Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Rattling the Snakes

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 07:34 AM
Original message
Rattling the Snakes
"In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."
--Colin Powell; official response to Tom Glen’s description of the My Lai Massacre

There have been a number of interesting discussions on DU in the past 24 hours, regarding the unconfirmed rumor that retired General Colin Powell is preparing to endorse Senator Barack Obama this weekend. Powell is, of course, an unpopular figure among progressive and liberal Democrats, and for very good reason. More, DUers are prone to view Powell as less trustworthy than a rattle snake – again, for very good reason.

Let’s take a minute to review some of General Powell’s rattle snake nature. We know from Corn & Isikoff’s book "Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War" that Powell and his best friend, Dick Armitage, were assisting Joseph Biden efforts to have the Congress create an "alternative" to the Bush-Cheney push for a US military invasion of Iraq. Biden, along with republicans Richard Lugar and Chuck Hagel, had introduced a measure to force the administration to do two things: prove that Iraq posed an "grave" threat to the US, and get UN backing for any military invasion. (See page 127.)

Other sources, including the second of Bob Woodward’s series of books on the Bush administration, document that Powell was focused on getting the UN involved in the discussion of what the US and world community should consider as options for dealing with Iraq. On the surface, this may seem to indicate that Powell was taking a moderate role, attempting to counter the Office of the Vice President’s push to war. But moderation was not needed at the time. Colin Powell was in a position to tell the American public the truth. Instead, he sought to have other people – Biden, Lugar, Hagel, and those at the UN – do what was his legal and moral responsibility.

More, when it came time for a US official to make the case for war to the UN, the OVP put Powell in check. There had been a debate on who could best make the administration’s case, in the days following the President’s infamous "16 words" in his State of the Union address. The OVP pushed for Powell to do its dirty work. Why? Because it put Powell in a position where he had but two choices: to tell the truth, or to become invested in the lies.

We know that Powell spent long hours on the weekend before his address at the Central Intelligence Agency’s headquarters. The first day, he was provided with documentation that indicated the administration was ignoring the intelligence that showed there was no "grave" danger to the US. Then, on Sunday, he had Armitage accompany him for further study.

This was the same Colin Powell who had, two years earlier, said that US sanctions had prevented Iraq from developing WMD. And he knew that the intelligence community had nothing that supported the administration’s claims. But the OVP was correct in pegging Powell as a moral coward, who would peddle the administration’s lies to the UN and the world community. (Likewise, Armitage failed to ever honestly address his role in the later Plame scandal, which, by no coincidence, included his meetings with Woodward. Liars, all.)

As a boy, I was taught the following story about "rattle snakes." Of course, it is not about actual snakes, but rather is a Native American insight on human nature. An Indian teen-ager was on the top of a mountain, where it was very cold. He came upon a rattle snake, which was shivering. The snake asked the boy to put him inside the warmth of his coat, and carry him to the warm valley below.

The boy said, "But you are dangerous." The snake said, "I promise that I won’t hurt you. In fact, if you bring me to the valley, I will give you a valuable reward." So the boy carried the snake down to the valley, and then asked for his reward. The snake, of course, bit him.

As the boy laid shivering on the ground, dying, he said to the snake, "But you promised." The snake replied, "Of course I did. That’s my nature."

Many cultures throughout human history have used the symbols of the mountain of humanity, and of snakes, to teach valuable lessons on human nature. Thus, as Obama is approaching a mountain top, we are naturally weary of the possibility of not just Powell’s endorsing him, but that Obama might be tricked into putting the shivering snake "in his coat." Let’s look closer at what is happening this weekend.

To fully appreciate what is actually happening, we need to go beyond what will ever be reported in the corporate media. The republican party recognizes that Barack Obama is about to be elected President. There are divisions within their party as to how to respond to this potential loss of power in the upcoming couple of weeks before the election. The most important thing for our attention is the faction of republicans who have controlled the OVP. This has been the den of neoconservative snakes during the Bush2 years. The OVP, for example, ran the fake intelligence operations that "proved" that Iraq posed a grave threat to our national security. They are unwilling to give up that seat of power, without a nasty fight.

Colin Powell carries a chip on his shoulder, blaming the neoconservatives from the OVP snake den for his moral cowardice. As Sidney Blumenthal reported, in a 2004 discussion with Great Britain’s Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, Powell called them "fucking crazies." ("Colin and the crazies"; 11-18-04; Guardian Unlimited). In April, 2005, Blumenthal reported on Powell’s quiet campaign in opposition to John Bolton being appointed as UN Ambassador. (Guardian)

The corporate media has failed to report on the role that John Bolton plays within the McCain campaign. He was among those who promoted the idea of selecting Sarah Palin as the VP on the republican ticket. The neoconservatives recognized that Palin, if elected, would allow them to keep control of the OVP den of snakes.

Others in the McCain campaign had pushed for him to choose Powell for VP. This was the cause for some ugly in-fighting within their party. DUers will remember Bolton’s co-neoconservative William Kristol using the OVP’s Fox Network to "report" that Powell was, in fact, prepared to endorse Obama. Kristol went so far as to predict that Powell would be a featured speaker at the Democratic National Convention.

Spreading outrageous lies in hardly a new tactic for neoconservative snakes. It’s all they have. And it is known that, in the next two weeks, they plan a series of snake attacks on the democratic ticket. These will be along the lines of the infamous 1988 Willie Horton ads. While the corporate media reports that McCain is opposed to using Rev. Wright, the truth is that he lacks the juice to stop what is beginning to happen. There is little respect for McCain within any faction of republicans today. The Palin wing is thus going to use not only Rev. Wright, but is actually prepared to use the image of Louis Farrakhan to try to scare the public, especially "undecided" voters, and those who are not solid in their commitment to either candidate.

Powell’s endorsement is aimed at two groups, as well. These include "undecided" voters, many of whom have expressed concerns about if Obama is qualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief; and moderate republicans, who are tempted to vote for Obama, because they find the McCain-Palin ticket to be repulsive.

More, there is a belief that Powell’s support now could be important when Obama takes office, and attempts to work with Congress to end the US war of occupation in Iraq. The neoconservative attempt to portray Obama’s plans as a form of surrender, and to create questions about his patriotism – for who could trust Rev. Wright and Louis Farrakhan to represent our nation’s best interests? -- can create problems. Powell’s endorsement, on the other hand, can provide republican officials with the cover they need to work with President Obama.

Still, progressive and liberal democrats have cause for concern. We do not want neoconservatives maintaining power within the OVP; nor do we want the Colin Powell-types to maintain power within the Office of the President in the Obama administration.

Therefore, while the Powell endorsement has potential value right now, and we should use it to our full advantage, we want to be sure that Barack Obama doesn’t put that shivering snake inside his coat.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well stated as usual
In 2000, I can remember feeling somewhat hopeful that this Bush admin would maybe not be as bad as I feared because he brought Colin Powell in. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

He is a tragic figure to be sure. So much promise and so many wasted opportunities to do the right thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Powell will attempt
to hedge his support of Obama in a manner that still endorses republican candidates for Congress. He will, in the next week, parrot the republican talking point that it is important for the country to have "balance," meaning that one party should not have control of both the executive and legislative branches of the federal government.

If Colin Powell had the character that is implied in the phrase "have the courage of your convictions," he could have prevented the horrors of the war in Iraq. He was a failure, who betrayed this country -- as well as the people of Iraq and the entire world community.

The Bush administration picked him, because of his reputation, and because of his lack of character. It is possible that by placing the snake in their own coat, it is going to be them who are bit as they are returned to the valleys.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Valleys = Leavenworth?
May it be so. Senator Obama may already anticipate this move and have a counter to already. I am very impressed at his ability to side-step the stuff they've thrown at him to date. And if he somehow misses it, I am sure Joe Biden will remind him about the wonders of working with Powell.

I wonder if Powell or any of them are haunted by the 100s of thousands of lives lost by their actions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. That's how I read it from the beginning
When He was past over in 2004 he still did not speak out and help
put an end to this war.

He's a snake and many ignore his continuing lack of character over the years
Start with My Lai then follow his career.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Right.
Those of us who have been aware of him for decades know that he lacks character.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Well, they made this bed.
They wore Colin Powell like a sandwich board, hid behind him, pushed him out there to do their dirty work and exploited his name and reputation (such as it was). They created "this" Colin Powell. He's one of the beds they made. Now they don't like having to lie down on it.

For myself, I think he's damaged goods, even though I'm glad to see this endorsement. It doesn't impress me (since Powell's currency with me dropped down into the underworld a long time ago - 2003 at the UN absolutely buried it). But it WILL impress some others, including those waverers who still haven't made up their minds (which just COMPLETELY escapes me). It might be just the nudge that some people will need to tip over into our side. In THAT way, this is extremely valuable.

GREAT assessment as usual, H2O Man. I always enjoy your posts!

:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
5. interesting to know that John Bolton was involved in picking Palin
thought as much!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Odd how the
corporate media ignores his role.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. k
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. I want the Neocons expelled from OVP and everywhere else
too. What are the odds?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Two things:
First, it can take time to expel turds from the bureaucratic bowels of government.

Second, the actual number of neoconservatives is not that great; without control of the OVP, it is possible to flush them out.

They were, in the pre-Cheney days, most dangerous in their roles in the intelligence community. Since then, they have been largely discredited in that community. So, while it may be somewhat difficult to get rid of all of them, it can and must be done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Thanks for the hope. I think there can't be that many of them
now, surely we out number them? I am glad to hear you say that they must all be, um, flushed out. It is, after all, the good and proper thing to do with turds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. You are a fountain of knowledge, H2O Man.
I am thankful for 'knowing' you here on DU. :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Thanks!
I appreciate that. And, I must admit that from time to time, I think I have a few interesting nuggets of information to share with the DU community. So I do appreciate that people like you take the time to read what I post here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. you think they'll do Obama = Farrakhan smear?

thats really inflammatory and the public seems less receptive to these tactics than previously.

as always, great writing- I learned things about snakes and Vice Presidents!



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I know it has
been prepared. I think it is very likely that they will. In part, they want to flame the passions of their base, in order to get their vote out. If Obama & Biden win, and there is a significant shift in Congress, then the neoconservatives are going to be left out of power.

The amount of in-fighting that the republican leadership is presently experiencing is not being reported by the corporate media. Surprising, I know. If it were happening in the democratic party, it would be front page news, and reported every 6 minutes on the network and cable news. We need look no further than the puma nonsense to verify this. But when it is the necroconservatives from Cheney's world, it is hush-hush.

Anyhow, I am under the impression that the republican right will enter the gutter at an ugly level by mid-week.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Powell's endorsement would be like a Christmas fruitcake.
Everyone would acknowledge that it's a gift, and a weighty one at that, but one he might not be in a hurry to unwrap and actually introduce into his body.

K&R.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Christmas Fruit cake is right.......... Besides Obama likes



PIE

Powell is a fruitcake that we all get as gift for christmas and either
end up throwing it away or giving it to someone else
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Everyone likes pie.
Everybody wants a piece of the pie.


Powell is the re-gifted fruitcake. "Here's my integrity; I didn't even unwrap it last administration."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. True.
I think there are a lot of republicans, who are looking at Obama and Biden, and thinking about how they can get a piece of the pie/power. That is one of the biggest reasons that the grassroots progressive/liberal community has to be fully prepared to step up our activities once Obama and Biden take office.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Valuable information in this post.
Thank you so much. I don't think I can fully follow it all. One thing that I feel strongly is that Obama has a keen sense of where he wants to go, and what works and what doesn't.

I find it quite distressing that so much energy is wasted playing games. But that is how this war works. Because this is war. Just without the guns.

They have so much to lose. This is what scares me the most. I fear they'll stop at nothing. Please let this unfold well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. When I was young,
one of my favorite stories to read was "The Most Dangerous Game." I haven't read fiction in decades, but I do believe that title defines what is being played out on the national stage right now, in real life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. We are Rainsford.
This time. The chase is coming to an end. Am I being too presumptuous.

I found the story online. I had to. Early on it was obvious what was going to happen. But I didn't think it would turn out with a reversal. If hunting were selling out to corporate interests, I suppose the story might be a similar parallel to what we have been seeing in politics. I doubt he ever hunted again. Hopefully Obama will sleep in the White House master bedroom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
24. I can only think of 1 reason why most Americans might so much as *conjecture*...
that Obama would appoint Powell to a position. It's the reason that is to be expected of most Americans.

Can somebody give me a 2nd reason why one might reasonably even *conjecture* such an occurrence?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
26. Good Morning!
I hope that this morning's news, combined with this thread, is of continued interest. General Powell has had a few interesting things to say about the Palin-necroconservative "style" of campaigning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. And so it is done. I haven't read the details about the
endorsement. Have you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this endorsement.
Edited on Sun Oct-19-08 11:54 AM by Gregorian
I thought of your thread when seeing Powell's statement. I can only think there is an underlying reason beside the obvious. Without having the in depth knowledge that someone who has studied this group carefully would have, I can only blindly guess what could be lurking under the surface. If there really is something else to it.


Maybe I'm naive. I know I am in some ways. But I think this is a genuine endorsement. I don't sense bs. I sense a real human being coming through. His animated body language. He sentiment toward human frailty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC