Powell STILL SUPPORTS the bush regime's war against Iraq.

[LynnTheDem]

YES his words about Muslim-Americans was absolutely correct and right.

THANK YOU for those words, Powell.

YES he did the right thing by endorsing Sen. Obama.

THANK YOU for that endorsement, Powell.

Hell fucking NO he doesn't deserve "forgiveness" for being part of Cpl. Kan's death, for the 4500 other US deaths; for the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, for the 45,000 grievously wounded Americans and God/Allah only knows how many Iraqis.

Powell has NEVER ASKED to be forgiven for his role in the death and carnage of the illegal unprovoked war against the people of Iraq, and he STILL SUPPORTS the illegal unprovoked war against the people of Iraq.

IF Powell ever does denounce his role in the carnage still happening, THEN I'll try to be what I try to be and try for forgiveness.

But as a US military spouse living with what Powell has helped to cause, it'll be bloody fucking tough to do.


Powell: Support for Obama doesn't mean Iraq war wrong
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/powell.transcript/

[BlooInBloo]

1. The DU mob has already declated they don't care about anything but endorsing Obama.

[babylonsister]

2. Aren't you self-righteous. Yes, that's where I'm at. Powell removed

himself, and his legacy is tarnished forever, but if he can help Obama, I'm grateful. I'm looking to the future.

[LynnTheDem]

3. Yes so I've noticed.

And I'm a wee bit fucking furious about it. Shaking, actually.

I'm trying to convince myself it's not all about endorsing Obama, it's n ot "party uber alles" a la the rightwingnuttery.

I'm trying to convince myself it's just the loving souls we liberals tend tohave.

And then I remember my friend, a dad, finally breaking down at his army son's funeral; "My boy...my baby boy..."


Powell still supports invading Iraq, has never denounced his role in it, has never asked forgiveness for what he's fucking done.

If more DUers saw in person just what he has done, they'd not be so quick to offer him "redemption" he's never bloody asked for.

[ProSense]

5. Do you thing this calls

Obama's judgment into question?

[LynnTheDem]

7. I disagree with Obama's words regarding Powell.

Absolutely.

I will vote for Obama.

I will not "forgive" a man who is part of the cause of massive suffering still on-going, who still supports what he did and what George W. bush did, who has never asked for forgiveness.

Why is it we cannot say THANKS POWELL for his endorsement of Obama, THANKS POWELL for his true and proper words regarding Muslim-Americans, WITHOUT suddenly speaking of "redemption" and "forgiveness" of a man who has never sought either and who still supports what he's done???!

[ProSense]

19. If the Iraq war is ever investigated,

Colin Powell will be held accountable for something, but he will not be charged with war crimes.

[Ian David]

4. I still think Powell should go fuck himself.

The guy wrote an autobiography and confessed nothing and implicated no one else.

And for the record, I'm the militant Atheist who stood-up to defend Tammy Faye Baker on this board, because I felt that SHE had sufficiently redeemed herself.

But Colin Powell...

This is a start.

But no.

So, fuck him.

But we should still accept his endorsement of our candidate graciously for what it is, and use it as a stick with which to poke the reich-wing Conservatards who carried water for him through out his tenure under Bush.

When Colin Powell stood in front of the cameras and spoke to me, I believed him.

I didn't believe Bush.

But I believed Powell.

He fooled me into supporting this most tragic, Orwellian nightmare from the day he spoke to The United Nations and lied to us, until the day I saw the art museums being looted.

For a brief period, Colin Powell had recruited me into what may as well have been The Nazi Party.

So yeah, until he confesses, repents, and starts naming names, then I wish upon him a slow, lingering, undignified death by natural causes as soon as possible.

[kid a]

15. DU mob? Sounds like kool-aid was once in your vocabuary too. nt

[bowens43]

63. Actually, YOU sound like 'the mob'

[HughMoran]

6. So who gives a flying fuck

Can you imagine if every endorsement, Dem or Republican, was held to the same level of scrutiny that the attention seekers here on DU have held Powell to. Your 5 minutes are up.

[LynnTheDem]

9. Yes my "5 minutes are up"; but I have to live the rest of my life with the result of

what Powell has done to my military husband, to my military friends.

But never mind them, because you don't give a flying fuck anyways.

[endthewar]

14. The buck stops on one desk.

[scrappydo]

16. My son is on his third tour of duty in Iraq, my nephew on his second...

But they, like me, admire General Powell like many other military families. I am SO SICK of the DUers who are so righteous. Get off your damn high horses already!

[HughMoran]

17. It's just a goddamn fucking endorsement!!!!

Jesus fucking Christ, you'd think he was taking Biden's spot as VP.

I care about our future as a nation, you care about your own personal life (as you've made perfectly clear). Nice team player you are. :eyes:

[LynnTheDem]

18. Which is what I've been saying; can we not JUST SAY THANKS

POWELL for the endorsement, and THANKS POWELL for his words re M<uslim-Americans...MUST WE ALSO go on and on about "forgiveness" and "redemption", especially when that motherfucker has not only never asked for same, he STILL SUPPORTS what he did.


I'm glad he endorsed Obama.

I'm glad he spoke out about Muslims, American and otherwise.

Period.

[defendandprotect]

25. Right . . I'm sure it will encourage votes for Obama...make people think...

but let's not sell our souls and brainwash ourselves because a criminal sees what a jerk

McCain and the GOP are -- !!!

[HughMoran]

26. Same here - I'm glad he endorsed Obama too

If your in disagreement with Skinner, why not go after him in his thread?

He's unlikely to post in yours.

Oh, and as much as I hate Republicans, I also believe that some can be redeemed through their words and actions.

[endthewar]

35. I think Powell's words about Muslim Americans deserve special credit

He has spoken out more forcefully on this topic than any other politician on the national stage right now.

[rebel with a cause]

61. Why don't you take that up with Skinner.

After all he is the head guy here and he is the one that said redemption. Please get off this subject for once and for all. We have had a day of this and I am sick of even seeing these threads.

[Skittles]

21. but don't you see, Lynn?

now that Colin digs Obama ALL IS FORGIVEN!!!!!!!!! :puke:

[Zhade]

53. I'm sorry, has every endorser gone to the U.N. and willfully lied to help launch an illegal war?

If so, we're in worse shape than I thought.

[endthewar]

8. Should we throw Hillary under the bus for never truly apologizing for the Iraq War vote?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

10. Isnt that at least a little bit what exactly happened?

[endthewar]

12. Not voting for her isn't the same as throwing her under the bus

I'm glad that you can see the difference. :eyes:

Right now Hillary is helping Obama to get elected.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. She got thrown under the primary bus in part because of her vote for the war

and her refusal to clearly say it was wrong. I'm glad
youre not in so much denial that you can see that. :puke:

[endthewar]

28. You seem to believe that she was entitled to the nomination

That all she had to do was show up for her coronation instead of earning the votes. Sorry, but that's not how the Dem nomination process works. If Powell was on the Republican ticket, none of us here would vote for him either.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

30. I couldnt care less about her or her campaign; youre the one who brought her up

& compared her pro-war vote to Powell's pro-war actions.
I simply called horseshit on your comparison and on both
of their stands for the war. They are both
paying the price for their collusion in that evil & insane war,
and the fact you dont like people pointing that out is not relevant.
I am perfectly able to value Powell's endorsement for what it is,
and see no reason to therefore close my eyes to his selling
of the lies that caused the war. Why are you forgiving him for
acts he has no need for forgiveness for, and in fact acts which he
still defends and stands behind to this day?

[endthewar]

32. Why do you love Republican victories so much?

Just curious. Perhaps you should look closely at the McCain and Republican Party platform to figure out what's at stake two weeks from now. Personally, I don't mind if some registered Republicans are thinking about Colin Powell's endorsement when they walk into the election booth.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

37. Why do you have your bean so far up your caboose?

Just curious. Just because you are a little slow and simple
and cannot hold two thoughts in your sort of dull brain
at the same time:

1. Endorsement, good,
2. unrepentant war salesman, not so good;

doesnt mean others of us are also incapable.

Who do you think is simple enough to change their vote because
10 or 20% or DUers disagree with you on this point?
Youre not that unsimple yourself, but youre not going to
change your vote, are you?

[endthewar]

42. Thanks :-)

"unsimple"? :eyes:

Also, step aside while the rest of us pick up your burden and win this election. I can take another 2 weeks of your attacks on my intellect, but the American people can't take another 4 years of Bush-McCain policies. :patriot:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

43. Again, don't be afraid to hold 2 apparently contradictory thoughts in your mind

at the same time. Try it. It won't kill you. Your head won't explode.
You might even enjoy it. It may expand your perception
and increase your courage to allow other people to have opinions
which disagree with yours, without having to stoop to
accuse them of being Republicans. Or not.

[endthewar]

48. A wise politician told me last week

to never underestimate the ability of Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I now understand what he meant. I can take 2 more weeks of your attacks on my intellect, but the country that I love can't take 4 more years of neoconservative rule! :patriot:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

52. LOFL, youre enjoying my attacks on your intellect, you rascal!

And I dont blame you! :hi:

[endthewar]

54. It says more about you than it does about me

It's not your fault that you are who you are. People are shaped by their life experiences, so there is something in your past experiences to explain this, I'm sure.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

57. You are introduced to a new, more free way of thinking and you call it an attack.

And now youre all set to psychoanalyze someone who
only wants to help you and liberate you from your
fearful way of thinking and seeing the world. Tut tut.
You seriously fear that the election will be lost because
a few people on the internet accept the endorsement
but reject the unrepentant war salesman? Can you see
how utterly delusional your thinking is? A wild guess: No.

[endthewar]

59. Kick!

Just a token reply to give yourself a platform for another message since you obviously love hearing yourself speak so much. :rofl:

If Obama can take millions of vicious robocalls, then I can take another baseless attack from you. :patriot:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

60. You gratuitously kick a thread that you think is going to help lose the election!?

Mmm-kay. Kind of reverse-reverse-reverse psychology, Doctor? :*

[LynnTheDem]

11. Nope; but should we "forgive" her and "redeem" her when she hasn't asked

for either?

For some silly reason, I thought the black-white/all-or-nothing was strictly a rightwing thing.

[endthewar]

13. Nobody's talking about complete redemption and forgiveness

We're just asking people to stop trying to grab defeat from the jaws of victory, that's all.

[defendandprotect]

24. STOP ....there was a proclamation of redemption . . . let's not pretend.

[Zhade]

55. Um, you must not have read all the posts wherein powell was forgiven and called "redeemed".

And here's the big fat WRONG in your premise - Obama didn't even need this shitheel criminal endorsing him. He was doing just fine without powell.

[Skittles]

22. YES

it's why I did not support her

[LynnTheDem]

58. And does she say she still supports bush's decision to attack Iraq?

Powell does.

I haven't heard whether Clinton says she still supports bush's illegal unprovoked war against the people of Iraq.

[crossroads]

20. Many have expressed mixed feelings on this endorsement!

Personally I lost respect for Powell long time ago... BUT - I am willing to lay my feelings about him aside! It's called compromise! If we continue to express anger over this issue it only divides us and Obama carries the spirit of unity! I want to see Obama in the WH more than I wish to see Powell crucified... let's get real people! Don't win the battle of who is right and lose this war!
We have waited too long for this moment to deny ourselves the victory by infighting!
:dem:
CR

[endthewar]

29. There you go again, trying to win an election for the Dems

Why do you hate war in South Ossetia and Abkhazia so much? :sarcasm:

[Captain Hilts]

31. So, was Obama's switch on FISA, and the DC gun ban okay with you too?

Just curious.

[endthewar]

33. Yep. I'm still voting for Obama.

Nobody here is voting for Powell.

[Captain Hilts]

36. I'm voting for Obama as well, and have volunteered for him. But all the folks...

calling Obama a progressive need to realize he's a politician. Just as Bill Clinton was.

[endthewar]

41. Well, he's definitely not a conservative

In fact, everybody keeps calling him a socialist. I'm actually worried that he might be too far to the left. :rofl:

[HughMoran]

34. Can't stay on topic?

You're off the reservation again.

[Zhade]

56. Here's the thing: if people weren't so unwilling to accept the OP's stance...

...which is "thanks, but you're still not off the hook for what you did", we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

But too many here are rewriting history, even to the point of saying powell DID NOTHING WRONG, to not comment on the absolute horseshit nature of those remarks.

And, as I keep reminding people, Obama didn't even need this endorsement.

[defendandprotect]

23. A sad but GREAT point ---

And I imagine there's lots he's covering up for with Bush/Cheney --

while I don't imagine he knows it all, I'm sure he could testify to quite a bit!

[LynnTheDem]

38. THANK YOU, Powell, for your endorsement of Obama.

THANK YOU, Powell, for your great words regarding Muslims.

And DAMN YOU to hell, Powell, for your "never blinking support" of George W. bUsh's illegal unprovoked war on a nation -that you STILL support- that has caused millions of casualties; 45oo dead Americans, hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, record level suicides, Iraqis and Americans so scarred, so disfigured, many barely recognizable as human...

You haven't asked for forgiveness for that which you helped cause, and that you, in your own words today said you still support. And redemption is for those who ask for it, which you have not.

Damn you to hell, you MFer.


Just my opinion...

[Occam Bandage]

39. Powell is a lying, cowardly douchebag. But I'm glad to have his endorsement.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

40. You make it sound so simple,

which it is.

[LynnTheDem]

44. A recent reply I posted to someone I highly regard;

It's apples and oranges...

One can be happy Powell endorsed Obama, and happy Powell spoke out as he did re Muslims.

That's apples.

Just because Powell did the above 2, does not mean he should thus be "forgiven" and "redeemed", especially when he still supports bush's unprovoked war of aggression against Iraq, and asks for neither forgiveness nor redemption. Of course, one can't ask forgiveness and redemption of something one still supports.

That's the oranges.

I just wish we could post the apples on DU, and realize the oranges have nothing to do with it.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

45. Thanks.

"We forgive you, General Powell!"

"For what?"

[LynnTheDem]

46. Exactly.

He doesn't want forgiveness; he still fucking supports their war of aggression!

[kath]

47. Oh, man - catch this (from the article in the OP)

"My role has been very, very straightforward. I wanted to avoid a war. The president agreed with me. We tried to do that. We couldn't get it through the U.N. and when the president made the decision, I supported that decision. And I've never blinked from that. I've never said I didn't support a decision to go to war.

And the war looked great until the 9th of April, when the statue fell, everybody thought it was terrific. And it was terrific. The troops had done a great job."


He's clearly not repentant at all. All that blood on his hands, and still he's not sorry...

[LynnTheDem]

50. But we must "forgive" and "redeem" him for something he still supports.

Coz apparently we can't appreciate his endorsement of Obama and his great words on Muslims while still thinking him a MFing POS for supporting their illegal unprovoked war of aggression against the people of Iraq.

[endthewar]

51. There is ONE decider, not two.

[Zhade]

49. So do a lot of DUers who pretend otherwise, it seems.

And, for the record, powell willfully lied:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jun/02/usa.iraq

Fresh evidence emerged last night that Colin Powell, the US secretary of state, was so disturbed about questionable American intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction that he assembled a secret team to review the information he was given before he made a crucial speech to the UN security council on February 5.

Mr Powell conducted a full-dress rehearsal of the speech on the eve of the session at his suite in the Waldorf Astoria, his New York base when he is on UN business, according to the authoritative US News and World Report.

Much of the initial information for Mr Powell's speech to the UN was provided by the Pentagon, where Paul Wolfowitz, the US deputy defence secretary, set up a special unit, the Office of Special Plans, to counter the uncertainty of the CIA's intelligence on Iraq.

Mr Powell's team removed dozens of pages of alleged evidence about Iraq's banned weapons and ties to terrorists from a draft of his speech, US News and World Report says today. At one point, he became so angry at the lack of adequate sourcing to intelligence claims that he declared: "I'm not reading this. This is bullshit," according to the magazine.

Presented with a script for his speech, Mr Powell suspected that Washington hawks were "cherry picking", the US magazine Newsweek also reports today. Greg Theilmann, a recently retired state department intelligence analyst directly involved in assessing the Iraqi threat, says that inside the Bush administration "there is a lot of sorrow and anger at the way intelligence was misused".

[countryjake]

62. Kick & Recommend! Very well said! n/t

[tomp]

64. i predict powell will find a place in the obama administration. nt

[WinkyDink]

65. On the outside looking in. The "Powell Doctrine" of "overwhelming force" is to be

condemned, in retrospect. Yes, he had "questions" that "needed" to be answered beforehand, but that all went to Hades on a hand-cart re: Iraq, did it not? Not to mention it was supposed to "explain" why we "lost" VietNam---just not enough "overwhelming force", napalm and pilot McCain notwithstanding.
http://marccooper.com/the-powell-doctrine-ovewhelming-force/

[tomp]

66. agreed. but why this response to my post?

the point of my post is that obama is not so different from the republicans, most notably in the area of foreign policy. I predict he will be "tagged" by obama in some capacity to show the world exactly that.