So let me get this straight.

[Drunken Irishman]

20 years ago, a younger John McCain contacted Joe Wurzelbacher and asked him to move into this Ohio neighborhood on the off chance Barack Obama, who wasn't even involved in politics, would be there years down the road campaigning for the presidency?

Or is it this...

This Wurzelbacher fellow was at home playing football when heard Obama was in the neighborhood. He quickly ran into the house, contacted the McCain camp and got his marching orders, right? Or did McCain fly him into the area when they heard Obama was in the neighborhood, just to ask this question and set up the final debate moment?

Yeesh. Some of you guys sound like Freepers with all the Obama conspiracies.

[faithfulcitizen]

1. yeah, I mean like who plants questioners these days anyway? That's like soooo Hillary 2008.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. lulz

[Drunken Irishman]

3. Hey, if it were a townhall or a rally, I could agree with the feeling he was a plant.

But this is stretching it. No one knew Obama would be campaigning in THAT Ohio neighborhood and somehow McCain finds out, gets its plant read and out there? Even though the plant lives in the neighborhood Obama was campaigning in?

[faithfulcitizen]

5. ut oh, sorry, didn't realize it was while he was canvassing. So, Obama knocked on his door?

hmmm, still, I think Hillary had something to do with it. (just kidding) :)

[Drunken Irishman]

7. Obama was going door-to-door in an Ohio neighborhood.

When this guy was out playing football and heard Obama was in the neighborhood, so he went over and met him and asked the question.

That's it.

[Myrina]

4. .. or maybe Joe is just a GOP asshat who happened onto the Obama

... visit, 'dropped in', then called his local Gee-Oh-Pee contact/friend/relative and said "... so whatta I oughta do with this?"


:shrug:

[Drunken Irishman]

9. Ha, ok!

I don't know if he'd even have time to do that.

[PermanentRevolution]

6. I'm with you, Irish...

If it had been a pre-announced event, like a town-hall, I could see it. But as it is, it was a coincidence that McCain saw as an opportunity to exploit and paint Obama as out of touch with the common "Average Joe Plumber."

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

8. I'm with you on this, D. I.

However, any notion that this guy was uncommitted or unprejudiced in any sense was way off base. He's got the Rove/Limbaugh ideology down pat.

[Drunken Irishman]

11. I don't disagree with that.

He's a total Repub and shouldn't be portrayed as anything but.

[IsItJustMe]

10. LOL You are absolutely right. The Republicans are so beyond a set up job.

:sarcasm:

Do you not find it interesting that this guy is all over the news now spouting off about how Obama's tax plan is socialistic? I believe in coincidences, but damn.

[Drunken Irishman]

12. haha, ok, you got me.

The Republicans can tell the future.

They're just THAT good.

[islandmkl]

13. heavy-duty tinfoil hat explanation:

the repubs have these guys planted in neighborhoods everywhere (rw propaganda radio helps keep them informed)...

OR...

they follow Barack with a team (kind of 'mission impossible'-style) and jump out of the black van(s) a block ahead of Barack's entourage in every direction so that Barack is almost 100% guaranteed-sure to encounter one of them...

it (whichever it it is) is SO APPARENT...

[Beetwasher]

15. See My Post #14, Not Heavy Tin Foil

Your close to the mark of how it can be done and it's not all that difficult or farfetched.

[Beetwasher]

14. Not Difficult To Coordinate At All

And there are numerous ways to do it. They had a general framework set up of what they wanted to accomplish, they wanted a small business owner to confront Obama and then bring it up at the debate so they can connect w/ "Joe Sixpack". So they identify numerous supporters/lackey's/shills/small business owners who's name happens to be "Joe" or who they can call "Joe" (this guys name is actually Sam, his middle name is Joe) around Ohio and when Obama was in the area, they set them into motion. Perhaps they even had a heads up as to where O was going to be, most campaigns have this information on their opponents some time in advance.

If Obama was in different area, it would have been Joe the electrician (or whatever) who was nearby and would have confronted him.

It could work in several different ways. The shill hears O is in the area and contacts Mc's campain OR they have predetermined instructions on what to do if O is in the area OR McC's campaign finds out O is in there area and contacts them and puts them into action.

I'm not saying this is definitely the case of what happened, it certainly could have been spontaneous and McC's campaign just recognized an opportunity to exploit, but it's not hard to coordinate, especially w/ the resources of a national Presidential campaign. If I could figure out how to coordinate it, then the "pros" in McC's campaign can too.

Magicians do stuff like this all the time, it just takes a little bit of preparation and coordination.

[Drunken Irishman]

16. And yet, they're still losing the election!

You people give the Republican Party way too much credit.

[Beetwasher]

17. Uhh, What Does That Have To Do W/ What I Wrote?

Of course they're losing, but that doesn't mean they can't pull something like this off (or attempt to). Again, I'm not saying they DID this, but it's NOT hard or farfetched either. They knew they needed SOMETHING, SOME kind of stunt to make a splash, and VOILA! They pull this out and the MSM is all over it and Joe is ready to go on every news show etc. To think there was no coordination between this guy and the McCain campaign is pretty naive.

You posited it was a far fetched conspiracy theory. I merely showed how it can be done relatively easily w/ the resources a national campaign has access to.

Now, obviously they didn't vet this guy very well, but that's just par for the course for the McIdiots.

[Drunken Irishman]

18. Because it would require having all these little plants throughout the area.

Based on the off chance Obama stopped by THAT neighborhood.

[Beetwasher]

19. So? They Have A HUGE Database Of Supporters All Over The Country

And the KNEW O would be in Ohio and that he'd been doing this door to door stuff. Not an off chance at all.

What makes you so sure Joe lived in the exact neighborhood O was in and didn't just live in the general area? Do you have that info?

It can be done and it's not far fetched.

[onenote]

20. so they have this great organization

but they don't know that they guy actually earned $40K, that he has a tax lien against him, etc etc etc.

No, they just thought they got lucky. In stead, we got lucky.

[Beetwasher]

21. Two Words: Sarah Palin

No one said they were competent. McC used him in the debate and they STILL didn't know all that information. What's your point? You would think even IF he WASN'T a plant they would have vetted him. They didn't. You're surprised?

Do you think McC DOESN'T have a huge organization? Of course he does, but they are obviously incompetent and desperate. No one said the were great. Doing something like what I suggested COULD have been done, is NOT hard OR far fetched. It's perfectly plausible.

[onenote]

22. it would take a level of competence far beyond anything in evidence

To have a network of literally hundreds of thousands of middle-class "plants" just waiting for a call. And to be sure you had someone who lived within a block of anywhere Obama might turn up, you'd need hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

And yet, no one has ever peeped a word about being recruited for this massive army of plants.

Maybe because it doesn't exist.

[Beetwasher]

23. Hundreds Of Thousands??? According To YOU

Why the fuck would they need hundreds of thousands?

Joe lived within a BLOCK of where Obama was? Prove it.

What's his address?

They would need to have shills in general areas around Ohio where they suspect Obama will probably show up, he's done this before. They would have a good idea beforehand where Obama was going to be and possibly even a few hours to get someone there. Each campaign knows exactly where the other candidate is at pretty much all times.

Not hard, not matter how much hyperbolic shit you spout out of your ass.

I say it's possible to accomplish w/ a bit of organization, foresight and pre-planning and maybe a bit of luck. And the fact is, the WERE incompetent. They didn't vet this idiot. Did they definitelt do it? I dunno, but it's possible. You spout hyperbolic bullshit that has no basis in reality.

[Drunken Irishman]

29. Don't you think if the guy didn't live in the area, it would have come out.

He said on national television he lived a street over.

He's registered to vote in that area.

C'mon, if the Republicans were this good, they would not be losing!

[Beetwasher]

31. "He said on national television he lived a street over. "

He also claims he's a plumber, he isn't. His name isn't Joe. He's not going to pay more taxes. He's not independent or undecided. Need I continue?

He probably does live in the area. So what? It's NOT difficult and does NOT take any supreme level of competence to set something like this up, that's all I'm saying. As a matter of fact, becuase they DIDN'T vet him, and they are POUNDING his story, it shows just how incompetent they ARE. Did they set it up? I dunno, but it ain't that hard.

What else will come out about him? We'll see.

[onenote]

35. he's listed as being on the same street that obama was visiting

Shrewsbury Street.

[Beetwasher]

42. Uhh, So?

My god it's a miracle there was a McCain supporter on that block! :rofl:

[Drunken Irishman]

43. There is a difference between being a McCain supporter and a plant.

You're saying he was a plant, put there by the McCain campaign to make this an issue.

I do not agree.

[Beetwasher]

44. No, I'm Saying It's POSSIBLE And Not As Difficult As Some Make It Seem

There is a difference.

I know you don't agree, and that's cool, but it is NOT so difficult tdo accomplish as some are positing. Re-read all my posts, I have never argued differently. I'm merely pointing out it is NOT so far fetched. I don't BELIEVE that it is true, merely that it IS possible and not a whacky conspiracy theory. Campaigns use plants and pull stunts like this as a matter of course and the McCain campaign is certainly desperate to change the subject and MAKE something happen.

[Drunken Irishman]

45. I think it would take a lot to get it to work.

I don't think he called anyone up or had any talking points prior to Obama stopping by. He probably was outside playing football, wandered over and decided to ask the question.

[Beetwasher]

46. You May In Fact Be Correct

I dunno, but it is NOT far fetched to think that there WAS some coordination w/ the McC campaign, ESPECIALLY given the phenomenon they have created out of him.

And really, it would NOT take a lot more than a couple of phone calls to make it work. Either "Joe" calling McC's campaign when he heard O was in the neighborhood or McC's campaign wanting to do something like this and when they find out where O is, finding a supporter who is nearby and game and contacting him and supplying him w/ talking points. Either way, it's a couple of phone calls and talking points. That's it. Not much.

[onenote]

32. No. According to the facts, which you are painfully lacking

You can say I'm the one spouting hyperbolic shit out of my ass, but you're one with soiled pants.

As this story indicates, Obama was strolling down the 300 Block of Shrewsbury Street.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/obamaroadblog/gGgF3W


Guess what street Mr. Joe the Plumber is listed in public records as living on ...OMG...Shrewsbury Street. Guess what block? 300 (355 to be exact).
http://www.whitepages.com/search/FindPerson?extra_listing=mixed&form_mode=opt_b&post_back=1&firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=&name=Wurzelbacher+&street=&city_zip=holland&state_id=OH&localtime=survey

Maybe instead of trying for a loan, the RNC should've bought a lottery ticket if they are so lucky as to have picked some un-plumber plumber to be ready just in case Obama showed up on his street, of all streets, in Ohio.


“Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine.”

Tinfoil poisoning is such a terrible disease. Hopefully a cure can be found some day.

[Beetwasher]

33. LOL! Learn How To Read

As I've said all along, I have no idea if he was a plant or not, but it's not as hard to do as some are making it out to be.

From my original post:

"I'm not saying this is definitely the case of what happened, it certainly could have been spontaneous and McC's campaign just recognized an opportunity to exploit, but it's not hard to coordinate, especially w/ the resources of a national Presidential campaign."

My 2nd post:

"Again, I'm not saying they DID this, but it's NOT hard or farfetched either. "

And on and on. I never said they did do this, just that it's possible and it ain't that difficult. McC's campaing probably knew within minutes exactly where Obama was and minutes later could have contacted a supporter nearby (Even *gasp* ON the same block!). You know, they have these things called cell phones and computers that make things like his possible. And it IS possible.

You need to learn some reading comprehension.

Also from my original post:

"It could work in several different ways. The shill hears O is in the area and contacts Mc's campain OR they have predetermined instructions on what to do if O is in the area OR McC's campaign finds out O is in there area and contacts them and puts them into action.

Not hard, not farfetched at all.

[onenote]

34. extremely farfetched, winning the lottery would be a better bet

[Beetwasher]

39. Yeah, Because It's So Hard To Find A McCain Supporter In Ohio

Hyperbole much? :rofl:

I know, some people are fooled by magicians and think it's really magic! I call them stupid. You're they type of person that thinks David Copperfield really made the statue Liberty disappear and that psychics really speak to the dead. In other words, pathetic.

[onenote]

48. there is a difference between a mccain supporter and a plant

I have no doubt he's a mccain supporter. I also have no doubt that he wasn't part of a nationwide sleeper cell of McCain supporters waiting for Obama to pop up on their streets so they could ambush him with a question that, in the long run, makes the questioner look like a fool

[Beetwasher]

50. Oh, Then I Guess McCain Is SUPER Competent And/Or SUPER Lucky

Because either they were able to know the future and KNEW Obama would be asked that question by someone and therefore prepared their entire debate performance around that assumption and prayed someone (preferably someone they could call "Joe") would confront O OR they prepped McCain and prepared the debate performance in TWO days after seeing JTP ask Obama that question. McC's whole debate centered around that idiot, and you're telling me that it just happened by chance and they were so competent and McC is so good that they could prepare him and write the whole debate script in two days?

Give me a fucking break.

It's not so far fetched that they prepared the debate performance in advance to be centered around someone confronting Obama, and then, with a little bit of coordination, made it happen. It's not like there's a dirth of wignuts in Ohio, and it's not like Obama's door to door action was so spontaneous that McC's campaign couldn't have enough time to identify a supporter nearby who could confront O. Apparently Shrewsbury St. is pretty big if JTP's house number is 355, so the odds of finding a McC supporter on the block from their computerized list of supporters ain't that extreme.

[Samurai_Writer]

38. Joe the plumber's address

That's his current driver's license information. He also got a speeding ticket in Alaska for going 74 in a 55, has no plumber's license in Ohio, and his voter registration lists him as Republican.

I have screen captures of those, too, if you want them.

I agree with you, though, they would not need hundreds of thousands of potential 'plants'. I'm sure this guy found out Obama was in his neighborhood, called up his local GOP chair, and got some pointers on 'gotcha' questions to ask Obama.

[Beetwasher]

41. "I'm sure this guy found out Obama was in his neighborhood, called up his local GOP chair"

Sure, that's possible. That's one of the scenarios I posted.

[iiibbb]

24. Yet they can't fill a phone bank...

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/on-road-marietta-ohio.html

[Beetwasher]

25. So, I Guess That Means That McC Has No Supporters At All

And no one working for him. :eyes:

[iiibbb]

26. Oh... he has supporters...

You contend that his organization is well enough organized to plant someone at a random event, but can't drum up enough people to fill a phone bank.


His support is based on

1) people voting on religion
2) people voting on relic conservatism (can't separate Republicans of today from the old conservative message).
3) people voting out of fear of "socialism"


The only people that are capable of organizing to any great degree are the religious groups...

[Beetwasher]

27. I Contend It's Possible, And It's Not As Difficult As Some Make It Out To Be

His campaign is incompetent for the most part, but getting a supporter to confront Obama while he's knocking on doors in a particular area is not difficult. Their incompetence is apparent in that this guy's story fell apart w/ just a bit of digging.

But giving a some supporters in particular areas a heads up that if O's in the area "do this and say such and such and we will make you a celebrity" is not hard.

[Marsala]

37. He wasn't even a small business owner

He was some blue-collar right wing nut who tried to catch Obama with a "gotcha" question about taxes and the American Dream. Fox News picked up on the conversation and then the completely desperate McCain campaign seized on him as their latest gimmick. No conspiracy required.

[justiceischeap]

28. What I think happened

McPalin camp saw the interview with JTP and then decided to do some research on JTP. Find's out that JTP may be a Repug. Talks to JTP prior to debate and asks that he shill for them. JTP says, "Cool!"

McPalin invokes JTP way too many times during the debate which makes people curious... the curious find out JTP is a total shill and was as vetted as Palin by the McAsshat camp. End of story.

[mscuedawg]

30. Maybe Joe the Plumber is McCain's love child...

[WeDidIt]

36. Occam's Razor, the REAL explanation

Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher is a dick who just couldn't pass up an opportunity to strut his shit in front of his neighbors by calling out Barack Obama.

Unfortunatley for the dick, he got his ass handed back to him and now his life is never going to be the same.

[JBoris]

40. One doesn't need to talk to the McC camp to get "marching orders". Fauxnews and

RW hate radio broadcast neocon talking points every day. The neocons conspire out in the open for everyone to see. I really don't understand what is so hard to believe about "Joe the Plumber" (actually "Sam the fraud") being a GOP tool.

[Uncle Joe]

47. There is such a thing as a self-plant, if I claimed to be independent,

but was strongly partisan in an attempt to mislead and disrupt.

Just like some Freepers come here as trolls and I imagine visa versa for that matter.

[iceman66]

49. No.

Just a Freeper who happened to be in the right place at the right time.