this "socialism" charge must be taken very seriously *CONCERNED*

[Essene]

First of all, let me just say it... Obama has run a nearly flawless campaign. However, he made one of the most disastrous mistakes when he uttered 3 words in the last week: "spread the wealth."

Sure, we can discuss how they were taken out of context until we are blue in the face. It doesn't matter.

Mccain is going to leverage this "socialism" fear and smear until the election is over.

This latest charge cannot be defeated by mere retort and civil discourse. Mccain has tied it to the wider character assassinations, and his "what do you REALLY know about obama?" line... and the overall "obama isn't being truthful" argument.

This charge has legs, folks.

Why?

My final point is that the ECONOMY is what is driving the wave of support among independents towards Obama. Mccain finally has a simple message: Obama is a socialist.

Let's understand that the vast majority of americans have the "bail out" and think it's some type of socialism, which is partially why the GOP have experienced such a backlash. Mccain's trying to pin everything on Obama.

Let's not underestimate the impact of this simple name calling.

CONCERNED

http://www.glenkerrycats.co.uk/resources/Cat+in+Box.JPG

[donco6]

1. Essene concerned again?

Who'd a thunk it. :eyes:

[Essene]

7. Yes =D

[HughMoran]

20. You read my mind

I really don't need this sort of negative reinforcement in these sorts of threads :(

[BlooInBloo]

62. He must have a very hard life.

[LynnTheDem]

2. Yes, same as with their "LIBERAL" charge.

Actually, I don't take them seriously at all.

If they truly want what they think they want, they will very fast discover it isn't what they wanted at all, and nothing we say to warn them ahead of time is going to do shit.

[bluestateguy]

3. Roosevelt was called a socialist too

He was elected 4 times. Not saying that Obama should not respond, but he just needs to keep talkin gabout the economy.

[azmouse]

4. Seriously?

[joop]

9. cutest cat evah. nt.

[Essene]

17. seriously...

[azmouse]

27. Well...

[Essene]

48. i has plan b iffn plan a dont work

they cant get me with their hatreds!!!!

[azmouse]

68. Oh noes!

[Essene]

84. roar

[VolcanoJen]

5. Oh geez. Every Democratic candidate gets called a socialist.

It's one of the oldest slimeballs they throw. It's just a sign of their desperation. And it proves they're out of ideas, too.

[K Gardner]

6. On a day where Obama drew 100,000, I hope this "CONCERN" doesn't stay at the top of the freakin page

Good lord.

[Essene]

11. Cuz we cant be both concerned and optimistic now, can we?

[Drunken Irishman]

8. They called Clinton a socalist in 1992!

People don't care about that anymore. If this were the 60s, 70s or 80s, maybe, but not now.

[frogcycle]

10. see earlier comments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7504060&mesg_id=7504145

[Essene]

12. 100% agree... but this is reactionary politics, not economic theory...

it's a very loaded word for many people in the swing states.

mccain finally has a simple economic message.


all i am saying is... obama needs to tackle this one on directly and quickly.

[frogcycle]

31. the three words used were unfortunate

but that does not have to cause panic. Those so simpleminded as to respond to single-word soundbites - "terrorist" - "muslim" - "arab" - "socialist" - "democrat" - "n----" are beyond hope anyway.

Bottom line: there are a LOT more people looking for a tax cut and/or some social program help thant there are (pretending to be) looking to buy their boss's business. Only those looking for an excuse to vote against self interest will buy this babble. And if not this, then another word will satisfy them.

This is not a big deal. I do agree he should avoid that phrase. Something like "assure everyone an opportunity" is a bit more palatable.

He was trapped by this plant JTP - suckered into believing hte guy actually was a successful businessman, who, if he were what he claimed to be, would not have been worried about the slight incremental tax load when he was going to be raking in 280 grand/year. It is the knuckledraggers like the real Joe the Fraud who use the straw man as a mask for their bigotry (whether racial or social).

[Essene]

43. It's not about panick. Obama just can't let Mccain get a footing on the economy issues...

I'm with obama... dems cant get too complacent in this election.

I understand folks scream "socialism" all the time, but i dont remember the bushes or dole explicitly calling their opponent a socialist like this before.

Obama has to strike back, hard...

[bornskeptic]

85. True, it sounds more like Barry Goldwater.

How did that work out again?

[Essene]

88. i hope mccain's desperate ploys fall flat... i do...

[Zuiderelle]

13. ROFL!! First Essene says "ignore racism"... next it's "ignore comments about abortion" Now THIS!

:rofl:

You are fucking hilarious in your "concern."

[Essene]

18. i never said to "ignore racism." very sincere...

[Zuiderelle]

24. Oh really? A simple search proves you wrong:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7379774

Essene (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Oct-09-08 06:37 AM
Original message
Dear DU... please don't take the race baiting... PLEASE IGNORE IT Updated at 7:31 PM

Edited on Thu Oct-09-08 06:39 AM by Essene
zomg the republicans did something RACIST today!

zomg the media is doing something RACIST today!

Stop the knee-jerk reactions... relax. :-)

These are ploys... dont bite. USA isn't going to overcome racism this month, folks. Please, stop freaking out about this stuff. Fine, some nuts say obama is muslim. Fine, some magazine wants to stir up dialong about racial superiority. They will say he's born in a foreign land. IGNORE IT.

The point of these are not to have SINCERE dialog about the legitimacy of that non-sense. The entire point is to turn the discussion towards RACE... to get the headlines off the economy, off the real stuff and onto the divisive TRASH. Regardless of what's being said about Obama, the underlying idea is to get people to think about him being... different. DONT TAKE THE BAIT.

Ignore that crud... because this is all the GOP have left.

As far as i am concerned, the bloggers and viral folks on the left need to literally just not ACKNOWLEDGE that nonsense.

Oh Noooooooo! Race baiting, IGNORE IT! but Socialism - BE CONCERNED!!

[Essene]

30. i said to ignore the race BAIT, unless it his mainstream TV. i stand by that...

you want to get personal and nasty, feel free.

but be sincere about what's being said, please...

[Zuiderelle]

39. Where did you say "unless it is mainstream TV" ? I missed that.

:eyes:

But, whatever, you're proving quite tiresome.

[Essene]

49. im the one proving tiresome? you just admitted you missed the entire point lol

yet you want to flame me.

the entire point was that we shouldnt help push the race baiting stuff into the national media.

you missed it, yes.

[Zuiderelle]

53. I didn't admit a thing. Your thread begged people to ignore race-baiting.

And race-baiting and racism have been a part of this campaign cycle from the beginning, and more and more so as we get close to the election. So, how does ignoring it accomplish anything.

I'm very glad that the Obama campaign has NOT ignored it, and has been prepared to fight back every time they've been attacked.

I don't want to flame you, but you appear to want to be flamed. I choose to NOT ignore racism and race-baiting, and I choose to DEAL with charges of socialism, instead of being AFRAID or concerned about them.

[Essene]

57. *sigh* race baiting is not the same as racism.

all you have done is MISREPRESENT and MISUNDERSTAND what ive said, while attacking me.

bye bye.

[Zuiderelle]

72. Actually, race-baiting is racism. It's using others' racism, and is racism itself.

I haven't misrepresented anything you've said. I quoted it in fact.

[Essene]

86. i disagree.

you started off pretentiously misrepresenting what i said.

im not having an argument about racism when you now suddenly want to back-pedal to win an "argument"

[Zuiderelle]

95. Apparently you don't even know what pretentious means.

You make no sense.

[Whalestoe]

14. I though Obama was a liberal, leftist Democrat? Now he's a socialist?

Can't McLoons makes ups his minds?

[Ikonoklast]

15. I give you this, you are relentlessly negative

Your shtick is failing, though. You need to try a different tack.

And, I'm not one of your 'folks'. I hear that another right-wing gasbag uses that term to sound 'folksy', too.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Depends on how you define negative...if you want McCain to win, as Essene does

then this sort of dumb shit is "positive."

[Essene]

28. ya, im gonna just go ahead and report you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. For what?

:rofl:

[Essene]

44. trolling with your "he wants obama to lose" crud...

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. I didn't break any rules

So, feel free.

:rofl:

[Essene]

93. you could just stay on topic and not try to start flame wars =D

and suggesting somebody on here is a freeper/republican/mccain supporter is a sure way to start one.

how are those emoticons treating you?

[alcibiades_mystery]

99. I said you want Obama to lose

And I think you do.

All of your topics revolve around that theme.

Whether that makes you a "McCain supporter" is a different matter altogether.

That your posting form a pathetic whole is obvious enough.

[Ikonoklast]

32. I just think it's amusing to waste so much time and effort in a losing cause

I don't understand it, just laugh at it.

Glaringly obvious.

[Essene]

34. what's obvious is insincerity... e'hem

[Ikonoklast]

82. We know.

We can see.

[The Magistrate]

16. No One, Sir, Not Already Committed To Vote For McCain And Palin, Is Moved In The Slightest

People who call someone or other 'a socialist' are looked at askance by their neighbors, and regarded as cranks if not outright loons. No on cares, no one credits the idea that a main-stream politician running for national office nationwide is about to establish a People's Socialist Republic on inauguration day.

"Laughter is the best medicine."

[Essene]

52. i hope obama doesnt just laugh THIS one off, personally.

obama said not to get complacent.

im with him...

i think mccain suddenly having a crystal clear (albeit absurd) charge of "socialism" as his way to funnel the frustration and anger on the economy... must be taken seriously.

[The Magistrate]

63. Laughter, Sir, Is A Very Powerful Weapon

What people have once been moved to laugh at they can seldom be brought to regarding seriously ever again....

[Essene]

67. If Obama can get people to laugh at the charge, I'll be happy.

And i sense a lot of the complacency Obama warned against, here...

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Eseene is always concerned

Probably because Essene really, really, really doesn't want Obama to win the election.

[Essene]

25. ahh... now im being called a FREEPER. i guess you felt this way when obama said to be concerned....

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. Who called you that?

I just think you want Obama to lose the election. You could be a member in good standing here and even a loyal, if deeply disturbed and misguided, Democrat.

Your pattern of posting here certainly implies precisely that. And it's pretty sad that you're still not over it, poor thing.

[Essene]

46. well, you think i want obama to lose. and i think you are trolling. we're even.

[alcibiades_mystery]

78. The difference is that I don't get upset about it

largely because I know nobody else here would possibly think that. With YOU, on the other hand...

:rofl:

I thought you were just going to alert, anyway?

[DesertFlower]

22. i agree. McCain

is using it and we know how stupid some people are. just like the woman who still believes obama is an arab even after mccain told her he wasn't.

[NewJeffCT]

23. When can we start firing back with charges of "fascism"?

It's certainly more apt in their case than socialism is for Obama.

[MarthaMyDear]

26. Tired of all these negative "concern" threads....give it a rest!

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. Colin Powell will save everything for you once again tomorrow

He will rock you to sleep once again and be the first black president like you said
this year.

Give it a rest.

[Essene]

71. i said powell's endorsement deserves our respect, as does powell. i stand by that.

hold a grudge if you must... that's your decision.

[Ichingcarpenter]

74. Actually you said in OP that he was the only person that could be the 1st black president

When have you ever been right?

[Essene]

87. No.

i said powell could have been the 1st black president if he had wanted.

i stand by that.

and when he embraced obama, im going to be thrilled.

if he doesnt... i will HATE HIM lol

[FrenchieCat]

33. I'm hiding this dumbass thread......

and thank you for nothing!

[RichGirl]

35. First of all....

The whole republican idea of "trickle down" IS "spreading the wealth". The problem is that the wealthy were too greedy to let their huge profits trickle down, so they kept them for themselves.

Do you really think that Americans who are struggling to pay their bills, possibly jobless, etc...are thinking: "Oh NO, we can't have a 'share the wealth' policy. We need the wealth to stay at the top where it belongs!" I think most people think it's about time some of that money that they, the middle class, works so hard for should start coming to them instead of pay raises and bonuses for the top.

Wingnuts have been trained to think that "liberalism" and "socialism" are dirty words so that those at the top can freely and with their permission rob them blind. They don't know that these are the systems that would actually help them to get what they deserve and work for and have a better life.

[Essene]

42. You make a great point. It's a "trickle down" vs a fair approach to growth of the economy

i just want to see obama pick this up and chop mccain at the knees before he can run any farhter with it.

i think obama let mccain juice it too much in the first 3rd of teh debate, and in spite of the "joe" fiasco, i think the race will tighten a little bit next week... and obama cant let him gain any ground on economics.

none.

i hope he takes the approach underlying your post. i bet he will.

:)

[RichGirl]

55. Actually....

He has already said many times that "trickle down" doesn't work and that you have to build the economy from the bottom up. If you make sure the middle class is doing well, they will spend money which helps the top. A much better approach. He also has said that you can tell if an economy is good by how well the middle class is doing, not by how well Wall st. is doing. It's an approach that is for the people and fairness for all.

Jim Webb said in many of his speeches when he was running for senate that just 20 years ago a CEO made 40 times more than the lowest worker. Now, they make 400 times more! The wealthy, like McCain, act like it's so unfair that they have to pay most of the taxes yet no one ever seems to mention how unfair the pay grade is.

[Essene]

yes. i think obama is a step ahead... and i hope there's a high profile counter attack this week

[RichGirl]

36. dupe

[carnie_sf]

38. I for one

think a little socialism would be a good thing.

[bunkerbuster1]

41. ok, is this just more meta than I'm grokking now?

Is this pretend-concern trolling or real concern trolling?

If the latter, I'd just ignore it.

If the former, I'm chuckling.

Anyway, I think a lot of Americans are about ready for some "socialism", if by "socialism" you mean having fuckin' grown-ups minding the store and imposing some consequences for bad market behavior now and again.

[Essene]

45. Obama said not to get complacent. Mccain's pulling out his "economic" message...

and im saying it oughta be taken seriously... and defeated.

I dont think it can be defeated with civil, reasonable discourse about government and economics, either.

[Forkboy]

47. "This charge has legs, folks."

[DefenseLawyer]

50. Round up the usual suspects. n/t

[endthewar]

51. Waiting for your thread about Palin's "pro-America" comment

:eyes:

[Essene]

54. you may want to look at all my threads... and ask who's documented her BS the most

start with the "sarah palin factsheet" threads.

spare me... the rolling eyes...

[endthewar]

60. Thanks :-)

:rofl:

[Essene]

66. um, yea, you're welcome. =D

[endthewar]

73. Just kidding with you.

:hug:

[Essene]

91. i am concerned

[AntiFascist]

56. When capitalism fails...

you usually end up with something leaning toward fascism or Marxism, which would you rather have?

Trickle-down economics of the Reagan era has ultimately failed. Obama wants to put people back to work, McCain wants to enter into endless war and get young people drafted.

[Phx_Dem]

58. Oh puhleeeze. Republicans have been calling Democrats

socialists and commies since the beginning of time. It's not like we didn't see it coming. I'm just surprised it took them so long.

It's just more of the same from the tired old McSame bunch.


:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:

[endthewar]

61. Plus comrade Bush has nationalized more assets than Hugo Chavez

:rofl:

[Essene]

65. not to mention Palin's disgraceful Alaska... including a state-run dairy industry

[endthewar]

81. "state-run dairy industry"?

First I've heard of it. Link please. Thanks. :hi:

*sorry about earlier. :patriot:

[Essene]

89. seriously... i kid you not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7439648&mesg_id=7439648

i think i put it in there.

i need to put out a new version, now that i think about it

[Essene]

69. Did Bush 1, Dole or Bush 2 really directly call their opponent a socialist? I dont remember that...

I honestly dont.

I'm not talking about the radio jocks and political operatives. I'm talking about the formal campaign's main message itself being "he's a socialist." I don't remember it ever raising to that before.

Perhaps my memory is off...

[endthewar]

75. I remember Bush 1 went after Clinton pretty hard

Don't think that he called him a socialist, but definitely implied it. Especially with his line of attack about visiting the Soviet Union.

[azurnoir]

59. The "socialism" charge may have worked in the early '90's

when Hilary wanted nationalized health insurance BUT that was then and this is now-look what happened to health care costs since then and how many uninsured there are. When it comes to the phrase "spread the wealth." I think a lot of Americans agree after years of seeing their wages stagnate while their bosses got increasingly bigger and more extravagant salaries and bonuses amd socialism the federal government is buying into banks if that is not socialism what is?

[Essene]

64. right. Fairness & a more healthy economy... and im saying Obama needs the final NAIL on this

It has to be big.

It cant be another speech on this stuff. There are no more debates.

He needs some endorsement or something to chop Mccain at the knees on this economics stuff, as a final blow.

[chitty]

70. You're right!

Look at the effect it's having.

[Ichingcarpenter]

77. That's awful!! Is that McCain energizing his base?

I heard he had only 7,000 at his rally but that looks like 150,000

I'm 'concerned' about this charge of socialism, what next? He's a democrat? He's black?

[endthewar]

97. There you go, creating some good Republican talking points.

:rofl:

[Beregond2]

76. Oh, please.

America has been a socialist country since the thirties, and everyone knows it. The only difference between our socialism and that of Europe is, we allow corporations to get most of the benefit. On top of that, when this whole bail-out was a Republican project, they are hardly in a position to exploit that meme.

[Pisces]

80. This concern is bullshit. People are voting now, too late for a new strategy from McFailen.

[Essene]

92. hope you are right. I'd like to see Obama drop kick him in the face on this tho...

and by drop kick, i mean get the endorsement from like wall street journal, the economist, and a bunch of big businessman names.

[mdmc]

83. Perhaps you should work to GOTV for Nader / McKinney

Then you could say things like, "McCain and Obama are more of the same. We need real SOCIALISM!"

[No Elephants]

90. The phrase was unfortunate--and Obama will recover. Election stealing is my only concern.

[Essene]

94. I think election stealing is the primary concern we oughta have, yes

However...

I dont remember another presidential candidate calling the other one a literal SOCIALIST before.

Likewise, since

1) Mccain has absolutely no real economic message...

2) Americans generally hate the bail out

3) The Economy is fueling Obama's support among independents and moderates

4) Mccain is now suddenly focusing on this "socialism" argument...


I think Obama needs to quickly knock Mccain back on this.

[DefenseLawyer]

96. Does anyone know Obama's stand on fluoridation?

I'm concerned McCain will play the Precious Bodily Fluids card and we will be screwn!

[dansolo]

98. The reason that people have the proble with "spreading the wealth"

The problem isn't with socialism. The problem is that these people are made to believe that their middle class "wealth" will be spread to the poor, as opposed to the rich wealth being spread to the middle class. The way to get around this is to point out what they have lost as a result of the tax breaks going to the wealthy. The only "trickle down" that has occurred is the trickle down of the tax burden from the federal government to the states and local governments, leading to higher sales taxes, property taxes, fees, and lower services. I don't know why that isn't pointed out more to people.