term "Christian" is used only three times in the New Testament, and in all three instances, it is a pejorative term. The initial followers of Jesus would never have called themselves "Christian."

[roguevalley]

25. He believed that a life without works, as all Jews believe, is not

a life worth living. You are known by your works. Also, as a member of The Poor, he would have put the weakest part of the people first. Too bad that is so old school to some.

[Midlodemocrat]

4. But, but, LynneSin. Abortion is WRONG.

say the one issue voters. :eyes:

Never mind the fact that that stupid fucking chimp and his six years of a Republican Congress and his right leaning SCOTUS didn't make any effort whatsoever to overturn Roe v. Wade. Becaues most Americans support a women's right to choose, you idiots.

The Stupid. It hurts.

[LynneSin]

7. Abortion is like Homosexuality - taking scripture and manipulating it for a cause

I defy anyone to point to a section in the GOSPELS that claim Jesus said "Abortion is Wrong" or "Homosexuality is Wrong". It can't be found. Only passages that 'claim' the intent and even then I think most of the Homosexuality ones are found elsewhere and not in the gospels.

[begin_within]

11. Abortion is not mentioned anywhere in the bible, in any translation.

[LynneSin]

13. There is a comment about God knowing you before you were born...

..as the excuse for Abortion.

Perhaps God did know you before you were born and decided you weren't ready to be born

:shrug:

[begin_within]

16. that could also be an argument in favor of a reincarnation theory

[merh]

12. The passage of the Gospels that comes close to discussing

abortion/homosexuality would be the passage that deals with the adulterer and the throwing of stones.

"ye without sin caste the first stone"

[liberalpress]

37. One of my ministers likes to say...

... what did Jesus say about homosexuality.. NOTHING! It apparently wasn't even important enough in daily life for Him to comment on.

[JuniperLea]

50. I'll take that challenge one step further...

show me one scripture where Jesus or God FORCE anyone to "obey God's law". God gave us free will... if (s)he didn't want us to have the choice, (s)he wouldn't have given it to us.

[rucky]

10. Matthew 25 - Have you seen this site?

www.matthew25.org

[cjsmom44]

21. Great Site! and Thoughts on Christian Judgement.....

As a DU Christian...I would say that "there are those who call themselves Christian...and then there are those who walk the walk of Christianity...As a Christian...I would NEVER judge another persons spirituality as somehow inferior to my own faith...to do that would be arrogant and presumptuous.
Only the God/Goddess or the great creator who sees all truth can see into another's heart. I truly believe that those who somehow think that they have the true and only faith are only kidding themselves...God will have the last word....

[JohnMcCant2008]

22. It's sad that religion plays any part in our elections - positive, negative or otherwise......

I think there was a bit in our Constitution about religion and it's role in our government.... Hmmmmm. Does anybody even read that old, outdated rag anymore..........
:sarcasm:

[cjsmom44]

23. Couldn't Agree More...

I also feel strongly that Religion should be kept OUT of politics...and it is sad that there is so much emphasis put on Religion. The GOP are gone WAY too far into the muddy waters of mixing the two.
As voters we can express our views...but as for politicians who constantly beat the drum beat of "good American Values" as code language for a "Christian America", nothing is more offensive to me...It somehow is to imply that those who are not Christian are not "American"? How sick is that?
Our founding fathers knew that Religion and our Country's Constitution should NOT mix....

[mscuedawg]

30. Thank you...Thank you...Thank you...Thank you!!!

I was just in my hometown this weekend and attended the church that I was married in and a place I have called "home" for many, many years...only to hear from its parishioners hateful things about Senator Obama...I couldnt believe what I was hearing...this website is exactly what my heart needed...Thank you...Thank you...Thank you...

:hug:

[Mimosa]

76. Thanks...I bookmarked it

We're not going to keep letting republicans keep lying and saying God is on their side. ;)

[JohnMcCant2008]

15. most christians are nothing like christ at all...

do something nice for someone today, without taking credit or being recognized in any way and see how good it feels. you don't need a religion or faith or God to give the act purpose. the only thing needed is humanity and the fact it makes you feel good.

it's hard enough for most people to just choose to be human without them having to pick a religious team in order to be "good".

i'd be happy if the majority of the country would set their personal bar at "decent" which is WAY below "jesus-like".

no matter how well-intentioned or passive, organized religions by their very nature are divisive. evangelistic and fundamentalist type religions are in a category all by themselves.

just my humble opinion...


(preachy atheist steps from soapbox)

[Deep13]

17. People who see abortion or stem cell research as murder have their values screwed up.

Invariable, those screwed-up values are the result of deeply-held belief in the impossible. I'm not going to make excuses for Christianity by saying "real" Christians only look at the good parts of the NT. As dangerous as they are, the Fundamentalists at least have the courage of their convictions. The moderates basically take those parts of Christianity that agree with their basically humanist values and disregard the rest.

Christianity contains some attractive elements that moderates like to point to as evidence of its beneficence. Still, its main thrust is that this life is merely a preliminary period to prepare for the afterlife. Further, we are born doomed and must believe in and rely on the blood sacrifice of an Innocent man to somehow redeem us from "sin." When read as a whole, the Fundamentalists are far more faithful to the teachings of the New Testament than moderate Christians are. While moderates pick and choose what to believe and make excuses such as the OT doesn't count anymore or that it has to be read in historical context, the Fundamentalists take the harsh message at face value.

The only reason anyone worships JC in the first place is because we have an ancient holy book that attests to his divinity. If the Bible is the result of divine intervention, then there is no reason to read it from a historical perspective the way one reads Homer or Shakespeare. Presumably god was aware of people's limitations when he directed it to be written. And if is not god's handiwork, then it deserves no preeminence among literature.

The nice things JC supposedly says are not unique to him. Unfortunately, the nasty things about eternal punishment for a difference of opinion even after one is dead were unique to Christianity, at least until Islam came along. For those who say the OT doesn't count anymore, well, that's not what JC says in the New Testament. For those that think JC is the embodiment of compassion and love, that is not what the NT says. The charitable line in the OP makes it clear that the purpose of charity is not to eliminate suffering, but to prepare the worshiper to meet JC. How is that charity as opposed to self serving?

I want to emphasize that I did not bring up this subject. Having been brought up, I have as much right as anyone to speak my mind on it. Skeptics do not have a special duty to shut-up. The problem here is that irrational belief in divinity causes that divinity to replace common decency whatever that deity claims is good. We need to stop assuming that godly means good.

[riqster]

19. Fundagelicals follow the Apostle Paul, not Jesus nt

[Bluenorthwest]

20. I'd add the Iraqi suffering

and that of the prisoners, who are specifically named among the least of these. I just love your post. The fundies are in fact Paulists. They are not followers of Jesus. And the difference is vast.

[LPH]

26. .

Its democrats that wouldn't a clue who Jesus was. Why blame republican for the economic crisis when all the evidence leads the fact that democrats caused all these economic problems?

As far as Iraq I should remind you that it was both democrats and republican who supported the war. Clinton and many other prominent democrats supported invading Iraq.

[Deep13]

29. Most of the regulars on this board would agree that the Congressional D.s...

...should have stood up to Bush. Nevertheless, it was his recklessness in spending, borrowing and policy that has put us in this position.

[EastTennesseeDem]

33. .

"Its democrats that wouldn't a clue who Jesus was. Why blame republican for the economic crisis when all the evidence leads the fact that democrats caused all these economic problems?"

Talk about reinforcing the stereotype...

[LynneSin]

82. BTW - welcome to DU

:hi:

[noel711]

36. Hello LPH, welcome to DU....

If you'd read a few posts here, you'd learn real quickly
that there are MANY democrats who know quite intimately
who Jesus is, and many here, like me, are pastors.

And I'm sure you'll learn that much of our economic mess
is/was caused by the lack of regulation in the markets,
a trend that was pushed by the republican administrations,
and allowed thru by folks who are more concerned with padding
the pockets of those who benefit by the unregulated economy.
Why is regulation such a big deal?
We need rules and laws to ensure that indeed we have a secure nation,
and prevent selfish people from individual, unfair gain.
Or to put it in the context of faith:
the Law prevents the misuse of the innocent by the unscrupulous.

And the democrats who voted for the Iraq war were led to believe
that Iraq, and those responsible for the tragedy of 9-11 were the same.
We've wised up since then, eh?

But I digress...
Great thread, Lynn...

Jesus was a divine master; his words still speak today,
for those who listen.

Sadly, too many folks pick and choose from scripture and select
words out of context that they use to blast and oppress others.
As I say often, you can find anything in the Bible to justify
anything you believe. Including slavery, oppression of women,
and all kinds of self justification.

What's most important is to be able to understand the context in
which something is said, know the purpose, and the reason why
the words were said.

Jesus was the master of compassion and forgiveness.
Jesus was NOT about condemning, or excluding.


p.s.... in ancient times, there was little understanding or
experience of abortion (but it did develop in the times of
the Roman empire...if you are interested in the historical
view of that, PM me)
However, the book of Exodus 21:22 has a little comment on something
we might consider abortion: "If peole are fighting and injure
a pregnant woman, and induce miscarraige, the one who is responsible
must be fined..." NO comment about severe punishment. To the ancients,
a baby's life begins at birth.

(The comment about: "Before I formed you in womb,I knew you..."
is from the 'call' of Jeremiah, and refers to his being anointed
as a prophet. This is NOT meant for everyone. But, in the context
of faithfulness, God knows all his children, even those who never
make it to take a breath. )

The Holy SCriptures were written over a long period of time
to a culture very different from ours. They had a very different
world view, and were most interested in survival.

[Mimosa]

78. Beautiful commentary, Noel711

Interesting commentary, Noel.

I hope we shall experience a refreshing of our spirits with new leaders. I hope those who have sown hatred and division will be quieted for a while so the healing can begin.

[Shakespeare]

38. Is it a coincidence that I'm sitting here eating pizza-flavored Pringles?

I think not.

[Jamastiene]

39. *sigh*

[LynneSin]

41. How so? Have you actually READ the gospels and not the truncated bible that freepers preach from?

The old testament is HISTORY - how society lead up to the coming of Jesus Christ. When the apostles asked which old testament laws were the most important, Jesus retorted 2 things - the 10 Commandments (which lets face it - common sense laws there) and to 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. Tell me where did Jesus say "Homosexuality is a sin' or 'Abortion is a Sin'

Jesus also lived the life of poverty. He had no job, no money, no home and relied on the kindness of strangers for food & shelter. Jesus also said it was easier for a camel to get thru the eye of a needle that for a rich man to get into the kingdom of heaven. Yet everyday you can turn on TV and see a tele-fundie reaching thru the TV set screwing over the poor to claim more of their money whilst living high on the hog in riches. Tell me, how is that Christian?

What Fundamentalists and, I suspect, you believe in is Paul. Paul was responsible for spreading Christianity throughout the land in his bid to create a Christian Kingdom - convert or die mentality. The words that many fundamentalists preach of is not those of Jesus but of Paul and his bid to convert all and screw the true message of Jesus.

As for who to blame for this economic crisis - well republicans owned the ship for 6 years pushing thru Bush's tax cuts to benefit the wealthy. And as for the war, the democrats supported Bush going to the UN to get support for the war if it was proven there was reason. Bush did not follow that law but instead did his own thing and look where that got us.

[Jamastiene]

55. Bingo!

:thumbsup:

[MrScorpio]

42. You ought to lay off huffing auto exhause fumes

It hurts your brain

[KitchenWitch]

43. Wow, my buddy list was getting a bit small...Thanks for helping repopulate it!

:hi:

[Lyric]

44. What evidence???

You mean the same evidence that you have for God's existence? The kind that's only convincing because you REALLY REALLY WANT to believe it, dammit?

:eyes:

God you people are stupid. Please do the world a favor and refrain from breeding.

[LynneSin]

45. Wait, I'm a Christian - I hope that wasn't geared towards me too

I do believe in God, it's a personal choice of mine. However, I believe in the teachings of Jesus - ie what he did during the 4 books of the Gospels (and some of the gnostics too). I am NOT a fundie/Paulist like this freeper. Please don't lump us into the same category!

[Lyric]

51. I didn't, Lynne.

I didn't make any judgement statements about Christians or Christianity at all, other than to indirectly profess my *own* belief that there is no evidence for God's existence, just like there is no evidence that the Democrats are to blame for the fiscal mess, and that this person believes in both only because he/she really, really WANTS it to be true. It isn't "lumping" to express my *own* beliefs.

Please don't see insult where there isn't any.

[jakefrep]

46. We might not know if Jesus is among us....

because the Goddamned republicans would have shipped him to Gitmo.

[TZ]

49. So uh the GREAT economy under Clinton

THat was all because of the Republicans right? But after EIGHT YEARS of bills being signed BY THE REPUBLICAN president its the Democrats fault? RIIIIGHT.

[Lyric]

53. A Republican President with a Republican Congress for the majority of his term, no less!

Those Democrats must have some wicked voodoo legislative magic to overcome THAT.

Oh noes!111 Maybe they HYPNOTIZED the Republicans!!!

:wow:

[CitizenPatriot]

54. I hope you realize how untrue this is.

Jesus was a liberal and he certainly would not have condoned you coming on this forum to pass judgment on people you have never met.

All evidence does not lead to the fact that the Democrats caused this economic failing. It is too bad that you are more interested in blame than in dealing with the reality of the problem.

Deregulation caused the melt down on wall Street, and that is the Republican Mantra. Greed was allowed to take a hold, as the lobbyists ran the government instead of the government working for the people.

Dems didn't have a majority in congress until 2 years ago, and even that is dubious due to Lieberman.

Truly, there were many factors that went into this melt down...but the responsibility lay with the 8 years of the Bush admin and the Repub rule for 6, during which they passed many free market deregulation bills and ignored the pleas of the states who petitioned the Republican controlled congress to hear their concerns over the sub-prime mess.

But if it makes you happy to deny reality and place false blame on another group, thereby avoiding solving the problem, but allowing it to fester under the surface -- I can only say I hope the rest of the country is more interested in solving problems than in saving face.

Any economist worth their salt, Dem and Republican alike, have come out against the Republican "free market" meme. clearly, it does not work. the solution should be enough to tell you that, since the Republicans had to Nationalize (fascism) the banks in this country with tax payer (middle class) money. Trickle up economics? Not working.

[OhioChick]

56. Interesting....

I'm a Christian, know who Jesus is.....and a Democrat. Imagine that.

Go home, troll. :popcorn:

[elshiva]

57. Fuck off, troll. "Democrats wouldn't have a clue who Jesus was."

What a fucking stereotype. Enjoy your granite pizza.

[LostinVA]

59. I personally think it's them damned Godless Gays!!!!!!

[Critters2]

60. Here's the difference between the site where you usually live and DU.

In freeperville, messages attacking the Rethugs aren't even posted. They'd be censored before seeing the light of day.

Here, we really do believe in free speech, civil liberties, all of that.

You're a moran, but at least we let you say so publicly.

You're welcome.

[DainBramaged]

61. Hi there, do you remember me from your last attempt at humor here?

You scumbags don't have a fucking clue.

Awwww you're gone, so sad, too bad.

PIZZA TIME!!!

[Solon]

62. Oooh, damn, aren't you pathetic, how, pray tell, are Democrats responsible for this crisis?

:eyes:

[elshiva]

67. CLENIS is responsible for all the wrongs in this world.

:sarcasm:

[libodem]

64. Joe the Plumber

is that you?

[LaydeeBug]

65. JESUS, who was a LIBERAL JEW, rode the DONKEY while the $$ above all greedmongers rode the ELEPHANT.

check yer King James, asshole.

[AwakeAtLast]

66. Republican deregulation that gave even more money to the ultra-rich

is what caused this mess.

BTW, I am the wife of an Iraq War Veteran. He knows who has lied and who has not. He's voting for Obama. :D

Toodles! :hi:

[rasputin1952]

68. Discussion w/this individual should be by prayer/seance/or any

other means of talking w/the deceased as this one is now spinning off into nuclear hell.

Just thought I'd let you all know...and FWIW, IMO, the teachings of Jesus speak volumes as to what a true "liberal/progressive" would be. The basic tenets of his thought were the exposure of hypocrisy; the fair treatment of the poor and the ailing; empathy; justice and a host of other, "socialist" ideas.

[edbermac]

69. Didn't we invade Iraq to disarm all those WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION?

Iraq has WMD's...WMD's...WMD's...WMD's...that was the mantra from BushCo as the reason for invasion.

We found any yet??

Hmmm??

And as far as your religious comment, I quote the immortal song lyric by Frank Zappa..."Jesus thinks you're a jerk."

[mokawanis]

70. Praise the lord and pass me a ballot

Your boy McLiar is getting whipped like a rented mule.
Bush lied, people died.
Fuck off.

[H2O Man]

77. Oh my gosh!

Tomb-stoned after only three posts? How did that happen?

[cjsmom44]

79. Speak for yourself Troll

Anyone who would claim that he/she knows what a true Christian is, is NOT a Christian at all..How dare you...and how Blasphemous. God forgive you....
Signed
A true BLUE Christian...and proud member of DU :grr:

[PVnRT]

87. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm pizza

My favorite.

[seemunkee]

27. What Gandhi said

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Mahatma Gandhi

[juno jones]

28. I'm pagan

But the Sermon on the Mount ROCKS!

[GeorgeGist]

32. Jesus never wrote a word ...

as far as I am aware.

[LynneSin]

47. You're right - it was stories passed thru the generations

but consider the message that was found in the 4 gospels along with the gnostics. These are some groundwork for common sense everyday living. Even if you don't believe in God it doesn't mean you have to turn away from the message that Jesus tried to show us. Gandhi was not Christian but considered Jesus one of his greatest role models if only for Jesus's message of treating everyone as equals and without judgement. Whomever wrote those messages had a good message to share with all.

[Orsino]

34. The Prince of Peace has no place at a McCain rally.

I imagine that He would be arrested while attempting to drive out the moneylenders.

[RepublicanElephant]

35. today's gop would consider the real Jesus to be anti-american. n/t

[bullwinkle428]

88. Michelle Bachmann would be leading that torch-wielding mob!

[Maeve]

40. At the risk of repeating myself...

I was hungry and you cut my food stamps. Thirsty, and you told me to drink bottled water if I wanted it to be safe. Sick and alone, and you said there was no money for health care or visiting nurses; in prison, and you told me to rot.

[JuniperLea]

52. It was well worth repeating, Maeve!

Thanks for that.

:hi:

[crossroads]

48. Methinks Jesus would not even want to be a Christian today!

What evil deeds have they done in His name? Good post! Thank you...
CR

[LynneSin]

81. Technically - Jesus was never a Christian

that came after his death & resurrection.

[Waiting For Everyman]

71. The Old Testament prophets had a lot to say about the poor too.

It's a major theme. Couldn't miss it if they tried.

[TexasObserver]

72. Following the teachings of the Rabbi Jesus, and being a Christian, are not the same.

Christianity is a religion with several main branches and many, many offshoots. The dogma most of them teach and follow has virtually nothing to do with Jesus, and much to do with crafting a religion that comforts its adherents.

Same as it always was and will always be with religions, which are about their adherents and their desires for control and ego gratification on earth.

The man we refer to as Jesus was a reformer who fought against injustice and archaic laws. He condemned almost everything you find on a given Sunday morning in a church that bears some or all of the title "the Christ," a Greek word Jesus never used or heard.

If you want to find a place the real Jesus and his actual teachings would not be welcome, find a big church with the word "Christ" or "Christian" in its name, and you'll be there.

[Mimosa]

74. Well, Jesus may have known some Greek...

Nobody knows whether Jesus knew any Greek. He very well could have as did the early writers of the Gospels, Tex. Some scholars have speculated about jesus being somewhat Platonist.

I wouldn't say all churches with Christ in their names are terrible. I attended a couple, one catholic, another Anglican/Catholic. And they were filled with small congregations of loving kind people.

[TexasObserver]

75. Right. And he may been able to fly.

There is no support for your proposition. You might as well say "Jesus might have known geometry."

And small "Christian" congregations tend to be full of loving people IF YOU'RE EXACTLY LIKE THEM.

[Mimosa]

80. No reason to get snippy, Tex, on a warm spiritual thread. :(

Tex, I lived in New Orleans for 18 years and I can tell you my church experiences were as I said. Nobody was exactly alike, either. Maybe in Texas your experiences have been different. I've only gone to evangelical pentecostal churches a few times. Didn't like them. I've been to Catholic churches, Spiritualist Voudoun churches, Orthodox churches, Episcopalian churches, Anglican churches. None of those I can generalise about.

I've studied about Jesus and his world, his era, all my life. If at 12 he was astounding the rabbis in the Temple with his knowledge he was probably a pretty sharp kid. Joseph, being a skilled carpenter, was probably paid well, since he had to pay taxes. Jesus own descent was allegedly royal. There is speculation about what he may have been doing before his ministry began at the age of 30. Was he studying with the Essenes? Nobody can say for sure. many people during the time were multilingual. It is my opinion that Jesus was a man of learning.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9094/jesusplato.html

[TexasObserver]

84. We agree he was a man who knew much more than his immediate environment.

I see the EAST as his influences, however, not the WEST.

I find it plausible that he traveled east as far as Tibet, and brought back with him the teachings of those in the east who predate him by hundreds of years.

Yes, there are some good churches, but if you will think about the process (and the big churches I particularly cite), you will have to agree that most churches spend most of their money on (1) church personnel salaries, (2) buildings, and (3) utilities to run those buildings. They aren't about Jesus or his wisdoms.

And the Catholic church? Please. It's the longest existing crime organization in the world, the perpetrator of more evil against gays, non Christians, and indigenous peoples in the history of the world, with a few exceptions. Big churches are big business, and little else.

[Mimosa]

73. LynneSin, you've touched my heart and probably many

Your message is warm and beautiful. No matter what our individual beliefs we all hope that the future will be better than the past. As somebody who had to move away from NOLA after Katrina I was touched that you mentioned all of us whose lives were thrown off course by hurricanes. Many of us are suffering from financial uncertainty.

The right wing hypocrites have tried to make the Creator in their own petty images. They have made people of heart and conscience -including christians such as myself- feel sickened when they preach hatred and division.

My prayer is that healing will begin when the pharisees are thrown out. My prayer is that we shall move forward in trust, respect and love, not reveling in hatred and fear-mongering as many republicans have done.

Maybe the Creator will again smile on all of us when our elected leaders are good people.

I'm hearing a New Orleans version of "Down by the Riverside" playing in my mind. "Ain't going to study war no more..."

[bronxiteforever]

83. Good points mimosa

:hi:

[IsItJustMe]

85. I have thought along the same lines as you have here and I have come to the conclusion long ago that

if Jesus came back, it would be the right wing Christians who would be the first group of people in this country to call him un-American, unpatriotic, and a socialist. They would be the first group that would hang him up again.

While I am not a religious person, and at one point in my life a very anti-religious person, to me, there is no other greater symbol that has every been told about how when Jesus was on the cross he looked out upon the crowd and said, "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do."

Although I fall way short of type of love, it's a goal none-the-less.

[OwnedByFerrets]

86. No, No, No.....you can only quote those parts of the bible

that call for killing and retribution....all the other references to love and peace are sooooooo BC.

[barack the house]

89. Exactly it's time they actually read their bible if not possible someone read it to them.